Lions-Vikings Game Day

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J. Kapp 11
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Re: Lions-Vikings Game Day

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:22 pm

psjordan wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:07 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:35 pm
It is possible to enjoy a running back like Dalvin Cook and marvel at what he does ... and still believe it's an unwise long-term investment.
I don't take issue with that sentiment, until it comes time to chide the GM.

I mean, proverbially speaking, you're giving our GM a pretty narrow window when you say "sign a good RB, but not too good, and sign him for [my version of] reasonable money, but not too much". Oh, and "make sure he's the type to stay healthy and merits [my version of] the guaranteed money he'll make". And make sure he doesn't out-play or under-play his contract.

For me, drafting Cook and signing him long term were all great decisions, no matter what happens with his health. All players are subject to get hurt, especially skill positions. If he gets hurt and misses time, that's the game. Tell it to Saquon Barkley and CMC.

And if Dalvin had played every minute since being drafted, he would have commanded WAY more than the [current] fifth highest RB guaranteed value that he signed for.

I am enjoying the ride while he's healthy and am glad we [i.e., our GM] drafted and re-signed him at the number he signed for. He is truly special and I love watching him in Viking purple.
I know you're not saying this ... but I haven't chided the GM for the move. I said I wouldn't do that, and I haven't. Not once. Heck, I haven't even brought up the subject. I've answered when others have brought it up (more accurately, thrown it in my face). The Vikings extended him — I support him. Period.

As a matter of fact, I'll take it a step further. I fully believe Dalvin Cook is playing like one the top 5 players in the entire NFL. I know most people would scoff at that, with Mahomes and Wilson and Jackson out there, but his talent and productivity are off the charts, and his teammates absolutely would run through fire for him. I'm with you ... I love watching him.

It's simply not how I would build a team if I were GM. And NOBODY can say I'm wrong because we don't know what it's like to build around a great passing game. Plus, for all Dalvin's greatness, we're 3-5. But I can hardly criticize the move given what he's done since signing his extension. He's definitely doing his part so far.
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Re: Lions-Vikings Game Day

Post by VikingLord » Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:31 pm

Cook is going to get a lot of kudos for his play yesterday, as well he should. Cousins also deserves some praise as he made several nice throws as well.

But how 'bout that offensive line folks?

This is a unit I felt was fatally flawed earlier in the season. Part of me still believes that.

But this is now two games in a row where they've not just looked competent - they've actually looked good across the board. I had my doubts about Cleveland being able to handle right guard, but dang it if he doesn't look like he's coming along as fast and as well as O'Neill did when he was a rookie and he was thrust into a starting role. Cleveland has made some really nice blocks. He hasn't been perfect, but he's been amazing considering what we'd seen to start the season at that position.

Bradbury too has upped his game considerably. I was starting to have my doubts that he could handle the pros, but he's playing like you hope a 1st round pick will play at his position.

Let's not forget Dozier at left guard. He's been surprisingly consistent as of late too. Like Cleveland, not perfect, but better than earlier in the season. Much better in fact.

I don't want to take anything away from the two tackles, either, but both were playing their positions well to start the season and both continue to play them well now. It's just that the interior of the line is approaching their level of consistency and competence.

And when that happens, you unleash the talent of a guy like Cook. Yeah, Cook makes things happen all on his own too. He's amazing. But you actually block well in front of him and you see why he just might have been worth the money they spent to extend him. Cousins too is just better when he's got the blocking, because not only does he have more time when throwing, but he's going to have more time because the play action is going to freeze the linebackers consistently. Cousins doesn't have to worry about getting crushed on every drop back, and if he's got time, he can make some great throws.

I'll also give the defense some credit. They're far from great, but there is evidence they're improving. More than that, there is evidence they are adjusting and scheming to confuse the QB. I've now watched Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, and Matt Stafford all struggle to read coverages. They've made all three look hesitant and goaded all three into making some bad reads and throws. Not sure exactly what wrinkles they're throwing in but they're clearly adapting to the hand they've been dealt and it seems to be working.

