What does the Stafford Trade Mean for the Vikings?

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How nervous/happy are you about this trade as a Vikings fan?

Happy, 12 years of being a loser is not enough evidence to me that Stafford isn't good enough on the Lions and I am glad he is out of the division
1
8%
Nervous, statistically the two QBs getting traded could not be closer than Stafford and Goff, and now the Lions have an extra first in the next two drafts after this one to make their team better
3
25%
It doesn't matter, it is the Lions and they will be bad no matter what trades they make
8
67%
 
Total votes: 12

Pondering Her Percy
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Re: What does the Stafford Trade Mean for the Vikings?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:25 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:32 pm
Maelstrom88 wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:43 am
The Lions are set up very well in about 3 years IF they draft well. They got a steal here and it speaks well of the new administration. The Rams gave up two firsts to get Goff and 2 firsts to get rid of Goff. He's a 4 first round pick QB :rofl: Stafford is an upgrade but I'm not sure by how much. Their defense got gashed vs. GB so I'm not sold on them either. They may not be the best team in their division let alone the league and all those thin drafts will catch up with them. They are 33 million over the cap I believe, their LT is ancient, and I heard their LG is set to be a free agent.
You would think the 9ers fans would be all over trading for Cousins, especially since they were wanting to give up a ton for Stafford before he went to the Rams and Cousins is arguably a better QB and fits Shannahan's system well.

Emphatic no's from every 9er board I have suggested it on. Guys who were pounding the table for Stafford don't even want to give up a 2nd for Cousins. Kind of embarrassing that we are going to pay 76 million over 2 years for a QB no other fanbase wants for 56 million over 2.
The thing is, it doesnt matter what other fanbases want or think. I can tell you right now, if Shanahan had the choice between Stafford or Cousins he'd take Cousins 10 times out of 10.

I agree with CV that anyone that thinks Stafford is some elite QB doesnt have a clue. Matt Stafford is the biggest loser in football in terms of career win/loss. What's everyone's response? "Well he was on the Lions his entire career".....okay? Stafford was also on some teams that were plenty good enough to make a run. The 2014 Lions had a top 3 defense in the NFL. He also had Calvin Johnson to throw to his entire career who is a future HOFer. Yeah the Lions had some really bad teams but let's not dismiss that they never had any good ones either. You could make the same argument for Cousins and say "well he was on the Redskins for a large portion of his career". And let's be honest, the Redskins never had a roster like the 2014 Lions did. Especially defensively. In the last few days the amount of tweets I've seen that said "Stafford is a winner" makes me wanna puke. He's literally the exact opposite of that. Yet the media has surrounded Cousins with so much hate which then trickles down into Vikings fans or just football fans in general...yet Matt Stafford gets all this praise, when he's started 61 more games than Cousins and has literally done much less than Cousins ever has.

I get that Cousins isnt some superstar. I get peoples frustrations with him at times. But this is exactly what annoys me about the Kirk Cousins argument in general. Like WHY does that man receive so much hate? Cousins looked like he was going to be a savior for Washington as RGIII continued to spiral out of control. Then when that disgustingly dysfunctional franchise continued to franchise tag him year after year like they "had a plan and knew something nobody else did", the media then went to find stats to cherry pick, tallied up his monday night record, tallied up his record vs. .500 and above teams, etc. Then he gets a big contract from the Vikings and is just suppose to take them to the SB because the year prior they were almost there and he didnt. Even though any football fan that just thinks that's how the NFL works is you just add one player and fill one hole and SB bound here we come is just an idiot.

And what was Washingtons master plan for not holding onto Kirk Cousins? Alex Smith? Dwayne Haskins? Case Keenum? Oh yeah....4 years later and they dont have jack shi* for a QB. They were just starting fricken Taylor Heinecke in a playoff game.

Bottom line is, the Vikings signed Cousins a year too late. We signed Cousins past the point of our peak along with an OC that was....just terrible in every facet. By the time our offense recovered from the Flip debacle, this defense was already on it's downhill slide. And here we are. Just 4 years ago we are the #1 defense in the NFL. And in 2021, that has practically flipped and we have a solid offense and a bad (more-so depleted) defense.

The Rams just completely mortgaged their future (literally) on the biggest loser in football (also literally). Giving up TWO first rounders and a 3rd. That can literally put a dagger in your football teams future. The Vikings simply paid Kirk Cousins and that contract (that everyone seems to continue to complain about) has yet to cost us any major players on this roster or prevented us from signing players in free agency. Nor did we lose any draft picks in the process. The Rams took a MUCH worse gamble on Stafford than we did on Cousins and in my opinion, it was for a lesser QB.
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Re: What does the Stafford Trade Mean for the Vikings?

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:06 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:25 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:32 pm


You would think the 9ers fans would be all over trading for Cousins, especially since they were wanting to give up a ton for Stafford before he went to the Rams and Cousins is arguably a better QB and fits Shannahan's system well.

