Next OC for the Vikings?

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Next OC for the Vikings? who do you want, not who do you think.

Klint Kubiak
10
71%
Anthony Lynn
0
No votes
Hue Jackson
1
7%
Rick Dennison
0
No votes
Other
3
21%
 
Total votes: 14

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J. Kapp 11
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Re: Next OC for the Vikings?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:38 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:52 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:25 am
That, more than anything, is why I'd choose Russell Wilson over Kirk Cousins at twice the price (not literally ... figure of speech). But don't be offended, Cousins fans. I'd choose Russell Wilson over all but maybe two QBs in the NFL right now, and even those would be touch choices. The guy flat-out wins. We're talking 98 regular-season wins in 9 seasons, the most by any QB in NFL history. He's added 9 playoff wins, which means he's averaged just shy of 12 total wins per season since he entered the league. I've been at this Vikings fan thing for 52 years. I'd like to see us win the trophy ONCE in my freaking lifetime.
Wilson is reportedly not happy in Seattle.

Should the Vikings trade the farm for him?

Assuming they are trading the farm then, trade it for him or for Watson?

All the stats Stump lists don't matter to the argument. I never claimed Cousins was as good as either Wilson or Watson (or probably another QB who's name starts with a 'W' for that matter as pretty much every QB seems to be better than Cousins).

My argument is, you don't need a 'W' QB to win a Superbowl. You need a good team. You need a complete team.

The following isn't directed specifically at you, but is more an observation.

In Minnesota, the coming of the Pro Football Messiah is still awaited by many fans. It's like a prophecy. We're only that *one* magical player away and then we win. Sure, Mike Lynn already tested that prophecy and found it false way back in the late '80's. Spielman tried it again with Favre (well, maybe not just Spielman, but he was involved) in 2009. Didn't work then either.

And now it's just Watson of the what, 4 win Texans? Or maybe it's Wilson. Or maybe it's someone else. But there is just that *one* guy who makes it all better, damn the state of the rest of the team. This savior overcomes obvious defensive flaws. He can make an average offensive line look awesome. Bad coaching? No sweat. Poor officiating? Not a problem for the Messiah. Key injuries late in a season? Forgeddaaboutit.

The Player Messiah will overcome all that. We just have to find him, and once we do, key up the Superbowl wins.

As it stands, the only player in the NFL who even approaches such a status, the only one I would buy the arguments being bandied about here and respect the record and the stats without much question, is Tom Brady. That doesn't mean I don't think Watson is a good and potentially great QB, or that I discount what Russell Wilson has accomplished or may still accomplish in his career. It just means that I don't buy the singular savior player argument. Teams have, can, and will win Superbowls without more than largely average QBs. The Vikings can be one of them. They can win with Kirk Cousins and probably win with someone even less talented and effective than Cousins. I just doubt that they can or will do it if they have the best QB in the league, but don't fix the team around the guy. Even Tom Brady can't overcome fundamental flaws/misfortunes.

Anyway, I seem to be in the minority on this so I'll probably leave it here. But suffice it to say, I will be less excited about next season if Spielman trades away significant draft capital to acquire either Watson or Wilson while the existing areas of need on the team languish than I will if he hits on key acquisitions in areas of need on the team and they stick with Cousins. That's just the way I see it, and I strongly suspect Spielman and Zimmer agree with my perspective more than with those who yearn for the Player Messiah.
For the record, I've come to terms with the fact that Kirk Cousins is our quarterback for the foreseeable future. And I'll root hard for him, just as I have since the day he arrived.

My point was that Russell Wilson is better, period. I didn't say the Vikings should trade for him. He's simply better, and he HAS lifted a mediocre roster. But trade for him? It puts the Vikings in the same financial position they'd be in with Cousins (maybe worse ... I'm tired today and not looking up contracts) and we'd be giving up at least as many draft choices as we would with Deshaun Watson. It's simply not do-able unless Cousins is worth a first to somebody, which he apparently isn't.