Lastly, DJ Wonnum. Where the heck did they find this guy in the draft as late as they found him? When they grabbed Griffen in the 4th round it was because he'd had some issues in college, but I don't recall reading anything similar about Wonnum coming out. Anybody know why he dropped in the draft? This is a guy who looks like he could be the real deal. He's already making plays.
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Re: Lions-Vikings Game Day

Post by 808vikingsfan » Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:57 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:30 pm
VikingPaul73 wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:14 pm
I missed the game

How did the OL look? Was it all individual effort by Cook today or was the OL opening nice lanes? How did they look in pass protection? Just wondering if they are continuing to improve and how Ezra looks at RG

How about the rookies on D?
The Oline looked good again today, but the Lions are a terrible pass rushing team. Ezra did well in run blocking and pass blocking.

Wonnum was the standout of the rookies on D and at one point it looked like he took over for Odenigbo at RDE? Nothing from Lynch that I saw but I did stop watching in the 4th. No glaring mistakes from any of the rookies in the secondary.
Thought Gladney stood out yesterday too.
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Re: Lions-Vikings Game Day

Post by 808vikingsfan » Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:59 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:36 am
RandyMoss84 wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:23 am


Yeah, I have been telling fans that Vikings have too much talent on the team to tank for Trevor
If Cook had seriously hurt himself a couple of weeks ago we would still be in he hunt.

He deserves consideration for league MVP right now.
I was going to say this too. Without Cook's production these past two weeks, the Vikings would still be a one win team. But, he is on the team so PHP is sorta right.... Just hope he stays healthy.
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Re: Lions-Vikings Game Day

Post by 808vikingsfan » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:20 pm

I think this win rests entirely on Cook. His vision right now is the best it's been. He's patient but when he sees a small opening, he doesn't hesitate at all. It was so fun to watch. That toss left where he made the first down was unbelievable. He could've reached 250+ yards if they played him more. DET had no answer for him.

Cousins... eh. He made some really nice throws. But in the 2nd half when we needed a play on 3rd down, more often than not, he didn't deliver. He's still bad in situational downs. But that bomb to JJ was a beauty. That's what Cousins has always been, he can throw a nice pass but when it counts, he's terrible. Let's not think Cousins has changed, it's Cook that is making this team roll.

One thing that was good to see was the excitement and comraderie on the field and sideline the OL was showing. You can tell something is clicking right now. Hard not to root for them.

The Vikings won't have a chance at Lawrence but maybe they'll still have a chance drafting Z. Wilson? Man, Tua looked good yesterday. I still think they should have tried and traded up for him.
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Re: Lions-Vikings Game Day

Post by psjordan » Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:51 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:22 pm
I know you're not saying this ... but I haven't chided the GM for the move.
Which is why I was comfortable giving you the "metaphorical" response to make my point, knowing you would not take it as a personal affront.

I happen to agree with you that right now, DC is in the top five skill positions in the NFL. However, while I thought to myself "HOLY COW!" (well, not "cow") when Dalvin did his thing, the only player I outright shouted "HOLY COW HE'S HAVING A GREAT YEAR!" was when watching Kendricks.

I confused the heck out of my wife who barely pays attention to the game, but my goodness he is putting it all together.
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Re: Lions-Vikings Game Day

Post by RandyMoss84 » Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:00 pm

808vikingsfan wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:20 pm
I think this win rests entirely on Cook. His vision right now is the best it's been. He's patient but when he sees a small opening, he doesn't hesitate at all. It was so fun to watch. That toss left where he made the first down was unbelievable. He could've reached 250+ yards if they played him more. DET had no answer for him.

Cousins... eh. He made some really nice throws. But in the 2nd half when we needed a play on 3rd down, more often than not, he didn't deliver. He's still bad in situational downs. But that bomb to JJ was a beauty. That's what Cousins has always been, he can throw a nice pass but when it counts, he's terrible. Let's not think Cousins has changed, it's Cook that is making this team roll.

