Tell me again how Zimmer is a great coach?

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J. Kapp 11
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Re: Tell me again how Zimmer is a great coach?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:40 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:39 pm
IIsweet wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:28 am
So.... would Kirk be a better QB with an offensive minded HC ? I am sure that Zim has him managing games and has had many conversations like Bud Kilmer did with Johnny Moxon.
I just wonder that with Cousins throwing ability, which he does throw a great ball, and an offensive minded HC who says "just cut it loose Kirk", how would he respond?
Can Kirk be similar to a Kurt Warner ? JJ and Thielen similar to Holt and Bruce. Need a 3rd guy with stop and start ability. Cook similar to a Faulk. Irv and Conklin are showing really good TE skills.
Is this a possibility? Cook with 2000 scrimmage yards and JJ and AT both pushing 1200+ yards.
That would be a lot of fun to watch.
He had an offensive minded coach in Washington and he has never put up better stats than he has here.

Zimmer isn't hisnproblem.
Jeez man, you're so into stats ... LOOK THEM UP!

His stats in Washington were just as good as they were here, if not better. Of course, that's where he gained the reputation of piling up empty stats.
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Re: Tell me again how Zimmer is a great coach?

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:47 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:40 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:39 pm

He had an offensive minded coach in Washington and he has never put up better stats than he has here.

Zimmer isn't hisnproblem.
Jeez man, you're so into stats ... LOOK THEM UP!

His stats in Washington were just as good as they were here, if not better. Of course, that's where he gained the reputation of piling up empty stats.
I am into wins, something Cousins has actually done more of here, but sure, lets look at the stats.

Most yards came in 2018 with Zimmer as his HC
Most TDs came this year with Zimmer as his HC
Most wins came this year with Zimmer as his HC
Highest completion percentage came in 2018 with Zimmer as his HC
Highest TD % came this year with Zimmer as his HC
Highest YPA was this year, tied with his 2016 season and 2019 season with Zimmer as his HC.
Highest rated season was last year with Zimmer as his HC.
Highest aggressiveness % (throws into a tight window) came this year with Zimmer as his HC.

Now what are the stats to back up the claim that Zimmer is holding him back? Do you have any evidence at all to back it up, cause otherwise it is just an opinion based on perception, perception of games of Cousins time in Washington that most people on here didn't watch I might add.

There are a lot of valid criticism of Zimmer, but holding back his QB is not one of them. There is virtually no evidence of that with any of the QBs he has coached that I have found, but I am all for reading what you got to back up the claim.
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Re: Tell me again how Zimmer is a great coach?

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:54 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:29 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:56 pm

Do you have numbers to backup the gunslinger thing?

Statistically, Cousins has become a much, much better deep ball thrower since he came here and throws it deep more. His YPA is the highest it has ever been and he is throwing a lot of ints. All point to him still being a gunslinger.

Cousins has not regressed since joining the Vikings, he has got better. The problem is that better from where he was still isn't good enough.
Nope. No numbers. I just watch a lot of football. And highlights. Social media.

But since you bring it up, how about the simple number of attempts year-over-year? Down from 606 to 449 in one year, a 25% drop in attempts. Then there's the fact that his 7.7 YPA during his three years in Minnesota is actually less than his 7.8 YPA during his three years as a full-time starter in Washington. And by the way, his 8.1 YPA this year is exactly the same as it was last year, and exactly the same as it was in 2016 in Washington, only with 150 more attempts in Washington.

And for the record, I never said Cousins was better in Washington. I never said he was a better deep ball thrower or any of those other things. I said he was more of a gunslinger. Less inhibited. Not ZImmerized.
Sorry, missed this and responded to your other post.

Numbers I can work with. Biased perception I cannot, and as hard as people try to be unbiased, it is impossible.

Let's dig into the passing attempts number. Do you think we had a good offense in 2018 when Cousins was allowed to throw a ton of passes? Or was the offense better in 2019 when he threw 449 times? Heck, which year do you think Cousins was the better QB, 2018 or 2019? Seems to me Cousins plays better when he has a RB taking the majority of pressure off of his shoulders. Something Zimmer recognized pretty early and something I don't blame him for. Do you?
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Re: Tell me again how Zimmer is a great coach?

Post by Poophead » Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:34 pm

Yeah, but he's getting them back to playing viking football.
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Re: Tell me again how Zimmer is a great coach?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:35 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:54 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:29 pm

Nope. No numbers. I just watch a lot of football. And highlights. Social media.