No, I wouldn't give up the farm for Russell Wilson. In 2016 or 2017? Absolutely. Our roster was full of studs, top to bottom. Adding a truly electric quarterback, a winner, might have put us over the top. But with our roster now? No way. We have skill positions and little else.

However, straight-up, based simply on their play, I'd take Wilson over Kirk Cousins every day of the week and not give it a second thought. Unless I was reading you incorrectly, you were comparing stats and trying to make the case that Kirk Cousins' play is somehow on par with Wilson's. I don't care how you compare them. Wilson is miles better.

And it does piss me off that Russell Wilson's cap hit to Seattle over the next two years is $7 million LESS than Kirk Cousins'. (OK, I looked it up.) But there's not much anybody can do about that.
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Re: Next OC for the Vikings?

Post by YikesVikes » Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:48 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:38 pm
VikingLord wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:52 am


Wilson is reportedly not happy in Seattle.

Should the Vikings trade the farm for him?

Assuming they are trading the farm then, trade it for him or for Watson?

All the stats Stump lists don't matter to the argument. I never claimed Cousins was as good as either Wilson or Watson (or probably another QB who's name starts with a 'W' for that matter as pretty much every QB seems to be better than Cousins).

My argument is, you don't need a 'W' QB to win a Superbowl. You need a good team. You need a complete team.

The following isn't directed specifically at you, but is more an observation.

In Minnesota, the coming of the Pro Football Messiah is still awaited by many fans. It's like a prophecy. We're only that *one* magical player away and then we win. Sure, Mike Lynn already tested that prophecy and found it false way back in the late '80's. Spielman tried it again with Favre (well, maybe not just Spielman, but he was involved) in 2009. Didn't work then either.

And now it's just Watson of the what, 4 win Texans? Or maybe it's Wilson. Or maybe it's someone else. But there is just that *one* guy who makes it all better, damn the state of the rest of the team. This savior overcomes obvious defensive flaws. He can make an average offensive line look awesome. Bad coaching? No sweat. Poor officiating? Not a problem for the Messiah. Key injuries late in a season? Forgeddaaboutit.

The Player Messiah will overcome all that. We just have to find him, and once we do, key up the Superbowl wins.

As it stands, the only player in the NFL who even approaches such a status, the only one I would buy the arguments being bandied about here and respect the record and the stats without much question, is Tom Brady. That doesn't mean I don't think Watson is a good and potentially great QB, or that I discount what Russell Wilson has accomplished or may still accomplish in his career. It just means that I don't buy the singular savior player argument. Teams have, can, and will win Superbowls without more than largely average QBs. The Vikings can be one of them. They can win with Kirk Cousins and probably win with someone even less talented and effective than Cousins. I just doubt that they can or will do it if they have the best QB in the league, but don't fix the team around the guy. Even Tom Brady can't overcome fundamental flaws/misfortunes.

Anyway, I seem to be in the minority on this so I'll probably leave it here. But suffice it to say, I will be less excited about next season if Spielman trades away significant draft capital to acquire either Watson or Wilson while the existing areas of need on the team languish than I will if he hits on key acquisitions in areas of need on the team and they stick with Cousins. That's just the way I see it, and I strongly suspect Spielman and Zimmer agree with my perspective more than with those who yearn for the Player Messiah.
For the record, I've come to terms with the fact that Kirk Cousins is our quarterback for the foreseeable future. And I'll root hard for him, just as I have since the day he arrived.

My point was that Russell Wilson is better, period. I didn't say the Vikings should trade for him. He's simply better, and he HAS lifted a mediocre roster. But trade for him? It puts the Vikings in the same financial position they'd be in with Cousins (maybe worse ... I'm tired today and not looking up contracts) and we'd be giving up at least as many draft choices as we would with Deshaun Watson. It's simply not do-able unless Cousins is worth a first to somebody, which he apparently isn't.

