Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:49 pm

Mothman wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:46 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:22 pm
What coach could have won it all with the rosters provided Zimmer?

It takes great teams to win it all, not really good, great. 2017 was close to being great, but the Philly team they faced in the playoffs was much, much better overall. Not just because of coaching either.

Zimmer's time here has run its course, but I don't see a bunch of great rosters wasted by poor coaching since he joined the team. For the most part, the rosters provided Zimmer perform as good as you would expect them too imo. Not better outside of maybe 2015 and 2017, and not worse. Not good enough coaching, but not the only reason we haven't won it all. The rest of that reason falls on the talent put on the field not being good enough.
Zimmer has something to do with that too. He's not simply provided rosters. He has significant input into those rosters.
Yep, which is why he and Rick need to go.

They are both good at their jobs, but at this point we know they aren't good enough.
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by Texas Vike » Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:45 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:51 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:40 pm
A new GM and new HC might be worse than the current ones or they might be just as good. OR they might just better and be the combination we need to get us a SB ring. How are there still fans that don't want a shot at that?
The strongest argument should be made around results. When a GM or head coach receives a contract, there should be expectations built into what the owners want to see happening when those contracts are up for extension. It is similar to drafting a player. A 1st round pick gets a 4 year contract, for example. Well, what does the team need to see from that player heading into that 4th year for them to want to extend him? If he's a running back, I'm sure they want to see him leading the team in rushing and maybe competing for the league lead in rushing. If he's a WR, he should be putting up big numbers by that point in his career. Same goes for other players at other positions. If the expected production isn't there to match the team's initial evaluation when the player was signed or extended, it is time to move on and look for someone else.

Same principle should apply for GMs and head coaches. The team should be enjoying some objective success. Ideally, competing for Superbowls, but if not, at least competing for Division championships and overall being competitive. To the extent that is or isn't happening, the ownership should act accordingly.

The Wilfs aren't going to move on from Spielman and Zimmer this offseason. At least, I don't think so. They extended both last year and both have enough things to point to as reasons to stay the course heading into next year that I think the Wilfs will not make a move to change things up at that level.

Now if we're having this conversation at this point next year, both Spielman and Zimmer will be gone. Of that, I have no doubt.
This is my read of the front office's intentions as well. I think Spielman, Zimmer, and Cousins are linked, and I think the Wilfs will decide to give this trio one more season. Like Zimmer's coaching philosophy, they strike me as somewhat conservative (almost tentative) in their decision making. It is a difficult moment to be a Vikings fan. I just don't have much hope that the essential pieces are in place for us to actually make a SB run with this trio of GM, Coach and QB.
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by psjordan » Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:13 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:14 pm
Look, I understand the negativity and dour outlook and the desire to blame Zimmer, but I just have to point out that the Vikings went into this offseason needing a full set of OTAs and training camp more than just about any other team in the NFL due to the wholesale changes that were made at CB in the secondary. Those young guys needed that time badly to have any chance of hitting the ground running and while you can blame Zimmer and Spielman for allowing the defensive secondary to be in that situation in the first place, you can't blame them for assuming they'd get that necessary time in the offseason. Along those lines, you can't blame Zimmer for losing his best defensive end and a core FA acquisition who was supposed to shore up the middle of the defensive line. You can't blame Zimmer for losing a key player on defense in Barr and then arguably his best defensive player in Kendricks later in the season just as the team was rounding the corner into contention. I also can't blame Zimmer for the weaknesses in the interior OL play save maybe he should have ditched Samia sooner. Likewise, it's hard to blame Zimmer for Dan Bailey's sudden severe case of the yips or the utter failure of the special teams, the bad calls that went against the Vikings in some key games, etc.
No disputes or disagreements with the cards we/he were dealt this year. My point is not that Zimmer is a bad coach. I think he falls short in major areas as a HC, and I am supremely disappointed in his selection of assistant coaches, but he's not Adam Gase (after all, Gase is on a winning streak! jk).

