Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

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Foreman44
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by Foreman44 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:03 pm

VikingPaul73 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:22 am
I don't fault Rick for making this trade. Clearly we can't afford him next year, and clearly this year is a lost cause

What I do fault him for is the original trade in the first place. As I said when it happened, the ONLY way the original trade made sense is if we were contenders this year. Just another example of Rick COMPLETELY mis-gauging where this team was at, just as with the Bradford trade. He really thought we had a Super Bowl window, so made a panic trade with Pierce opt-out and Hunter injury.

Totally clueless. Even casual fans knew there was no "window" this year.....how can a GM be so disconnected from the reality of his team?
Foreman44
You have to fault RS for-making the trade to begin with. This move was made because he made a stupid idiotic decision to begin with,
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by Foreman44 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:13 pm

vikeinmontana wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:16 pm
psjordan wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:17 am

I am guessing all parties had a frank discussion, and Ngakoue told the Vikes he would not re-sign into this mess.
What did we just do? We cut our losses. Should be a very interesting remainder of season!
I agree. This is a business. He probably made it very clear he wouldn't be signing with the Vikes. He's a Maryland guy and probably always wanted to go to the Ravens. Get what you can get now opposed to getting nothing this spring.
Foreman44

This could be true. If you were nagouke would you rather play for Baltimore or Minn. Baltimore has a contending chance, vikings in same boat as the jets... losers
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by Maelstrom88 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:26 pm

Absolutely atrocious. Lose a high second for a low 3rd. I don't think Ngakoue is quite worth the money long-term to this team as I don't think you can pay two elite pass rushers top dollar... unless you have a QB on a rookie contract. However, you should at least have franchise tagged him for a year to get more out of this trade. This and the Bradford panic moves are enough to fire Spielman imo.

I think they should do an absolute firesale and get rid of Smith, Harris, Reiff, and Rudy. Who plays safety? Who cares. Ezra should start at LT. I'd also trade Kirk if I could find any suitors but you won't. Just a disaster.
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by MikethePurple » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:29 pm

I wasn't a fan of this trade from the get go because I think most of us outside of the building were looking at this as a rebuilding year where there wasn't going to be serious contention. To trade for a guy who clearly was looking to get paid who was only under contract for a year with a pretty dicey cap situation as it is made no sense. There were no guarantees beyond one year and if you did try to extend him, you were more than likely going to have to pay him more than you were paying Hunter which is ridiculous. People have stated this earlier, the lack of foresight in this trade is seriously problematic and makes it obvious that the wrong people are making decisions for this organization right now.
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by YikesVikes » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:30 pm

Cliff wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:21 pm
This doesn't seem ridiculous to me.

The 2nd rounder was gone regardless at this point and having him on the team is basically worthless. It was a 1 year contract meaning at the end of the year the Vikings get nothing. They're getting a 3rd instead of nothing. Or am I missing something?
Why give up a 2nd rounder if you didn't intend on signing the guy. Its idiotic.
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by YikesVikes » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:30 pm

MikethePurple wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:29 pm
I wasn't a fan of this trade from the get go because I think most of us outside of the building were looking at this as a rebuilding year where there wasn't going to be serious contention. To trade for a guy who clearly was looking to get paid who was only under contract for a year with a pretty dicey cap situation as it is made no sense. There were no guarantees beyond one year and if you did try to extend him, you were more than likely going to have to pay him more than you were paying Hunter which is ridiculous. People have stated this earlier, the lack of foresight in this trade is seriously problematic and makes it obvious that the wrong people are making decisions for this organization right now.
Bingo!!!
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by VikingLord » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:32 pm

Tark wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:13 pm
And the fudge packers are coming up next. I might skip watching that game to get a wide awake colonoscopy. :ripple:
:rofl:

Hopefully that won't be televised, but if it were it would probably get higher ratings than the Vikings...
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by VikingLord » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:51 pm

Cliff wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:21 pm
This doesn't seem ridiculous to me.

The 2nd rounder was gone regardless at this point and having him on the team is basically worthless. It was a 1 year contract meaning at the end of the year the Vikings get nothing. They're getting a 3rd instead of nothing. Or am I missing something?
If you look at it from the "spilled milk" perspective, I agree it's not ridiculous. The deal was done. The 2nd rounder that is now looking very valuable was already gone, and this move to ship Ngakoue is just cutting losses. It's hard to fault Spielman if that is all that is considered.