No, I wouldn't give up the farm for Russell Wilson. In 2016 or 2017? Absolutely. Our roster was full of studs, top to bottom. Adding a truly electric quarterback, a winner, might have put us over the top. But with our roster now? No way. We have skill positions and little else.

However, straight-up, based simply on their play, I'd take Wilson over Kirk Cousins every day of the week and not give it a second thought. Unless I was reading you incorrectly, you were comparing stats and trying to make the case that Kirk Cousins' play is somehow on par with Wilson's. I don't care how you compare them. Wilson is miles better.

And it does piss me off that Russell Wilson's cap hit to Seattle over the next two years is $7 million LESS than Kirk Cousins'. (OK, I looked it up.) But there's not much anybody can do about that.
I think we should be able to do close to a near equal trade for Wilson. I think a 2nd and 3rd with Kirk will get the deal done.
Given his play last season and the fact that he has kind of shaken the loser label that was unfairly attached to him, I think Seattle desperate for a QB that can keep their SB window open, will bite. If they trade Wilson for 2 first-rounders, they have next to nothing to compete with an aging roster (KJ Wright, Wagner, etc). With Cousins they get a 4500 yard QB and an open window, even if it is a step back (top 3 QB - Top 8-10)
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Re: Next OC for the Vikings?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:50 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:48 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:38 pm

For the record, I've come to terms with the fact that Kirk Cousins is our quarterback for the foreseeable future. And I'll root hard for him, just as I have since the day he arrived.

My point was that Russell Wilson is better, period. I didn't say the Vikings should trade for him. He's simply better, and he HAS lifted a mediocre roster. But trade for him? It puts the Vikings in the same financial position they'd be in with Cousins (maybe worse ... I'm tired today and not looking up contracts) and we'd be giving up at least as many draft choices as we would with Deshaun Watson. It's simply not do-able unless Cousins is worth a first to somebody, which he apparently isn't.

No, I wouldn't give up the farm for Russell Wilson. In 2016 or 2017? Absolutely. Our roster was full of studs, top to bottom. Adding a truly electric quarterback, a winner, might have put us over the top. But with our roster now? No way. We have skill positions and little else.

However, straight-up, based simply on their play, I'd take Wilson over Kirk Cousins every day of the week and not give it a second thought. Unless I was reading you incorrectly, you were comparing stats and trying to make the case that Kirk Cousins' play is somehow on par with Wilson's. I don't care how you compare them. Wilson is miles better.

And it does piss me off that Russell Wilson's cap hit to Seattle over the next two years is $7 million LESS than Kirk Cousins'. (OK, I looked it up.) But there's not much anybody can do about that.
I think we should be able to do close to a near equal trade for Wilson. I think a 2nd and 3rd with Kirk will get the deal done.
Given his play last season and the fact that he has kind of shaken the loser label that was unfairly attached to him, I think Seattle desperate for a QB that can keep their SB window open, will bite. If they trade Wilson for 2 first-rounders, they have next to nothing to compete with an aging roster (KJ Wright, Wagner, etc). With Cousins they get a 4500 yard QB and an open window, even if it is a step back (top 3 QB - Top 8-10)
I would do a backflip off my back porch if Spielman pulled off such a deal.

Then I’d continue posting on VMB from the hospital.
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Re: Next OC for the Vikings?

Post by Passepartout » Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:44 pm

Get well there over in the hospital and keep on posting. But really hope it will be a great OC. If Kubiak Jr does not provide. But still give him a chance.
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Re: Next OC for the Vikings?

Post by VikingLord » Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:03 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 8:19 am
The Vikings, paying Kirk as much as they do, are trying to win it all in a way no team has ever won it all. Does that seem like a good strategy for winning the SB? Trying a strategy that not only has failed to fill the trophy case for any team in the history of the salary cap, but also has made most teams that try it mediocre to bad?

