Cousins Trade Rumors

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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by S197 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:49 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:13 pm
So I still haven’t heard an answer to my question, so I’ll ask again.

The Carolina Panthers reportedly offered their first-round pick (No. 8 overall), a fifth-round pick, and Teddy Bridgewater to Detroit for Matthew Stafford, a quarterback who is, at best, on par with Kirk Cousins.

If the Panthers offered the same package to the Vikings, would you take it?

Some things to keep in mind.

— On March 19, Cousins’ 2022 salary of $35 million becomes fully guaranteed, meaning the Vikings would be on the hook for $76 million over the next two seasons ($31 million for 2021, plus $35 million salary and &10 million prorated bonus in 2022).

— Kirk’s camp has said that he is not interested in restructuring, which means the Vikings will pay the full ride unless they deal him before March 19.

— If the trade were made, the Vikings would suddenly own the 8th and 14th picks in this year’s draft.

— Teddy’s cap hit to the Vikings would be $17 million in 2021 and $20 million in 2022, just under half of Kirk’s.

So ... pretend Carolina is on the phone making this offer. Would you do it?
Absolutely. Which begs the question, if Cousins is so great, why weren't there any offers? It's because no one wants any part of that contract.
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:00 pm

S197 wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:49 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:13 pm
So I still haven’t heard an answer to my question, so I’ll ask again.

The Carolina Panthers reportedly offered their first-round pick (No. 8 overall), a fifth-round pick, and Teddy Bridgewater to Detroit for Matthew Stafford, a quarterback who is, at best, on par with Kirk Cousins.

If the Panthers offered the same package to the Vikings, would you take it?

Some things to keep in mind.

— On March 19, Cousins’ 2022 salary of $35 million becomes fully guaranteed, meaning the Vikings would be on the hook for $76 million over the next two seasons ($31 million for 2021, plus $35 million salary and &10 million prorated bonus in 2022).

— Kirk’s camp has said that he is not interested in restructuring, which means the Vikings will pay the full ride unless they deal him before March 19.

— If the trade were made, the Vikings would suddenly own the 8th and 14th picks in this year’s draft.

— Teddy’s cap hit to the Vikings would be $17 million in 2021 and $20 million in 2022, just under half of Kirk’s.

So ... pretend Carolina is on the phone making this offer. Would you do it?
Absolutely. Which begs the question, if Cousins is so great, why weren't there any offers? It's because no one wants any part of that contract.
That's exactly the problem, isn't it?

Stafford is no better a quarterback that Cousins, but his contract is SO MUCH more friendly to the Rams than Cousins' would be to any team who trades for him. The Rams' cap hit is $20 million this year and $23 million next year, with none of it guaranteed.

The Vikings screwed themselves twice with the extension they gave Cousins last year. First by adding $30 million in signing bonus to reduce the 2020 cap hit, and second by making his back-end salary so high that other teams won't touch him. This is likely the reason most analysts are talking about the Vikings getting a second-round draft choice for Cousins, at best — not the high first-rounder the Panthers offered Detroit.

This more than anything is why I want a regime change. As always, the Vikings continue to be bad enough to either miss the playoffs or barely make it, and just good enough to not have a shot at a difference-making quarterback in the draft. At some point, a team has to realize the plan isn't working. Seven years into the Zimmer era, and we're right back where we started ... at 7-9.
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by Fat Stupid Loser » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:52 am

S197 wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:49 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:13 pm
So I still haven’t heard an answer to my question, so I’ll ask again.

The Carolina Panthers reportedly offered their first-round pick (No. 8 overall), a fifth-round pick, and Teddy Bridgewater to Detroit for Matthew Stafford, a quarterback who is, at best, on par with Kirk Cousins.

If the Panthers offered the same package to the Vikings, would you take it?

Some things to keep in mind.

— On March 19, Cousins’ 2022 salary of $35 million becomes fully guaranteed, meaning the Vikings would be on the hook for $76 million over the next two seasons ($31 million for 2021, plus $35 million salary and &10 million prorated bonus in 2022).

— Kirk’s camp has said that he is not interested in restructuring, which means the Vikings will pay the full ride unless they deal him before March 19.

— If the trade were made, the Vikings would suddenly own the 8th and 14th picks in this year’s draft.