Emphatic no's from every 9er board I have suggested it on. Guys who were pounding the table for Stafford don't even want to give up a 2nd for Cousins. Kind of embarrassing that we are going to pay 76 million over 2 years for a QB no other fanbase wants for 56 million over 2.
The thing is, it doesnt matter what other fanbases want or think. I can tell you right now, if Shanahan had the choice between Stafford or Cousins he'd take Cousins 10 times out of 10.

I agree with CV that anyone that thinks Stafford is some elite QB doesnt have a clue. Matt Stafford is the biggest loser in football in terms of career win/loss. What's everyone's response? "Well he was on the Lions his entire career".....okay? Stafford was also on some teams that were plenty good enough to make a run. The 2014 Lions had a top 3 defense in the NFL. He also had Calvin Johnson to throw to his entire career who is a future HOFer. Yeah the Lions had some really bad teams but let's not dismiss that they never had any good ones either. You could make the same argument for Cousins and say "well he was on the Redskins for a large portion of his career". And let's be honest, the Redskins never had a roster like the 2014 Lions did. Especially defensively. In the last few days the amount of tweets I've seen that said "Stafford is a winner" makes me wanna puke. He's literally the exact opposite of that. Yet the media has surrounded Cousins with so much hate which then trickles down into Vikings fans or just football fans in general...yet Matt Stafford gets all this praise, when he's started 61 more games than Cousins and has literally done much less than Cousins ever has.

I get that Cousins isnt some superstar. I get peoples frustrations with him at times. But this is exactly what annoys me about the Kirk Cousins argument in general. Like WHY does that man receive so much hate? Cousins looked like he was going to be a savior for Washington as RGIII continued to spiral out of control. Then when that disgustingly dysfunctional franchise continued to franchise tag him year after year like they "had a plan and knew something nobody else did", the media then went to find stats to cherry pick, tallied up his monday night record, tallied up his record vs. .500 and above teams, etc. Then he gets a big contract from the Vikings and is just suppose to take them to the SB because the year prior they were almost there and he didnt. Even though any football fan that just thinks that's how the NFL works is you just add one player and fill one hole and SB bound here we come is just an idiot.

And what was Washingtons master plan for not holding onto Kirk Cousins? Alex Smith? Dwayne Haskins? Case Keenum? Oh yeah....4 years later and they dont have jack shi* for a QB. They were just starting fricken Taylor Heinecke in a playoff game.

Bottom line is, the Vikings signed Cousins a year too late. We signed Cousins past the point of our peak along with an OC that was....just terrible in every facet. By the time our offense recovered from the Flip debacle, this defense was already on it's downhill slide. And here we are. Just 4 years ago we are the #1 defense in the NFL. And in 2021, that has practically flipped and we have a solid offense and a bad (more-so depleted) defense.

The Rams just completely mortgaged their future (literally) on the biggest loser in football (also literally). Giving up TWO first rounders and a 3rd. That can literally put a dagger in your football teams future. The Vikings simply paid Kirk Cousins and that contract (that everyone seems to continue to complain about) has yet to cost us any major players on this roster or prevented us from signing players in free agency. Nor did we lose any draft picks in the process. The Rams took a MUCH worse gamble on Stafford than we did on Cousins and in my opinion, it was for a lesser QB.
No argument from me on Stafford. At a certain point you are what your record says you are. There is a reason the Lions have haven't been able to consistently put a team around Stafford that was capable of making the playoffs.
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Re: What does the Stafford Trade Mean for the Vikings?

Post by Cliff » Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:18 am

Stafford and Cousins might as well be the same QB as far as what it means to a team. They're not "elevating" a team but under the right conditions they can win. In three years Cousins is: 8-7, 10-6, and 7-9 with the Vikings. Does anybody see the team with any more or fewer wins with Stafford?

Going over their individual differences is splitting hairs. What they mean to the team they're on is basically the same.
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Re: What does the Stafford Trade Mean for the Vikings?

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:32 pm

Cliff wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:18 am
Stafford and Cousins might as well be the same QB as far as what it means to a team. They're not "elevating" a team but under the right conditions they can win. In three years Cousins is: 8-7, 10-6, and 7-9 with the Vikings. Does anybody see the team with any more or fewer wins with Stafford?

Going over their individual differences is splitting hairs. What they mean to the team they're on is basically the same.
Correct, and I would say the same thing about Goff.
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Re: What does the Stafford Trade Mean for the Vikings?

Post by VikingLord » Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:33 pm

I don't think it means much in terms of the overall competitiveness of the Lions or impact on the competitive situation within the division.

Teams with franchise QBs don't trade them. Stafford isn't a franchise QB. He's a guy with talent for sure, but that talent hasn't translated to making his team much better than they'd be without him.

It is a good deal for the Lions overall, though, because they shouldn't experience much of a drop off at QB with Goff, plus they get some nice juicy draft capital to work with. Whether they can turn that into additional talent that improves the overall team is unknown, so at least in that sense the Lions got the better deal in the trade.

