Zimmer evaluation, 2021 "team outlook"

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Zimmer evaluation, 2021 "team outlook"

Post by psjordan » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:15 pm

Since I posted the Rick evaluation article, here is the link to the Zimmer one, same author.

For the most part it reads to me like a guy just trying to turn in a 10,000 word article. All seems to be well with all players. The only shot he takes at any asst coaches at all is saying they may be stretched too thin. He does take Zim to task for clock and game management and a few other things.
Also:
"In the Mike Zimmer era, the Vikings are 8-14-1 in games where the margin of victory was 3 points or less. That’s a .364 winning percentage."
"the Carolina game was the first one-point game Zimmer has won as a head coach in seven years"


https://www.dailynorseman.com/2020/12/3 ... ike-zimmer


And here is what I think is mostly a puff piece from SI/MMQB. Definitely not as critical an eye as fans here but a few tidbits of conjecture:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/12/31/2021- ... ta-vikings
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Re: Zimmer evaluation, 2021 "team outlook"

Post by CharVike » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:31 pm

Based on the NFL today I think Zimmer has done a good job. He makes the playoffs every other year which puts our team in the final bracket of good teams. I also think the players play hard for him and he also gets the most out of them. This year we started 1-5 and the team still didn't pack it in and were in the playoff hunt until late. He has lost some games that I have expected him to win. That happens with every coach. The Rams are in a playoff push and let the Jets beat them recently. Look at the players we have put out there this season. Without the Viking fan blinded view. This Viking defense has about a bad starting 11 that I have ever seen in my 50 years of watching. Yet they still won some games which is beyond my belief. He also gives Rodgers a hard time which isn't easy. He gets us in the playoffs and we play in a tough division. Some feel the Bears are terrible but I don't. You play them and you know you were in a tough game. They bring it. Trib not developing has killed them. This team went to the champ game with Case as the starter for most of the year. He got the most out of him. Even this pass rush guy we traded for had some sacks under Zim. He hasn't done much since we traded him. 2021 will be a tough year for us. I don't see Rodgers turning into a bum and the Bears are a tough team. We have some young guys that have shown some talent and that's a positive. The key on D will be Hunter. He's a stud but if he's done good luck with getting a pass rush. IMO pass rush is the main key for a defense. If you can't pressure a QB you can't play good D. We need a big time pass rusher. There will not be one in FA. Teams keep those or trade them before FA. Plus these two safeties we have need to be gone. You can't win with that. Harris does zero and the other guy is finished. Rudy needs to go also. We might make the playoffs and then get beat
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Re: Zimmer evaluation, 2021 "team outlook"

Post by psjordan » Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:28 am

CharVike wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:31 pm
The key on D will be Hunter. He's a stud but if he's done good luck with getting a pass rush. IMO pass rush is the main key for a defense. If you can't pressure a QB you can't play good D. We need a big time pass rusher. There will not be one in FA.
Not to hijack my own thread, but call me crazy, Wonnum reminds me a bit of Hunter as a rookie. Similar stats if you factor in Hunter had a much better supporting cast in 2015. Physically they are very similar. The LAST thing I want is Hunter to be done, but I think we may be able to recover better at the pass rush than most think if we have to live without him. And the DB's having a season under their belt will only help the pass rush.

Hunter retiring might change the draft strategy as well, which of course may effect other areas like the OL.

And maybe this will make you feel better about the S position:
https://www.espn.com/blog/minnesota-vik ... th-vikings
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Re: Zimmer evaluation, 2021 "team outlook"

Post by YikesVikes » Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:41 pm

We missed the playoffs despite an extension to the playoffs format. We are not in the final bracket of teams. That bracket is for teams that make the playoffs 3 years and miss it onece only to make it 3 more straight etc. We are middle of the pack at best. We've won 2 playoff games 7 years. Some team will surpass that this year alone.
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Re: Zimmer evaluation, 2021 "team outlook"

Post by S197 » Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:52 pm

psjordan wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:28 am
CharVike wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:31 pm
The key on D will be Hunter. He's a stud but if he's done good luck with getting a pass rush. IMO pass rush is the main key for a defense. If you can't pressure a QB you can't play good D. We need a big time pass rusher. There will not be one in FA.
Not to hijack my own thread, but call me crazy, Wonnum reminds me a bit of Hunter as a rookie. Similar stats if you factor in Hunter had a much better supporting cast in 2015. Physically they are very similar. The LAST thing I want is Hunter to be done, but I think we may be able to recover better at the pass rush than most think if we have to live without him. And the DB's having a season under their belt will only help the pass rush.