What I am saying is that I have lost faith he has what it takes to move this team forward from where they are now. Where they are now doesn't suck, it's just maddeningly mediocre.

So, in what areas does Zimmer fall short in moving this team forward? And in particular, what areas has he shown little to no progress in the last 3-4 years?

Selection of assistant coaches (talent and nepotism);
General attitude towards players, particularly post-game after a loss;
His - or his designate - handling of kickers and special teams in general. Not hard at all to blame Zim for that, it's called HEAD coach for a reason;
Not sure why but his whiff on how to use Cordarelle Patterson still irks me to no end;
His - or his designate - handling of QB's (I think at best he's been largely hands off with Cousins, and at worst he - or the young Kubiak - has made him a lesser decision-making QB). While I believe this to be true, I am prepared to give a hall pass due to the state of the OL. However...
Apparent inability to solve problems, such as the OL woes. He's the guy running the team on the field, if he does not agree with how the GM picks OL then he needs to help solve the problem, not ignore it. IMO this issue has more to do with coaching the OL than selecting the OL, but that is again Zim's domain.
His lack of responsibility for bad performances/losses - they never seem to be due to coaching, according to Zim;
You can "blame" Rick or anyone else as much as you want, but that implies Zim just sits around and does nothing to improve our ability to select OL for instance. And sitting around "accepting fate" is NOT a trait I want in my HC.

As an aside, I don't think he's been the same coach since all the eye surgeries.

I get the sense he is a good X and O defensive coach, at least when listening to others in the league who have played against him. I never know who is blowing smoke, but I'll take the comments at face value and say he's good at defensive X's and O's.

To me, anecdotally, he's a terrible motivator of young men. I have no hard proof of that. But I've been around enough of these coaches to spot the better and worse, and Zim is way down the list.

All in all, my "best case cautious" approach would be to fire the coaching staff. Start interviews, and if a guy like Urban Meyer (don't want him, we won't get him) says he wants input/control/whatever on the GM position and does not want to work with Rick, well then bye bye Rick. Give the new guy carte blanche to dump Cousins or whoever does not fit his vision of things.

I do not want to see 40-50 coaches and front office staff fired (nor would the Wilfs dream of doing that I believe), which would be the result of the "fire Zim and Rick right now!!" crowd. Especially because I see zero assistant coaches prepared to even interview for the HC position, much less get it. And if the top goes, it's not like either staff has much of a chance of sticking around. That would be turmoil. Not horrible, but not a great scenario.

I'll end with a question revolving around firing Zim, Rick or both at season end - how attractive would either or both positions be to the outside world? Compared to JAX? Compared to NYJ?
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by VikingLord » Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:18 pm

psjordan wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:13 pm
I'll end with a question revolving around firing Zim, Rick or both at season end - how attractive would either or both positions be to the outside world? Compared to JAX? Compared to NYJ?
It's too easy to blame the GM and coaches IMHO, especially when this last season there were so many obvious places where the execution on the field was bad. I understand the temptation, especially when Spielman and Zimmer have had several cracks at it over a long time, but other than the offseason decisions to ship several vets and not bring back others, I don't see how replacing either or both improves the team's overall position heading into next season. New and different could be better, but it could also be worse.

But how attractive would the Vikings GM and head coach roles be?

I'd imagine very attractive. The team has a strong base of talent to start from and supportive owners who are likely to give a GM and head coach anything they need. They have an outstanding practice facility and stadium and a dedicated fan base.

Those jobs would attract some quality candidates IMHO.
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by psjordan » Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:29 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:18 pm
It's too easy to blame the GM and coaches IMHO, especially when this last season there were so many obvious places where the execution on the field was bad. I understand the temptation...
Under this "too easy" theory, coaches and GM's are never the problem then. This is not a knee-jerk "let's fire the bastids" wolf cry after a bad season. The coaches, in particular and IMO, have seriously fallen short lately and EVEN THIS YEAR with all the associated problems. It's not a temptation, it's an analysis.
VikingLord wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:18 pm
I don't see how replacing either or both improves the team's overall position heading into next season. New and different could be better, but it could also be worse.
Well I hope these decisions are not made IRL in the context of "heading into next season", nor with the evil portent "it could be worse" the deciding factor. And besides, I think most would not expect rapid improvement from any major change.