One thing that was good to see was the excitement and comraderie on the field and sideline the OL was showing. You can tell something is clicking right now. Hard not to root for them.

The Vikings won't have a chance at Lawrence but maybe they'll still have a chance drafting Z. Wilson? Man, Tua looked good yesterday. I still think they should have tried and traded up for him.
I am glad Vikings did not trade the farm to get Tua because Vikings need an offensive line
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Re: Lions-Vikings Game Day

Post by Bowhunting Viking » Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:12 pm

psjordan wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:51 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:22 pm
I know you're not saying this ... but I haven't chided the GM for the move.
Which is why I was comfortable giving you the "metaphorical" response to make my point, knowing you would not take it as a personal affront.

I happen to agree with you that right now, DC is in the top five skill positions in the NFL. However, while I thought to myself "HOLY COW!" (well, not "cow") when Dalvin did his thing, the only player I outright shouted "HOLY COW HE'S HAVING A GREAT YEAR!" was when watching Kendricks.

I confused the heck out of my wife who barely pays attention to the game, but my goodness he is putting it all together.
I will definitely agree with you about Kendricks. He is definitely the MVP of our offense, and if Cook wasn't the beast he is and having the season that he is I would say Kendricks is the team MVP.
The guy is an absolute stud. He is all over the field. He is one of the best LB in pass coverage that I have ever seen. And I don't just mean as a Viking, I mean as in NFL. He is the complete package as far as physical ability , football IQ, leadership , humility and off the field charcter. I am glad the man is a member of the organization. I remember people in the " Blow it up thread" bringing up his name as a trade candidate. That would be a huge mistake in my opinion. I know it probably won't happen due to the landscape of the NFL now, but I would really love to see him stay healthy and end up like Greenway and retire in purple. Viking purple that is, not that ugly #### Raven purple :lol:
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Re: Lions-Vikings Game Day

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:22 pm

psjordan wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:51 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:22 pm
I know you're not saying this ... but I haven't chided the GM for the move.
Which is why I was comfortable giving you the "metaphorical" response to make my point, knowing you would not take it as a personal affront.

I happen to agree with you that right now, DC is in the top five skill positions in the NFL. However, while I thought to myself "HOLY COW!" (well, not "cow") when Dalvin did his thing, the only player I outright shouted "HOLY COW HE'S HAVING A GREAT YEAR!" was when watching Kendricks.

I confused the heck out of my wife who barely pays attention to the game, but my goodness he is putting it all together.
Could not possibly agree with you more on Kendricks.

I know I'm biased, but I think he's the best all-around linebacker in the game. If he's not a first-team All-Pro (not talking Pro Bowl here, but the honor that actually means something) then something's wrong. That pick yesterday ... Tony Gonzalez today said the double-move in the end zone that Hockenson made is the hardest route for a linebacker to cover. Kendricks made it look like he was taking candy from a baby. Not only that, he's a tackling machine.

Kendricks is the heart and soul of the defense, and Cook is the same for the offense. And our QB? Well, he's the CEO.
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Re: Lions-Vikings Game Day

Post by Bowhunting Viking » Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:32 am

Well nobody else has done it so I guess I will..... Bears sign Kyle Sloter.
In the words of Ozzy at the beginning of concerts...
LET THE MADNESS BEGIN!!!!!
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Re: Lions-Vikings Game Day

Post by Thaumaturgist » Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:55 am

Bowhunting Viking wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:32 am
Well nobody else has done it so I guess I will..... Bears sign Kyle Sloter.
In the words of Ozzy at the beginning of concerts...
LET THE MADNESS BEGIN!!!!!
Dang it! I wanted Sloter! Well, I did... At one point. :gone:
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Re: Lions-Vikings Game Day

Post by chicagopurple » Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:27 am

a bunch of cellar dweller teams fighting over who gets to pick up a mediocre journeyman back up QB.....yawn

