'Hey, Teddy': Vikings Laud Bridgewater Before QB's Return to Play Minnesota

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Re: 'Hey, Teddy': Vikings Laud Bridgewater Before QB's Return to Play Minnesota

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:51 am

S197 wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:29 pm
psjordan wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:37 pm


Overall I'd love to have a "better" QB situation on our team, but I really think "competent and above" QB's and their agents by far have the upper hand nowadays. "Extended too early with a sweetheart deal" is definitely not outside the norm from a typical NFL team's fans perspective.

I just think almost every NFL team has to live with bull@!#$ contracts for their QB. Very, very few starting, veteran QB contracts have been "team friendly" in the last 10 years outside of the Brady years in NE.

Forgetting rookie contracts, I think there's only two groups of QB's out there, and one group is mighty small. Mahomes and Rogers, maybe one could argue Rothlisberger/Wilson - have contracts that seem like "we can't pay this guy enough" to their fan bases. I feel like you are chiding Rick because we don't have a QB in this group, which is exceptionally talented and exceptionally small.

The other group of QBs, Cousins/Goff/Wentz/Brees/Bridgewater/Tannehill/Ryan/Garoppollo/Stafford/Carr etc., and even TB Brady, all seem like "sweetheart deals" to me (IOW seemingly paid too much vs production) and I'd guess most of their fan base feels the same. I mean Stafford has a $135M contract $92M guaranteed, and has never won a playoff game, but we constantly paintball Spielman for our QB situation?

I just think it's the market for guys who can play QB well enough to start in the NFL. You HAVE to extend them with "too much" money and "too much" guaranteed.

As fans we just have to hold our noses on what our QB is making. Just like about 28 other teams. IMO anyways.
I'd probably put Brees in the top tier, granted he's on the decline but he's still extremely productive. And I get your point, due to the importance of the position, QB's are always going to get big contracts that seem ridiculous at signing. But Cousins is next level. Lets take a look at contracts by their largest cap number:

Kirk Cousins: $45 million
Matt Stafford: $33 million
Goff: $34.6 million
Wentz: $34.6 million
Bridgewater: $26 million
Tannehill: $34 million
Ryan: $41.6 million
Garoppolo: $27 million
Carr: $22.1 million

Stafford has been bleeding the Lions for a long time now. And they're not exactly the franchise I think the Vikings want to emulate. Matt Ryan did a number of restructurings to help with their cap situation but his contract is still obviously weighing them down. Another franchise I don't think should be emulated. And keep in mind Cousins' extension came on the heels of a 3-year 100% fully guaranteed no-trade contract. Something that has never happened in the NFL before.

Not even guys like Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers are going to make over $40 million. We're literally paying our QB like he's Patrick Mahomes. And here's the other thing, not all of those contracts above are guaranteed like Cousins' contract will. Not effectively two years before they start. The only other team that's somewhat in a similar situation is the Falcons with Ryan and they're a 4-win team because of it. Now, you could argue that the Vikings don't pay Cousins $45 million, they could do ANOTHER extension and lower the cap that year. But as I mentioned in a previous post, guaranteed money means just that, it's guaranteed. You can push it around but at the end of the day, you need to pay it eventually. And it's not like Cousins is going to sign a $20M APY contract going forward when he knows he's due $40M. There's a reason he signs short 3-year contracts, it's so he can double and triple dip. And of course that would mean the Vikings would be tied to him even longer.

Think about it from an optionality standpoint. Lets say we were to draft Lawrence/Fields/Lance or anyone else next year. This is the options Rick has left the team. You can cut Cousins and he'll play for another team. And the Vikings will be paying him $31 million to play for someone else. Plus another $10 million cap hit in 2022. Or, you can let the rookie learn under Cousins for a year and then have Cousins hold a clipboard in 2022. And the Vikings will pay Cousins $45 million to hold a clipboard. That's it, those are the only two options I'm supposed to be okay our GM came up with because remember his $45M is guaranteed BEFORE next year starts. Not before 2022, the beginning of the 2021 NFL year. So basically what I'm saying is the odds we draft anyone and/or move on from Cousins is effectively zero. He could throw 3 picks a game until the end of the season and what are we going to do about it?

The only way Rick comes out of this looking good is if Cousins continues to play like he has over the last 5-games. He's yet to show he can do that but it's the only outcome I can think of where we're not in 2022 and everyone is saying why the #### are we paying this guy $45 million?
I'm not looking into the contract too deep until I see what Bryzinski attempts to do with that $45 million number.