I'll stop short of calling the atmosphere that Zim has built as "toxic", but it's definitely not something you want to spread on a muffin in the morning.
VikingLord wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:18 pm
But how attractive would the Vikings GM and head coach roles be?

I'd imagine very attractive. The team has a strong base of talent to start from and supportive owners who are likely to give a GM and head coach anything they need. They have an outstanding practice facility and stadium and a dedicated fan base.

Those jobs would attract some quality candidates IMHO.
Hmmm. I'm not sold on that - if we added our HC position to the Pile of Six in front of us right now, are we better off than anything but the HOU gig?
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by VikingLord » Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:24 pm

psjordan wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:29 pm
Under this "too easy" theory, coaches and GM's are never the problem then. This is not a knee-jerk "let's fire the bastids" wolf cry after a bad season. The coaches, in particular and IMO, have seriously fallen short lately and EVEN THIS YEAR with all the associated problems. It's not a temptation, it's an analysis.
There is a difference between being a portion of a problem and "the" problem, though.

For many here, it seems they are "the" problem, all stop.

I take issue with that, and if that is the conclusion, it's not an analysis, or at least not a fair one.
psjordan wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:29 pm
Well I hope these decisions are not made IRL in the context of "heading into next season", nor with the evil portent "it could be worse" the deciding factor. And besides, I think most would not expect rapid improvement from any major change.
If there is a plan in place then any decisions like this have to be made in the context of that plan. That's what I was trying to say with "heading into next season".

As far as rapid improvement goes, it can happen. It happened to the Packers just recently. They went from dysfunction to 13-3 and are 13-3 yet again this season.
psjordan wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:29 pm
I'll stop short of calling the atmosphere that Zim has built as "toxic", but it's definitely not something you want to spread on a muffin in the morning.
I don't think what you're claiming here is justified at all by what we saw on the field this year.

"Toxic" is the word you'd just stop short of? For a team that started 1-5 and could have imploded and yet battled back and kept fighting even when half their starting front 7 on defense (or more) went out with injury or opted out?

I've seen toxic coaching situations, and that kind of team character doesn't exist when the players hate the coaches.
psjordan wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:29 pm
Hmmm. I'm not sold on that - if we added our HC position to the Pile of Six in front of us right now, are we better off than anything but the HOU gig?
I think you and I see the current state of the team and the reasons for that state completely differently.

Unfortunately for you, the Wilfs seem to agree with my perspective. Neither Zimmer or Spielman is going anywhere this offseason and I think you know it. Maybe Gary Kubiak steps away, but other than that I don't see a major coaching change.

Kirk Cousins will be the starting QB for the Minnesota Vikings in 2021.

And I think the team is going to do just fine in 2021. I think better than fine, actually. I think they'll be right in the mix next season. With some good fortune and catching fire at the right time, they might even be better than in the mix and capable of winning it all.

