2021 Draft

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S197
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Re: 2021 Draft

Post by S197 » Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:05 pm

Boon wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:48 pm
S197 wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:34 pm
I really don’t like Fields, I don’t think his play will translate well to the NFL.
His entire game is literally like kyler murray wasbin college. I dont see how it doesn't translate.
I disagree. Murray while undersized was incredibly accurate in college with over 4,000 yards and 40+ TDs with much less talent around him. Fields looks closer to Hurts to me.
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Re: 2021 Draft

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:24 am

S197 wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:05 pm
Boon wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:48 pm

His entire game is literally like kyler murray wasbin college. I dont see how it doesn't translate.
I disagree. Murray while undersized was incredibly accurate in college with over 4,000 yards and 40+ TDs with much less talent around him. Fields looks closer to Hurts to me.
I don't see Fields being like either.

Both those guys are running quarterbacks. Murray is more fast and elusive, while Hurts is a battering ram, strong as an ox. But both of them feature running as a big part of their games. Fields seems to be a pure passing QB. Murray has excellent throwing skills, maybe throws the best ball in the league when he's healthy, but running is a huge part of his game. My limited experience watching Fields doesn't indicate that. He throws downfield a lot from the pocket.
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Re: 2021 Draft

Post by psjordan » Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:32 pm

S197 wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:34 pm
I really don’t like Fields, I don’t think his play will translate well to the NFL.
Agreed, to me he's a slightly better version of Dwayne Haskins on the field. Now, he may absolutely flourish in the NFL with a young, not-too-far-removed-from-college coaching staff. But he would wither and die on the vine here in Minny IMO.

One of my worries on selecting an early QB (and we will, as soon as Lucy keeps the ball held for Charlie Brown), is that there is literally not one coach on this staff that can relate to a kid QB and help him develop. None, zero, nada. Klint Kubiak, who has only ever been hired in the NFL by his father (and IMO has less than zero credentials to be a QB coach in the NFL) is the Invisible Man as far as I can tell.

This bullsh$$T of having 3-4 sons of coaches on our coaching staff is out of hand AFAIC. It's ridiculous. Tell your kids to go work somewhere else first - if anyone will hire you - and then come back with a bunch of successes under your belt.

Speaking of invisible coaches, what in the HECK is Dom Capers role this season?

One of the telltale signs that a staff is below average is when players and close team contacts NEVER EVER mention them.

Geez my thoughts are scattered all over the room here, I'm still peeved over yesterday.

Back to the draft. I don't want Fields either, not that we will get a shot at him, so, moot point.

[sarcasm] I'm sure there will be a dynamite DB on the board when we pick in RD1 :rock: [/sarcasm]
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Re: 2021 Draft

Post by S197 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:47 pm

psjordan wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:32 pm
S197 wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:34 pm
I really don’t like Fields, I don’t think his play will translate well to the NFL.
Agreed, to me he's a slightly better version of Dwayne Haskins on the field. Now, he may absolutely flourish in the NFL with a young, not-too-far-removed-from-college coaching staff. But he would wither and die on the vine here in Minny IMO.

One of my worries on selecting an early QB (and we will, as soon as Lucy keeps the ball held for Charlie Brown), is that there is literally not one coach on this staff that can relate to a kid QB and help him develop. None, zero, nada. Klint Kubiak, who has only ever been hired in the NFL by his father (and IMO has less than zero credentials to be a QB coach in the NFL) is the Invisible Man as far as I can tell.

This bullsh$$T of having 3-4 sons of coaches on our coaching staff is out of hand AFAIC. It's ridiculous. Tell your kids to go work somewhere else first - if anyone will hire you - and then come back with a bunch of successes under your belt.

Speaking of invisible coaches, what in the HECK is Dom Capers role this season?

One of the telltale signs that a staff is below average is when players and close team contacts NEVER EVER mention them.

Geez my thoughts are scattered all over the room here, I'm still peeved over yesterday.