However, look at the QBs you listed above and their highest cap number. No I'm not saying Kirk deserves $45 million. But also look at the ones below him that you have listed. How many of those QBs could you honestly tell me are BETTER QBs than Kirk Cousins??

-Stafford has been a bigger loser than Cousins
-Goff has turned into a train wreck since their SB year
-Wentz is on the verge of being benched for Hurts
-Teddy showed just last week what I've been saying for years now. He's nothing more than a game manager.
-Tannehill has actually played much better than I expected this year so maybe him?
-Ryan has also turned into a shell of himself since their choke job in the SB
-Jimmy G is vastly overrated and I've said that before on here. Guys think Cousins craps his pants under pressure, Garappolo makes Cousins look calm, cool and collected.
-Derek Carr I've always been a fan of but he's continued to underwhelm.

I'm not saying Cousins is millions of dollars better than all these guys, but your list is pretty poor. Not a single one of them carry a whole ton of weight. Out of 8 QBs that you listed, I'd probably take Cousins over at least 7 out of 8 of them. 6 out of 8 at the absolute lowest. Again, I cant see Cousins making $45 million when the time comes. I think something will be done by that point. But either way, I'm not putting much into it until I see what happens.
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Re: 'Hey, Teddy': Vikings Laud Bridgewater Before QB's Return to Play Minnesota

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:53 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:28 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:49 pm


You’re hanging your hat pretty heavily on PFF rankings right now. Go watch Baldy’s breakdown of Cleveland and what he’s done for this offense. Anyone can type in “Ezra Cleveland PFF grade” into google. Remember when Pat Elflein was graded as one of our better lineman if not the best lineman at one point? Yeah. Using PFF as a reference is one thing but it sure isn’t the end all be all either.

Them needing to run cook more doesn’t make much sense to me. They’ve been pounding him all season. What has changed in regards to that? Nothing. It’s the fact they no longer have a swinging door at RG that was getting thrown around like a rag doll. Cook has been shut down for the better part of two games now. Granted, Jones has been in, not Cleveland but either way, a huge reason is the fact that Samia is out. It’s helped in the passing game tremendously.
Baldinger? Come on, PHP. What serious fan would listen to a guy who actually played the offensive line in the NFL? It’s far better to go by the grade of some out-of-work slob in his underwear living in his parents’ basement who got cut from his JV team, right? :lol:

And you just hit the nail on the head. Cleveland has been out for the past two games, Brett Jones has been in, and Cook has struggled. Coincidence?

But wait ... pass blocking grades from the guy in the donut-stained wifebeater are what count. Silly me.
:lol: :lol: :lol: this is great
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Re: 'Hey, Teddy': Vikings Laud Bridgewater Before QB's Return to Play Minnesota

Post by S197 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:29 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:51 am
S197 wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:29 pm


I'd probably put Brees in the top tier, granted he's on the decline but he's still extremely productive. And I get your point, due to the importance of the position, QB's are always going to get big contracts that seem ridiculous at signing. But Cousins is next level. Lets take a look at contracts by their largest cap number:

Kirk Cousins: $45 million
Matt Stafford: $33 million
Goff: $34.6 million
Wentz: $34.6 million
Bridgewater: $26 million
Tannehill: $34 million
Ryan: $41.6 million
Garoppolo: $27 million
Carr: $22.1 million

Stafford has been bleeding the Lions for a long time now. And they're not exactly the franchise I think the Vikings want to emulate. Matt Ryan did a number of restructurings to help with their cap situation but his contract is still obviously weighing them down. Another franchise I don't think should be emulated. And keep in mind Cousins' extension came on the heels of a 3-year 100% fully guaranteed no-trade contract. Something that has never happened in the NFL before.

Not even guys like Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers are going to make over $40 million. We're literally paying our QB like he's Patrick Mahomes. And here's the other thing, not all of those contracts above are guaranteed like Cousins' contract will. Not effectively two years before they start. The only other team that's somewhat in a similar situation is the Falcons with Ryan and they're a 4-win team because of it. Now, you could argue that the Vikings don't pay Cousins $45 million, they could do ANOTHER extension and lower the cap that year. But as I mentioned in a previous post, guaranteed money means just that, it's guaranteed. You can push it around but at the end of the day, you need to pay it eventually. And it's not like Cousins is going to sign a $20M APY contract going forward when he knows he's due $40M. There's a reason he signs short 3-year contracts, it's so he can double and triple dip. And of course that would mean the Vikings would be tied to him even longer.

