Vikings have #14 pick

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
S197
Fenrir
Posts: 12469
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Hawaii
x 551

Re: Vikings have #14 pick

Post by S197 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:10 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:56 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:34 am

This is exactly what I've been saying.

Like it or not, the powers-that-be have decided that Kirk Cousins is their man. Forget whether you or I agree with this, or even that it's Kirk Cousins. Think of it as Frankie Franchise, BMOC, the guy the Vikings want under center until he retires. If you have your guy, do you spend draft capital on a quarterback at 14? Of course not.

Put another way, let's say Kansas City or Buffalo have the 14th pick. Would they be smart to draft a QB? Not even close. That's why pundits viewed Green Bay's drafting of Jordan Love with a massive head tilt. It made no sense then, and it makes no sense now. I mean, what if the Rams put Jalen Ramsey on Davonte Adams this weekend, and Ramsey shuts Adams down and the Packers lose. Think Packer fan won't be ripping management for drafting Love, while failing to get Rodgers another receiver in a draft rich with receivers?

Now don't twist my words. I'm not comparing Kirk Cousins to Aaron Rodgers, Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes. What I'm saying is that the situations are similar. Even if the Vikings are misguided, they see Kirk Cousins as their franchise quarterback, just as the Chiefs view Mahomes as theirs. And with that being the case, we need to stop talking about the Vikings using the 14th pick on a quarterback ... cuz it AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

Every year I make the same argument. Every year it falls on deaf ears.
The Chiefs had an expensive QB locked up when they traded 2 1sts for Mahomes, so it is not unheard of. Would Rick ever do that though? Probably not.

What gives me hope is that 2 year extensions are unheard of for franchise QBs under the age of 35. What makes me worried is that the only reason it was 2 years is because Kirk wanted to make bank again in 2023.
This is my biggest worry. His contact is unavoidable at this point but I'm really worried they extend him to get out of the horrible cap predicament. And by get out I mean kick it down the road and make it worse.

And I 100% believe the contract was short because Cousins wanted to double dip. Maybe triple dip if management allows it. I hope at minimum they at least wait for next season to be over before beginning negotiations.
0 x

User avatar
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8423
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 1026

Re: Vikings have #14 pick

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:07 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:52 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:32 am
Here's a trade proposal.

Spielman does his thing and trades back for more picks. Maybe he can coax Jacksonville, which is projected to pick at 25 with a pick acquired from the Rams, to trade their picks at 25 and 33 for our picks at 14 and 78 (one of our 3rd rounders). That's an even swap of 1,300 draft points and could be a win for both sides.

Jacksonville would move up a projected 11 spots in the first, which they could use to get either a weapon (Ja'Marr Chase, DeVonta Smith, Jaylen Waddle) or O-line protection for Trevor Lawrence. They would lose one of their two second-rounders, but would gain a third-rounder, giving them two picks in the top 14 of the third.

Meanwhile, with either 25 or 33, the Vikings could pick someone like Daviyon Nixon from Iowa to play 3-tech alongside Michael Pierce. Zimmer's defense is predicated on penetration from the inside, and Nixon is a penetration machine, with 5.5 sacks and 13.5 TFL in 8 games this season. They could also take an offensive tackle (keeping Cleveland at guard) or pick somebody like Alijah Vera-Tucker from USC, who can play either guard or tackle (projected as a guard in the NFL) and is considered an excellent pass blocker, something we desperately need on the interior.

If I were Spielman, I would not stand pat at 14. We have all the skill players we need. Edge rusher is a position of need, but Gregory Rousseau out of Miami is the top pick there, but he didn't play at all in 2020, and has only one year IN HIS LIFE as a defensive end. That was 2019, when he had an amazing 15.5 sacks, but seriously ... one year? He's also not good against the run, which will not sit well with Zimmer. It's not a good year for rush ends, so to me, this is the draft to move back.

Thoughts?
I LOVE IT!

Seriously, would be an awesome trade for the Vikings if it played out the way you described.

