A must read piece, by Tyler Dunne

[CharVike]

Any time I read about Mike Zimmer, its about he's ferocious and surly and a Hardass Drill Sergeant. You have to do 100 things right or you're benched, show me the results...but Zimmer and Spielman and Cousins doesn't practice what Zimmer preaches. Its the Trio of Rules For Thee, Not for Me. The Wilfs let these guys off the hook. All of them should have had a dose of what Zimmer has been dishing out with meager results in 2020 as a contract year season. Instead, they all got contract extensions.

Remember when Childress was talking about the Triangle of Accountability? This is the Triangle of No Accountability in some Mutually Assured Destruction pact against a hands-off, feckless ownership. The Triangle of M.A.D.

How did they let them off the hook? The stadium is a sell out. The Wilfs are not in this to lose every nickle they have. The current product has been selling out the stadium. If every fan felt the product was terrible the place would have about 20000 people at each game. Then they would be gone. I've been a fan since 1971 and I'm running out of time for a Super Bowl. The new coach in Green Bay is considered great and he to just got his arse kicked out in SF also. And that's with the best NFC QB. I wouldn't want that guy. It's no different. The guy from the Saints is considered one of the best ever. Zim beat him last year in his backyard. I wouldn't want that guy. I don't see the next Lambardi out there. Maybe you do. Obviously the Wilfs don't see it either.

[CharVike]

I’ve made it abundantly clear I want to move on from Zimmer (and Rick). So with that qualification in mind, I’ll say that I think the article has merit. We don’t have the insight of the locker room but there is a lot of things we know that leads one down the road the author is taking us.

Let’s start with Yannick. He was tired of the dysfunction in Jacksonville and seemed to buy into the Vikings culture. A defensive minded head coach that has had a lot of success coaching up edge rushers. And in a matter of weeks, maybe a month, he had seen enough and was out. Think about that, from happy to be here, to trade me I’m not signing a long term deal in a couple weeks. That’s a lot of smoke.

How about Rhodes, Waynes, and Alexander. We knew we would lose at least one maybe two of them. But all 3? Show me a single post on this forum that predicted that. Or what about Harris not signing a long term deal and needing to be tagged? Then there’s Zimmer’s open criticism of Barr. His slight against Everson that he took great exception to and of course, Diggs. And before we talk about Diggs being a diva, let’s not forget Thielen’s open frustration on the sidelines and screaming matches with Cousins. That’s just a lot of smoke to me for there to not be some sort of fire. The author’s point about the many exodus’s of coaches is also telling.

If Zimmer is a guy where you’re in or out, where lining up a few inches wrong is enough to get chastised, then that sort of preparation can’t end with him. You can’t act like General Patton and then lose the big battles. Look, 31 teams are going to lose their last game of the year but how this team loses is a big problem. You can’t lose big to Nick Foles, Mitch Trubisky, and Jimmy G in three consecutive years and expect people to keep buying in.

I think Zimmer’s shiny new defense carried him for the first few years and players bought in. But when the chinks in the armor started getting revealed, rather than adapt, he pointed fingers. And that doesn’t even touch on the fact that he’s the HEAD coach. Not the DC. The offense and special teams are also units he is accountable for. Zimmer isn’t a bad coach, but he’s stubborn and antiquated. If he runs this team as a boot camp, and players bought in, then how is it they are so badly outmatched in big games? Something doesn’t add up.

Concerning Yannick. You make stuff up. Under Zimmers coaching the stiff had 5 sacks in 6 games. He was heading for a career high under Zimmer and that was in a new scheme wih little or no practice time. That's not the play of an unhappy guy. Under his new team with a better coach he isn't doing anything. Rick and Zim did the young man a favor and traded him to the team he wanted to be with from day 1. Before Jax. This was not an unhappy ending and Rick did the best he could to get something back.The guy wasn't a long term fit for us. Now we can play the kids which is how it should be at this point. I think Foles also beat Belichick in the Super Bowl. The guy got hot at the right time. But I agree he's a bum. Tribisky rides a dominate D. We beat Rodgers this year after he tore the new guys a new one earlier. They didn't buy in at first but now they are I guess. I understand you want Zim out which is ok but who is the next new shinny GM/HC you think will get us to the show soon.

[CharVike]

Man, Bill Belichick must be a Saint compared to Zim.