Think about it from an optionality standpoint. Lets say we were to draft Lawrence/Fields/Lance or anyone else next year. This is the options Rick has left the team. You can cut Cousins and he'll play for another team. And the Vikings will be paying him $31 million to play for someone else. Plus another $10 million cap hit in 2022. Or, you can let the rookie learn under Cousins for a year and then have Cousins hold a clipboard in 2022. And the Vikings will pay Cousins $45 million to hold a clipboard. That's it, those are the only two options I'm supposed to be okay our GM came up with because remember his $45M is guaranteed BEFORE next year starts. Not before 2022, the beginning of the 2021 NFL year. So basically what I'm saying is the odds we draft anyone and/or move on from Cousins is effectively zero. He could throw 3 picks a game until the end of the season and what are we going to do about it?

The only way Rick comes out of this looking good is if Cousins continues to play like he has over the last 5-games. He's yet to show he can do that but it's the only outcome I can think of where we're not in 2022 and everyone is saying why the #### are we paying this guy $45 million?
I'm not looking into the contract too deep until I see what Bryzinski attempts to do with that $45 million number.

However, look at the QBs you listed above and their highest cap number. No I'm not saying Kirk deserves $45 million. But also look at the ones below him that you have listed. How many of those QBs could you honestly tell me are BETTER QBs than Kirk Cousins??

-Stafford has been a bigger loser than Cousins
-Goff has turned into a train wreck since their SB year
-Wentz is on the verge of being benched for Hurts
-Teddy showed just last week what I've been saying for years now. He's nothing more than a game manager.
-Tannehill has actually played much better than I expected this year so maybe him?
-Ryan has also turned into a shell of himself since their choke job in the SB
-Jimmy G is vastly overrated and I've said that before on here. Guys think Cousins craps his pants under pressure, Garappolo makes Cousins look calm, cool and collected.
-Derek Carr I've always been a fan of but he's continued to underwhelm.

I'm not saying Cousins is millions of dollars better than all these guys, but your list is pretty poor. Not a single one of them carry a whole ton of weight. Out of 8 QBs that you listed, I'd probably take Cousins over at least 7 out of 8 of them. 6 out of 8 at the absolute lowest. Again, I cant see Cousins making $45 million when the time comes. I think something will be done by that point. But either way, I'm not putting much into it until I see what happens.
I'm not really sure what Brez can do since it's guaranteed money. He could extend Cousins and convert it into a signing bonus, but then you're pushing the cap further into the future. Which is okay if you want Cousins around for 6 more years. I obviously wouldn't be thrilled about that.

I agree with your assessment but the reason I picked those guys is because they're the ones psjordan listed. I would say of that list, I'd probably take Tannehill and Carr (because he's essentially half the price). Maybe Teddy for the same reason.
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Re: 'Hey, Teddy': Vikings Laud Bridgewater Before QB's Return to Play Minnesota

Post by psjordan » Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:17 am

S197 wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:29 pm
Lets take a look at contracts by their largest cap number:

Kirk Cousins: $45 million
Matt Stafford: $33 million
Goff: $34.6 million
Wentz: $34.6 million
Bridgewater: $26 million
Tannehill: $34 million
Ryan: $41.6 million
Garoppolo: $27 million
Carr: $22.1 million
So let's make it simple and say Cousins is $10M above the better players on that list, on average. In a typical year, that's what, 5% of the cap? I don't see what is so egregious about that situation, when the QB in question rarely gets hurt and is seemingly always available. I mean, it's not MY ten mil.

Again, yes I see all of Cousins' shortcomings. Yes he frustrates the snot out of me sometimes. Yes I agree he's very likely NOT taking us to the promised land. Yes, I've screamed "SERIOUSLY DUDE?!?!" more than once at the TV Cousins. But IMO that description fits every QB on the above list.

I just find it hard to say RickHasToGo mainly because he has not found our Mahomes/Rodgers/fill in your choice. I know you take umbrage at Rick not taking swings, but that's like swinging at Garrett Cole fastballs. So yeah, Rick is at the plate eeking out a walk just like the majority of the league while (less than a handful of) other teams may be taking rips. Eventually one of those will go for a home run, but hells bells that's so far from a sure thing it's not even funny. AND swinging and missing means no soup for you. There is in fact a cost to doing that.