— Teddy’s cap hit to the Vikings would be $17 million in 2021 and $20 million in 2022, just under half of Kirk’s.

So ... pretend Carolina is on the phone making this offer. Would you do it?
Absolutely. Which begs the question, if Cousins is so great, why weren't there any offers? It's because no one wants any part of that contract.
Or because there was never any indications from anyone that he was available?
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by VikingPaul73 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:01 am

Kapp - not only would I take that deal with Carolina , I would take any deal with anyone that would take that $45M 2022 hit off of our hands

Cousins for a 7th, straight up. Draft a QB this year and sign a competent old vet
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by chicagopurple » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:48 am

yup, that is what we need together with a OL rebuild.....but spielman is incapable of that task and I dont believe there is any team dumb enough to be a suitor for such a deal.....and it basically represents a rebuilt...again...i am getting too old for this crap.
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:55 am

Fat Stupid Loser wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:52 am
S197 wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:49 pm


Absolutely. Which begs the question, if Cousins is so great, why weren't there any offers? It's because no one wants any part of that contract.
Or because there was never any indications from anyone that he was available?
That shouldn't stop teams from reaching out. The Vikings, due to the nature of Cousin's contract, need teams to believe they are happy with Cousins and don't want to trade him to drive up his trade value. The minute they mention they are willing to trade him his trade value plummets, because if the Vikings let the world know they want to move on from Cousins it changes the dynamic of their relationship with their QB completely. A QB who they cannot cut once they are 3 days into the new league year without eating 76 million in dead cap. Teams will take advantage of the rift even mentioning trading the QB created and a 3rd round pick might be the best we can get.

So even if the Vikings wanted to trade Cousins, they can't actually let anyone know they want to and just have to hope a team makes an offer.

If I were a GM desperate for a starting QB but am not drafting high enough to get one that way, like Indy, SF, or Chicago, I am reaching out to any team with a vet QB who may or may not be available via trade if I think that QB can be the difference maker.

No one is reaching out to the Vikings.
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by Fat Stupid Loser » Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:14 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:55 am
Fat Stupid Loser wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:52 am


Or because there was never any indications from anyone that he was available?
That shouldn't stop teams from reaching out. The Vikings, due to the nature of Cousin's contract, need teams to believe they are happy with Cousins and don't want to trade him to drive up his trade value. The minute they mention they are willing to trade him his trade value plummets, because if the Vikings let the world know they want to move on from Cousins it changes the dynamic of their relationship with their QB completely. A QB who they cannot cut once they are 3 days into the new league year without eating 76 million in dead cap. Teams will take advantage of the rift even mentioning trading the QB created and a 3rd round pick might be the best we can get.

So even if the Vikings wanted to trade Cousins, they can't actually let anyone know they want to and just have to hope a team makes an offer.

If I were a GM desperate for a starting QB but am not drafting high enough to get one that way, like Indy, SF, or Chicago, I am reaching out to any team with a vet QB who may or may not be available via trade if I think that QB can be the difference maker.

No one is reaching out to the Vikings.
I get all that. Its logical. I'm just not so sure that is what is really going on. Don't think there is a lot of, "hey, we need a QB and you have a really good one in his prime, want to trade him to us" happening in the NFL very often. Because they know the answer they will get. "Ummmm….No, you serious?" "Or LOL sure, we will consider raping you. What do you have in mind?"
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:19 am

VikingPaul73 wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:01 am
Kapp - not only would I take that deal with Carolina , I would take any deal with anyone that would take that $45M 2022 hit off of our hands

Cousins for a 7th, straight up. Draft a QB this year and sign a competent old vet
Well, they'd only be taking $35 million off our hands. Cousins' $20 million bonus money ($10 million each in 2021 and 2022) counts against the Vikings.

That's what sucks about his contract. The salary portion for 2022 ($35 million) is what teams would be taking on, and it's so out of whack with what he's worth that I'm afraid nobody will give us a look. His 2021 salary of $21 million isn't a deterrent, but that big number in '22 is. For example, Indianapolis would be better off with Cousins than Jacoby Brissett or Jacob Eason. Yet they apparently have no interest. It's that damn $35 million salary in 2022. The Vikings need to trade him, but they've made him untradeable.