Here's another possible wrinkle to throw into that...

What if Kyle Trask is sitting there at #25? Do you take him?

The more I learn about the guy, the more convinced I am that he's going to have an amazing NFL career for the team that drafts him. He isn't the flashy QB prospect that many of his contemporaries are and have been coming out. But look at his stats, his development and progression, his leadership qualities, ability to read the field, move in the pocket to buy time, accuracy, etc., and Trask emerges as a guy who is exactly what you want in your starting QB at the pro level.

And he's likely to fall a bit because there are enough of the flashy QBs in this upcoming draft to push him down the board. I'd say the odds he's around at #25 are pretty small, but there is still a decent chance he'll last that long.

In your scenario, even if the Vikings go with Trask at #25 they can still acquire OL/DL help in rounds 2 and 3.

If Spielman can't trade down I'd still be happy if he took Trask at #14. Not sure Trask will even last that long but the logic of the move still makes sense to me. Yes, there are greater immediate needs perhaps along the DL and OL, but as so many on this board have said, if you identify a possible franchise QB you do what you have to do to acquire that guy. IMHO, Trask is going to be a franchise QB for someone. Might as well be the Vikings.
Tough call on Trask.

The draft profiles project him as:
a) Extremely intelligent
b) Attacks with a plan
c) A good arm ... can throw to all three levels
d) At his best when on schedule where he can grip it and rip it
e) Not athletic enough to consistently make plays off-script

Honestly, that sounds a lot like one Kirk David Cousins.

Of course, that doesn't take into account the fact that he's probably not wound tight as a drum, and I'm guessing he doesn't plan his day on an Excel spreadsheet in 10-minute increments. One thing for sure, though. I'd rather the Vikings take Trask than Justin Fields. There's just something about Ohio State quarterbacks that I don't trust.

I guess the Vikings would have to be really, really sure about Trask. Again, THEY believe they already have their franchise quarterback. You're a BPA guy. I am, too. It just so happens that our needs match the BPAs at 25 and 33. Trask may be the BPA at 25. Not convinced of that, but I could be persuaded. But I don't believe he's BPA at 14. That's just me. Others may disagree.

My money would still be on Nixon at 25. It's a case of BPA matching our huge, huge need at D-line. On the other hand, the offense is pretty darned solid, minus some interior pass blocking issues. We ended up fourth in the league in total yards, 11th in points, 5th in rushing, 14th in passing. The Vikings used to brag about Zimmer's record when the team scored at least 21 points. This year, we lost SEVEN TIMES when the team scored at least that many. We need an infusion of talent on defense. Get Hunter and Pierce back on the line and team them with Nixon, and the D-line is instantly 200% better. Draft for need along the O-line at 33, and you probably improve the team immensely. With Trask, you don't improve the team until at least Year 3, when Cousins' contract expires.

I guess I'm just too impatient.
0 x
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.

User avatar
VikingLord
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6828
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:12 pm
Location: The Land of the Ice and Snow
x 385

Re: Vikings have #14 pick

Post by VikingLord » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:23 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:07 pm
We need an infusion of talent on defense. Get Hunter and Pierce back on the line and team them with Nixon, and the D-line is instantly 200% better. Draft for need along the O-line at 33, and you probably improve the team immensely. With Trask, you don't improve the team until at least Year 3, when Cousins' contract expires.

I guess I'm just too impatient.
Would you consider a kicker at #14...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Sorry, but I just had this mental image pop into my head of the Vikings not using their first pick on a CB, but instead using it on a kicker and what kind of response that would produce on this board.

I really like the highlights I watched on Nixon. The guy kind of reminds me of John Randle in terms of how active and relentless he is. Of course, I remind myself those are just highlights and might not tell the whole story, but he seems to be the type of player likely to thrive as a pro.

