Cleveland Browns

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Mothman
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Re: Cleveland Browns

Post by Mothman » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:16 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:34 pm
RandyMoss84 wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:35 am


Vikings should have fired Zimmer and hired Stefanski :wallbang:
Has Stefanski won a Superbowl? Did I miss that?

I thought the criticism of Zimmer here was that his teams make the playoffs every other year and haven't won a Superbowl yet
To be more precise: I think the criticism is they don't appear capable of winning a Super Bowl.
But come on - neither the Bills nor the Browns with their current coaching staffs have done anything more than Zimmer has achieved in his time as the Vikings head coach.
The Bills just did: they made the playoffs in back-to-back seasons.
It's a little early (and unjustified) to start rending our hair and tearing at the dirt in lament at the coaches the Vikings have allowed to advance their careers elsewhere.
It's early when it comes to Stefanski (at least by a few weeks*) but Dungy, Billick and Tomlin already have Super Bowl rings. :v):

I suppose Pete Carroll could be included on that list too since he's a former Vikes assistant who's won the SB as a head coach. Am I forgetting anybody?

* I don't actually expect the Browns to win it all this season.
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Re: Cleveland Browns

Post by S197 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:14 pm

Mothman wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:16 pm
I suppose Pete Carroll could be included on that list too since he's a former Vikes assistant who's won the SB as a head coach. Am I forgetting anybody?
I would say the two big ones are Mike Tomlin and Brian Billick.
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Re: Cleveland Browns

Post by RandyMoss84 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:48 pm

Mothman wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:16 pm
VikingLord wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:34 pm


Has Stefanski won a Superbowl? Did I miss that?

I thought the criticism of Zimmer here was that his teams make the playoffs every other year and haven't won a Superbowl yet
To be more precise: I think the criticism is they don't appear capable of winning a Super Bowl.
But come on - neither the Bills nor the Browns with their current coaching staffs have done anything more than Zimmer has achieved in his time as the Vikings head coach.
The Bills just did: they made the playoffs in back-to-back seasons.
It's a little early (and unjustified) to start rending our hair and tearing at the dirt in lament at the coaches the Vikings have allowed to advance their careers elsewhere.
It's early when it comes to Stefanski (at least by a few weeks*) but Dungy, Billick and Tomlin already have Super Bowl rings. :v):

I suppose Pete Carroll could be included on that list too since he's a former Vikes assistant who's won the SB as a head coach. Am I forgetting anybody?

* I don't actually expect the Browns to win it all this season.
Pete Carroll is a good one but Vikings hired Jerry Burns who is an above average coach
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Re: Cleveland Browns

Post by Mothman » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:53 pm

S197 wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:14 pm
Mothman wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:16 pm
I suppose Pete Carroll could be included on that list too since he's a former Vikes assistant who's won the SB as a head coach. Am I forgetting anybody?
I would say the two big ones are Mike Tomlin and Brian Billick.
I'd include Tony Dungy too and make it a "big 3" since all 3 were Vikings coordinators and they all went on to SB-level success with other teams. He and Tomlin are both among the 25 winningest coaches of all time now.
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Re: Cleveland Browns

Post by VikingLord » Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:10 pm

Mothman wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:16 pm
To be more precise: I think the criticism is they don't appear capable of winning a Super Bowl.
Not capable of?

Why is Zimmer not capable of that?

I'm still not in agreement with the statement about Stefanski as compared to Zimmer.
Mothman wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:16 pm
The Bills just did: they made the playoffs in back-to-back seasons.
Fair enough.
Mothman wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:16 pm
It's early when it comes to Stefanski (at least by a few weeks*) but Dungy, Billick and Tomlin already have Super Bowl rings. :v):

I suppose Pete Carroll could be included on that list too since he's a former Vikes assistant who's won the SB as a head coach. Am I forgetting anybody?

* I don't actually expect the Browns to win it all this season.
How far back do you want to go? I was referring to recent history under Mike Zimmer. Dungy, Billick and Tomlin never coached at Minnesota under Mike Zimmer. Maybe Tomlin was here when Spielman was GM. I honestly don't remember, but once again I'm focused on the coaches that have been at Minnesota under Zimmer, and as far I remember, none of them have done better after leaving Minnesota.

With that said, there might be a more general point you're making that Minnesota has allowed talented coaches to leave as a general issue. All I can say to that is that people make decisions using the best information they have at the time they make them. They might be judged on those decisions in hindsight, but if it was obvious that any of those listed coaches were Superbowl winners I doubt the Vikings would have let them walk.
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Re: Cleveland Browns

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:17 pm

VikeFanInEagleLand wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:31 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:20 pm

Browns fans wish Sendejo WASN'T on the Browns. PFF's 62 out of 63 qualifying graded safeties.
How many Browns fans did you poll to come to that conclusion?
Here is an article calling for him to get benched 3 weeks into the season:
https://dawgpounddaily.com/2020/10/01/c ... o-benched/


Here is a petition to get Sendejo out of Cleveland with almost 2.5k names on it
https://www.change.org/p/nfl-get-andrew ... -cleveland

They hate him.
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Re: Cleveland Browns

Post by Mothman » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:25 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:10 pm
Not capable of?

Why is Zimmer not capable of that?
For all the reasons I've been expressing for several years now and all the reasons it hasn't happened over the past 7 years. I don't think he and Spielman, together, build teams strong enough to do it. As I've said before, nothing in their history, other than the ring Zimmer got as a DB coach in Dallas, suggests they're capable of building a Super Bowl winner. At this point, I just don't see any reason other than the eternal hope of dedicated Vikings fans to believe a Zimmer/Spielman-built team could win 3-4 straight postseason games. They'd likely run into a team with comparable-to-superior talent and better coaching and get blasted like they did in 2017 and 2019.

