Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by Maelstrom88 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:02 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:00 pm
Maelstrom88 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:56 pm


Agree. It's a race to sick quickest.
Not really. Cousins has had the 6th longest time in the pocket of any QB.
Cousins sucks too but our guards are a disaster and have been for a decade.
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:55 pm

Maelstrom88 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:02 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:00 pm


Not really. Cousins has had the 6th longest time in the pocket of any QB.
Cousins sucks too but our guards are a disaster and have been for a decade.
True, they just aren't the reason Reiff has given up so few pressures.
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by Maelstrom88 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:15 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:55 pm
Maelstrom88 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:02 pm


Cousins sucks too but our guards are a disaster and have been for a decade.
True, they just aren't the reason Reiff has given up so few pressures.
That may be. I don't claim to be an expert. Mostly just thought it was funny. I do think Ezra should start at LT the rest of the year though if that's how they envision the future.
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by Foreman44 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:21 am

We need a QB with some mobility. Like Wilson, Lewis. Not necessarily one that depends on the run, but capable of getting out of trouble. Cousins is a sitting duck...

Would it help with a better offensive line, without doubt...put many other QBS besides Cousins they would do fine,

Bree’s imo is Cousins like in mobility. But he releases the ball quickly...Cousins will never have that. If so he would have done so by now,

He is what he is. A statue QB that holds onto the ball way to long.

A top 5 offensive line is needed, he would probably have problems even then.

Time for change,...

1. New. QB.

2. New Coach, staff

3. New GM

4, might as well go full rebuild, sucks. But this team is going nowhere.
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:47 am

allday1991 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:00 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:11 pm

Riley Reiff has allowed the third-fewest pressures and has the fourth-best pass-block efficiency grade among OTs, per PFF. He's allowed zero sacks and hasn't committed a penalty. I'm not sure how much better the man could play. If there was a Pro Bowl, he'd be in it, based on his play this year.

And if I were Reiff, I'd be pissed right now. He's the one who took the massive pay cut in order to sign Cook and Ngakoue.
Reiff stats are a product of his crappy guards getting beat before him, he isn't giving up stacks because the guards do first, and do it quick. I always remember Reiff as a below average tackle that what have the occasional game where he got blown up, like the buffalo slaughter a few years ago when Hughes had his way with him, alllll game.
Yet another reason I continually ask myself why I frequent this board. It's like a damn drug addiction.

Stats and PFF are fine when they suit an argument, but when they don't, then it's back to unsubstantiated opinions. How about pressures? Third-fewest among all tackles. That has nothing to do with his guards. And Reiff has always been a good run blocker. Just go to the Seattle game, when none of us understood why we ran Mattison up the middle on 4th and 1 when the left side had been dominating.

Meanwhile, try READING something besides the uninformed narratives of dudes on this board. See what NFL analysts are saying. See what people who know the insides of NFL football are saying. The terms most used for Riley Reiff are "renaissance," "best season of his career" and "resurgence."

He's having a great season, no matter what you say. And honestly, for that reason, he probably has MORE trade value than at any time in his career. So why not dangle him out there to see what we can get? I mean, if we're gonna tank, let's do it right.
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by IIsweet » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:52 am

So my thoughts are that we definitely need an overhaul.... I have been very vocal in my lack of trust in Spielman and how stupid the constant trading down in the draft is. How are all of those trade down picks doing again? Oh yeah, they were all cut and the ones that stick, never get to see the field per our HC.
This is a Train Wreck right now between a GM that does not have the same vision as our HC.
I would love to see Eric Bienemy in here. Byron Leftwich is another guy that has been calling plays with Bruce Arians. I do not know how good of a HC these guys will be, but they are involved in the "new NFL offensive styles".
Cousins is going to be a serious cap hit if we get rid of him. Pending our draft position, I can envision a fire sale of veterans and their high salaries. I would rebuild with new interior OL in the draft. I would go to a NO/KC/TB type offense with Cousins. A lot of shotgun and pistol formations. 3 WR sets. Spread them out and a lot of quick passes and hit deep routes when you can.
Cousins throws a nice ball, just let him start deeper in the pocket and let him read the field. Let him audible and be the leader of that offense. Kind of like Brady/Brees/Peyton... I know that he is not those guys, but that to me will make the most sense.

Truthfully, removing the Zimmer effect and the Spielmanator is EXACTLY what we need ! New blood and fresh start. Some new energy would be ideal !!!!
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by VikingLord » Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:55 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:03 pm
VikingLord wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:51 pm

Shipping Ngakoue is basically waving the white flag and admitting that the original plan isn't going to pan out. Its an indication that both Spielman and Zimmer grossly underestimated the weaknesses on the team and, in the case of Dalvin Cook, were overly optimistic that his injury history was truly behind him.
He has missed one game and without him the rest of the season we would be the Jets. Wait a minute, you might be onto something here.
He missed part of the Seattle game and one full game.

This was the second time he's suffered a non-contact injury that forced him to leave a game and miss time.

There is a pattern here and I know you can see it as well as everybody else.
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by VikingLord » Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:57 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:47 am
Meanwhile, try READING something besides the uninformed narratives of dudes on this board. See what NFL analysts are saying. See what people who know the insides of NFL football are saying. The terms most used for Riley Reiff are "renaissance," "best season of his career" and "resurgence."
You forgot a few:

- Veteran
- Leader
- Took a pay cut to stay and play. Contrast that with other members of the team who will not be named...
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:02 am

VikingLord wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:57 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:47 am
Meanwhile, try READING something besides the uninformed narratives of dudes on this board. See what NFL analysts are saying. See what people who know the insides of NFL football are saying. The terms most used for Riley Reiff are "renaissance," "best season of his career" and "resurgence."
You forgot a few:

- Veteran
- Leader
- Took a pay cut to stay and play. Contrast that with other members of the team who will not be named...
Exactly.