In the end, "going down swinging" is not a better or worse alternative, for me. We are where we are. "High Probability" franchise QB's only come along so often, and when they do it REALLY REALLY has to align with what you have for draft capital that year or the following year.

The fact we really have not been in that position in what seems like forever is not, IMO, Rick's fault. The Treadmill of Mediocrity has a lot of moving parts and is not kind to drafting franchise QBs.

I don't think Rick is the best GM in the league, but he's above average. And I definitely feel he deserves a chance with a new coaching staff or two, rather than the other way around.
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Re: 'Hey, Teddy': Vikings Laud Bridgewater Before QB's Return to Play Minnesota

Post by S197 » Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:35 pm

psjordan wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:17 am
S197 wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:29 pm
Lets take a look at contracts by their largest cap number:

Kirk Cousins: $45 million
Matt Stafford: $33 million
Goff: $34.6 million
Wentz: $34.6 million
Bridgewater: $26 million
Tannehill: $34 million
Ryan: $41.6 million
Garoppolo: $27 million
Carr: $22.1 million
So let's make it simple and say Cousins is $10M above the better players on that list, on average. In a typical year, that's what, 5% of the cap? I don't see what is so egregious about that situation, when the QB in question rarely gets hurt and is seemingly always available. I mean, it's not MY ten mil.

Again, yes I see all of Cousins' shortcomings. Yes he frustrates the snot out of me sometimes. Yes I agree he's very likely NOT taking us to the promised land. Yes, I've screamed "SERIOUSLY DUDE?!?!" more than once at the TV Cousins. But IMO that description fits every QB on the above list.

I just find it hard to say RickHasToGo mainly because he has not found our Mahomes/Rodgers/fill in your choice. I know you take umbrage at Rick not taking swings, but that's like swinging at Garrett Cole fastballs. So yeah, Rick is at the plate eeking out a walk just like the majority of the league while (less than a handful of) other teams may be taking rips. Eventually one of those will go for a home run, but hells bells that's so far from a sure thing it's not even funny. AND swinging and missing means no soup for you. There is in fact a cost to doing that.

In the end, "going down swinging" is not a better or worse alternative, for me. We are where we are. "High Probability" franchise QB's only come along so often, and when they do it REALLY REALLY has to align with what you have for draft capital that year or the following year.

The fact we really have not been in that position in what seems like forever is not, IMO, Rick's fault. The Treadmill of Mediocrity has a lot of moving parts and is not kind to drafting franchise QBs.

I don't think Rick is the best GM in the league, but he's above average. And I definitely feel he deserves a chance with a new coaching staff or two, rather than the other way around.
The QB situation isn't the only reason I want Rick gone although it's a big one. There's also the major problem that he hasn't been able to field a halfway decent OL for over a decade.

I also don't think taking swings is very detrimental to a franchise. As I mentioned, three of the most successful franchises in the NFL have used high draft capital on a QB, despite having their franchise guy.
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Re: 'Hey, Teddy': Vikings Laud Bridgewater Before QB's Return to Play Minnesota

Post by psjordan » Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:53 pm

S197 wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:35 pm
I also don't think taking swings is very detrimental to a franchise. As I mentioned, three of the most successful franchises in the NFL have used high draft capital on a QB, despite having their franchise guy.
Ahh but we don't really know that, since the detrimental part can be so hidden. For instance if GB does not win the SB this year (fingers crossed), will anyone make the connection to selecting Love and not [fill in the blank, say Chase Claypool], who might have put them over the top?

BTW it was kind of funny listening to Rodgers on Pat McAfee show saying he ducked out of an interview during the first round of the 2020 draft just before the GB pick "just in case we did something crazy like select a DB or something"...

I wonder where Love was on our board, and if/when we would have taken him.
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Re: 'Hey, Teddy': Vikings Laud Bridgewater Before QB's Return to Play Minnesota

Post by Frozen Rope » Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:31 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:51 am
S197 wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:29 pm


I'd probably put Brees in the top tier, granted he's on the decline but he's still extremely productive. And I get your point, due to the importance of the position, QB's are always going to get big contracts that seem ridiculous at signing. But Cousins is next level. Lets take a look at contracts by their largest cap number:

Kirk Cousins: $45 million
Matt Stafford: $33 million
Goff: $34.6 million
Wentz: $34.6 million
Bridgewater: $26 million
Tannehill: $34 million
Ryan: $41.6 million
Garoppolo: $27 million
Carr: $22.1 million

Stafford has been bleeding the Lions for a long time now. And they're not exactly the franchise I think the Vikings want to emulate. Matt Ryan did a number of restructurings to help with their cap situation but his contract is still obviously weighing them down. Another franchise I don't think should be emulated. And keep in mind Cousins' extension came on the heels of a 3-year 100% fully guaranteed no-trade contract. Something that has never happened in the NFL before.