Hunter retiring might change the draft strategy as well, which of course may effect other areas like the OL.

And maybe this will make you feel better about the S position:
https://www.espn.com/blog/minnesota-vik ... th-vikings
Wonnum has similar measurables to Hunter, not as good, but somewhat similar. I’m sure they were trying to find another in his mold. I’m more worried about our DTs although if Rousseau is around I’d take a chance on him, assuming Micah Parsons is gone.
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Re: Zimmer evaluation, 2021 "team outlook"

Post by StumpHunter » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:18 pm

psjordan wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:28 am
CharVike wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:31 pm
The key on D will be Hunter. He's a stud but if he's done good luck with getting a pass rush. IMO pass rush is the main key for a defense. If you can't pressure a QB you can't play good D. We need a big time pass rusher. There will not be one in FA.
Not to hijack my own thread, but call me crazy, Wonnum reminds me a bit of Hunter as a rookie. Similar stats if you factor in Hunter had a much better supporting cast in 2015. Physically they are very similar. The LAST thing I want is Hunter to be done, but I think we may be able to recover better at the pass rush than most think if we have to live without him. And the DB's having a season under their belt will only help the pass rush.

Hunter retiring might change the draft strategy as well, which of course may effect other areas like the OL.

And maybe this will make you feel better about the S position:
https://www.espn.com/blog/minnesota-vik ... th-vikings
Hunter 2015 rookie #'s:
250 Pass rushing snaps
420 snaps
6 sacks
31 pressures
7.1% pass rushing productivity
25 tackles
19 stops
5 missed tackles

Wonnum's #'s:

232 Pass rushing snaps
420 total snaps
3 sacks
20 pressures
5.6 % pass rushing productivity
15 tackles
13 stops
9 missed tackles

Hunter played a little more against the pass (Wonnum might match him this weekend), and had twice as many sacks along with 11 more pressures on the QB. Against the run Hunter was much better overall, despite a strong start to the season against the run for Wonnum. He has been a really inconsistent tackler. Not really comparable stat-wise, but it has been a really bad year for rookie edge rushers. Either this year's rookie edge rushing class is a bunch of guys who will need at least a year to develop, or lack of OTAs really hurt that position hard. Same with defensive tackles where there is really no standout from this rookie class.

If Hunter isn't back next year, and I think it is almost a guarantee he will be based on how others have recovered from his injury, I don't see any reason to believe the pass rush will improve much. We can only afford Odenigbo if other teams don't think he is a good edge rusher, and Wonnum hasn't really done anything in that regard. He could be the next Hunter, but the odds are he isn't. 3 tech is still non-existent and Pierce is not a pass rusher.

As for safety, I think Smith and Harris are being asked to do a lot more in the secondary than they have in year's past to try to hide issues at corner. It isn't a coincidence they are both having down years in a season they are playing with rookies and practice squad corners. Unfortunately, only Smith will be back next year it seems like.
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Re: Zimmer evaluation, 2021 "team outlook"

Post by IIsweet » Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:29 am

Here is my concern... we keep Zimmer and miss out on a potentially great HC. Just saw on ESPN talking about Zimmer is not going anywhere and he is supposed to fix/rebuild the defense. Has 2 more years to do so.
My concern is missing out on Matt Campbell of Iowa State. Been on his bandwagon. Anthony Lynn may be available too.
Regardless, I think our issue is the ENTIRE coaching staff.
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Re: Zimmer evaluation, 2021 "team outlook"