Both the Bears and the Vikes can be described as franchises destroyed by incompetent GMs who overinvested in QBs that the rest of the league KNEW were not very good. In addition, both teams have neglected their OL for a long time by both a lack of recruiting and poor recruiting. The last 2 weeks have been fun for us Vikes fans but the Bears have a real Defensive line as opposed to the warm pile of manure that the Lions have assembled. If Cook tears up the the Bears this week, I will be VERY impressed. Same goes for Mr Cousins......He is going to have a lot more pressure on him this Monday and a secondary that is more focused on takeaways. It would take me alot to start thinking more highly of Cousins but a dominant performance against the Bears will go a looong way. The Bears Offense is just a joke, non existant, so our Defense should give Cousins plenty of opportunities to shine. I just do not know that he can do it against a tough defense.
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Re: Lions-Vikings Game Day

Post by psjordan » Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:22 pm

chicagopurple wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:27 am
If Cook tears up the the Bears this week, I will be VERY impressed.
Me too, but my reasoning is WAY more sound than yours. My reasoning simply says Lucy is about to pull the ball away, again.
chicagopurple wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:27 am
and the Vikes can be described as franchises destroyed by incompetent GMs
A little harsh. I mean, in recent history, other than the woebegone 2016 woof of a draft (maybe it was the draft gods making up for 2015), Rick has scored LARGE in the 2nd round or very late first:

Gladney (Late1) and Cleveland (2), obviously TBD
Irv Smith (2)
O'Neill (2)
Cook (2)
Mackensie Alexander (2), TBD I guess
Kendricks (2)
Bridgewater (Late1)
Harrison Smith (Late1)
Rudolph (2)

Rick even traded the same subsequent pick FOUR times (down) in a row in order to get Mattison at #102 and a bunch of additional picks, including Udoh. Look that sequence up, you can't even follow the trade of picks for goodness sake.

Anyways, that's a bunch of decent talent after 30-45 selections have been made. And there is no way to factor in good or bad coaching in the mix of whether a player comes out the other side of first two years in the league as a top contributor. Lots of moving parts to pin "franchise destruction" on the GM. Has the GM failed on the OL picks, or has our coaching staff failed on OL coaching.

Do the above selections make up for the 10-years running QB situation*, or the trades like Bradford? Probably not. But "destroyed by incompetance" seems a bit much. IMO we have to save SOME rhetoric for the Jets and Houston.

My point is not that Cousins is great or even good most of the time. But a team with Cousins as it's QB hardly equates to an incompetant GM destroying the franchise. At least in my opinion.

*I know it's "de rigueur" to call our QB situation an out-and-out fiasco, and it's easy to be frustrated as all get out, but Cousins is not a fiasco. He may not be what we all want, and he may not ever be a SB winning QB able to carry a team. But that describes the vast majority of QBs in the league in any given year. We just don't have a great one, and we have not for years and years. We all rightfully blame the GM, but I see about 20-25 other GM's struggling with the same concept we all think should be solved by now. I mean, we'd all probably not be complaining with a Tannehill or Mayfield, but what exactly does that win us?
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Re: Lions-Vikings Game Day

Post by VikingLord » Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:43 pm

chicagopurple wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:27 am
The last 2 weeks have been fun for us Vikes fans but the Bears have a real Defensive line as opposed to the warm pile of manure that the Lions have assembled. If Cook tears up the the Bears this week, I will be VERY impressed. Same goes for Mr Cousins
Yup, this will be the key to the game and will tell us a lot about whether the apparent improvement in the Vikings offensive line is real or a mirage. The Bears have a good defensive front 7 and a solid run defense.
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Re: Lions-Vikings Game Day

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:01 pm

You guys wondering if the improvement on the O-line is real need to watch this.

Baldy's Breakdowns.

Anybody who's ever watched a Baldy's Breakdown knows his analysis is solid. This breakdown tells you a lot.

Now granted, the Bears' defense is way better than the Lions. But I think the evidence is there of real improvement.
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