I don't think so, which is why I prefer the Vikings try a strategy that has actually been proven to work. Get a great QB like Wilson or Watson and try to win it all with them at the helm, or start over at the QB spot, paying a fraction of what Cousins costs us and actually be able to build that complete team around a bridge QB or a QB on a rookie contract. Make up for being at a disadvantage at QB with a better team you were able to build because you have 30 million more in cap to spend on other positions. Instead of just being at a disadvantage at QB and spending just as much on the position like we are with Cousins.
That's a great point, and one I won't argue with.

I'm a big believer in doing what has proven to work and Spielman went into uncharted territory with the Cousins contract.

But I don't think it is necessarily fatal to the Vikings' chances of winning a Superbowl with Cousins. It just shifts the burden of solving the issues in other areas of the team more to the draft and less to FA/trade. Spielman can still do it - he just needs to have some really good drafts. In particular, he needs to hit this upcoming draft out of the park.

Really wish he hadn't traded the 2nd rounder this year...
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Re: Next OC for the Vikings?

Post by VikingLord » Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:05 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:48 pm
I think we should be able to do close to a near equal trade for Wilson. I think a 2nd and 3rd with Kirk will get the deal done.
Given his play last season and the fact that he has kind of shaken the loser label that was unfairly attached to him, I think Seattle desperate for a QB that can keep their SB window open, will bite. If they trade Wilson for 2 first-rounders, they have next to nothing to compete with an aging roster (KJ Wright, Wagner, etc). With Cousins they get a 4500 yard QB and an open window, even if it is a step back (top 3 QB - Top 8-10)
I agree with Kapp - that would be a great trade for the Vikes if they could pull it off. It's getting real value at QB in Wilson without giving up the farm to do it.

But I don't see how Seattle would demand less than a 1st for Wilson and probably much more, which I think some team would be more than willing to give up.
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Re: Next OC for the Vikings?

Post by RandyMoss84 » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:49 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:03 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 8:19 am
The Vikings, paying Kirk as much as they do, are trying to win it all in a way no team has ever won it all. Does that seem like a good strategy for winning the SB? Trying a strategy that not only has failed to fill the trophy case for any team in the history of the salary cap, but also has made most teams that try it mediocre to bad?

I don't think so, which is why I prefer the Vikings try a strategy that has actually been proven to work. Get a great QB like Wilson or Watson and try to win it all with them at the helm, or start over at the QB spot, paying a fraction of what Cousins costs us and actually be able to build that complete team around a bridge QB or a QB on a rookie contract. Make up for being at a disadvantage at QB with a better team you were able to build because you have 30 million more in cap to spend on other positions. Instead of just being at a disadvantage at QB and spending just as much on the position like we are with Cousins.
That's a great point, and one I won't argue with.

I'm a big believer in doing what has proven to work and Spielman went into uncharted territory with the Cousins contract.

But I don't think it is necessarily fatal to the Vikings' chances of winning a Superbowl with Cousins. It just shifts the burden of solving the issues in other areas of the team more to the draft and less to FA/trade. Spielman can still do it - he just needs to have some really good drafts. In particular, he needs to hit this upcoming draft out of the park.

Really wish he hadn't traded the 2nd rounder this year...
Speilman can still get the 2nd rounder back in the draft
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Re: Next OC for the Vikings?

Post by YikesVikes » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:09 am

VikingLord wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:05 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:48 pm
I think we should be able to do close to a near equal trade for Wilson. I think a 2nd and 3rd with Kirk will get the deal done.
Given his play last season and the fact that he has kind of shaken the loser label that was unfairly attached to him, I think Seattle desperate for a QB that can keep their SB window open, will bite. If they trade Wilson for 2 first-rounders, they have next to nothing to compete with an aging roster (KJ Wright, Wagner, etc). With Cousins they get a 4500 yard QB and an open window, even if it is a step back (top 3 QB - Top 8-10)
I agree with Kapp - that would be a great trade for the Vikes if they could pull it off. It's getting real value at QB in Wilson without giving up the farm to do it.