I think a LOT is going to depend on what happens with Carson Wentz. His contract may be even more heinous than Cousins, with $107 million guaranteed. If the Eagles can get anywhere near what they're asking for — a first-round pick — then that could open the door for a trade of somebody like Cousins. But honestly, it feels like a longshot.

The more this offseason plays out, the only thing we can realistically hope for is that Kyle Shanahan's man-crush on Cousins gets the better of GM John Lynch. Otherwise, it's looking more and more like we're going to be stuck with Cousins' huge cap hits (a projected 20% in 2021 and at least 22.5% in 2022) and lack of roster flexibility.
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:11 pm

Fat Stupid Loser wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:14 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:55 am


That shouldn't stop teams from reaching out. The Vikings, due to the nature of Cousin's contract, need teams to believe they are happy with Cousins and don't want to trade him to drive up his trade value. The minute they mention they are willing to trade him his trade value plummets, because if the Vikings let the world know they want to move on from Cousins it changes the dynamic of their relationship with their QB completely. A QB who they cannot cut once they are 3 days into the new league year without eating 76 million in dead cap. Teams will take advantage of the rift even mentioning trading the QB created and a 3rd round pick might be the best we can get.

So even if the Vikings wanted to trade Cousins, they can't actually let anyone know they want to and just have to hope a team makes an offer.

If I were a GM desperate for a starting QB but am not drafting high enough to get one that way, like Indy, SF, or Chicago, I am reaching out to any team with a vet QB who may or may not be available via trade if I think that QB can be the difference maker.

No one is reaching out to the Vikings.
I get all that. Its logical. I'm just not so sure that is what is really going on. Don't think there is a lot of, "hey, we need a QB and you have a really good one in his prime, want to trade him to us" happening in the NFL very often. Because they know the answer they will get. "Ummmm….No, you serious?" "Or LOL sure, we will consider raping you. What do you have in mind?"
If I were a fan of a team like Indy or the Bears and my team wasn't kicking the tires on a QB who was "a really good one in his prime", and who played on a team where half the fan base would be ecstatic if he were gone, while the other half would be indifferent, I would be pretty pissed.

Reaching out to teams with elite or young QBs like KC, Buffalo, Cincy, AZ, LAC, and realistically even Seattle and GB would be stupid, but any other team's QB should be considered available for the right price. As a GM, if I liked a QB like Ryan, Carr, Jimmy G, Cousins, Tannehill, Big Ben, and even guys like Jackson and Mayfield, I would reach out to see if there was a realistic trade that could be made. If they immediately hung up, fine, at least I tried, but one of those teams might feel they aren't close and 2 1sts (a very reasonable price for a good starting QB) is more valuable to them at the moment than their current QB.

Rick for instance would be a fool to turn that down, don't you agree?
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by chicagopurple » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:30 pm

But, sadly, Rick IS a fool....hence this asinine contract extension we are stuck with
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by Fat Stupid Loser » Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:28 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:11 pm
Fat Stupid Loser wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:14 am

I get all that. Its logical. I'm just not so sure that is what is really going on. Don't think there is a lot of, "hey, we need a QB and you have a really good one in his prime, want to trade him to us" happening in the NFL very often. Because they know the answer they will get. "Ummmm….No, you serious?" "Or LOL sure, we will consider raping you. What do you have in mind?"
If I were a fan of a team like Indy or the Bears and my team wasn't kicking the tires on a QB who was "a really good one in his prime", and who played on a team where half the fan base would be ecstatic if he were gone, while the other half would be indifferent, I would be pretty pissed.

Reaching out to teams with elite or young QBs like KC, Buffalo, Cincy, AZ, LAC, and realistically even Seattle and GB would be stupid, but any other team's QB should be considered available for the right price. As a GM, if I liked a QB like Ryan, Carr, Jimmy G, Cousins, Tannehill, Big Ben, and even guys like Jackson and Mayfield, I would reach out to see if there was a realistic trade that could be made. If they immediately hung up, fine, at least I tried, but one of those teams might feel they aren't close and 2 1sts (a very reasonable price for a good starting QB) is more valuable to them at the moment than their current QB.