But the bigger issue is, why did he make the initial trade in the first place?

As others noted, Reiff was almost shipped to essentially pay for the Cook extension and to bring in Ngakoue. Spielman felt both of those moves took priority over keeping arguably the best player on the offensive line here. Reiff took the cut and stayed, but that was more because of Reiff and the economic realities of his situation than any astute moves by Spielman. He could easily be gone right now and does anyone want to imagine how the Vikings offense would look if that were the case?

And then there is the overall wisdom of making a trade for a pass rusher and paying what he did in the situation the Vikings were in at the time he made the move. I get it - Spielman and Zimmer realized the early sailing was going to be rough with their young CBs, and one way to compensate for that would be to get a better pass rush. In theory that buys time for the young guys to mature and hopefully get good enough where the compensation is no longer necessary. Spielman might have even believe he'd only need Ngakoue for the year, after which the secondary play would be strong enough that re-signing him wouldn't be a priority.

It's pretty clear at 1-5, though, that plan hasn't worked out and wasn't going to work out. Ngakoue hasn't improved the pass rush sufficiently to make enough of a difference, if he could realistically have been expected to do it at all.

It also seems clear that both Spielman and Zimmer thought they had a winner this year. The moves they made seemed to indicate they thought they could compensate for the obvious weak spots on the team while remaining competitive and basically grind their way out of those weak spots. It hasn't turned out that way.

Shipping Ngakoue is basically waving the white flag and admitting that the original plan isn't going to pan out. Its an indication that both Spielman and Zimmer grossly underestimated the weaknesses on the team and, in the case of Dalvin Cook, were overly optimistic that his injury history was truly behind him.

This is always what happens when poor decisions are made. The hole just gets deeper. To get out of one bad move or bad break, more bad moves are usually made until the hole is so hopelessly deep it's easier to just fill it in and bury whatever is in it and start over. Spielman is like a gambler who has lost all his chips and is borrowing against the house and betting bigger to try to get even. I wonder how much longer it is going to take for the Wilfs to understand that.
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by psjordan » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:20 pm

Unfortunately, you have to really go back to Toby Gerhart to find where we whiffed on a #2. Second round seems to have been a sweet spot the last several years. Oh well.
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by Foreman44 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:32 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:51 pm
Cliff wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:21 pm
This doesn't seem ridiculous to me.

The 2nd rounder was gone regardless at this point and having him on the team is basically worthless. It was a 1 year contract meaning at the end of the year the Vikings get nothing. They're getting a 3rd instead of nothing. Or am I missing something?
If you look at it from the "spilled milk" perspective, I agree it's not ridiculous. The deal was done. The 2nd rounder that is now looking very valuable was already gone, and this move to ship Ngakoue is just cutting losses. It's hard to fault Spielman if that is all that is considered.

But the bigger issue is, why did he make the initial trade in the first place?

As others noted, Reiff was almost shipped to essentially pay for the Cook extension and to bring in Ngakoue. Spielman felt both of those moves took priority over keeping arguably the best player on the offensive line here. Reiff took the cut and stayed, but that was more because of Reiff and the economic realities of his situation than any astute moves by Spielman. He could easily be gone right now and does anyone want to imagine how the Vikings offense would look if that were the case?

And then there is the overall wisdom of making a trade for a pass rusher and paying what he did in the situation the Vikings were in at the time he made the move. I get it - Spielman and Zimmer realized the early sailing was going to be rough with their young CBs, and one way to compensate for that would be to get a better pass rush. In theory that buys time for the young guys to mature and hopefully get good enough where the compensation is no longer necessary. Spielman might have even believe he'd only need Ngakoue for the year, after which the secondary play would be strong enough that re-signing him wouldn't be a priority.

It's pretty clear at 1-5, though, that plan hasn't worked out and wasn't going to work out. Ngakoue hasn't improved the pass rush sufficiently to make enough of a difference, if he could realistically have been expected to do it at all.

It also seems clear that both Spielman and Zimmer thought they had a winner this year. The moves they made seemed to indicate they thought they could compensate for the obvious weak spots on the team while remaining competitive and basically grind their way out of those weak spots. It hasn't turned out that way.