Not even guys like Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers are going to make over $40 million. We're literally paying our QB like he's Patrick Mahomes. And here's the other thing, not all of those contracts above are guaranteed like Cousins' contract will. Not effectively two years before they start. The only other team that's somewhat in a similar situation is the Falcons with Ryan and they're a 4-win team because of it. Now, you could argue that the Vikings don't pay Cousins $45 million, they could do ANOTHER extension and lower the cap that year. But as I mentioned in a previous post, guaranteed money means just that, it's guaranteed. You can push it around but at the end of the day, you need to pay it eventually. And it's not like Cousins is going to sign a $20M APY contract going forward when he knows he's due $40M. There's a reason he signs short 3-year contracts, it's so he can double and triple dip. And of course that would mean the Vikings would be tied to him even longer.

Think about it from an optionality standpoint. Lets say we were to draft Lawrence/Fields/Lance or anyone else next year. This is the options Rick has left the team. You can cut Cousins and he'll play for another team. And the Vikings will be paying him $31 million to play for someone else. Plus another $10 million cap hit in 2022. Or, you can let the rookie learn under Cousins for a year and then have Cousins hold a clipboard in 2022. And the Vikings will pay Cousins $45 million to hold a clipboard. That's it, those are the only two options I'm supposed to be okay our GM came up with because remember his $45M is guaranteed BEFORE next year starts. Not before 2022, the beginning of the 2021 NFL year. So basically what I'm saying is the odds we draft anyone and/or move on from Cousins is effectively zero. He could throw 3 picks a game until the end of the season and what are we going to do about it?

The only way Rick comes out of this looking good is if Cousins continues to play like he has over the last 5-games. He's yet to show he can do that but it's the only outcome I can think of where we're not in 2022 and everyone is saying why the #### are we paying this guy $45 million?
I'm not looking into the contract too deep until I see what Bryzinski attempts to do with that $45 million number.

However, look at the QBs you listed above and their highest cap number. No I'm not saying Kirk deserves $45 million. But also look at the ones below him that you have listed. How many of those QBs could you honestly tell me are BETTER QBs than Kirk Cousins??

-Stafford has been a bigger loser than Cousins
-Goff has turned into a train wreck since their SB year
-Wentz is on the verge of being benched for Hurts
-Teddy showed just last week what I've been saying for years now. He's nothing more than a game manager.
-Tannehill has actually played much better than I expected this year so maybe him?
-Ryan has also turned into a shell of himself since their choke job in the SB
-Jimmy G is vastly overrated and I've said that before on here. Guys think Cousins craps his pants under pressure, Garappolo makes Cousins look calm, cool and collected.
-Derek Carr I've always been a fan of but he's continued to underwhelm.

I'm not saying Cousins is millions of dollars better than all these guys, but your list is pretty poor. Not a single one of them carry a whole ton of weight. Out of 8 QBs that you listed, I'd probably take Cousins over at least 7 out of 8 of them. 6 out of 8 at the absolute lowest. Again, I cant see Cousins making $45 million when the time comes. I think something will be done by that point. But either way, I'm not putting much into it until I see what happens.
Right on PHP. People forget what situational football is for most QB’s. Case in point, Miami could wait to dump Tannehill. The fans hated him and the front office was desperate to unload him. What did they get for him?
Two late round draft picks and they had to pick up 5M of his salary. You don’t have to wonder what the fans think now because they think the front office are idiots. The Titans were smart, looked behind the curtain and were confident if they had a good Oline and surrounded Tannehill with talent, he could be their franchise QB.
They were right. Same guy who was tarred and feathered in Miami is now one of the better QB’s in the NFL. That’s what I mean by situational football. Everybody’s enamored with the next shiny object coming out of college but the shine wears off for most because defenses figure them out. Jackson, Murray, Teddy and others. My point being no one will ever know the potential of their QB unless they start with their Oline. Running QB’s are on borrowed time. Pure pocket passers need a spread pocket.
Brady, Manning and the greats all had it. Not underplaying Cousins weaknesses, just stating that Cousins never had a great Oline in his career.
The other thing that Jordan touched on was play calling. Great post. Is it me or does anyone else notice all the creative play calling from offensive coordinators from many other teams.
I read once that Andy Reid has 400 different plays from his playbook. He may not use them all, but he has the defenses guessing on every play. And it’s just not Reid. Kubiak’s time has passed him by. We are predictable and our opposition has a pretty good idea based on how we line up what play is coming. I would just love to see how Reid would handle this team. We look like we are right out of the Woody Hayes, Bo Schembeckler era. I’m rambling but PHP and Jordan’s posts were great.
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Re: 'Hey, Teddy': Vikings Laud Bridgewater Before QB's Return to Play Minnesota