Rick for instance would be a fool to turn that down, don't you agree?
All depends on many variables. Two firsts, just cause they are two firsts, maybe not. Depends on their value this year. Next year's first's value is a guess. Do those picks allow me to move up high enough to get the can't miss QB? Is there even one in the draft this year. There is only one this year. And Jags aren't giving him up I don't care how many future firsts someone throws at them. Because these can't miss 15 year franchise guys are rare birds. Everyone else is just another QB. A very few of them become very good QBs, but as evidenced on this very board, those guys are never good enough. But yes, Rick should certainly entertain two firsts for Cousins. I believe odds strongly favor losing in that trade. But anything can happen. Find the Unicorn! Win for life. I'm off to 7-11 to buy a Powerball ticket. Tonight's the night I can feel it.
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by S197 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:57 pm

Fat Stupid Loser wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:52 am
S197 wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:49 pm


Absolutely. Which begs the question, if Cousins is so great, why weren't there any offers? It's because no one wants any part of that contract.
Or because there was never any indications from anyone that he was available?
Certainly plausible but I would put my money on the contract. $45M is in the Mahomes realm. Even if the trading team only takes on $35M, they need to negotiate with a guy that’s going to make $45M one way or another in 2022. It makes it much harder to do a longer term deal.
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by Frozen Rope » Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:33 pm

Fat Stupid Loser wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:28 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:11 pm


If I were a fan of a team like Indy or the Bears and my team wasn't kicking the tires on a QB who was "a really good one in his prime", and who played on a team where half the fan base would be ecstatic if he were gone, while the other half would be indifferent, I would be pretty pissed.

Reaching out to teams with elite or young QBs like KC, Buffalo, Cincy, AZ, LAC, and realistically even Seattle and GB would be stupid, but any other team's QB should be considered available for the right price. As a GM, if I liked a QB like Ryan, Carr, Jimmy G, Cousins, Tannehill, Big Ben, and even guys like Jackson and Mayfield, I would reach out to see if there was a realistic trade that could be made. If they immediately hung up, fine, at least I tried, but one of those teams might feel they aren't close and 2 1sts (a very reasonable price for a good starting QB) is more valuable to them at the moment than their current QB.

Rick for instance would be a fool to turn that down, don't you agree?
All depends on many variables. Two firsts, just cause they are two firsts, maybe not. Depends on their value this year. Next year's first's value is a guess. Do those picks allow me to move up high enough to get the can't miss QB? Is there even one in the draft this year. There is only one this year. And Jags aren't giving him up I don't care how many future firsts someone throws at them. Because these can't miss 15 year franchise guys are rare birds. Everyone else is just another QB. A very few of them become very good QBs, but as evidenced on this very board, those guys are never good enough. But yes, Rick should certainly entertain two firsts for Cousins. I believe odds strongly favor losing in that trade. But anything can happen. Find the Unicorn! Win for life. I'm off to 7-11 to buy a Powerball ticket. Tonight's the night I can feel it.
Well stated FSL. Now run out and buy that ticket while you’re hot
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by CharVike » Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:31 am

Fat Stupid Loser wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:28 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:11 pm


If I were a fan of a team like Indy or the Bears and my team wasn't kicking the tires on a QB who was "a really good one in his prime", and who played on a team where half the fan base would be ecstatic if he were gone, while the other half would be indifferent, I would be pretty pissed.

Reaching out to teams with elite or young QBs like KC, Buffalo, Cincy, AZ, LAC, and realistically even Seattle and GB would be stupid, but any other team's QB should be considered available for the right price. As a GM, if I liked a QB like Ryan, Carr, Jimmy G, Cousins, Tannehill, Big Ben, and even guys like Jackson and Mayfield, I would reach out to see if there was a realistic trade that could be made. If they immediately hung up, fine, at least I tried, but one of those teams might feel they aren't close and 2 1sts (a very reasonable price for a good starting QB) is more valuable to them at the moment than their current QB.