But I don't see how Seattle would demand less than a 1st for Wilson and probably much more, which I think some team would be more than willing to give up.
A first for Wilson is worth it. We gave up a 2nd for a 6 week rental.
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Re: Next OC for the Vikings?

Post by YikesVikes » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:09 am

RandyMoss84 wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:49 pm
VikingLord wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:03 pm


That's a great point, and one I won't argue with.

I'm a big believer in doing what has proven to work and Spielman went into uncharted territory with the Cousins contract.

But I don't think it is necessarily fatal to the Vikings' chances of winning a Superbowl with Cousins. It just shifts the burden of solving the issues in other areas of the team more to the draft and less to FA/trade. Spielman can still do it - he just needs to have some really good drafts. In particular, he needs to hit this upcoming draft out of the park.

Really wish he hadn't traded the 2nd rounder this year...
Speilman can still get the 2nd rounder back in the draft
By losing other picks?
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Re: Next OC for the Vikings?

Post by CharVike » Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:07 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:25 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:17 am


Passing DVOA 2020:
Russel 6th
Cousins 11th

Average Defensive DVOA faced:
Russel 5th
Cousins 25th

Wilson's total TDs 42
Cousins' 36

Wilson's total yards 4725
Cousins' 4421

Wins:
Wilson's 12
Cousins' 7

Offense's points scored per drive:
Wilson: 7th
Cousins: 10th

Every single metric has Wilson over Cousins by a significant margin and that is without the benefit of the most dynamic runner in football forcing defenses to try and stop him and not the QB. Oh, it is also against a top 5 defensive schedule versus the cream puffs the Vikings faced for the majority of the season.
Sorry man ... just occurred to me that my reply to your post probably looked like I was arguing with what you said. Actually I was agreeing with you. I'm guessing you knew that, but just making sure.

I'm wondering. Has any NFL quarterback besides Wilson ever led his team to the playoffs in each of his first nine seasons?

I can't find the answer, but if so, the list can't be long.

That, more than anything, is why I'd choose Russell Wilson over Kirk Cousins at twice the price (not literally ... figure of speech). But don't be offended, Cousins fans. I'd choose Russell Wilson over all but maybe two QBs in the NFL right now, and even those would be touch choices. The guy flat-out wins. We're talking 98 regular-season wins in 9 seasons, the most by any QB in NFL history. He's added 9 playoff wins, which means he's averaged just shy of 12 total wins per season since he entered the league. I've been at this Vikings fan thing for 52 years. I'd like to see us win the trophy ONCE in my freaking lifetime.
Wilson is a great QB I don't doubt that. The division he plays in has no HOF QB in it that he needs to contend with. One team just traded their guy because he couldn't do the job. The 49ers would like to dump their guy because they know he isn't good enough. Wilson is the top dog. If he was in our division he would need to beat a HOF QB Rodgers year in and year out. He's not doing that. Two years ago Rodgers in the playoffs wiped him away like a fly on the table. He's a step behind him. This Packer team has had back to back HOF QBs. That's a big problem that we face. Wilson isn't better than Rodgers IMO he does nothing to help us. Our D needs to get after Rodgers. Like all QBs he's struggles when you get after him. Beyond that Wilson thinks his OL blows. He wouldn't have the stats behind our OL because it's much worse than the one he's got now. Comparing players across division is impossible because they play different opponents. The Rams have a great D until Rodgers beat them like a pulp. Donald was in tears on the sidelines. He never witnessed that type of play including Wilson.
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Re: Next OC for the Vikings?

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:44 pm

CharVike wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:07 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:25 am

Sorry man ... just occurred to me that my reply to your post probably looked like I was arguing with what you said. Actually I was agreeing with you. I'm guessing you knew that, but just making sure.

I'm wondering. Has any NFL quarterback besides Wilson ever led his team to the playoffs in each of his first nine seasons?

I can't find the answer, but if so, the list can't be long.