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:12 pm

Frozen Rope wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:31 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:51 am


I'm not looking into the contract too deep until I see what Bryzinski attempts to do with that $45 million number.

However, look at the QBs you listed above and their highest cap number. No I'm not saying Kirk deserves $45 million. But also look at the ones below him that you have listed. How many of those QBs could you honestly tell me are BETTER QBs than Kirk Cousins??

-Stafford has been a bigger loser than Cousins
-Goff has turned into a train wreck since their SB year
-Wentz is on the verge of being benched for Hurts
-Teddy showed just last week what I've been saying for years now. He's nothing more than a game manager.
-Tannehill has actually played much better than I expected this year so maybe him?
-Ryan has also turned into a shell of himself since their choke job in the SB
-Jimmy G is vastly overrated and I've said that before on here. Guys think Cousins craps his pants under pressure, Garappolo makes Cousins look calm, cool and collected.
-Derek Carr I've always been a fan of but he's continued to underwhelm.

I'm not saying Cousins is millions of dollars better than all these guys, but your list is pretty poor. Not a single one of them carry a whole ton of weight. Out of 8 QBs that you listed, I'd probably take Cousins over at least 7 out of 8 of them. 6 out of 8 at the absolute lowest. Again, I cant see Cousins making $45 million when the time comes. I think something will be done by that point. But either way, I'm not putting much into it until I see what happens.
Right on PHP. People forget what situational football is for most QB’s. Case in point, Miami could wait to dump Tannehill. The fans hated him and the front office was desperate to unload him. What did they get for him?
Two late round draft picks and they had to pick up 5M of his salary. You don’t have to wonder what the fans think now because they think the front office are idiots. The Titans were smart, looked behind the curtain and were confident if they had a good Oline and surrounded Tannehill with talent, he could be their franchise QB.
They were right. Same guy who was tarred and feathered in Miami is now one of the better QB’s in the NFL. That’s what I mean by situational football. Everybody’s enamored with the next shiny object coming out of college but the shine wears off for most because defenses figure them out. Jackson, Murray, Teddy and others. My point being no one will ever know the potential of their QB unless they start with their Oline. Running QB’s are on borrowed time. Pure pocket passers need a spread pocket.
Brady, Manning and the greats all had it. Not underplaying Cousins weaknesses, just stating that Cousins never had a great Oline in his career.
The other thing that Jordan touched on was play calling. Great post. Is it me or does anyone else notice all the creative play calling from offensive coordinators from many other teams.
I read once that Andy Reid has 400 different plays from his playbook. He may not use them all, but he has the defenses guessing on every play. And it’s just not Reid. Kubiak’s time has passed him by. We are predictable and our opposition has a pretty good idea based on how we line up what play is coming. I would just love to see how Reid would handle this team. We look like we are right out of the Woody Hayes, Bo Schembeckler era. I’m rambling but PHP and Jordan’s posts were great.
Seriously dude?

We’ve averaged 405 yards and 27.4 points over the past 10 games. In the NFL, that’s pretty darned good.

Andy Reid is really good. Probably the best in the game. But he has a once-in-a-lifetime quarterback, a track team at receiver, two great running backs, the best tight end in football, and a top-3 offensive line. I’m guessing a lot of coaches could manage to score points with that team.

The fact that Andy Reid is really good does not make Gary Kubiak bad. It’s not a zero-sum game.
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Re: 'Hey, Teddy': Vikings Laud Bridgewater Before QB's Return to Play Minnesota

Post by S197 » Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:28 pm

psjordan wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:53 pm
S197 wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:35 pm
I also don't think taking swings is very detrimental to a franchise. As I mentioned, three of the most successful franchises in the NFL have used high draft capital on a QB, despite having their franchise guy.
Ahh but we don't really know that, since the detrimental part can be so hidden. For instance if GB does not win the SB this year (fingers crossed), will anyone make the connection to selecting Love and not [fill in the blank, say Chase Claypool], who might have put them over the top?

