YikesVikes wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:57 pm
His rookie season isnt better than Moss' He didn't even hit double digit TDs. Moss had 17. No one would consider this season better. Especially since Moss played in an era where the ball wasn't toss as much.
Dude you're splitting hairs at this point. In terms of yardage, yes it is indeed the best rookie WR season ever to date. Some will say Moss due to TDs, some will say Jefferson due to yardage, some will say Boldin due to catches. They all had great rookie seasons and all belong in the conversation of best rookie WR season ever.
When you are looking over the draft guys you aren't considering where they were drafted. A guy drafted #1 has a different expectation than a guy drafted #31. Lets take a look at that list when we consider where they were drafted.
I am considering where they were drafted. I know where they were drafted. If Spielman drafts a player at 14 and that player is good but not great, that in no way, shape or form means they are a bust. Not really sure where you're getting that logic from. A bust is someone like Laquon Treadwell that literally did nothing in his time here and was a top pick.
2020- Jefferson and Gladney - So far so good given draft position.
Right, if anyone was to complain about this years draft then I really dont know what to tell you.
2019- Bradbury - Not a bust. Not looking like the 18th best guy but not a bust. A disappointment so far.
Ok so Bradbury is a disappointment for being drafted 18th because he's not the 18th best guy or better? Again, I'm not sure where you're getting this logic. The draft is an absolute crapshoot. To try and ding the GM because he didnt land the 18th best guy or better, but still landed a solid contributor, is a very weak, weak argument. Please name me a GM that is landing the best available pick in the first round on a consistent basis and that player ends up out performing his draft position? It's almost kind of laughable that this is the logic you're trying to spit to me right now, I'm not going to lie man.
2018- Hughes - Bust. He's simply not good injuries or not.
2016- Treadwell - Bust
Yup these are the two I gave you.
Now here's where you go to some extraordinary lengths and it gets realllllll interesting....
2015- Waynes - Bust - Drafted 11th overall. Has 1 season with 3 ints. The 11th best player should be a game changer. He simple is average at best.
hmm, well since he has 1 season with 3 ints that makes him a bust? But let me guess, you think Marcus Peters was and he's a game changer right? Because he has so many INTs? Is that your benchmark? Because what you might not know is that Marcus Peters has given up more yards and TDs than any CB in the NFL since he was drafted. So yeah, the picks are cool and all but when you're nearly 1:1 in TDs given up vs. INTs, that really doesnt benefit you or your team.
The Waynes argument with Vikings fans is very similar to the Cousins one. What I mean is Waynes was a bust in fans' eyes because he struggled in the first year or two of his career (which rightfully so being a rookie) yet he never once graded worse than a 63.4 overall. Same deal with Cousins when he got here in 2018 and to this day it will forever be held over their head. I mean we can use Marcus Peters as a benchmark when talking Waynes (even though there is much more to playing corner than just picks....ask one of the 2 teams that let him go). Or Kyle Fuller since you said Barr isnt even in the same stratosphere as Fuller below.
Waynes has never had a grade below 63.4 in his entire career. Both Peters and Fuller have twice. No less like I said above, Peters has given up more TDs than any CB in that time and it's really not even close. And Fuller has been targeted about 80 more times than Waynes has and 100 more times than Peters. For someone that's supposedly light years better than someone like Anthony Barr, how is he being targeted 323 times over that span? Clearly QBs arent scared of him. But in regards to Waynes, I would say he was slightly above average in coverage and elite vs. the run. Something else you also fail to mention. You want to hold tackle numbers over Barr's head, yet no mention of Waynes tackling ability?
2014- Barr - Bust. Drafted 9th overrall. 9th!!!!! Some guys drafted after him regardless of position
Donald, Fuller, OBJ, Mosley, Zack Martain, Cooks, Lawrence. Barr isn't in any of those guys stratosphere. He is an average LB who only saving grace is pressures, which he gets due to confusion due to the scheme and not individual talent. He has been out performed by Wilson 2 years now. Despite all of our blitzing he has like 15 career sacks. He has never had more than 80 tackles in a season and has 2 career ints. He has only forced 8 fumbles in his 6 (took this year out) year career. He is invisible. In 15 games this season Wilson has 122 tackles. Last year in 6 game started he had 62 tackles. Barr is a bust. We can put almost any decent LB in there and replace him.
ugh where to start....#1- Brandon Cooks has been on 4 different teams since 2014. For a guy that you claim to be so great, he's changed homes quite a bit in that time span. #2- I'd have to look it up but I'd be willing to bet that Fuller has been targeted more than any other CB in that span. 323 targets is insane. Nobody is shying away from him, he's not a shutdown type CB but somehow Anthony Barr doesnt belong in the same stratosphere? Come on....
No less some statistics that actually carry some weight....
After the 2018 season Barr was:
2nd best LB in yards allowed per coverage snap,
3rd best LB in targets per coverage snap,
3rd best LB in catches allowed per coverage snap,
1st best LB in pass rushing productivity, and
15th best LB in run defense grade.
.....and you're calling him a bust
And my second point I wanted to make.....Eric Wilson. Everyone drools over Wilson because of his coverage skills. However, what people dont realize is that he's downright terrible vs. the run. He's constantly getting washed out of his gap and led the Vikings in missed tackles by a wide margin. He was a bottom 5 run defender according to PFF this year. So saying how many tackles he has is a pretty weak stat if you ask me. That doesnt tell the whole story. Not even close.
And also, the depth discussion at LB...going into this year Wilson WAS a depth piece. Gedeon was the starter at WLB but didnt ended up getting hurt this year. And either way, that WLB position in Zims defense hardly plays. Mainly on running downs. Hence why Wilson couldnt ever beat out Gedeon, because WIlson was terrible against the run and Gedeon always did his job for the most part.
Either way, the main point is, Anthony Barr is not a bust. Not even close. That's just silly to even think that.