So that's what I believe. Come back next year and tell me I was wrong on any of these points.
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by psjordan » Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:02 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:24 pm
There is a difference between being a portion of a problem and "the" problem, though. For many here, it seems they are "the" problem, all stop.
Well again, I don't see anyone claiming we will instantly be better with a new staff, just that we'll be better overall as a franchise. By inference, if the staff was "the" problem, we'd be better off instantly, yes? It may be semantics to you, but some of us see little chance Zimmer and staff bring this team to the Super Bowl.
VikingLord wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:24 pm
"Toxic" is the word you'd just stop short of? For a team that started 1-5 and could have imploded and yet battled back and kept fighting even when half their starting front 7 on defense (or more) went out with injury or opted out?
Yes, "toxic" is a word I'd stop short of. The "atmosphere" is not simply defined by what you feel the players think of the HC. It goes much wider and deeper than that. And the only signs we'll see is a franchise not getting to the Super Bowl. We don't have to see players giving up or tweeting about the coaching.
VikingLord wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:24 pm
Unfortunately for you, the Wilfs seem to agree with my perspective.
"Unfortunately for me"? I don't know what that means. I think the team will be better off with a well-searched new staff. Whether or not the Wilfs see it my way is neither here nor there - it's not my money for goodness sake. They could not care less about my opinion, and I fully realize that.
VikingLord wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:24 pm
Neither Zimmer or Spielman is going anywhere this offseason and I think you know it.
Of course. It's a fait accompli. They will be back.
VikingLord wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:24 pm
Come back next year and tell me I was wrong on any of these points.
I don't hang around here to keep score on people's opinions, and at my age I'll forget what you posted by tomorrow. But unless we win the Super Bowl next year, which no other staff could top, we will never know if a new staff hired right now would be better than Zimmer's, either short or long term.

I absolutely feel there is talent on this team right now, and I personally am not as down on Rick as many who voice their opinion here, so I'm confident the draft will yield decent results. I'm very down on Zimmer and staff, no question. Doesn't mean the team won't do well, doesn't mean I'll stop rooting if they don't read my stuff and take my suggestions, doesn't mean they won't make the playoffs.

It simply means I don't think they'll make or win a Super Bowl with this staff.
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by cmoss84 » Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:36 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:46 pm
OK everybody. After our loss to the putrid, miserable, horrible Bears, the season is all but over. We have 2 games left with a 2% chance of making the postseason. according to the computers. Which means we have no chance.

We already have a thread on the 2021 draft. Good stuff, or at least I guess it is. Honestly, I have no idea outside of Trevor Lawrence who's coming out because I've watched almost no college football, mainly because it's more rigged than even the NFL. I mean, the Big Ten says, "You must play 6 games to qualify for the title game," and then lets Ohio State skate by with 5. Clemson destroys Notre Dame in the ACC title game, yet the Irish get into the CFP, basically because they scraped by with an earlier overtime win against same Clemson team missing Lawrence and several other starters. Meanwhile, undefeated teams like Texas A&M end up in the Kellogs Frosted Flakes Cereal Bowl. Consider me tuned out of the college scene.

But we still have — wait for it — the SALARY CAP!

Here's the deal. Instead of increasing from $200 million to $210 million, the projected post-Covid salary cap is $175 million. That's a $35 million budget hit for next season.

That means some decisions are going to have to be made. Namely who stays, and who gets cut.

So here's the game. I'll provide the numbers, you manage the cap.

What you have below are the cap number, dead money and cap savings for each player on the 2021 Vikings with at least a $3 million cap hit. These numbers come from overthecap.com, which I highly recommend for anybody looking at cap numbers.

Some hints. If dead money exceeds cap savings, it's a net negative to cut him. If cap savings is higher than dead money, it's a net positive. And of course, if somebody has negative cap savings, that's the biggest possible deterrent from cutting them.

Player...................CapHit........Dead........CapSavings
Kirk Cousins............$31m............$41m........-$10m
Danielle Hunter........$17.75m.......$12m.........$5.75m
Anthony Barr............$15m............$7.8m........$7.2m
Riley Reiff................$13.9m.........$2.2m........$11.7m
Adam Thielen..........$13.5m.........$8.5m........$5.1m
Eric Kendricks.........$12.5m.........$9.9m........$2.6m
Kyle Rudolph...........$9.5m...........$4.4m........$5.1m
Dalvin Cook.............$5.2m...........$12.4m.....-$7.2m
Shamar Stephen.....$5.1m...........$1.3m........$3.8m
Michael Pierce.........$5m..............$9m...........$4m
Dan Bailey...............$3.8m...........$2.1m........$1.7m
Garrett Bradbury......$3.5m...........$7.6m.......-$4.1
Britton Colquitt.........$3.2m...........$1.4m........$1.8m
C.J. Ham..................$3m..............$2.25m......$750k

Overall, the Vikings are projected to be $8.4 million over the cap, given the projected $175 million cap figure. Also, keep in mind that the Vikings will need about $8 million to sign their incoming rookies.