Rick for instance would be a fool to turn that down, don't you agree?
All depends on many variables. Two firsts, just cause they are two firsts, maybe not. Depends on their value this year. Next year's first's value is a guess. Do those picks allow me to move up high enough to get the can't miss QB? Is there even one in the draft this year. There is only one this year. And Jags aren't giving him up I don't care how many future firsts someone throws at them. Because these can't miss 15 year franchise guys are rare birds. Everyone else is just another QB. A very few of them become very good QBs, but as evidenced on this very board, those guys are never good enough. But yes, Rick should certainly entertain two firsts for Cousins. I believe odds strongly favor losing in that trade. But anything can happen. Find the Unicorn! Win for life. I'm off to 7-11 to buy a Powerball ticket. Tonight's the night I can feel it.
Your right the odds of losing in a 2 first round pick trade would be the betting favorite. 2 first will never allow you to move up to get the franchise QB. The Jags won't give up pick 1 for anything this year. They could trade it for the great Watson but won't. That can't miss QB always goes pick 1. Remember the old suck for luck deal. People make up stuff because they don't like Cousins. Some have posted no other team showed any interest in Cousins when he was a FA. That's far from the truth. Many teams wanted him. Others post he's not a very good QB. That's bull also. Others feel we are missing out on a bunch of great FAs because of his contract. IMO we need a dominate pass rusher. In the mold of LT or Reggie White. That type of player is hardly ever available in FA. If they are any team can find the money. Reggie White was available and pushed the Pack over the top. I don't see those type of players in FA every year. Dominate young HOF type players don't make it to FA. Our offense did very well last year and some want to break it up. Our team needs to improve our defense and by that I mean pass rushers and cover guys that get turnovers. Every QB goes backwards when there is big time pressure. Happens to Rodgers and I seen it happen to Brady. Make them move and it changes their game.
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Re: Cousins Trade Rumors

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:23 am

Fat Stupid Loser wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:28 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:11 pm


If I were a fan of a team like Indy or the Bears and my team wasn't kicking the tires on a QB who was "a really good one in his prime", and who played on a team where half the fan base would be ecstatic if he were gone, while the other half would be indifferent, I would be pretty pissed.

Reaching out to teams with elite or young QBs like KC, Buffalo, Cincy, AZ, LAC, and realistically even Seattle and GB would be stupid, but any other team's QB should be considered available for the right price. As a GM, if I liked a QB like Ryan, Carr, Jimmy G, Cousins, Tannehill, Big Ben, and even guys like Jackson and Mayfield, I would reach out to see if there was a realistic trade that could be made. If they immediately hung up, fine, at least I tried, but one of those teams might feel they aren't close and 2 1sts (a very reasonable price for a good starting QB) is more valuable to them at the moment than their current QB.

Rick for instance would be a fool to turn that down, don't you agree?
All depends on many variables. Two firsts, just cause they are two firsts, maybe not. Depends on their value this year. Next year's first's value is a guess. Do those picks allow me to move up high enough to get the can't miss QB? Is there even one in the draft this year. There is only one this year. And Jags aren't giving him up I don't care how many future firsts someone throws at them. Because these can't miss 15 year franchise guys are rare birds. Everyone else is just another QB. A very few of them become very good QBs, but as evidenced on this very board, those guys are never good enough. But yes, Rick should certainly entertain two firsts for Cousins. I believe odds strongly favor losing in that trade. But anything can happen. Find the Unicorn! Win for life. I'm off to 7-11 to buy a Powerball ticket. Tonight's the night I can feel it.
Comparing the odds of finding a QB better than Cousins in the draft to the odds of winning the Powerball is silly analogy. There is some luck involved in finding a QBOTF in the draft, but even more important than luck is good decision making. Reed has pretty much had pro bowl caliber QB his entire time in the NFL, not because he is lucky but because he is good at identifying a QB who can run his system in the draft. The Packers have had a long term solution at QB for the past 2 decades not because they are lucky, but because they identified Rodgers as a QBOTF when they didn't really need a QB, and spent a 1st on him. The Chargers could have stuck with Rivers and been just fine at QB, but they realized they needed better than an overpaid aging QB and decided to find their QB in the draft, and will now have a franchise QB for years to come.

If the Vikings stick with Cousins, they will have a QB is okay, overpaid and who doesn't give them a shot at winning the SB. If they trade him, they can add players via free agency to improve the team, find a journey man backup like Case Keenum who can win just as many games as Cousins would have, AND actually get in the running for a rookie QB who can win it all. There is certainly a risk that the Vikings regress from the 9 wins they could get with Cousins to 4 or 5 wins with a lesser QB sure, but in the end what are you really risking there? A WC round loss? Is that really worth guaranteeing you never find your QBOTF?
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