I also understand the hesitancy with Trask, but that is exactly why I expect him to slide a bit and why he's not in that top group of QBs right now. I just think if you likewise look at the season he put up, the competition he played against, and those small details like his ability to move in the pocket and outstanding leadership and work ethic, I don't think he's exactly Kirk Cousins. He could turn out to be, of course, but I don't think Cousins moves all that well in the pocket, he struggles a bit with timing, and while he is accurate when he has time and a throwing window, he's not as accurate down field as Trask has been.

I realize it isn't much to go on, but I get this feeling that Trask is going to be the Aaron Rodgers of this draft class - the guy who slides into the back 3rd of the 1st round who ends up being the QB every team that could have taken him ends up kicking themselves for not taking him. The year Rodgers came out the Vikings passed twice on him because they had more pressing needs, and neither of the guys they chose to address those needs are even in the league anymore, much less had any real success, while Rodgers is likely to be the starting QB in yet another Superbowl for his team. I just hope that the Vikings think long and hard on things if Trask is still there when their pick comes up.
1 x

psjordan
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1662
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 8:01 am
x 64

Re: Vikings have #14 pick

Post by psjordan » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:31 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:34 am
Put another way, let's say Kansas City or Buffalo have the 14th pick. Would they be smart to draft a QB? Not even close. That's why pundits viewed Green Bay's drafting of Jordan Love with a massive head tilt. It made no sense then, and it makes no sense now … Even if the Vikings are misguided, they see Kirk Cousins as their franchise quarterback, just as the Chiefs view Mahomes as theirs. And with that being the case, we need to stop talking about the Vikings using the 14th pick on a quarterback ... cuz it AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.
Drafting or not drafting a first round QB is based on age and projection of what you have more than anything else. Absolutely the teams with older QB’s - even great ones - should be figuring out what their plan is. Of course the teams with the young studs won’t. I don’t think it’s “we have Cousins he’s our franchise so screw the QB position in the draft”. Not at all, that would be way too simplistic.
S197 wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:24 pm
You don't draft a guy at 14 to sit for two years while you pay someone $75M as your interim.
Why not? The 14th pick will sign about a $15M, four-year contract with a team option for a fifth year. If that mythical QB sits for two years while Cousins makes $75M, who cares? So while I am out here guaranteeing things, I’ll guarantee Cousins contract will not be a big part of this equation.

And I think drafting a QB (if the right guy is there) at #14 is definitely under serious discussion in our FO.

Our FO does not have some casual view of the potential players to be drafted, spend 6-7 hours eating wings and sifting through tape to make decisions. Trust me, they (for instance) have AT LEAST the next three years of incoming QB’s mapped out, with all possibilities attached (player soars, gets hurt, regresses, needs to work on A/B/C, etc.). I guarantee you they have them all ranked accordingly. In fact it’s possible it's on someone’s list to keep track of top seniors in High School and where they might commit.

If a QB who “fits the bill” (versus the next 2-3 years worth of QB’s potentially coming out, or the unlikely trade of a Sam Darnold type) is available at #14 in 2021, selecting QB is a distinct and real possibility. To think “Rick doesn’t draft QB’s so he won’t this year either” is not really a reasonable supposition. Rick doesn’t draft QB’s he doesn’t like (or value) at the pick we have in any given year. The right guy/right value comes along at the pick we have? Different story. Not saying they WILL pick a QB this draft, but if the cards fall then yes I can see it happening. Easily. And when I say "right guy", I'm talking in terms of THEIR evaluations, not mine or yours.

So now, in real life, and assuming we keep the #14 pick:

1) Do I see a QB falling to #14 that would be a realistic candidate that our FO is sold on? Nope. So I certainly do not see us picking a QB at #14. But it’s not for the knee-jerk reaction of “NO WAY RICK PICKS A QB HE HATES THEM!!”. It will simply be that whoever was available at #14 this year was not deemed #14 value and/or not head and shoulders above what the braintrust sees feasibly coming our way in the years ahead (according to their scorecard).