BTW it was kind of funny listening to Rodgers on Pat McAfee show saying he ducked out of an interview during the first round of the 2020 draft just before the GB pick "just in case we did something crazy like select a DB or something"...

I wonder where Love was on our board, and if/when we would have taken him.
That’s certainly true. I suspect it will be a couple of years before we see if the Love experiment works out or not. Hopefully he’s the next Ryan Leaf.
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Re: 'Hey, Teddy': Vikings Laud Bridgewater Before QB's Return to Play Minnesota

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:27 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:56 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:30 pm

Fine. B!tch about the Vikings. Enjoy your life. I’ll certainly enjoy mine.

Some of us root for the team we have, not the one we think we’re entitled to.
My life is great which is why I live in reality instead of retreating to a fantasy world where the Vikings can do no wrong.

You keep on rooting for the team you have instead of the one you are entitled too. Enjoy never winning it all and keep enabling your favorite team's mediocrity. With that mentality that is all you deserve.
You know, I'm really, really close to getting banned right now.

Enabling my favorite team? What are you, 12? I don't have anything to do with whether they win or lose, and guess what? Neither do you. We're FANS. We have NOTHING TO DO with the outcome. We're buying a product. If you don't like Pepsi, then go ahead and buy Coke. But don't tell me what I have the right to enjoy or not enjoy, and don't tell me what I deserve. Got it?
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Re: 'Hey, Teddy': Vikings Laud Bridgewater Before QB's Return to Play Minnesota

Post by Rhodes Closed » Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:01 pm

I don't think you deserve to be banned Kapp. :)
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Re: 'Hey, Teddy': Vikings Laud Bridgewater Before QB's Return to Play Minnesota

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:25 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:27 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:56 pm


My life is great which is why I live in reality instead of retreating to a fantasy world where the Vikings can do no wrong.

You keep on rooting for the team you have instead of the one you are entitled too. Enjoy never winning it all and keep enabling your favorite team's mediocrity. With that mentality that is all you deserve.
You know, I'm really, really close to getting banned right now.

Enabling my favorite team? What are you, 12? I don't have anything to do with whether they win or lose, and guess what? Neither do you. We're FANS. We have NOTHING TO DO with the outcome. We're buying a product. If you don't like Pepsi, then go ahead and buy Coke. But don't tell me what I have the right to enjoy or not enjoy, and don't tell me what I deserve. Got it?
If enough people did that, what would Pepsi do? Would they continue selling the same product no one wants or change things up?

The Vikings are a product, and if consumers of that product continue to buy in regardless of the results, ownership will have no reason to change. Fan expectations is what drives ownership to hire or fire front offices, and while one NFC Championship game loss since 20011 is good enough for many Vikings fans to want to continue to buy into a GM, in a place like NE that wouldn't be nearly good enough.

Why do you think the Cubs lost for so many years before finally winning it all? Was it a curse or was it because ownership knew fans would continue to come to games regardless of how bad they were, and wasn't as driven as a team like the Yankees, or even the Cardinals to win it all? Many Cubs fans reveled in rooting for their loveable losers, and ownership was happy to oblige. It is not a coincidence the Cubs eventually did win it all after a couple of years of down attendance prior to 2015 when they started to put together their World Series team.

If Vikings fans as a whole expected more, ownership would attempt to give us more. If Vikings fans as a whole pat themselves on the back after a 3 game stretch where they lost to one of the worst teams in the NFL and then barely beat two other bottom dwellers, because they at least aren't 1-5 anymore, well, that is what ownership will be content with too.

So go ahead and continue to look on the bright side of this season if that is what you need to do to enjoy watching this team, but understand that others actually want to compete for a SB and expect more.
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Re: 'Hey, Teddy': Vikings Laud Bridgewater Before QB's Return to Play Minnesota

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:29 am

Rhodes Closed wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:01 pm
I don't think you deserve to be banned Kapp. :)
I don't either, and he should be fine as long as he doesn't put a certain moderator in a box with facts after that moderator engages in unprovoked personal attacks against said poster.
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Re: 'Hey, Teddy': Vikings Laud Bridgewater Before QB's Return to Play Minnesota

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:50 am

Frozen Rope wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:31 pm
People forget what situational football is for most QB’s. Case in point, Miami could wait to dump Tannehill. The fans hated him and the front office was desperate to unload him. What did they get for him?
Two late round draft picks and they had to pick up 5M of his salary. You don’t have to wonder what the fans think now because they think the front office are idiots. The Titans were smart, looked behind the curtain and were confident if they had a good Oline and surrounded Tannehill with talent, he could be their franchise QB.
Miami fans think their front office is a joke? They put together a team that is winning with Fitzpatrick and a rookie at QB after a year where they were a bottom dweller for most of the season. My guess is if you put a poll up on any of their sites the majority of fans would be happy they moved on from Tannehill.