That, more than anything, is why I'd choose Russell Wilson over Kirk Cousins at twice the price (not literally ... figure of speech). But don't be offended, Cousins fans. I'd choose Russell Wilson over all but maybe two QBs in the NFL right now, and even those would be touch choices. The guy flat-out wins. We're talking 98 regular-season wins in 9 seasons, the most by any QB in NFL history. He's added 9 playoff wins, which means he's averaged just shy of 12 total wins per season since he entered the league. I've been at this Vikings fan thing for 52 years. I'd like to see us win the trophy ONCE in my freaking lifetime.
Wilson is a great QB I don't doubt that. The division he plays in has no HOF QB in it that he needs to contend with. One team just traded their guy because he couldn't do the job. The 49ers would like to dump their guy because they know he isn't good enough. Wilson is the top dog. If he was in our division he would need to beat a HOF QB Rodgers year in and year out. He's not doing that. Two years ago Rodgers in the playoffs wiped him away like a fly on the table. He's a step behind him. This Packer team has had back to back HOF QBs. That's a big problem that we face. Wilson isn't better than Rodgers IMO he does nothing to help us. Our D needs to get after Rodgers. Like all QBs he's struggles when you get after him. Beyond that Wilson thinks his OL blows. He wouldn't have the stats behind our OL because it's much worse than the one he's got now. Comparing players across division is impossible because they play different opponents. The Rams have a great D until Rodgers beat them like a pulp. Donald was in tears on the sidelines. He never witnessed that type of play including Wilson.
Our D needs to get after Rodgers, yet you then go on to tell us how Rodgers torched the best D in the NFL last season. Arguably the best pass rush in football, best pass rusher in football, and they still got torched? Seems like that isn't the key to beating Rodgers...
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Re: Next OC for the Vikings?

Post by CharVike » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:36 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:44 pm
CharVike wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:07 pm

Wilson is a great QB I don't doubt that. The division he plays in has no HOF QB in it that he needs to contend with. One team just traded their guy because he couldn't do the job. The 49ers would like to dump their guy because they know he isn't good enough. Wilson is the top dog. If he was in our division he would need to beat a HOF QB Rodgers year in and year out. He's not doing that. Two years ago Rodgers in the playoffs wiped him away like a fly on the table. He's a step behind him. This Packer team has had back to back HOF QBs. That's a big problem that we face. Wilson isn't better than Rodgers IMO he does nothing to help us. Our D needs to get after Rodgers. Like all QBs he's struggles when you get after him. Beyond that Wilson thinks his OL blows. He wouldn't have the stats behind our OL because it's much worse than the one he's got now. Comparing players across division is impossible because they play different opponents. The Rams have a great D until Rodgers beat them like a pulp. Donald was in tears on the sidelines. He never witnessed that type of play including Wilson.
Our D needs to get after Rodgers, yet you then go on to tell us how Rodgers torched the best D in the NFL last season. Arguably the best pass rush in football, best pass rusher in football, and they still got torched? Seems like that isn't the key to beating Rodgers...
The Rams had a grand total of zero sacks. Zero. They didn't show up. They didn't get after him at all and paid the price. The Bucs got after him with 5 sacks and at that point turn out the lights the party is over. That's how you slow all QBs. That's why the Pack are trying to revamp the No 2 OL in the NFL. That started with the release of their center. But that Ram team is very good they have a balanced squad. They had to fight like dogs to make the tournament and the 2nd road game in a row against a much better QB was too much. They ran out of gas. But they did make the move to upgrade their QB maybe that will help.
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Re: Next OC for the Vikings?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:07 pm

CharVike wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:07 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:25 am

Sorry man ... just occurred to me that my reply to your post probably looked like I was arguing with what you said. Actually I was agreeing with you. I'm guessing you knew that, but just making sure.

I'm wondering. Has any NFL quarterback besides Wilson ever led his team to the playoffs in each of his first nine seasons?

I can't find the answer, but if so, the list can't be long.