All right, everybody. Name your cuts, keeps, extension/restructures, etc. Remember, all cuts must be made prior to June 1, or it all turns into a pumpkin driven by the Cap Hell Devil. If you want to find the numbers for lower-priced players, please refer to overthecap.com, so that we're all using the same source.

Thanks for playing!
This looks fun-I'll play! (although I can't believe you didn't call it "manage the Kapp")

Here's who I would release:
Barr +7.2
Reiff +11.7
Rudolph +5.1
Stephen +3.8
Bailey +1.7

Total savings = 29.5
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by VikingLord » Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:06 pm

cmoss84 wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:36 pm
This looks fun-I'll play! (although I can't believe you didn't call it "manage the Kapp")
:rofl: :point: :rofl: :point:

Kapp, there is still time to rename your challenge. :smilevike:
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by VikingLord » Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:14 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:46 pm
So here's the game. I'll provide the numbers, you manage the cap.

What you have below are the cap number, dead money and cap savings for each player on the 2021 Vikings with at least a $3 million cap hit. These numbers come from overthecap.com, which I highly recommend for anybody looking at cap numbers.

Some hints. If dead money exceeds cap savings, it's a net negative to cut him. If cap savings is higher than dead money, it's a net positive. And of course, if somebody has negative cap savings, that's the biggest possible deterrent from cutting them.

Player...................CapHit........Dead........CapSavings
Kirk Cousins............$31m............$41m........-$10m
Danielle Hunter........$17.75m.......$12m.........$5.75m
Anthony Barr............$15m............$7.8m........$7.2m
Riley Reiff................$13.9m.........$2.2m........$11.7m
Adam Thielen..........$13.5m.........$8.5m........$5.1m
Eric Kendricks.........$12.5m.........$9.9m........$2.6m
Kyle Rudolph...........$9.5m...........$4.4m........$5.1m
Dalvin Cook.............$5.2m...........$12.4m.....-$7.2m
Shamar Stephen.....$5.1m...........$1.3m........$3.8m
Michael Pierce.........$5m..............$9m...........$4m
Dan Bailey...............$3.8m...........$2.1m........$1.7m
Garrett Bradbury......$3.5m...........$7.6m.......-$4.1
Britton Colquitt.........$3.2m...........$1.4m........$1.8m
C.J. Ham..................$3m..............$2.25m......$750k

Overall, the Vikings are projected to be $8.4 million over the cap, given the projected $175 million cap figure. Also, keep in mind that the Vikings will need about $8 million to sign their incoming rookies.

All right, everybody. Name your cuts, keeps, extension/restructures, etc. Remember, all cuts must be made prior to June 1, or it all turns into a pumpkin driven by the Cap Hell Devil. If you want to find the numbers for lower-priced players, please refer to overthecap.com, so that we're all using the same source.

Thanks for playing!
One more question on the ground rules for this game.

Can we wait for the draft before these decisions are made?

I ask mainly because the way I see this draft shaping up alters who I might consider expendable in terms of cap numbers.

But of the players you listed, here are the ones I wouldn't touch:

Player...................CapHit........Dead........CapSavings
Kirk Cousins............$31m............$41m........-$10m
Adam Thielen..........$13.5m.........$8.5m........$5.1m
Eric Kendricks.........$12.5m.........$9.9m........$2.6m
Michael Pierce.........$5m..............$9m...........$4m
Garrett Bradbury......$3.5m...........$7.6m.......-$4.1

The others would be under consideration, largely depending on what happens in the draft.

