Cousins Trade Rumors

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YikesVikes
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by YikesVikes » Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:03 pm

Fat Stupid Loser wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:14 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:55 am


That shouldn't stop teams from reaching out. The Vikings, due to the nature of Cousin's contract, need teams to believe they are happy with Cousins and don't want to trade him to drive up his trade value. The minute they mention they are willing to trade him his trade value plummets, because if the Vikings let the world know they want to move on from Cousins it changes the dynamic of their relationship with their QB completely. A QB who they cannot cut once they are 3 days into the new league year without eating 76 million in dead cap. Teams will take advantage of the rift even mentioning trading the QB created and a 3rd round pick might be the best we can get.

So even if the Vikings wanted to trade Cousins, they can't actually let anyone know they want to and just have to hope a team makes an offer.

If I were a GM desperate for a starting QB but am not drafting high enough to get one that way, like Indy, SF, or Chicago, I am reaching out to any team with a vet QB who may or may not be available via trade if I think that QB can be the difference maker.

No one is reaching out to the Vikings.
I get all that. Its logical. I'm just not so sure that is what is really going on. Don't think there is a lot of, "hey, we need a QB and you have a really good one in his prime, want to trade him to us" happening in the NFL very often. Because they know the answer they will get. "Ummmm….No, you serious?" "Or LOL sure, we will consider raping you. What do you have in mind?"
2017 Eagles say hi.
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by Fat Stupid Loser » Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:30 pm

CharVike wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:31 am
Fat Stupid Loser wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:28 pm


All depends on many variables. Two firsts, just cause they are two firsts, maybe not. Depends on their value this year. Next year's first's value is a guess. Do those picks allow me to move up high enough to get the can't miss QB? Is there even one in the draft this year. There is only one this year. And Jags aren't giving him up I don't care how many future firsts someone throws at them. Because these can't miss 15 year franchise guys are rare birds. Everyone else is just another QB. A very few of them become very good QBs, but as evidenced on this very board, those guys are never good enough. But yes, Rick should certainly entertain two firsts for Cousins. I believe odds strongly favor losing in that trade. But anything can happen. Find the Unicorn! Win for life. I'm off to 7-11 to buy a Powerball ticket. Tonight's the night I can feel it.
Your right the odds of losing in a 2 first round pick trade would be the betting favorite. 2 first will never allow you to move up to get the franchise QB. The Jags won't give up pick 1 for anything this year. They could trade it for the great Watson but won't. That can't miss QB always goes pick 1. Remember the old suck for luck deal. People make up stuff because they don't like Cousins. Some have posted no other team showed any interest in Cousins when he was a FA. That's far from the truth. Many teams wanted him. Others post he's not a very good QB. That's bull also. Others feel we are missing out on a bunch of great FAs because of his contract. IMO we need a dominate pass rusher. In the mold of LT or Reggie White. That type of player is hardly ever available in FA. If they are any team can find the money. Reggie White was available and pushed the Pack over the top. I don't see those type of players in FA every year. Dominate young HOF type players don't make it to FA. Our offense did very well last year and some want to break it up. Our team needs to improve our defense and by that I mean pass rushers and cover guys that get turnovers. Every QB goes backwards when there is big time pressure. Happens to Rodgers and I seen it happen to Brady. Make them move and it changes their game.
And the great Mahomes. You watched the SB I presume. Looked like ####.
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by Fat Stupid Loser » Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:43 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:03 pm
Fat Stupid Loser wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:14 am

I get all that. Its logical. I'm just not so sure that is what is really going on. Don't think there is a lot of, "hey, we need a QB and you have a really good one in his prime, want to trade him to us" happening in the NFL very often. Because they know the answer they will get. "Ummmm….No, you serious?" "Or LOL sure, we will consider raping you. What do you have in mind?"
2017 Eagles say hi.
Drawing a blank. What really good QB did the Eagles trade in 17? Foles? Not quite the level of QB I thought we were talking about.
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by YikesVikes » Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:26 pm