I did mention the pay cut in an earlier post. He's part of the reason Ngakoue was here. And Cook got his money. And Cousins got even more money.

(There ... they've been named.)
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:05 am

VikingLord wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:55 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:03 pm

He has missed one game and without him the rest of the season we would be the Jets. Wait a minute, you might be onto something here.
He missed part of the Seattle game and one full game.

This was the second time he's suffered a non-contact injury that forced him to leave a game and miss time.

There is a pattern here and I know you can see it as well as everybody else.
I promised I wouldn't criticize Cook's contract, so ...

But it does bring up the larger point ... why I wouldn't pay big money to ANY running back. I stand behind that, even though I assume it still won't be popular on this board.
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:53 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:05 am
VikingLord wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:55 am


He missed part of the Seattle game and one full game.

This was the second time he's suffered a non-contact injury that forced him to leave a game and miss time.

There is a pattern here and I know you can see it as well as everybody else.
I promised I wouldn't criticize Cook's contract, so ...

But it does bring up the larger point ... why I wouldn't pay big money to ANY running back. I stand behind that, even though I assume it still won't be popular on this board.
I still think blanket statements like this are not wise, but in general your concerns are valid.

RBs, not just Cook, get hurt more than any other position and when you give them a big contract, you are going to pay them a lot of money to sit out a few games here and there. That is absolutely something to be concerned about and completely valid.

With Dalvin and his contract, if this Vikings team actually was capable of competing for a SB, extending him was the right move. He makes the offense much better, more than any other player on that offense. Obviously if he is not on the field he doesn't, but the reward of being a much better offense when he is on the field is worth the risk of him not always being available and the relatively small cap hit he actually accounts for over the next couple of seasons.

Heck, even if the Vikings aren't competitive, at least he makes the games somewhat enjoyable.

We now know that Mattison is not "good enough". We know the impact Cook has when he is healthy and that impact is worth more than what he is making to be honest. It is just that he needs to be healthy to make that impact.
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:21 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:47 am
allday1991 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:00 pm


Reiff stats are a product of his crappy guards getting beat before him, he isn't giving up stacks because the guards do first, and do it quick. I always remember Reiff as a below average tackle that what have the occasional game where he got blown up, like the buffalo slaughter a few years ago when Hughes had his way with him, alllll game.
Yet another reason I continually ask myself why I frequent this board. It's like a damn drug addiction.

Stats and PFF are fine when they suit an argument, but when they don't, then it's back to unsubstantiated opinions. How about pressures? Third-fewest among all tackles. That has nothing to do with his guards. And Reiff has always been a good run blocker. Just go to the Seattle game, when none of us understood why we ran Mattison up the middle on 4th and 1 when the left side had been dominating.

Meanwhile, try READING something besides the uninformed narratives of dudes on this board. See what NFL analysts are saying. See what people who know the insides of NFL football are saying. The terms most used for Riley Reiff are "renaissance," "best season of his career" and "resurgence."

He's having a great season, no matter what you say. And honestly, for that reason, he probably has MORE trade value than at any time in his career. So why not dangle him out there to see what we can get? I mean, if we're gonna tank, let's do it right.
This is what I've been saying the since the second Ngakoue was traded. The first thing that came to my mind was "Reiff!" I have zero idea why they would even bother holding onto him right now. Put Cleveland at LT, let him get 10 games of experience under his belt and let him learn this year. By the time we turn this around Reiff will be gone regardless. Let's get what we can for him and as you point out, his trade value will never get higher than it is right now.
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by psjordan » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:37 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:21 pm
This is what I've been saying the since the second Ngakoue was traded. The first thing that came to my mind was "Reiff!" I have zero idea why they would even bother holding onto him right now. Put Cleveland at LT, let him get 10 games of experience under his belt and let him learn this year. By the time we turn this around Reiff will be gone regardless. Let's get what we can for him and as you point out, his trade value will never get higher than it is right now.
Unless there is a feeling that Cleveland is not close to ready? It's one thing to say a WR isn't ready but we're going to throw him in there, but a suspect LT has serious implications for Sean Mannion seeing the field. And other than the Mannion family, I am not sure anyone wants to see that, regardless if we go 3-13.

Even if at some point they yank Kirk, chances are they still want to give Mannion a vet at LT, if for no other reason than to eliminate variables when evaluating whether Mannion can play.

Then again, maybe Cleveland is good to go right now.
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by VikingLord » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:49 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:02 am
VikingLord wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:57 am


You forgot a few:

- Veteran
- Leader
- Took a pay cut to stay and play. Contrast that with other members of the team who will not be named...
Exactly.

I did mention the pay cut in an earlier post. He's part of the reason Ngakoue was here. And Cook got his money. And Cousins got even more money.

(There ... they've been named.)
Don't forget about Harris. One good year and he makes bank, which is fine and good for him, but Spielman spent lavishly at safety on big contracts for Smith and Harris while the Vikings are starting rookies across the board at CB.

I think Aaron Rodgers must be wondering if he can break any single game passing records the next time he plays the Vikings...
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by VikingLord » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:51 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:21 pm
This is what I've been saying the since the second Ngakoue was traded. The first thing that came to my mind was "Reiff!" I have zero idea why they would even bother holding onto him right now. Put Cleveland at LT, let him get 10 games of experience under his belt and let him learn this year. By the time we turn this around Reiff will be gone regardless. Let's get what we can for him and as you point out, his trade value will never get higher than it is right now.
That's probably the next shoe to drop...

Well, that and Cousins announcing he's decided to hold out for the final 2.5 seasons of his deal because he feels he's now underpaid...
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