These guy's think the only successful HCs were guys that walked around on egg shells and let the players walk all over them. Like Lombardi.

[S197]

I’ve made it abundantly clear I want to move on from Zimmer (and Rick). So with that qualification in mind, I’ll say that I think the article has merit. We don’t have the insight of the locker room but there is a lot of things we know that leads one down the road the author is taking us.

Let’s start with Yannick. He was tired of the dysfunction in Jacksonville and seemed to buy into the Vikings culture. A defensive minded head coach that has had a lot of success coaching up edge rushers. And in a matter of weeks, maybe a month, he had seen enough and was out. Think about that, from happy to be here, to trade me I’m not signing a long term deal in a couple weeks. That’s a lot of smoke.

How about Rhodes, Waynes, and Alexander. We knew we would lose at least one maybe two of them. But all 3? Show me a single post on this forum that predicted that. Or what about Harris not signing a long term deal and needing to be tagged? Then there’s Zimmer’s open criticism of Barr. His slight against Everson that he took great exception to and of course, Diggs. And before we talk about Diggs being a diva, let’s not forget Thielen’s open frustration on the sidelines and screaming matches with Cousins. That’s just a lot of smoke to me for there to not be some sort of fire. The author’s point about the many exodus’s of coaches is also telling.

If Zimmer is a guy where you’re in or out, where lining up a few inches wrong is enough to get chastised, then that sort of preparation can’t end with him. You can’t act like General Patton and then lose the big battles. Look, 31 teams are going to lose their last game of the year but how this team loses is a big problem. You can’t lose big to Nick Foles, Mitch Trubisky, and Jimmy G in three consecutive years and expect people to keep buying in.

I think Zimmer’s shiny new defense carried him for the first few years and players bought in. But when the chinks in the armor started getting revealed, rather than adapt, he pointed fingers. And that doesn’t even touch on the fact that he’s the HEAD coach. Not the DC. The offense and special teams are also units he is accountable for. Zimmer isn’t a bad coach, but he’s stubborn and antiquated. If he runs this team as a boot camp, and players bought in, then how is it they are so badly outmatched in big games? Something doesn’t add up.

Concerning Yannick. You make stuff up. Under Zimmers coaching the stiff had 5 sacks in 6 games. He was heading for a career high under Zimmer and that was in a new scheme wih little or no practice time. That's not the play of an unhappy guy. Under his new team with a better coach he isn't doing anything. Rick and Zim did the young man a favor and traded him to the team he wanted to be with from day 1. Before Jax. This was not an unhappy ending and Rick did the best he could to get something back.The guy wasn't a long term fit for us. Now we can play the kids which is how it should be at this point. I think Foles also beat Belichick in the Super Bowl. The guy got hot at the right time. But I agree he's a bum. Tribisky rides a dominate D. We beat Rodgers this year after he tore the new guys a new one earlier. They didn't buy in at first but now they are I guess. I understand you want Zim out which is ok but who is the next new shinny GM/HC you think will get us to the show soon.

What did I make up? If Yannick played so great here and was so happy, then why did he get traded for lesser picks in a month? It's obvious he told the front office he's not signing here next year and so they shipped him off to recoup whatever they could.

[CharVike]

Concerning Yannick. You make stuff up. Under Zimmers coaching the stiff had 5 sacks in 6 games. He was heading for a career high under Zimmer and that was in a new scheme wih little or no practice time. That's not the play of an unhappy guy. Under his new team with a better coach he isn't doing anything. Rick and Zim did the young man a favor and traded him to the team he wanted to be with from day 1. Before Jax. This was not an unhappy ending and Rick did the best he could to get something back.The guy wasn't a long term fit for us. Now we can play the kids which is how it should be at this point. I think Foles also beat Belichick in the Super Bowl. The guy got hot at the right time. But I agree he's a bum. Tribisky rides a dominate D. We beat Rodgers this year after he tore the new guys a new one earlier. They didn't buy in at first but now they are I guess. I understand you want Zim out which is ok but who is the next new shinny GM/HC you think will get us to the show soon.

What did I make up? If Yannick played so great here and was so happy, then why did he get traded for lesser picks in a month? It's obvious he told the front office he's not signing here next year and so they shipped him off to recoup whatever they could.

You want to give Rick blame. He made a bad move on both sides I won't deny that. Some trades don't work out. This team was 1 and 5 with him. They have improved since he left. Maybe his removal helped and they knew it would.