Fat Stupid Loser wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:43 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:03 pm


2017 Eagles say hi.
Drawing a blank. What really good QB did the Eagles trade in 17? Foles? Not quite the level of QB I thought we were talking about.
Sorry messed up the year. 2016
https://www.nfl.com/news/sam-bradford-t ... 0000694979
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:45 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:26 pm
Fat Stupid Loser wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:43 pm


Drawing a blank. What really good QB did the Eagles trade in 17? Foles? Not quite the level of QB I thought we were talking about.
Sorry messed up the year. 2016
https://www.nfl.com/news/sam-bradford-t ... 0000694979
Great point. The Eagles didn't really shop Bradford knowing that the minute they did his value would plummet. A desperate GM came calling despite that and they ended up making a trade.
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by S197 » Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:03 pm

Fat Stupid Loser wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:30 pm
CharVike wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:31 am

Your right the odds of losing in a 2 first round pick trade would be the betting favorite. 2 first will never allow you to move up to get the franchise QB. The Jags won't give up pick 1 for anything this year. They could trade it for the great Watson but won't. That can't miss QB always goes pick 1. Remember the old suck for luck deal. People make up stuff because they don't like Cousins. Some have posted no other team showed any interest in Cousins when he was a FA. That's far from the truth. Many teams wanted him. Others post he's not a very good QB. That's bull also. Others feel we are missing out on a bunch of great FAs because of his contract. IMO we need a dominate pass rusher. In the mold of LT or Reggie White. That type of player is hardly ever available in FA. If they are any team can find the money. Reggie White was available and pushed the Pack over the top. I don't see those type of players in FA every year. Dominate young HOF type players don't make it to FA. Our offense did very well last year and some want to break it up. Our team needs to improve our defense and by that I mean pass rushers and cover guys that get turnovers. Every QB goes backwards when there is big time pressure. Happens to Rodgers and I seen it happen to Brady. Make them move and it changes their game.
And the great Mahomes. You watched the SB I presume. Looked like ####.
That's a little harsh. He had two borderline amazing throws that were dropped in the end zone. And he was dealing with turf toe that is going to require surgery. Plus coming out of concussion protocol.
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:44 pm

Here’s a solid video breaking down the strengths and weaknesses of Kirk Cousins. Figured I might as well resign myself to the fact that he’s gonna be our QB for the next two years.

This is really good and worth the watch. Very fair.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/l ... ut_theres/
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by Raz » Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:33 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:44 pm
Here’s a solid video breaking down the strengths and weaknesses of Kirk Cousins. Figured I might as well resign myself to the fact that he’s gonna be our QB for the next two years.

This is really good and worth the watch. Very fair.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/l ... ut_theres/
We might as well resign to the fact that he will be here until he retires. I could see an extension that knocks down 2022 cap hit and pays him low 30’s for the next 5 years of course mostly guaranteed thanks to the idiot speilman for that new trend.

If we have 4 pro bowlers on the o line it should be mostly good.
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by Texas Vike » Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:59 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:44 pm
Here’s a solid video breaking down the strengths and weaknesses of Kirk Cousins. Figured I might as well resign myself to the fact that he’s gonna be our QB for the next two years.

This is really good and worth the watch. Very fair.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/l ... ut_theres/
"The worst formula you could have is a QB who doesn't throw with anticipation, and an offensive line that is terrible in the Interior"

Pretty measured take. I think he could have critiqued Cousins' pocket awareness, though I admit that that improved somewhat this season.
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:33 am

S197 wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:03 pm
Fat Stupid Loser wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:30 pm

And the great Mahomes. You watched the SB I presume. Looked like ####.
That's a little harsh. He had two borderline amazing throws that were dropped in the end zone. And he was dealing with turf toe that is going to require surgery. Plus coming out of concussion protocol.
Not to mention the distraction of their coaches kid, who was also an assistant coach being involved in a terrible accident that could see him going to jail.