It's obviously just my opinion but I think there's a point where it becomes clear that a team will need to look elsewhere for "the right stuff" and the Vikings are past that point. I said the same thing about Green and Childress when it became clear to me that their ceiling wasn't high enough.
How far back do you want to go? I was referring to recent history under Mike Zimmer. Dungy, Billick and Tomlin never coached at Minnesota under Mike Zimmer. Maybe Tomlin was here when Spielman was GM. I honestly don't remember, but once again I'm focused on the coaches that have been at Minnesota under Zimmer, and as far I remember, none of them have done better after leaving Minnesota.
I think Stefanski is the first Zimmer assistant to leave and get a head-coaching job, isn't he? He could do better by winning next week but I think it's unlikely the Browns will go into KC and win. If they do, it will be a big upset!
With that said, there might be a more general point you're making that Minnesota has allowed talented coaches to leave as a general issue.
I think it's the point StanM was making upthread when he raised the subject. He wrote that "We have a knack for letting the best coaching prospects walk. That goes back decades." I was just reinforcing his point with examples.
All I can say to that is that people make decisions using the best information they have at the time they make them. They might be judged on those decisions in hindsight, but if it was obvious that any of those listed coaches were Superbowl winners I doubt the Vikings would have let them walk.
I agree and in each case, I think Vikings ownership felt they had their head coach in place already.
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Re: Cleveland Browns

Post by VikingPaul73 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:33 pm

S197 wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:14 pm
Mothman wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:16 pm
I suppose Pete Carroll could be included on that list too since he's a former Vikes assistant who's won the SB as a head coach. Am I forgetting anybody?
I would say the two big ones are Mike Tomlin and Brian Billick.
Tony Dungy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Cleveland Browns

Post by S197 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:27 pm

Ah right, I forgot about Dungy.

Also, I think Shurmur was the first coordinator under Zimmer to get a HC gig.
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Re: Cleveland Browns

Post by RandyMoss84 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:36 pm

S197 wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:27 pm
Ah right, I forgot about Dungy.

Also, I think Shurmur was the first coordinator under Zimmer to get a HC gig.
I feel bad for Shurmur because he got hired when Browns and Giants had no talent and got fired in only 2 years and funny enough, Shurmur went 9-23 with Browns and Giants, if Browns and Giants have talent then I think Shurmur would have a better record
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Re: Cleveland Browns

Post by StanM » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:34 am

Someone asked how far back we want to go regarding letting go of coaching prospects. I don’t know about anyone else but my perspective goes back to game #1 in 1961. Is that far enough for my opinion to have at least some merit?
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Re: Cleveland Browns

Post by VikingLord » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:38 pm

StanM wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:34 am
Someone asked how far back we want to go regarding letting go of coaching prospects. I don’t know about anyone else but my perspective goes back to game #1 in 1961. Is that far enough for my opinion to have at least some merit?
Your opinion has merit of course.

I just assumed we were focused on the Spielman/Zimmer era in this thread.

I haven't been a Vikings fan since 1961, but I've been a fan long enough to understand your perspective and frustration.
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Re: Cleveland Browns

Post by VikingLord » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:39 pm

Mothman wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:25 pm
I agree and in each case, I think Vikings ownership felt they had their head coach in place already.
So I asked Stumphunter this question and I'd like to ask you. Likewise, I apologize if you already threw some names out as I've been more focused on researching the upcoming draft, but do you have any names that would give you reason for optimism if Spielman and/or Zimmer were replaced this offseason?
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Re: Cleveland Browns

Post by 808vikingsfan » Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:58 pm

Browns Chiefs game was one of the best games I've seen in a while. Watching all the other games as well, the Vikings are not, and have not recently been in the same league as these teams, maybe except for the 2017 team. I vote to blow up the entire team (gm, coach, QB) and start over.

So glad the Saints are out. Got mad respect for Rodgers and Brady. Rodgers is on another level. Brady is proving Bill needed him more. Also shows what a change in QB can do to a team. So happy for Diggs. I'm glad he's in Buffalo, he deserves to play with a QB like Allen. I wish the Vikings had a coach like Reid. That 4th down play with Henne was unbelievable . Balls.

It's going to be fun week.
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Re: Cleveland Browns

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:31 pm

808vikingsfan wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:58 pm
Browns Chiefs game was one of the best games I've seen in a while. Watching all the other games as well, the Vikings are not, and have not recently been in the same league as these teams, maybe except for the 2017 team. I vote to blow up the entire team (gm, coach, QB) and start over.

So glad the Saints are out. Got mad respect for Rodgers and Brady. Rodgers is on another level. Brady is proving Bill needed him more. Also shows what a change in QB can do to a team. So happy for Diggs. I'm glad he's in Buffalo, he deserves to play with a QB like Allen. I wish the Vikings had a coach like Reid. That 4th down play with Henne was unbelievable . Balls.

It's going to be fun week.
The fourth-down call was vintage Reid, but Henne won the game on the play before when he scrambled on 3rd and 14. That was incredible. Truly was a great football game.

I'm also glad the Saints are out, but I couldn't care less about Brady. I'm tired of him, and I'm tired of Rodgers. Too bad they can't both lose.

Go Bills, I guess. If we can't win it all, I'd rather some other long-suffering fans get a title than any of the other three.
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