Shipping Ngakoue is basically waving the white flag and admitting that the original plan isn't going to pan out. Its an indication that both Spielman and Zimmer grossly underestimated the weaknesses on the team and, in the case of Dalvin Cook, were overly optimistic that his injury history was truly behind him.

This is always what happens when poor decisions are made. The hole just gets deeper. To get out of one bad move or bad break, more bad moves are usually made until the hole is so hopelessly deep it's easier to just fill it in and bury whatever is in it and start over. Spielman is like a gambler who has lost all his chips and is borrowing against the house and betting bigger to try to get even. I wonder how much longer it is going to take for the Wilfs to understand that.
Foreman44

Well said. Deal should have never been made without intent on need and to keep
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by allday1991 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:00 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:11 pm
allday1991 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:03 am


No other GM is dumb enough in this league to trade for Reiff under his current contract. Arguably a bottom 20-25 starting tackle in the league getting paid like a top 10.
Riley Reiff has allowed the third-fewest pressures and has the fourth-best pass-block efficiency grade among OTs, per PFF. He's allowed zero sacks and hasn't committed a penalty. I'm not sure how much better the man could play. If there was a Pro Bowl, he'd be in it, based on his play this year.

And if I were Reiff, I'd be pissed right now. He's the one who took the massive pay cut in order to sign Cook and Ngakoue.
Reiff stats are a product of his crappy guards getting beat before him, he isn't giving up stacks because the guards do first, and do it quick. I always remember Reiff as a below average tackle that what have the occasional game where he got blown up, like the buffalo slaughter a few years ago when Hughes had his way with him, alllll game.
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:03 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:51 pm

Shipping Ngakoue is basically waving the white flag and admitting that the original plan isn't going to pan out. Its an indication that both Spielman and Zimmer grossly underestimated the weaknesses on the team and, in the case of Dalvin Cook, were overly optimistic that his injury history was truly behind him.
He has missed one game and without him the rest of the season we would be the Jets. Wait a minute, you might be onto something here.
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by allday1991 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:10 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:11 pm
allday1991 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:03 am


No other GM is dumb enough in this league to trade for Reiff under his current contract. Arguably a bottom 20-25 starting tackle in the league getting paid like a top 10.
Riley Reiff has allowed the third-fewest pressures and has the fourth-best pass-block efficiency grade among OTs, per PFF. He's allowed zero sacks and hasn't committed a penalty. I'm not sure how much better the man could play. If there was a Pro Bowl, he'd be in it, based on his play this year.

And if I were Reiff, I'd be pissed right now. He's the one who took the massive pay cut in order to sign Cook and Ngakoue.
Reiff stats are a product of his crappy guards getting beat before him, he isn't giving up sacks because the guards do first, and do it quick. I always remember Reiff as a below average tackle that what have the occasional game where he got blown up, like the buffalo slaughter a few years ago when Hughes had his way with him, alllll game.
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by Maelstrom88 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:56 pm

allday1991 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:10 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:11 pm

Riley Reiff has allowed the third-fewest pressures and has the fourth-best pass-block efficiency grade among OTs, per PFF. He's allowed zero sacks and hasn't committed a penalty. I'm not sure how much better the man could play. If there was a Pro Bowl, he'd be in it, based on his play this year.

And if I were Reiff, I'd be pissed right now. He's the one who took the massive pay cut in order to sign Cook and Ngakoue.
Reiff stats are a product of his crappy guards getting beat before him, he isn't giving up sacks because the guards do first, and do it quick. I always remember Reiff as a below average tackle that what have the occasional game where he got blown up, like the buffalo slaughter a few years ago when Hughes had his way with him, alllll game.
Agree. It's a race to suck quickest.
Last edited by Maelstrom88 on Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vikings in full tank mode - trade Ngakoue

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:00 pm

Maelstrom88 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:56 pm
allday1991 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:10 pm


Reiff stats are a product of his crappy guards getting beat before him, he isn't giving up sacks because the guards do first, and do it quick. I always remember Reiff as a below average tackle that what have the occasional game where he got blown up, like the buffalo slaughter a few years ago when Hughes had his way with him, alllll game.
Agree. It's a race to sick quickest.
Not really. Cousins has had the 6th longest time in the pocket of any QB.
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