It will be interesting to see if the change in scenery ignites something in Stafford. The talent is there. Maybe with some new coaching and in a different situation Stafford will realize it. If that happens the trade could pay off for the Rams as they have a very talented overall team. I'm not convinced it will, but stranger things have happened.
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Re: What does the Stafford Trade Mean for the Vikings?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:39 pm

Cliff wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:18 am
Stafford and Cousins might as well be the same QB as far as what it means to a team. They're not "elevating" a team but under the right conditions they can win. In three years Cousins is: 8-7, 10-6, and 7-9 with the Vikings. Does anybody see the team with any more or fewer wins with Stafford?

Going over their individual differences is splitting hairs. What they mean to the team they're on is basically the same.
Eh, I mean I would say probably less with Stafford if anything solely based on durability. Cousins is never hurt. Stafford is always banged up. We would've definitely had some worse records if Mannion had to come in.
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Re: What does the Stafford Trade Mean for the Vikings?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:11 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:32 pm
Cliff wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:18 am
Stafford and Cousins might as well be the same QB as far as what it means to a team. They're not "elevating" a team but under the right conditions they can win. In three years Cousins is: 8-7, 10-6, and 7-9 with the Vikings. Does anybody see the team with any more or fewer wins with Stafford?

Going over their individual differences is splitting hairs. What they mean to the team they're on is basically the same.
Correct, and I would say the same thing about Goff.
Eh I would say both Stafford and Cousins are better than Goff. I mean, we do realize that this "they dont elevate a team but under the right conditions they can win" statement pretty much applies to 90% of QB in this league?

Im not a big believer in records telling the whole story because they often dont. However we have seen Matt Stafford plenty of times over the years. Cousins is a better QB than Stafford is. And they are both better QBs than Goff is.

Interesting statistic I found today.

This was leading up to the 2019 season....

-Matt Stafford career record (at the time) vs. winning teams.....9-54
-Kirk Cousins career record (at the time) vs winning teams.....5-24

......Aaron Rodgers record (at the time) since 2012 vs. winning teams..... 7-24 :shock:
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Re: What does the Stafford Trade Mean for the Vikings?

Post by S197 » Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:47 pm

Definitely interesting. The world finally gets to see if Stafford really is a good QB or not. I definitely wouldn't have given up two 1sts for him, I guess the Rams feel like they're in their window.

Not too concerned about the Lions, they've been 2-years away from being really good as far back as I can remember.
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Re: What does the Stafford Trade Mean for the Vikings?

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:12 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:11 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:32 pm


Correct, and I would say the same thing about Goff.
Eh I would say both Stafford and Cousins are better than Goff. I mean, we do realize that this "they dont elevate a team but under the right conditions they can win" statement pretty much applies to 90% of QB in this league?

Im not a big believer in records telling the whole story because they often dont. However we have seen Matt Stafford plenty of times over the years. Cousins is a better QB than Stafford is. And they are both better QBs than Goff is.

Interesting statistic I found today.

This was leading up to the 2019 season....

-Matt Stafford career record (at the time) vs. winning teams.....9-54
-Kirk Cousins career record (at the time) vs winning teams.....5-24

......Aaron Rodgers record (at the time) since 2012 vs. winning teams..... 7-24 :shock:
Interesting you should bring up records against good teams, because Goff has some interesting numbers against good passing defenses that should trouble most Lions fans.

Against Top 10 passer rated defenses in 2018 and 2019:
Record:
3-6
Passer Rating:
74.3
Points Scored:
17.7

Those numbers are grossly inflated due to the 2018 game where we were still reeling from the Griffen distraction. That was his only game with a 100+ passer rating. Also of note in 2018, the year Goff went to the SB, his team only played 3 teams with a top 10 passer rated defense: MN, Chicago...and NE.

Here are the numbers of other QBs during that time period for context:
After being admonished by Funky for being too subjective, here are the numbers:
Average Passer rating against top 10 passing defenses since 2018
Mahomes: 105
Brees: 103
Ryan: 96
Rodgers: 95
Stafford: 93
Dak: 91
Wilson: 89
Carr: 88
Brady:86
Cousins: 60

Record against top 10 passing defenses since 2018:
Mahomes: 8-3
Brees: 5-2
Ryan: 2-3
Rodgers: 7-5-1
Stafford: 1-7
Wilson: 4-5
Carr: 1-6
Cousins: 0-11
Brady 7-4
Dak: 3-6

Average points scored against top 10 passing defenses since 2018:
Mahomes: 31
Brees: 29 (this is padded quite a bit by a single game against SF, but he is probably still #2 without it)
Brady: 23
Wilson: 22
Dak: 21
Stafford: 21
Rodgers: 20
Ryan: 19
Carr: 18
Cousins: 13

Stafford actually shows up well in these stats because of how well he was playing in 2019 and because he didn't get the opportunity in the second half of that season to melt down. Cousins' numbers speak for themselves, although I think 2020 bumped up his passer rating and points scored a bit with the only game against a top 10 pass defense being against the Saints. Still hasn't gotten that win as a Viking though.
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