We all remember how poorly the Vikings played when Griffen had his issues during the season in 2018. Distractions at that level of football can cause serious problems for a team that needs to be 100% focused to compete.
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by VikingLord » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:00 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:44 pm
Here’s a solid video breaking down the strengths and weaknesses of Kirk Cousins. Figured I might as well resign myself to the fact that he’s gonna be our QB for the next two years.

This is really good and worth the watch. Very fair.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/l ... ut_theres/
After watching that, do you still feel the Vikings can't get it done with Cousins and/or are going to benefit from some other QB?

The major criticism of Cousins in that analysis is that he doesn't anticipate throws. That isn't likely to change, so if that is the major problem with the QB, then yeah, the Vikings likely would benefit from finding a QB with better vision/anticipation.

But the guy doing the analysis notes that this trait isn't a major problem if the interior pass blocking is better. If Cousins gets better blocking and can set his base, he's going to do well.

Is it really so much to ask for the Vikings to address the interior OL play, especially when the inconsistency of that interior OL play affects the running game as well?

The two ways to "solve" the problem are:

1) Find a QB who can consistently scramble out of the pressure created by the porous blocking in front of him while hitting his receivers with often spectacular throws on the run and/or simply running it himself. Note that even with such a QB, if the interior OL blocking isn't improved, keep taking the hit to the effectiveness of your running game with your star running back who is also getting paid a big chunk of change.
2) Fix the interior OL. This maximizes what your QB is capable of doing in the passing game and also maximizes what your star RB is capable of doing in the running game.

The OL is the problem with the Vikings, specifically the interior OL. Cousins isn't perfect. Heck, Cook isn't perfect either. But both of them are severely impacted by the problems in the interior of the offensive line. 90% of the problems on offense come from that offensive interior. 5% probably come from the lack of cohesion in playcalling and guys knowing where to be on routes and other miscues. Maybe 5% falls on the negative traits of Cousins.

This is why it makes no sense to spend big to replace Cousins because it won't fix the primary problem. Add a guy like Watson to the Vikings and change nothing else and that's worth at most a single game improvement and maybe not even that. It certainly doesn't move them any closer to legitimate Superbowl contention.
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:51 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:00 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:44 pm
Here’s a solid video breaking down the strengths and weaknesses of Kirk Cousins. Figured I might as well resign myself to the fact that he’s gonna be our QB for the next two years.

This is really good and worth the watch. Very fair.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/l ... ut_theres/
After watching that, do you still feel the Vikings can't get it done with Cousins and/or are going to benefit from some other QB?

The major criticism of Cousins in that analysis is that he doesn't anticipate throws. That isn't likely to change, so if that is the major problem with the QB, then yeah, the Vikings likely would benefit from finding a QB with better vision/anticipation.

But the guy doing the analysis notes that this trait isn't a major problem if the interior pass blocking is better. If Cousins gets better blocking and can set his base, he's going to do well.

Is it really so much to ask for the Vikings to address the interior OL play, especially when the inconsistency of that interior OL play affects the running game as well?

The two ways to "solve" the problem are:

1) Find a QB who can consistently scramble out of the pressure created by the porous blocking in front of him while hitting his receivers with often spectacular throws on the run and/or simply running it himself. Note that even with such a QB, if the interior OL blocking isn't improved, keep taking the hit to the effectiveness of your running game with your star running back who is also getting paid a big chunk of change.
2) Fix the interior OL. This maximizes what your QB is capable of doing in the passing game and also maximizes what your star RB is capable of doing in the running game.

The OL is the problem with the Vikings, specifically the interior OL. Cousins isn't perfect. Heck, Cook isn't perfect either. But both of them are severely impacted by the problems in the interior of the offensive line. 90% of the problems on offense come from that offensive interior. 5% probably come from the lack of cohesion in playcalling and guys knowing where to be on routes and other miscues. Maybe 5% falls on the negative traits of Cousins.