The Titans original trade for Tannehill was a good move, but we will see how that extension ends up working out for them in the end. I will also point out he average 123 yards per game in the playoffs and was close to being good enough in the final game against the Chiefs, despite a gaudy stat line padded by a garbage time TD drive. He is an okay QB who has everything a QB could want going for him in TN. Carr, Teddy, Goff, Wentz, etc could all have success on that team, but in the end you need more than just being able to be successful in a perfect spot to win it all.
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Re: 'Hey, Teddy': Vikings Laud Bridgewater Before QB's Return to Play Minnesota

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:51 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:25 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:27 pm

You know, I'm really, really close to getting banned right now.

Enabling my favorite team? What are you, 12? I don't have anything to do with whether they win or lose, and guess what? Neither do you. We're FANS. We have NOTHING TO DO with the outcome. We're buying a product. If you don't like Pepsi, then go ahead and buy Coke. But don't tell me what I have the right to enjoy or not enjoy, and don't tell me what I deserve. Got it?
If enough people did that, what would Pepsi do? Would they continue selling the same product no one wants or change things up?

The Vikings are a product, and if consumers of that product continue to buy in regardless of the results, ownership will have no reason to change. Fan expectations is what drives ownership to hire or fire front offices, and while one NFC Championship game loss since 20011 is good enough for many Vikings fans to want to continue to buy into a GM, in a place like NE that wouldn't be nearly good enough.

Why do you think the Cubs lost for so many years before finally winning it all? Was it a curse or was it because ownership knew fans would continue to come to games regardless of how bad they were, and wasn't as driven as a team like the Yankees, or even the Cardinals to win it all? Many Cubs fans reveled in rooting for their loveable losers, and ownership was happy to oblige. It is not a coincidence the Cubs eventually did win it all after a couple of years of down attendance prior to 2015 when they started to put together their World Series team.

If Vikings fans as a whole expected more, ownership would attempt to give us more. If Vikings fans as a whole pat themselves on the back after a 3 game stretch where they lost to one of the worst teams in the NFL and then barely beat two other bottom dwellers, because they at least aren't 1-5 anymore, well, that is what ownership will be content with too.

So go ahead and continue to look on the bright side of this season if that is what you need to do to enjoy watching this team, but understand that others actually want to compete for a SB and expect more.
Looking at the bright side of a team that's won 5 of 6 and wanting to compete for a Super Bowl aren't mutually exclusive. But to address your general attitude of hopeless negativism, when the Vikings do win the Super Bowl, people like you will be the first to moan when they don't win a second. And when they do win a second, you'll complain that they're not doing enough to win a third. It's insufferable. News flash: You're not entitled to root for a dynasty.

And by the way, if you think I'm all purple-colored glasses and unable to provide rational, balanced analysis, then I would suggest you haven't done much actual reading on this board.

Your Chicago Cubs parallel is way, way off base (get it?). The Cubs have significantly exceeded the N.L. average attendance every year since 1998. There was no "down attendance," unless you consider "falling" slightly below 3 million fans and still easily finishing in the Top 5 in attendance "down." But even if you allow for the "down attendance" argument, allow me to educate you on where a team's revenue comes from. One word: television. Less than a third comes from ticket sales and stadium revenue. So if attendance drops 5%, which is actually more than it fell from 2011 to 2013 when the Cubs were at their worst, revenue falls by less than 1%. That makes your Cubs illustration look like it was drawn by a 3-year-old.

Plus, there are so many Vikings fans who want to attend the few home games they play every year that for the organization to experience anything less than a sellout would require, I don't know, a global pandemic or something.

Finally, your analogy for Pepsi and Coke is total garbage. This is about scale. There are enough Pepsi lovers that losing one malcontent to Coke (or even 100) won't make the slightest difference. Likewise, there are millions of loyal Vikings fans who wouldn't dream of rooting for anyone else. But hey, feel free to apply the analogy to yourself. Like the disgruntled Pepsi drinker, you won't be missed.
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