Actually, I think everyone other than our division rivals is tired of it.
I just hope the Wilfs don't make things worse or just different. If they make a move and end up hiring the next Brad Childress, that would not be an improvement.
Actually, I think everyone other than our division rivals is tired of it.
Well yes, that's what we all hope for. I think one, two or three blasé seasons and the prospect of change gets drowned out by the "it could be worse" sentiment.
This. It could be worse, but it could also be a lot better. Give me the chance at better with risk of worse every time. How much more fun was the 2006 season than this one? We stunk, but there was hope that a new HC and new quasi GM could make the team better. The same with 2014.psjordan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:27 amWell yes, that's what we all hope for. I think one, two or three blasé seasons and the prospect of change gets drowned out by the "it could be worse" sentiment.
After what, umpteen years of mostly blasé seasons (exceptions duly noted), with the most recent 7-8 being about as mediocre/soul-crushing as a hopeful team can get, well, the "it could be worse" sentiment is no more than a whisper in the desert at this point.
Like I've said in other threads, I'm even OK with a whiff or two at coaching staff or GM.
Just get me the heck off this half-speed merry-go-round, I'm constantly nauseous.
The only way off is to stop following the team, because any change that is made is likely to result in the same outcome as what we're seeing right now.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
My confidence in them making a better choice isn't high but I think they have a reasonable shot at choosing an upgrade. I'd be surprised if they made a really poor choice.I totally understand where you are coming from, and I agree the argument for a change is justified at this point.
My hope is that if the Wilfs make that change they make it better and not just different or worse. In some ways this all circles back to them and their decisions which led to the current GM and head coach and the situation the team finds itself in as a result. What confidence do you have in them to make better choices if they do decide to move on from Spielman and Childress this offseason?
Also, when do you expect they will announce those moves if they do decide to make a change?
If they decide to replace Spielman, it's essential that they move fast.I would hope it happens soon after the last game if it happens. They need to get that GM in place and he will have his work cut out for him to both find a head coach as well as start preparing for the draft and what hopefully will be a normal offseason.
The strongest argument should be made around results. When a GM or head coach receives a contract, there should be expectations built into what the owners want to see happening when those contracts are up for extension. It is similar to drafting a player. A 1st round pick gets a 4 year contract, for example. Well, what does the team need to see from that player heading into that 4th year for them to want to extend him? If he's a running back, I'm sure they want to see him leading the team in rushing and maybe competing for the league lead in rushing. If he's a WR, he should be putting up big numbers by that point in his career. Same goes for other players at other positions. If the expected production isn't there to match the team's initial evaluation when the player was signed or extended, it is time to move on and look for someone else.
It seems likely. Sigh.VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:41 pmThe only way off is to stop following the team, because any change that is made is likely to result in the same outcome as what we're seeing right now.
That isn't saying it is sure to produce that outcome - just that the odds favor it, with some smaller chance that it will get worse than it has been and an equally smaller chance it will get better.
But, as Jim Carrey's character in Dumb and Dumber famously said - "So you're telling me there's a chance...", yes, chucking Spielman and Zimmer does mean you get someone different, and sometimes someone different is cause for optimism.
I just don't think it is going to happen. I think the Wilfs will stay the course, at least for one more season.
Odds are that would be true even if they make a change.
Yes, but there might at least be a reason to believe that was a stepping stone to better results rather than part of a repeating pattern in which the Vikes make the playoffs every other year and show little to encourage fans they're ever going to go further.
Why? It's been one of the biggest question marks on the team for a decade and it's still a question mark going into next season? What could possibly give anybody confidence they're going to finally solve that problem?And on offense there is more cause for optimism than pessimism. The Vikings are loaded at the skill positions. Cousins isn't perfect, but he's capable of winning if he's put into a good situation, which he hasn't been many times this year. The OL is and will be the primary question mark heading into next season, but even there I'm optimistic.
I think that's where we part ways on Zimmer and Spielman. Under this management, I believe we've seen the best we can hope to see. Zimmer's teams, at their best, have a ceiling and I'm betting we saw the best team we're going to see from Zimmer in 2017.For me, when I look at this team I see a solid core and lots of reason to be optimistic they will emerge as strong contenders next season. Changing Spielman and Zimmer probably won't materially alter that, and it might be the spark that lights a fire and gets even more out of that core. I just don't think the Wilfs are going to do that. I think they will let it play out, and I think there is a chance the Vikings are competing for much more than just a quick playoff exit with nothing more than another solid draft and full offseason.
I see several distinct and realistic possibilities other than "stop following the team" or "get used to mediocre".
Would you settle for optimism they are going to finally solve it?
What about last year when they beat the Saints in the playoffs?
What coach could have won it all with the rosters provided Zimmer?psjordan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:54 pmI see several distinct and realistic possibilities other than "stop following the team" or "get used to mediocre".
I realize you are taking an optimistic view of the roster we have, and honestly if you told me the coaching staff has been replaced by a seemingly competent alternative, I might agree with you.
If Zimmer and staff stay however, our roster - even with all the "yeah but" players back in the fold - will continue to be Zimmed. And by that I mean absolute best best case make the NFCC and, as Emmitt would say, then "get blowed out".
My confidence in this coaching staff is entirely gone. I cannot think of one time in Zim's tenure except for the 5-6 days leading up to the PHI NFCC game where I thought, for even a fleeting instant, this coaching staff could get us to the SB.
LOL! Sure, I'll take that. It's honest.VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:06 pmWould you settle for optimism they are going to finally solve it?
Zimmer has something to do with that too. He's not simply provided rosters. He has significant input into those rosters.StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:22 pmWhat coach could have won it all with the rosters provided Zimmer?
It takes great teams to win it all, not really good, great. 2017 was close to being great, but the Philly team they faced in the playoffs was much, much better overall. Not just because of coaching either.
Zimmer's time here has run its course, but I don't see a bunch of great rosters wasted by poor coaching since he joined the team. For the most part, the rosters provided Zimmer perform as good as you would expect them too imo. Not better outside of maybe 2015 and 2017, and not worse. Not good enough coaching, but not the only reason we haven't won it all. The rest of that reason falls on the talent put on the field not being good enough.