With Hunter, the main consideration is his health, which I assume will be cleared up in the next 2-3 months. If he can't play due to health reasons he'd get an injury settlement and I'm not sure how that would impact the cap number if it would at all. I would hope that losing a player due to health reasons would free up the cap figure allocated to that player. If that were to happen with Hunter, well, all the Vikings cap issues go away right there almost. They have a big hole to fill, granted, but they'd at least be in a better position to do it.
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:52 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:14 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:46 pm
So here's the game. I'll provide the numbers, you manage the cap.

What you have below are the cap number, dead money and cap savings for each player on the 2021 Vikings with at least a $3 million cap hit. These numbers come from overthecap.com, which I highly recommend for anybody looking at cap numbers.

Some hints. If dead money exceeds cap savings, it's a net negative to cut him. If cap savings is higher than dead money, it's a net positive. And of course, if somebody has negative cap savings, that's the biggest possible deterrent from cutting them.

Player...................CapHit........Dead........CapSavings
Kirk Cousins............$31m............$41m........-$10m
Danielle Hunter........$17.75m.......$12m.........$5.75m
Anthony Barr............$15m............$7.8m........$7.2m
Riley Reiff................$13.9m.........$2.2m........$11.7m
Adam Thielen..........$13.5m.........$8.5m........$5.1m
Eric Kendricks.........$12.5m.........$9.9m........$2.6m
Kyle Rudolph...........$9.5m...........$4.4m........$5.1m
Dalvin Cook.............$5.2m...........$12.4m.....-$7.2m
Shamar Stephen.....$5.1m...........$1.3m........$3.8m
Michael Pierce.........$5m..............$9m...........$4m
Dan Bailey...............$3.8m...........$2.1m........$1.7m
Garrett Bradbury......$3.5m...........$7.6m.......-$4.1
Britton Colquitt.........$3.2m...........$1.4m........$1.8m
C.J. Ham..................$3m..............$2.25m......$750k

Overall, the Vikings are projected to be $8.4 million over the cap, given the projected $175 million cap figure. Also, keep in mind that the Vikings will need about $8 million to sign their incoming rookies.

All right, everybody. Name your cuts, keeps, extension/restructures, etc. Remember, all cuts must be made prior to June 1, or it all turns into a pumpkin driven by the Cap Hell Devil. If you want to find the numbers for lower-priced players, please refer to overthecap.com, so that we're all using the same source.

Thanks for playing!
One more question on the ground rules for this game.

Can we wait for the draft before these decisions are made?

I ask mainly because the way I see this draft shaping up alters who I might consider expendable in terms of cap numbers.

But of the players you listed, here are the ones I wouldn't touch:

Player...................CapHit........Dead........CapSavings
Kirk Cousins............$31m............$41m........-$10m
Adam Thielen..........$13.5m.........$8.5m........$5.1m
Eric Kendricks.........$12.5m.........$9.9m........$2.6m
Michael Pierce.........$5m..............$9m...........$4m
Garrett Bradbury......$3.5m...........$7.6m.......-$4.1

The others would be under consideration, largely depending on what happens in the draft.

With Hunter, the main consideration is his health, which I assume will be cleared up in the next 2-3 months. If he can't play due to health reasons he'd get an injury settlement and I'm not sure how that would impact the cap number if it would at all. I would hope that losing a player due to health reasons would free up the cap figure allocated to that player. If that were to happen with Hunter, well, all the Vikings cap issues go away right there almost. They have a big hole to fill, granted, but they'd at least be in a better position to do it.
Sure!