This is why it makes no sense to spend big to replace Cousins because it won't fix the primary problem. Add a guy like Watson to the Vikings and change nothing else and that's worth at most a single game improvement and maybe not even that. It certainly doesn't move them any closer to legitimate Superbowl contention.
Hang on, VL. Be careful of assigning motives. I didn't post that video to bash Cousins.

Over and over, I have said that he's a good NFL quarterback. This video supports that point. This video also supports the idea that he's not a transcendent quarterback, and I agree ... a transcendent quarterback is what's necessary to overcome a bad O-line.

My issue isn't his play, although I wish he were more consistent and didn't have games where he looks like he should be selling used cars instead of playing NFL quarterback. My issue is his CONTRACT, which makes it very difficult to address the personnel issues that this video also addresses.

Cousins NEEDS a line that gives him time BECAUSE he has to "see the receiver open." Therefore, you (correctly) want to fix the interior OL. So do I.

But it brings us back to the important question. With Cousins earning $31 million and $45 million over the next two seasons, where is the cap space to fix the O-line going to come from? Have you seen the draft? Heavy on tackles, short on interior linemen. Very short. Free agency? I doubt we can make a play for even a 2nd-tier guard, let alone a stud like Joe Thuney.

If the Vikings had $10 million in cap space, they could go after Thuney aggressively. Instead, they're $10 million OVER the projected cap right now. We're talking about fixing the O-line, and we're probably going to have to let Rashod Hill walk because he's a good enough swing tackle to make more money elsewhere than the Vikings can pay him. That's the state of the Vikings financially ... they can't afford Rashod Hill.

And it all goes back to Cousins.

Here's what's going to happen. We're going to stand pat on the O-line because we don't have the money to fix it. At best, we'll conjure up some way to sign a guy like Nick Easton and declare him a huge upgrade over Dakota Dozier (which, unfortunately, he probably is). Zimmer wants an edge rusher in the draft, and he's going to get one because he's Zimmer, even though this is not a great class for edge rushers. D.J. Wonnum will start over the rookie because, well, Zimm doesn't trust rookies. The Vikings will find a way to keep Reiff, and they'll trot out either the same five guys on the line as last year, or Easton will replace Dozier. The defense will improve just enough to get the Vikings to 9 or 10 wins, enough to get into the expanded playoffs. Whether we go one-and-done or get to the divisional round really doesn't matter because we won't get any farther.

After the season, Mark Wilf, happy as a pig in sh!t from making the playoffs, will stick with the GM/coach status quo.

And the cycle will start all over again.

Who says I'm an optimist?
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by Fat Stupid Loser » Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:38 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:45 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:26 pm


Sorry messed up the year. 2016
https://www.nfl.com/news/sam-bradford-t ... 0000694979
Great point. The Eagles didn't really shop Bradford knowing that the minute they did his value would plummet. A desperate GM came calling despite that and they ended up making a trade.
I agree if a desperate, dumb GM comes calling and offers the world for Kirk, we should take it. But they won't. Because we will say no, unless the offer is just off the charts. Because it would have to be to improve the position. The Eagles traded Bradford for great picks because Bradford was on oft-injured, declining talent that couldn't really be relied on. Maybe you get a good season out of him. Probably not. He was a good QB, talented, but his track record not being able to play was extensive. So they got great picks and didn't really lose anything they weren't going to have to replace mid season anyway.
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by Fat Stupid Loser » Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:59 pm

S197 wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:03 pm
Fat Stupid Loser wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:30 pm