Back to the draft. I don't want Fields either, not that we will get a shot at him, so, moot point.

[sarcasm] I'm sure there will be a dynamite DB on the board when we pick in RD1 :rock: [/sarcasm]
Haskins is a good comparison. Your point about the coaching staff is also valid, to be honest I totally forgot Capers was even on staff. Zimmer likes a lot of HCs on his staff but it could be a case of too many chefs in the kitchen.

I think if the pattern holds this year we’re supposed to draft a LB to replace Barr. It’s like being stuck in the Groundshog Day movie.
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Re: 2021 Draft

Post by psjordan » Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:13 pm

S197 wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:47 pm
I think if the pattern holds this year we’re supposed to draft a LB to replace Barr. It’s like being stuck in the Groundshog Day movie.
Ned? Ned Ryerson, is that you?!? Do you play LB?
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Re: 2021 Draft

Post by VikingLord » Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:06 pm

VikingPaul73 wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:37 am
Obviously it's difficult to call the biggest D draft needs until we see what they do with their own FAs (Wilson, Harris) and high price tags (Barr) but right now I would put their top 5 D needs in this order:
1. DT
2. S (assuming Harris is gone)
3. DE
4. CB
5. LB (assuming they keep 1 of Barr/Wilson)
This is not a great draft for interior DL prospects. There are some intriguing ones for sure, but it's been a spotty year at that position for prospects entering the draft. Of course, it also depends on what kind of player the Vikings are looking for - a multi-purpose interior player or an anchor against the run. With Michael Pierce likely to be back in action next season and hopefully capable of playing at the same level he was prior to sitting out this season, I think if the Vikings are going interior DL in the draft it should be no sooner than round 4. Kwity Paye would be my choice at this position in the 1st round, but he's unlikely to be on the board when the Vikings pick.

Safety is probably higher on the priority list, but I wouldn't put it at #2 on the list. Also, as you note a lot depends on what happens with Harris. If I were the Vikes I'd let him see what he can get on the FA market and match if it makes sense. I don't see a safety prospect worth a top 15 choice in this year's draft. It would be a huge reach for the Vikings to take one with their first choice.

This is a better draft for DE talent, but here too a lot depends on whether Hunter returns and is as effective as he was before his injury. Based on what I've read about his injury there is a good chance he might not play again, but if he does I'd say the Vikings are most likely to find value at DE in the upcoming draft with one of their two 3rd rounders. A possible 1st rounder who might be on the board where the Vikings pick is Carlos Besham.

CB is an area where I wouldn't be shocked to see Zimmer and Spielman make a play, but we're most likely talking 5th round at that position. A possible 1st rounder at CB where the Vikings pick would be Surtain II. Jaycee Horn is likely to go top 10, but if he lasts he'd be a great choice as well.

LB is a position where I could see the Vikings being tempted with their 1st rounder. It depends on how things shake out, but as it sits the Vikings are looking at a draft position between 10-15. That puts them in contention for Micah Parsons, who I think would make an excellent 1st round choice if they chose to go defense. While Parsons is unlikely to make it past pick #10, if the Vikings finish 7-9 as it's now looking they will do, they'll have a realistic shot at him if they want to bolster their linebacking corps.

I still think OL is by far their greatest overall need right now. Even if we can assume that Bradbury, O'Neill and Cleveland are locked in for next year, Reiff might not be and I think Dozier is a backup. Further, there are several OL prospects in that 10-15 range that look pretty good. I'd like to see if Spielman can ideally find a guard who can thrive in the zone blocking scheme and pass protect, and Rashawn Slater is the guy I'd target because I think he fits the bill perfectly. He's likely to be a Day One starter who might not dominate right away, but can develop quickly into a stalwart on interior OL.
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Re: 2021 Draft

Post by VikingLord » Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:08 pm

psjordan wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:13 pm
S197 wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:47 pm
I think if the pattern holds this year we’re supposed to draft a LB to replace Barr. It’s like being stuck in the Groundshog Day movie.
Ned? Ned Ryerson, is that you?!? Do you play LB?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: 2021 Draft