2) Do I think Rick will trade (generally, UP) to get his QB? Nope. I don’t think Rick has any “gamble” in him for trading up, for anything. Based on his record of (not) moving up, I’m assuming when discussions happen he offers list price and little to nothing more.

So I see us taking the best (maybe first?) CB available at #14, unless a gem at another position - like DL - falls to that spot. If we pick a CB, I say we go ahead and call Zim a 60% GM because that would be HIS pick, for sure.

We can argue all day and all night about their process and how they develop a scorecard on players, but to simply dismiss the consideration of a position like QB because we historically “don’t do that” is not realistic in my book.

The other area I think our FO has draft inadequacies is getting ready for any and all possibilities that unfold during the draft. I just don’t get the feeling we are prepared to respond to something strange happening.

But hey, on the bright side, Rick and Zim are not Tice and Brzezinski in 2005 using our two 1st round picks on Troy Williamson and Erasmus James … or in 2004 picking Kenechi Udeze with the #1 … or in 2003 completely whiffing on our #7 pick window, watching Leftwich and Jordan Gross get picked and then having to pick at #9 (worked out well though with Kevin Williams).

So yes, things could be worse!
0 x

User avatar
S197
Fenrir
Posts: 12469
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Hawaii
x 551

Re: Vikings have #14 pick

Post by S197 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:03 pm

If Rick and Zimmer are here, we're not taking a QB. I don't care if we trade up, stay pat, or trade down. It ain't happening. Never has, never will. I've already laid out why in multiple posts going all the way back to Favre. I'm not arguing this again.
2 x

User avatar
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8423
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 1026

Re: Vikings have #14 pick

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:37 am

psjordan wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:31 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:34 am
Put another way, let's say Kansas City or Buffalo have the 14th pick. Would they be smart to draft a QB? Not even close. That's why pundits viewed Green Bay's drafting of Jordan Love with a massive head tilt. It made no sense then, and it makes no sense now … Even if the Vikings are misguided, they see Kirk Cousins as their franchise quarterback, just as the Chiefs view Mahomes as theirs. And with that being the case, we need to stop talking about the Vikings using the 14th pick on a quarterback ... cuz it AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.
Drafting or not drafting a first round QB is based on age and projection of what you have more than anything else. Absolutely the teams with older QB’s - even great ones - should be figuring out what their plan is. Of course the teams with the young studs won’t. I don’t think it’s “we have Cousins he’s our franchise so screw the QB position in the draft”. Not at all, that would be way too simplistic.
Sure, if your QB is truly nearing the end of his career, 2 years or less, it makes sense to look for his replacement. Cases in point would be Drew Brees or Philip Rivers. Sean Payton already thinks he has his man in Taysom Hill. I personally think he's smoking dope, but there you go.

Green Bay's choice to draft Love, however, was laughable. Mark it down ... Jordan Love will not be the starter at any time during his rookie contract unless Aaron Rodgers gets hurt. Rodgers at 37 is still playing at a very high level. 2019 wasn't his best year statistically, but he was playing in a new offense for the first time in forever, and they still went 13-3. The biggest factor, however, was that the Packers needed weapons around him. Adams was great, but Valdes-Scantling was a drop machine and Lazard was a nice 3rd receiver but big and slow. Then they took Jordan Love, who many scouts felt (and still feel) has bust written all over him. Yes, Rodgers had a great year — 48 TDs to 5 picks is unbelievable. But if they lose in the playoffs because some team shuts down Adams and the others can't step up to fill the void ... watch the talons come out with fans and the media. They're gonna go right back to that Jordan Love pick. And that criticism will be justified.

In a situation like the Vikings have, Cousins is 32. He's got 7 or 8 years left if he wants to play that long. And the Vikings view him as the long-term future. Again, that's not what lots of Vikings fans think, but it is what Vikings management thinks. In that scenario, when you feel you still have 5 years with a guy, it makes no sense to spend a No. 14 pick on a quarterback. Therefore, the Vikings won't.