And the great Mahomes. You watched the SB I presume. Looked like ####.
That's a little harsh. He had two borderline amazing throws that were dropped in the end zone. And he was dealing with turf toe that is going to require surgery. Plus coming out of concussion protocol.
There were certainly reasons for him playing awful that game. But he was awful, looked awful. Looked lost, dear in the headlights, all that stuff. Looked like every other good QB who isn't getting protection and has his weapons taken away. He couldn't just dodge someone, sprint out to the side and throw a 60 yarder to his cheetah, wide open WR. Took that away from him and he was lost. Running backward and spinning around in the grasp, heaving blind balls into coverage. They took away what they do best and Reid and Mahomes couldn't adapt. Or didn't I should say. A bad game is a bad game. Wouldn't make more of it than that.
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by VikingLord » Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:41 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:51 pm
Hang on, VL. Be careful of assigning motives. I didn't post that video to bash Cousins.
Fair enough. I didn't intend to do that but in reading what I wrote I can understand how it came across that way. I appreciate you posting that analysis as I think it's a fair assessment of what Cousins does well and what he doesn't do well. There are also some solid observations on contributing factors that jibe with what you and others have said.
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:51 pm
Here's what's going to happen. We're going to stand pat on the O-line because we don't have the money to fix it. At best, we'll conjure up some way to sign a guy like Nick Easton and declare him a huge upgrade over Dakota Dozier (which, unfortunately, he probably is). Zimmer wants an edge rusher in the draft, and he's going to get one because he's Zimmer, even though this is not a great class for edge rushers. D.J. Wonnum will start over the rookie because, well, Zimm doesn't trust rookies. The Vikings will find a way to keep Reiff, and they'll trot out either the same five guys on the line as last year, or Easton will replace Dozier. The defense will improve just enough to get the Vikings to 9 or 10 wins, enough to get into the expanded playoffs. Whether we go one-and-done or get to the divisional round really doesn't matter because we won't get any farther.
Zimmer may want an edge rusher, but that doesn't mean an edge rusher is going to be best value in the draft and the way this draft is shaping up it looks like the Vikings can get some immediate help on their interior OL if they so choose without having to dip into FA or via trade.

One immediate starter prospect who could come it at LG is Rashawn Slater out of Northwestern. While a lot of mocks have him going earlier than #14, I think it's even money that he's still on the board when the Vikings pick comes up and he'd make a solid choice there. Here's a bio on him https://walterfootball.com/scoutingrepo ... Slater.php.

If Spielman wants to trade back in Round 1 and pick up an extra 2nd in the process (which IMHO is a particularly good idea this year given the lack of a Combine and a lot of guys sitting out the season last year), a guy like Wyatt Davis makes sense https://www.walterfootball.com/draft2021OG.php. He has work to do in pass protection, and one could argue pass protection is what the Vikings need if they draft a guard. While I understand that immediate need, Davis should be able to develop that skill sooner rather than later, and all things being equal, I'd rather have someone like Davis in there taking a few lumps early, but with the potential to rapidly improve, rather than someone like Dozier in there who struggles both run and pass blocking. Lastly, if Spielman wants to wait into Round 3 to take a swing at a guard, two guys on his list who should still be around when #78 comes up are Trey Smith out of Tennessee and Ben Cleveland out of Georgia. Both show solid fundamentals in both phases and can develop further. If the Vikes take either of those two along with someone like Slater in the 1st, they have positional flexibility with Reiff and Ezra Cleveland as well should they decide to part ways with Reiff and shift Ezra out to LT. Also, I think it would be pretty cool to have the "Cleveland Crew" playing on the same OL.

Not saying this is what Spielman "should" do per se - just what he has a good chance of being able to do that might provide some immediate help to the interior OL at reasonable cost.

Spielman can still look for edge rush help in the 3rd as well. There are some interesting prospects that should be available in the 3rd round that might be able to surprise to the upside fairly quickly. I'd also be OK with some of the interior DL options likely to be on the board in the 3rd.

I think this is a draft where, if the ball bounces his way, Spielman can pick up some talent that can address the immediate need areas of the team without having to break the bank on a pricey FA.
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