[S197]

What did I make up? If Yannick played so great here and was so happy, then why did he get traded for lesser picks in a month? It's obvious he told the front office he's not signing here next year and so they shipped him off to recoup whatever they could.

You want to give Rick blame. He made a bad move on both sides I won't deny that. Some trades don't work out. This team was 1 and 5 with him. They have improved since he left. Maybe his removal helped and they knew it would.

So you agree that he made bad moves on both sides but think he doesn’t deserve blame? That’s very confusing.

[fiestavike]

You want to give Rick blame. He made a bad move on both sides I won't deny that. Some trades don't work out. This team was 1 and 5 with him. They have improved since he left. Maybe his removal helped and they knew it would.

So you agree that he made bad moves on both sides but think he doesn’t deserve blame? That’s very confusing.

I think there is a distinction between bad decisions and decisions that don't work out well. To be sure, Rick has made many bad decisions in my view. The trade for Ngokoue may well have been such a mistake. Some mistakes might be large enough that in and of themselves, they should get a GM fired. The Hershel Walker trade, the Ricky Williams trade...these were colossally bad moves. In my view, the Sam Bradford trade was Rick's single worst decision as a GM.

But, there is also a tendency among fans to write off bad outcomes as bad decisions, and I think that is muddled thinking. As an example, criticizing the trade back and collect picks philosophy on the basis that 2020 was going to be a weird season that might see little opportunity for down roster guys to find a route onto the team, is, I think, a good example of a justified criticism of a bad decision. Criticizing trading back and collecting picks generally on the basis that 'those guys didn't pan out' in 2020 is a good example of unjustified criticism based on outcome. In 2020 that may have been obvious and a foreseeable outcome, but the valid criticism is more of the decision than the outcome.

[S197]

So you agree that he made bad moves on both sides but think he doesn’t deserve blame? That’s very confusing.

I think there is a distinction between bad decisions and decisions that don't work out well. To be sure, Rick has made many bad decisions in my view. The trade for Ngokoue may well have been such a mistake. Some mistakes might be large enough that in and of themselves, they should get a GM fired. The Hershel Walker trade, the Ricky Williams trade...these were colossally bad moves. In my view, the Sam Bradford trade was Rick's single worst decision as a GM.

But, there is also a tendency among fans to write off bad outcomes as bad decisions, and I think that is muddled thinking. As an example, criticizing the trade back and collect picks philosophy on the basis that 2020 was going to be a weird season that might see little opportunity for down roster guys to find a route onto the team, is, I think, a good example of a justified criticism of a bad decision. Criticizing trading back and collecting picks generally on the basis that 'those guys didn't pan out' in 2020 is a good example of unjustified criticism based on outcome. In 2020 that may have been obvious and a foreseeable outcome, but the valid criticism is more of the decision than the outcome.

I agree with you but his comment was, "I want to give Rick blame" for the trade. If not Rick, then who? I never said that was the sole basis as to why I want to move on from him, it was just my first point of several as to why I felt the article could have merit.

[fiestavike]

I think there is a distinction between bad decisions and decisions that don't work out well. To be sure, Rick has made many bad decisions in my view. The trade for Ngokoue may well have been such a mistake. Some mistakes might be large enough that in and of themselves, they should get a GM fired. The Hershel Walker trade, the Ricky Williams trade...these were colossally bad moves. In my view, the Sam Bradford trade was Rick's single worst decision as a GM.

But, there is also a tendency among fans to write off bad outcomes as bad decisions, and I think that is muddled thinking. As an example, criticizing the trade back and collect picks philosophy on the basis that 2020 was going to be a weird season that might see little opportunity for down roster guys to find a route onto the team, is, I think, a good example of a justified criticism of a bad decision. Criticizing trading back and collecting picks generally on the basis that 'those guys didn't pan out' in 2020 is a good example of unjustified criticism based on outcome. In 2020 that may have been obvious and a foreseeable outcome, but the valid criticism is more of the decision than the outcome.

I agree with you but his comment was, "I want to give Rick blame" for the trade. If not Rick, then who? I never said that was the sole basis as to why I want to move on from him, it was just my first point of several as to why I felt the article could have merit.

Absolutely. I wasn't trying to argue with anyone's take in particular, just introduce an idea I thought might generally aid discussion of the topic at hand should it go further.

[S197]