That, more than anything, is why I'd choose Russell Wilson over Kirk Cousins at twice the price (not literally ... figure of speech). But don't be offended, Cousins fans. I'd choose Russell Wilson over all but maybe two QBs in the NFL right now, and even those would be touch choices. The guy flat-out wins. We're talking 98 regular-season wins in 9 seasons, the most by any QB in NFL history. He's added 9 playoff wins, which means he's averaged just shy of 12 total wins per season since he entered the league. I've been at this Vikings fan thing for 52 years. I'd like to see us win the trophy ONCE in my freaking lifetime.
Wilson is a great QB I don't doubt that. The division he plays in has no HOF QB in it that he needs to contend with. One team just traded their guy because he couldn't do the job. The 49ers would like to dump their guy because they know he isn't good enough. Wilson is the top dog. If he was in our division he would need to beat a HOF QB Rodgers year in and year out. He's not doing that. Two years ago Rodgers in the playoffs wiped him away like a fly on the table. He's a step behind him. This Packer team has had back to back HOF QBs. That's a big problem that we face. Wilson isn't better than Rodgers IMO he does nothing to help us. Our D needs to get after Rodgers. Like all QBs he's struggles when you get after him. Beyond that Wilson thinks his OL blows. He wouldn't have the stats behind our OL because it's much worse than the one he's got now. Comparing players across division is impossible because they play different opponents. The Rams have a great D until Rodgers beat them like a pulp. Donald was in tears on the sidelines. He never witnessed that type of play including Wilson.
Y'know, this is a fun board where we all can share opinions. So it's all good. But man, it sure helps your cause when you take the time to look something up.

Rodgers and Wilson have squared off 8 times, including playoffs. They've each won four. Neither has won a game on the road. They're both 4-0 at home, and 0-4 on the road.

Rodgers wipes Wilson away like a fly on the table? Um, not exactly.

Where you are correct is that Seattle's O-line was better than ours in 2020. But as the 16th-ranked pass-blocking O-line, they weren't exactly stellar. And that's actually the BEST they've ever ranked in Wilson's 9 years. Meanwhile, Green Bay consistently ranks top-5 in O-line play.

When it's all said and done, for all Aaron Rodgers' accolades, he's won a single Super Bowl, and that's the only one he's ever been to. Wilson has won as many, and he's been to two.

Finally, Aaron Donald was on the sidelines because he was hurt. Maybe, just maybe Rodgers had such a great day because he didn't have to deal with Aaron Donald at full strength.
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CharVike
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Re: Next OC for the Vikings?

Post by CharVike » Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:43 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:07 pm
CharVike wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:07 pm

Wilson is a great QB I don't doubt that. The division he plays in has no HOF QB in it that he needs to contend with. One team just traded their guy because he couldn't do the job. The 49ers would like to dump their guy because they know he isn't good enough. Wilson is the top dog. If he was in our division he would need to beat a HOF QB Rodgers year in and year out. He's not doing that. Two years ago Rodgers in the playoffs wiped him away like a fly on the table. He's a step behind him. This Packer team has had back to back HOF QBs. That's a big problem that we face. Wilson isn't better than Rodgers IMO he does nothing to help us. Our D needs to get after Rodgers. Like all QBs he's struggles when you get after him. Beyond that Wilson thinks his OL blows. He wouldn't have the stats behind our OL because it's much worse than the one he's got now. Comparing players across division is impossible because they play different opponents. The Rams have a great D until Rodgers beat them like a pulp. Donald was in tears on the sidelines. He never witnessed that type of play including Wilson.
Y'know, this is a fun board where we all can share opinions. So it's all good. But man, it sure helps your cause when you take the time to look something up.

Rodgers and Wilson have squared off 8 times, including playoffs. They've each won four. Neither has won a game on the road. They're both 4-0 at home, and 0-4 on the road.

Rodgers wipes Wilson away like a fly on the table? Um, not exactly.