Post by allday1991 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:13 pm

CharVike wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:31 pm
Based on the NFL today I think Zimmer has done a good job. He makes the playoffs every other year which puts our team in the final bracket of good teams. I also think the players play hard for him and he also gets the most out of them. This year we started 1-5 and the team still didn't pack it in and were in the playoff hunt until late. He has lost some games that I have expected him to win. That happens with every coach. The Rams are in a playoff push and let the Jets beat them recently. Look at the players we have put out there this season. Without the Viking fan blinded view. This Viking defense has about a bad starting 11 that I have ever seen in my 50 years of watching. Yet they still won some games which is beyond my belief. He also gives Rodgers a hard time which isn't easy. He gets us in the playoffs and we play in a tough division. Some feel the Bears are terrible but I don't. You play them and you know you were in a tough game. They bring it. Trib not developing has killed them. This team went to the champ game with Case as the starter for most of the year. He got the most out of him. Even this pass rush guy we traded for had some sacks under Zim. He hasn't done much since we traded him. 2021 will be a tough year for us. I don't see Rodgers turning into a bum and the Bears are a tough team. We have some young guys that have shown some talent and that's a positive. The key on D will be Hunter. He's a stud but if he's done good luck with getting a pass rush. IMO pass rush is the main key for a defense. If you can't pressure a QB you can't play good D. We need a big time pass rusher. There will not be one in FA. Teams keep those or trade them before FA. Plus these two safeties we have need to be gone. You can't win with that. Harris does zero and the other guy is finished. Rudy needs to go also. We might make the playoffs and then get beat
Exactly what Zimmer brings, mediocrity, want a superbowl and a team that can actually win it for a decent window. Sure he does alright but fails in comparison to some of the other head coaches and franchise, good, but not good enough.
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Re: Zimmer evaluation, 2021 "team outlook"

Post by S197 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:33 pm

Tweet from Courtney Cronin:
Here are the opponents Minnesota will face in 2021: Home - Bears, Packers, Lions, Rams, Cowboys, Steelers, Browns, Seahawks // Away - Bears, Packers, Lions, Cardinals, Ravens, Panthers, Bengals, 49ers
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Re: Zimmer evaluation, 2021 "team outlook"

Post by VikingPaul73 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:35 pm

S197 wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:33 pm
Tweet from Courtney Cronin:
Here are the opponents Minnesota will face in 2021: Home - Bears, Packers, Lions, Rams, Cowboys, Steelers, Browns, Seahawks // Away - Bears, Packers, Lions, Cardinals, Ravens, Panthers, Bengals, 49ers
16-0 :smilevike: :smilevike: :smilevike:
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Re: Zimmer evaluation, 2021 "team outlook"

Post by S197 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:55 pm

VikingPaul73 wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:35 pm
S197 wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:33 pm
Tweet from Courtney Cronin:

16-0 :smilevike: :smilevike: :smilevike:
At least we get the Seahawks at home! Trying to decide which game to watch. Likely between Steelers, Seahawks, and Cowboys.

Edit: If any VMB peeps want to coordinate a meet up let me know.
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Re: Zimmer evaluation, 2021 "team outlook"

Post by Raz » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:55 pm

Just at a quick glance but that schedule looks a little salty
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Re: Zimmer evaluation, 2021 "team outlook"

Post by VikeFanInEagleLand » Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:51 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:41 pm
We missed the playoffs despite an extension to the playoffs format. We are not in the final bracket of teams. That bracket is for teams that make the playoffs 3 years and miss it onece only to make it 3 more straight etc. We are middle of the pack at best. We've won 2 playoff games 7 years. Some team will surpass that this year alone.
Well, if you're defining the Top Bracket that way, that would include only one NFC team (Seattle) and two AFC teams (NE & KC). If you want to divide the league into thirds, the Vikings still wouldn't make the Top Bracket during the Zimmer Era. My Top Bracket would include:

New England
Kansas City
Seattle
Green Bay
Pittsburgh
New Orleans
Baltimore
Houston
Carolina
Philadelphia

But, I think the Vikings would be the top team in the Mid-Bracket.
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Re: Zimmer evaluation, 2021 "team outlook"

Post by VikeFanInEagleLand » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:26 pm

Raz wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:55 pm
Just at a quick glance but that schedule looks a little salty
Well, seeing that 9 of 16 games are against playoff teams, and 2 other games were teams that were only eliminated on the last week, and the fact that the Vikings had a losing record....yeah....uphill climb.
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Re: Zimmer evaluation, 2021 "team outlook"

Post by IIsweet » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:45 pm

Wow.... hate say it looks like a 4-12 season, but it definitely does not look like a promising schedule. Or, maybe I have lost faith in this regime ???
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