Post by YikesVikes » Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:42 pm

VikingPaul73 wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:59 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:35 pm


I think AT is going to decline faster than many think.
not arguing but just curious why you'd say that? To me, AT has the type of skills and route running to play for several more years. He might turn more and more into a possession WR and less of a deep threat, but to me he's not the type to have a dramatic drop off. The WRs that rely purely on speed and aren't crafty or good route runners are the ones that have dramatic declines.....once they lose a little speed it completely changes their game
All WRs decline. Wes Welker was done at 32 - 33. Its always a risk and he is the caliber of player that you cant pass on for an above-average guard/DT. I always go back to the Cardinals pick in 2007. They needed a RT (to protect Lienhart's blind side) and selected Levi Brown over Peterson. You can't tell me that their offense wouldn't have been better served with AP/ FItz / Boldin and Warner over the addition of Brown (who turned out ok). Once near generational players superseded need.
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Re: 2021 Draft

Post by YikesVikes » Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:44 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:24 am
S197 wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:05 pm


I disagree. Murray while undersized was incredibly accurate in college with over 4,000 yards and 40+ TDs with much less talent around him. Fields looks closer to Hurts to me.
I don't see Fields being like either.

Both those guys are running quarterbacks. Murray is more fast and elusive, while Hurts is a battering ram, strong as an ox. But both of them feature running as a big part of their games. Fields seems to be a pure passing QB. Murray has excellent throwing skills, maybe throws the best ball in the league when he's healthy, but running is a huge part of his game. My limited experience watching Fields doesn't indicate that. He throws downfield a lot from the pocket.
I thinks Murray is a passer. He rushes because he is that darn fast. However, he gets out the pocket to pass and then takes off when he deems nothing is there. If he was truly a rusher... he would be over 1000 this season. The guy is that crazy.
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Re: 2021 Draft

Post by makila » Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:42 pm

I've been fortunate to be fairly close to the OU program for about 20 years now. Murray is a passing QB who can run. His all-round athletic ability always puts him in the "running QB" bucket. He can stay in the pocket and sling it with the best if he has time. Murray has multiple throwing angles and release points he knows how to use to his advantage (hello baseball). He can make touch throws, and completely understands timing and route running. Guy is smart. Then he can turn around and accelerate to full speed in basically 1.5 steps. Its insane, very shifty as well. I've never seen a more gifted athlete in person, and that includes AD. Much more accurate of a passer than Hurts was during time at OU. Murray left the program easily as a more complete QB. Hurts only got to play one season here to work with Riley. Now if Hurts was coming at you with a head of steam, I'd run the other way, cause he is going to punish you. Love seeing the past 3 QBs from OU all starting currently in the NFL. They all excelled at something a little different. : )

I haven't seen enough of Fields to formulate an nfl draft opinion. Most seem to think he'll do well. I want to watch critical film on him before forming an opinion.

We're going to have to address QB, beyond a 7th round pick. There's the guy out of ND State that some people like (Trey Lance). I've seen nothing of him. There's still a few games to be played, and the draft is months out, I wouldn't be surprised if Lawrence, Fields, and Lance are all gone by first 10 picks. There's also the BYU QB.

We need to address OG, and potentially OT depending on what their plans are with Reiff. I know those aren't the fancy positions. Defense has holes across the board, DT and DE the most pressing imo. Need some depth at WR too.
psjordan wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:32 pm

Speaking of invisible coaches, what in the HECK is Dom Capers role this season?
I forgot he was on the coaching staff. Not a great sign of resource allocation.
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Re: 2021 Draft

Post by S197 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:37 pm

psjordan wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:13 pm
S197 wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:47 pm
I think if the pattern holds this year we’re supposed to draft a LB to replace Barr. It’s like being stuck in the Groundshog Day movie.
Ned? Ned Ryerson, is that you?!? Do you play LB?
:lol:

Rousseau is the most intriguing prospect this year to me. I think if he didn’t opt out, there’s no chance he’s around when the Vikings pick but with only 1 year of production, teams may get gun shy. I’d roll the dice regardless of Hunter’s status.
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Re: 2021 Draft

Post by 4mnvikings82 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:09 pm

What spot do you think Notre Dame qb Ian Book will go at?
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Re: 2021 Draft

Post by VikingPaul73 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:17 am

YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:42 pm
VikingPaul73 wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:59 pm


not arguing but just curious why you'd say that? To me, AT has the type of skills and route running to play for several more years. He might turn more and more into a possession WR and less of a deep threat, but to me he's not the type to have a dramatic drop off. The WRs that rely purely on speed and aren't crafty or good route runners are the ones that have dramatic declines.....once they lose a little speed it completely changes their game
All WRs decline. Wes Welker was done at 32 - 33. Its always a risk and he is the caliber of player that you cant pass on for an above-average guard/DT. I always go back to the Cardinals pick in 2007. They needed a RT (to protect Lienhart's blind side) and selected Levi Brown over Peterson. You can't tell me that their offense wouldn't have been better served with AP/ FItz / Boldin and Warner over the addition of Brown (who turned out ok). Once near generational players superseded need.
gotcha, and I agree if the brass believes he's a generational talent like AD or Moss, then by all means go for it!!
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Re: 2021 Draft

Post by VikingPaul73 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:38 am

VikingLord wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:06 pm
LB is a position where I could see the Vikings being tempted with their 1st rounder. It depends on how things shake out, but as it sits the Vikings are looking at a draft position between 10-15. That puts them in contention for Micah Parsons, who I think would make an excellent 1st round choice if they chose to go defense. While Parsons is unlikely to make it past pick #10, if the Vikings finish 7-9 as it's now looking they will do, they'll have a realistic shot at him if they want to bolster their linebacking corps.

I still think OL is by far their greatest overall need right now. Even if we can assume that Bradbury, O'Neill and Cleveland are locked in for next year, Reiff might not be and I think Dozier is a backup. Further, there are several OL prospects in that 10-15 range that look pretty good. I'd like to see if Spielman can ideally find a guard who can thrive in the zone blocking scheme and pass protect, and Rashawn Slater is the guy I'd target because I think he fits the bill perfectly. He's likely to be a Day One starter who might not dominate right away, but can develop quickly into a stalwart on interior OL.
Thanks VL, great post!

I hope they keep Reiff this year but plan for him to be gone in 2022. I really hope they extend O'Neill so that would give them their bookends assuming Ezra is moved over to OT for 2022 and beyond. That leaves 2 glaring holes at OG for 2022 and 1 next year. So definitely a huge need for this year and after. With Conklin playing pretty well, maybe they can restructure or release Rudolph and use the $$ on a decent OG in FA and then draft another early (and maybe a TE in 3rd or 4th)....I know there are a lot of questions on cap next year, and they love Rudy so I'm not sure this option is realistic.

It sounds like you know WWAAAAYYYY more about the upcoming draft than I do, but what about a guy like Jaylen Twyman at DT in the 1st? I would be happy with either DT or OL with their 1st pick depending on how they have available players graded (don't reach for a 2nd round grade just because they want a DT)

LB - I agree it could be a need if they release Barr for cap reasons, especially if Wilson signs elsewhere. Maybe they should have the draft BEFORE FA starts so teams can plug holes after the draft (you never know how a draft will unfold) :v): :v):

Imagine how this board will melt down if they take a CB with their 1st :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: 2021 Draft

Post by psjordan » Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:49 am

4mnvikings82 wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:09 pm
What spot do you think Notre Dame qb Ian Book will go at?
He's projected late rounds or undrafted FA. Honestly I hope we pass on him, unless of course we are trying to get a euchre foursome of useless QB's on our practice squad.
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