What many Vikings fans want is for the Vikings to operate as though they're planning to release Cousins once his deal is up two years from now. That, in turn, means they should be looking for his replacement now. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that's not going to happen.

In fact, I'll go so far as to offer this hot take:
The chances of Cousins getting extended again, perhaps as early as this offseason in order to free up space under a much lower 2021 cap, are significantly better than the chances of the Vikings letting him walk after 2022.

Which brings us back to the original point. You don't spend big on a future QB if you feel you have your long-term answer at QB. Like it or not, that's how the Vikings feel about Kirk D. Cousins.
0 x
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.

psjordan
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1662
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 8:01 am
x 64

Re: Vikings have #14 pick

Post by psjordan » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:13 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:37 am
Rodgers at 37 is still playing at a very high level.
And the scary part is he didn't even play until 2008 (drafted 2005), so he's a "really young" 37 at the QB spot. Sucks for us.
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:37 am
Then they took Jordan Love, who many scouts felt (and still feel) has bust written all over him. Yes, Rodgers had a great year — 48 TDs to 5 picks is unbelievable. But if they lose in the playoffs because some team shuts down Adams and the others can't step up to fill the void ... watch the talons come out with fans and the media. They're gonna go right back to that Jordan Love pick. And that criticism will be justified.
I must not have been paying attention at the time, since I don't recall that assessment of Love being widespread. Personally I think he might pan out pretty well - but as you say, if it doesn't happen during his rookie deal then it becomes all kinds of messy for GB. As for criticism of the Love pick, honestly I see zero of that now and really don't expect anyone will make the connection to passing on Claypool that I've made in numerous posts. No one ever seems to tally the opportunity cost of taking swings at 1st round QB's while you have a viable starter. Besides, boiling it down to "they would have won it with Claypool" is one of those Jello-like takes that I really dislike. And don't tell anyone, but ... [I think the Pack may win it all this year anyways.]
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:37 am
In a situation like the Vikings have, Cousins is 32. He's got 7 or 8 years left if he wants to play that long. And the Vikings view him as the long-term future. Again, that's not what lots of Vikings fans think, but it is what Vikings management thinks. In that scenario, when you feel you still have 5 years with a guy, it makes no sense to spend a No. 14 pick on a quarterback. Therefore, the Vikings won't.
As I stated above, I also don't think they'll select a QB at #14, but for different reasons. Why do you think management wants Cousins 5-8 more years? I certainly have seen nothing that would indicate that.
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:37 am
What many Vikings fans want is for the Vikings to operate as though they're planning to release Cousins once his deal is up two years from now.
Hmmm. I don't see it that way. I see Vikes fans wanting OPTIONS once Kirk's current deal crosses over to the "we can move on if we want" stage. And the only way to have options, well, is to have options. Like a viable QB from the 2021 or 22 draft, or a trade during that timeframe. Home Depot in Minnesota is going to have to stop selling rope and stepstools if Cousins/Mannion/7th rounder-du-juor is our QB team from now to 2026.
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:37 am
In fact, I'll go so far as to offer this hot take:
The chances of Cousins getting extended again, perhaps as early as this offseason in order to free up space under a much lower 2021 cap, are significantly better than the chances of the Vikings letting him walk after 2022.
If we don't drastically improve our OL, there is not a big enough WALLBANG emoji out there for me to express sentiments on this hot take becoming reality!
0 x

Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8151
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY
x 739

Re: Vikings have #14 pick

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:25 am

S197 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:03 pm
If Rick and Zimmer are here, we're not taking a QB. I don't care if we trade up, stay pat, or trade down. It ain't happening. Never has, never will. I've already laid out why in multiple posts going all the way back to Favre. I'm not arguing this again.
....I mean the Vikings did take Teddy in 2014. Both Rick and Zim were here...
0 x
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri

User avatar
IIsweet
Franchise Player
Posts: 472
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:02 pm
x 27

Re: Vikings have #14 pick

Post by IIsweet » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:04 pm

I think Cousins is very intelligent and knows that in order to keep cashing those massive checks, he will continuously accept extensions to create salary cap room. This guarantees longevity of $25+million for years. I don't know how many other teams would invest $25M+ in him. So are we being fleeced? Is the FO going to continue to keep him saying all along that he is always willing to sacrifice $$$ to build the team around our franchise QB?