Where you are correct is that Seattle's O-line was better than ours in 2020. But as the 16th-ranked pass-blocking O-line, they weren't exactly stellar. And that's actually the BEST they've ever ranked in Wilson's 9 years. Meanwhile, Green Bay consistently ranks top-5 in O-line play.

When it's all said and done, for all Aaron Rodgers' accolades, he's won a single Super Bowl, and that's the only one he's ever been to. Wilson has won as many, and he's been to two.

Finally, Aaron Donald was on the sidelines because he was hurt. Maybe, just maybe Rodgers had such a great day because he didn't have to deal with Aaron Donald at full strength.
I stated two years ago in the playoffs. I never posted anything about lifetime records. I also said the Rams have a great team but they looked to be worn out after the playoff push and second road playoff game in a row. They have a top D. They didn't get after Rodgers like I expected that game. That's all. The Packers have wasted Rodgers. Overall that team isn't very good without him. He carries that team. Without him they blow. When he didn't play we won the division with a stiff backup QB. If Rodgers gets hurt this year we will win that division. If he plays they will win it. I wish Rodgers would quite because he gives that team a huge advantage. But he has said he will play until age 45. He can be beat if you get after him. The 49ers and Bucs showed that. Teams that don't bring pressure will get beat. The Rams showed that. He's a HOF player. Wilson won a Super Bowl as a rookie and maybe that has never happened. But he was carried there by one of the best defenses ever. That's my opinion nothing more.
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StumpHunter
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Re: Next OC for the Vikings?

Post by StumpHunter » Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:10 am

CharVike wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:43 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:07 pm

Y'know, this is a fun board where we all can share opinions. So it's all good. But man, it sure helps your cause when you take the time to look something up.

Rodgers and Wilson have squared off 8 times, including playoffs. They've each won four. Neither has won a game on the road. They're both 4-0 at home, and 0-4 on the road.

Rodgers wipes Wilson away like a fly on the table? Um, not exactly.

Where you are correct is that Seattle's O-line was better than ours in 2020. But as the 16th-ranked pass-blocking O-line, they weren't exactly stellar. And that's actually the BEST they've ever ranked in Wilson's 9 years. Meanwhile, Green Bay consistently ranks top-5 in O-line play.

When it's all said and done, for all Aaron Rodgers' accolades, he's won a single Super Bowl, and that's the only one he's ever been to. Wilson has won as many, and he's been to two.

Finally, Aaron Donald was on the sidelines because he was hurt. Maybe, just maybe Rodgers had such a great day because he didn't have to deal with Aaron Donald at full strength.
I stated two years ago in the playoffs. I never posted anything about lifetime records. I also said the Rams have a great team but they looked to be worn out after the playoff push and second road playoff game in a row. They have a top D. They didn't get after Rodgers like I expected that game. That's all. The Packers have wasted Rodgers. Overall that team isn't very good without him. He carries that team. Without him they blow. When he didn't play we won the division with a stiff backup QB. If Rodgers gets hurt this year we will win that division. If he plays they will win it. I wish Rodgers would quite because he gives that team a huge advantage. But he has said he will play until age 45. He can be beat if you get after him. The 49ers and Bucs showed that. Teams that don't bring pressure will get beat. The Rams showed that. He's a HOF player. Wilson won a Super Bowl as a rookie and maybe that has never happened. But he was carried there by one of the best defenses ever. That's my opinion nothing more.
Wilson didn't win the SB as a rookie.

The difference in pressures per drop back between what the Rams did to Rodgers and the Bucs was a little over 1. 1 more pressure in that Rams game and they have almost the same pressure rate as the Bucs had on Rodgers and neither of those teams were able to consistently pressure Rodgers.

Without Wilson the Seahawks are a worse team than the Packers would be without Rodgers. He makes that team competitive in a tougher division than the one Rodgers plays in. If he comes to the Bears, and I think it is unlikely he does, the Vikings will be competing with Detroit for 3rd place for the next 2 or 3 seasons until Rodgers starts to show his age.
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