But since you bring it up, how about the simple number of attempts year-over-year? Down from 606 to 449 in one year, a 25% drop in attempts. Then there's the fact that his 7.7 YPA during his three years in Minnesota is actually less than his 7.8 YPA during his three years as a full-time starter in Washington. And by the way, his 8.1 YPA this year is exactly the same as it was last year, and exactly the same as it was in 2016 in Washington, only with 150 more attempts in Washington.

And for the record, I never said Cousins was better in Washington. I never said he was a better deep ball thrower or any of those other things. I said he was more of a gunslinger. Less inhibited. Not ZImmerized.
Sorry, missed this and responded to your other post.

Numbers I can work with. Biased perception I cannot, and as hard as people try to be unbiased, it is impossible.

Let's dig into the passing attempts number. Do you think we had a good offense in 2018 when Cousins was allowed to throw a ton of passes? Or was the offense better in 2019 when he threw 449 times? Heck, which year do you think Cousins was the better QB, 2018 or 2019? Seems to me Cousins plays better when he has a RB taking the majority of pressure off of his shoulders. Something Zimmer recognized pretty early and something I don't blame him for. Do you?
The very statement that any non-statistically based opinion constitutes biased perception IS, in and of itself, a biased perception.

And you know what? I don’t mind. Analyze things however you want. Just get your facts straight if you’re going to do it, especially if you’re going to claim superiority over people who don’t bow to the PFF altar (or care to pay for their services). You said Cousins had his biggest yardage season with the Vikings, which is not only not true, it’s not even close to true.

And by the way, I wasn’t talking about the Vikings offense. I was talking about Cousins, specifically the first 8 games of 2018. Statistically, he was on pace for 5,000+ yards, 30+ TDs and fewer than 10 picks. The Vikings were 4-3-1 and would’ve been 5-3 if not for Daniel Carlson, a game in which Cousins did what people said he couldn’t do, which was put the team on his back. He singlehandedly kept the Vikings in the game against the Rams, but his genius coach couldn’t stop LA from scoring at will. Yes, he sucked against Buffalo. I never said he was perfect. He just wasn’t yet scared to be a quarterback like he is now.

That, of course, is just my biased perception.
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Re: Tell me again how Zimmer is a great coach?

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:02 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:35 pm

The very statement that any non-statistically based opinion constitutes biased perception IS, in and of itself, a biased perception.

I didn't say any non-statistical based opinions are biased, I stated all opinions are.
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:35 pm
And by the way, I wasn’t talking about the Vikings offense. I was talking about Cousins, specifically the first 8 games of 2018. Statistically, he was on pace for 5,000+ yards, 30+ TDs and fewer than 10 picks. The Vikings were 4-3-1 and would’ve been 5-3 if not for Daniel Carlson, a game in which Cousins did what people said he couldn’t do, which was put the team on his back. He singlehandedly kept the Vikings in the game against the Rams, but his genius coach couldn’t stop LA from scoring at will. Yes, he sucked against Buffalo. I never said he was perfect. He just wasn’t yet scared to be a quarterback like he is now.
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:35 pm
That, of course, is just my biased perception.
Clearly.

Curious why you would use the first 8 games of 2018, when DeFelipo wasn't fired until after week 14 for not running the football enough? Seems just a tinge cherry picked.

During that season Dalvin Cook ran the ball 15+ times exactly 3 times, all three were wins. Cousins threw the ball 40+ times 7 times, and was 1-5-1 in those games (the only win coming against the Jets). In games Cousins threw fewer than 40 times the Vikings were 7-2. Fewer than 30 times they were 3-0. Doesn't seem like throwing the ball a lot was the key to victory in 2018. Heck even if we split up the games the way you want to first 8 versus 2nd 8, it is 4-3-1 versus 4-4. Wow, what a big difference that is.


J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:35 pm
And you know what? I don’t mind. Analyze things however you want. Just get your facts straight if you’re going to do it, especially if you’re going to claim superiority over people who don’t bow to the PFF altar (or care to pay for their services). You said Cousins had his biggest yardage season with the Vikings, which is not only not true, it’s not even close to true.
I posted one stat above that was from PFF, the deep ball stat, something that is concrete, verifiable and not an opinion. Also, I would never pay for PFF and they are not the final word on how well a player is playing. They are just a piece to a puzzle, often a misused piece, but a piece.

I did incorrectly post his biggest yardage season was with the Vikings when in reality his 2nd biggest yardage season was with them. His 8-7-1 2016 season was the season he threw for his most yards. Does that error change the overwhelming evidence that Zimmer is getting the most of Cousins of any coach who has coached him?
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