I think the question that needs to be addressed is... Does the FO believe that Kirk is a franchise guy that can win a SB ? Currently, it appears that they believe so. If that is the case. The discussion is moot point and we should be targeting trading down.

I loved the idea of trading down as mentioned before and accumulating 25 and 33, plus whatever else was on the table...
I am all for drafting the DT from Iowa, However, I am a HUGE fan of the 'Bama DT Christian Barmore ! He is a BEAST.
I am also all for what another mentioned somewhere... Why in all of these past drafts have we not added but 2 players from Alabama during one of the greatest runs in college football history. Over a decade of dominance. I get that not all college players transition to the NFL, but they somehow put 10-15 people in the NFL every year, but we never add them ?????

With the 33rd pick, I like OG Wyatt Davis if he is healthy after hurting his knee in the CG, or Kadarius Toney the modern day Percy Harvin from Florida.
0 x

User avatar
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8423
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 1026

Re: Vikings have #14 pick

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:22 pm

psjordan wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:13 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:37 am
Rodgers at 37 is still playing at a very high level.
And the scary part is he didn't even play until 2008 (drafted 2005), so he's a "really young" 37 at the QB spot. Sucks for us.
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:37 am
Then they took Jordan Love, who many scouts felt (and still feel) has bust written all over him. Yes, Rodgers had a great year — 48 TDs to 5 picks is unbelievable. But if they lose in the playoffs because some team shuts down Adams and the others can't step up to fill the void ... watch the talons come out with fans and the media. They're gonna go right back to that Jordan Love pick. And that criticism will be justified.
I must not have been paying attention at the time, since I don't recall that assessment of Love being widespread. Personally I think he might pan out pretty well - but as you say, if it doesn't happen during his rookie deal then it becomes all kinds of messy for GB. As for criticism of the Love pick, honestly I see zero of that now and really don't expect anyone will make the connection to passing on Claypool that I've made in numerous posts. No one ever seems to tally the opportunity cost of taking swings at 1st round QB's while you have a viable starter. Besides, boiling it down to "they would have won it with Claypool" is one of those Jello-like takes that I really dislike. And don't tell anyone, but ... [I think the Pack may win it all this year anyways.]
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:37 am
In a situation like the Vikings have, Cousins is 32. He's got 7 or 8 years left if he wants to play that long. And the Vikings view him as the long-term future. Again, that's not what lots of Vikings fans think, but it is what Vikings management thinks. In that scenario, when you feel you still have 5 years with a guy, it makes no sense to spend a No. 14 pick on a quarterback. Therefore, the Vikings won't.
As I stated above, I also don't think they'll select a QB at #14, but for different reasons. Why do you think management wants Cousins 5-8 more years? I certainly have seen nothing that would indicate that.
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:37 am
What many Vikings fans want is for the Vikings to operate as though they're planning to release Cousins once his deal is up two years from now.
Hmmm. I don't see it that way. I see Vikes fans wanting OPTIONS once Kirk's current deal crosses over to the "we can move on if we want" stage. And the only way to have options, well, is to have options. Like a viable QB from the 2021 or 22 draft, or a trade during that timeframe. Home Depot in Minnesota is going to have to stop selling rope and stepstools if Cousins/Mannion/7th rounder-du-juor is our QB team from now to 2026.
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:37 am
In fact, I'll go so far as to offer this hot take:
The chances of Cousins getting extended again, perhaps as early as this offseason in order to free up space under a much lower 2021 cap, are significantly better than the chances of the Vikings letting him walk after 2022.
If we don't drastically improve our OL, there is not a big enough WALLBANG emoji out there for me to express sentiments on this hot take becoming reality!
Good conversation here. Thanks.