In fact, I'd be surprised if this didn't change following the draft.
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by Frozen Rope » Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:00 pm

chicagopurple wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:20 am
speilman will never cut Cousins, it would mean publically acknowledging his failure in judgement. No team in their right mind will take on Kirks contract either....Spielman was the only one dumb enough to go all in for a journeyman QB. We are stuck with him living in nFL limbo till Spielman is gone. Its not that important though since even if we did jettison him, ie Ziggy says, " I will take the hit", does anyone really have any faith that the current regime has any ability to draft, and grow/refine a truly great QB? When was the last time the Vikes did that? Cullpepper!! Most of our current team was in diapers back then.......real change will come with regime change.
You probably forgot the Jets offered him 90M guaranteed, but he didn’t want to play in NY. Kirk had one of his best years playing behind a line that was was rated towards the bottom of the league in pass blocking. He’s got one of the most accurate arms in the NFL. You can take out two of his picks that were Hail Marys and two that went through the receivers hands. That leaves him with 9 picks to go along with 35TD’s. Combine that with his final QBR and you’re getting everything you paid for. He’s durable, takes a beating and hasn’t missed a game in 6 years. The shiny new object is the mobile QB. You think these defenses can’t figure out that Kyler Murray loves to roll out to his right. They figure every QB out. Give Kirk a decent O line and he’ll carve up a defense. But he’s never had one and he sure as heck isn’t going to get one here. Zimmer doesn’t think it’s a priority and that’s the final word. As for Reiff, do you think you’re going to get lucky in the draft? How about Dozier? Bradbury?
They can’t pass block. The D should be better next year for all the reasons that have been shared by many, but until they fix this Oline, it doesn’t make any difference who you put under center. They don’t have a ghost of a chance. As for your other comment, I can think of 3 teams that would take Kirks salary. Shanahan is stuck with Jimmy GQ but would love to have Cousins. They have chemistry together and Kyle knows what Kirk can do. Same with McVey. He would love to dump Goff. These are teams that are built to win now. I hope something happens and a trade could be worked out. Those two guys are creative and have positive energy. Then again, what do those guys know? Wait for it! That’s right, he used to play for them. What do you think it’s like going to work for Zimmer. Sorry for going off track, but I read these posts and it’s hard for me to not to respond.
I’m a Cousin loyalist, no doubt about it.
I’d just once like to see him have a decent ordinary O line, just once in his career. But, we are all entitled to our opinions. I offer this last thought to you. You’ll never know what the potential is of any quarterback you draft is because it’s not a priority to protect him. I know all your bullet points by heart, so spare me. If the team decides to move on, so be it.
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cmoss84
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by cmoss84 » Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:15 am

Not sure where to post this question. But how many of you would trade Cousins and Rieff (or? Barr?) for Deshaun Watson? He's not a happy fellow.
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S197
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by S197 » Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:47 pm

cmoss84 wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:15 am
Not sure where to post this question. But how many of you would trade Cousins and Rieff (or? Barr?) for Deshaun Watson? He's not a happy fellow.
Yeah I'd do the trade. I think Watson is a better fit for this offense as we need a QB that can extend plays with his legs. A pocket passer isn't what this line was built for.

Both have huge contracts but looking past 2021, Watson has a much more team friendly deal. His 2022 cap his is under $11M vs Cousins who will be $45M. Watson has no guaranteed money over the next 3 years of his contract vs Cousins who will either need to be extended or signed to a new deal that will contain a significant chunk of guaranteed cash. If Watson doesn't work out, the damage long term is significantly lower than Cousins.
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by CharVike » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:11 pm

cmoss84 wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:15 am
Not sure where to post this question. But how many of you would trade Cousins and Rieff (or? Barr?) for Deshaun Watson? He's not a happy fellow.
I wouldn't want the guy. He's a public cry baby. You don't want that on your team. Not sure what he is not happy about but it's probably money. These numbers get posted on websites but I don't know how they get them. Does the NFL as a trade association need to provide them. I doubt it. Do private firms or teams need to provide them? That I know they don't. So these are pie in the sky numbers posted by someone. I read Watson will get 39 million. I'm sure others have read a different number. I'll stick with the 39 million and he's unhappy for some reason. I wouldn't give a bag of pop corn for the cry baby. Right now he has one of the best O lines in the game. What till he gets behind a piece of crap line. Those numbers will go down. They do for all when the pressure is turned up. He needs to grow up before I would want him on our team. We get a new OC every year. I'm not sure how he would deal with that. Probably cry to the media again. A big no thanks.
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