The Love pick was widely criticized throughout every level of the media — not only when it happened, but now. Do you think I'm smart enough to come up with the "if the Packers lose because Adams got shut down" take on my own? Wait, don't answer that! That take is all over ESPN, NFL Network, Fox Sports and everybody else who covers the NFL. The Packers actually traded up to get him, and Aaron Rodgers has stated publicly many times that he plans to play out his contract, which runs through 2023, and might play even more after that. Do a basic Google search. You'll find one article after another blasting the pick, with an occasional counter-punch as to why it made sense.

As for what Vikings fans want, yours is a very generous assessment. If you want to dive into the real cesspool, go to any social media post about anything to do with the Minnesota Vikings, and you'll get the true measure of hatred many, many Vikings fans have for Kirk Cousins. You can't find a single social media post — I don't care if it's about the mascot or hot dogs in the stadium — where fans don't end up taking shots at Cousins. The members of this board are a bit more measured, but some turn every thread into an opportunity to rip Cousins. Bottom line, and lots of Vikings fans have no desire for options. They want him gone now.

Management, however, is definitely tied to Kirk Cousins. Here's why. This quote from Mark Wilf comes from just before the opener this past season.
"Rick has been outstanding in his role as Vikings general manager," Minnesota co-owner/team president Mark Wilf said. "We are excited and honored to have him continue to lead our efforts to build a championship roster and first-class organization. With Rick's and Coach Zimmer's leadership in place, we are in a great position to continue to compete for a Super Bowl."
"But wait," you say. "Mark Wilf is talking about Spielman and Zimmer." Correct. And Spielman and Zimmer are inextricably tied to Cousins. They went after him in free agency, and they extended him, so they've hitched their horses to the Kirk Wagon. Think about it. The Wilfs obviously love Spielman and Zimmer. The contracts of Spielman, Zimmer and Cousins expire at roughly the same time, with Cousins' contract expiring one year before Spielman and Zimmer. With one year left on their contracts, it's unlikely Spielman and Zimmer will let Cousins walk after 2022 — it would put their own jobs at risk if the next QB flops, while they know what they have in Cousins. So from where I sit, the only way the Vikings will ever un-hitch themselves from Cousins is if they fire Spielman and Zimmer.

For many Vikings fans, all of that can't happen soon enough. But I can guarantee you it won't happen this offseason, and it's unlikely that it happens next offseason. If the Vikings remain in the Top 5 in offense and improve the defense and special teams even marginally, they'll be back in the playoffs. It'll probably be as a Wild Card, and likely either one-and-done or winning a Wild-Card game, but they'll make the tournament. And if that happens, Spielman and Zimmer will be back for 2022, which means it would take a monumental failure for them to lose their jobs before their contracts expire. Which means Cousins is likely going to get extended at some point.

My hot take is your barometer. If that happens — especially if it happens this offseason, which I believe is entirely possible — then you've got your answer as to the Vikings' position on Cousins as the long-term quarterback.
0 x
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.

User avatar
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8423
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 1026

Re: Vikings have #14 pick

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:26 pm

IIsweet wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:04 pm
I think Cousins is very intelligent and knows that in order to keep cashing those massive checks, he will continuously accept extensions to create salary cap room. This guarantees longevity of $25+million for years. I don't know how many other teams would invest $25M+ in him. So are we being fleeced? Is the FO going to continue to keep him saying all along that he is always willing to sacrifice $$$ to build the team around our franchise QB?

I think the question that needs to be addressed is... Does the FO believe that Kirk is a franchise guy that can win a SB ? Currently, it appears that they believe so. If that is the case. The discussion is moot point and we should be targeting trading down.

I loved the idea of trading down as mentioned before and accumulating 25 and 33, plus whatever else was on the table...
I am all for drafting the DT from Iowa, However, I am a HUGE fan of the 'Bama DT Christian Barmore ! He is a BEAST.
I am also all for what another mentioned somewhere... Why in all of these past drafts have we not added but 2 players from Alabama during one of the greatest runs in college football history. Over a decade of dominance. I get that not all college players transition to the NFL, but they somehow put 10-15 people in the NFL every year, but we never add them ?????

With the 33rd pick, I like OG Wyatt Davis if he is healthy after hurting his knee in the CG, or Kadarius Toney the modern day Percy Harvin from Florida.
Ding ding ding ding ding!
0 x
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.

User avatar
S197
Fenrir
Posts: 12469
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Hawaii
x 551

Re: Vikings have #14 pick

Post by S197 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:56 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:25 am
S197 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:03 pm
If Rick and Zimmer are here, we're not taking a QB. I don't care if we trade up, stay pat, or trade down. It ain't happening. Never has, never will. I've already laid out why in multiple posts going all the way back to Favre. I'm not arguing this again.
....I mean the Vikings did take Teddy in 2014. Both Rick and Zim were here...
Because we had no other options. Same reason we drafted Ponder. But when we’ve had a starter in place, Rick has never drafted a QB. Not in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th rounds. The only deviation is John David Booty way back in 2008? Remember, Joe Webb was drafted as a WR and it was Childress, not Rick, who moved him back to QB in training camp.

That’s the entire list over the span of more than a decade. I would be absolutely floored if he drafts a QB higher than the 5th. And even in the 5th round it would be surprising given his history.
0 x

User avatar
Mothman
Defensive Tackle
Posts: 38250
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Location: Chicago, IL
x 368

Re: Vikings have #14 pick

Post by Mothman » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:18 pm

S197 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:56 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:25 am


....I mean the Vikings did take Teddy in 2014. Both Rick and Zim were here...
Because we had no other options. Same reason we drafted Ponder. But when we’ve had a starter in place, Rick has never drafted a QB. Not in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th rounds. The only deviation is John David Booty way back in 2008? Remember, Joe Webb was drafted as a WR and it was Childress, not Rick, who moved him back to QB in training camp.

That’s the entire list over the span of more than a decade. I would be absolutely floored if he drafts a QB higher than the 5th. And even in the 5th round it would be surprising given his history.
Exactly. In 14 years, he's drafted 3 QBs and Ponder and Bridgewater were both "I don't have a starter" selections.
0 x

StumpHunter
Career Elite Player
Posts: 2237
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:55 am
x 360

Re: Vikings have #14 pick

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:33 pm

S197 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:56 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:25 am


....I mean the Vikings did take Teddy in 2014. Both Rick and Zim were here...
Because we had no other options. Same reason we drafted Ponder. But when we’ve had a starter in place, Rick has never drafted a QB. Not in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th rounds. The only deviation is John David Booty way back in 2008? Remember, Joe Webb was drafted as a WR and it was Childress, not Rick, who moved him back to QB in training camp.

That’s the entire list over the span of more than a decade. I would be absolutely floored if he drafts a QB higher than the 5th. And even in the 5th round it would be surprising given his history.
When Lamar Jackson falls to you in the first and you think Mike Hughes is the better option?
1 x

User avatar
VikingPaul73
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3254
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 5:07 pm
x 110

Re: Vikings have #14 pick

Post by VikingPaul73 » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:15 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:37 am


Then they took Jordan Love, who many scouts felt (and still feel) has bust written all over him. Yes, Rodgers had a great year — 48 TDs to 5 picks is unbelievable. But if they lose in the playoffs because some team shuts down Adams and the others can't step up to fill the void ... watch the talons come out with fans and the media. They're gonna go right back to that Jordan Love pick. And that criticism will be justified.
funny you say that Kapp.....not to get too far off topic but I was just telling a friend I think the Rams could give Rodgers fits this weekend. If Donald can get good pressure and Ramsey can shut down (or at least contain) the Packers' only legit threat at WR.......it could be an interesting game!!!

Go Rams!!
0 x