The true mark of a losing season...dysfunction

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PacificNorseWest
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The true mark of a losing season...dysfunction

Post by PacificNorseWest » Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:07 pm

Vikings’ Mike Zimmer, Kirk Cousins Share Troubling Disconnect After Titans Loss
“I want our offense, you know, those guys are all veteran guys. I want them to take charge in those moments when we have the opportunity to go down and win the football game. Instead, it was chaos,” Zimmer said. “So we’re going to have to get that squared away...The last possession, when you’ve got a chance to go down and win the game with a field goal, is a complete disaster,” Zimmer said. “Those are the things that are causing us to lose.”
“Anytime you have almost 500 yards and score 30 points you’re doing something correct,” Cousins said.
https://heavy.com/sports/minnesota-viki ... sconnect/

I'm just going to watch how this unfolds, because as much as I feel this is overblown, possibly out of context, etc., I also believe where there's smoke, someone or something is always standing by with lighter fluid or a fire extinguisher. Typically, the latter is possessed by a solid winning streak....the former could be anywhere.

Personally, I think they both are falling short on leadership. That's a problem.
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Re: The true mark of a losing season...dysfunction

Post by vikeinmontana » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:52 am

They’re both right. :whistle:
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Re: The true mark of a losing season...dysfunction

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:16 am

PacificNorseWest wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:07 pm
Vikings’ Mike Zimmer, Kirk Cousins Share Troubling Disconnect After Titans Loss
“I want our offense, you know, those guys are all veteran guys. I want them to take charge in those moments when we have the opportunity to go down and win the football game. Instead, it was chaos,” Zimmer said. “So we’re going to have to get that squared away...The last possession, when you’ve got a chance to go down and win the game with a field goal, is a complete disaster,” Zimmer said. “Those are the things that are causing us to lose.”
“Anytime you have almost 500 yards and score 30 points you’re doing something correct,” Cousins said.
https://heavy.com/sports/minnesota-viki ... sconnect/

I'm just going to watch how this unfolds, because as much as I feel this is overblown, possibly out of context, etc., I also believe where there's smoke, someone or something is always standing by with lighter fluid or a fire extinguisher. Typically, the latter is possessed by a solid winning streak....the former could be anywhere.

Personally, I think they both are falling short on leadership. That's a problem.
I think you’re exactly right.

It absolutely amazes me that the Vikings would extend BOTH Zimmer and Cousins within a short period of time. Together they’re 19-17-1. The very definition of mediocrity. Zimmer wants to control the clock. Cousins, at his core, wants to sling it. Before he came to Minnesota, he threw it all over the yard. Now he’s been molded (browbeat) into a game manager on a team with a bad defense. Those types of teams need a Russell Wilson or a Deshaun Watson, guys who can improvise and find ways to make first downs. Cousins can’t do that. But at one time in his career, he could move an offense through the air.

So now against the Titans, when we needed Cousins to be more than a game manager at the end of the game, Zimmer complains. The same coach who has coached any gunslinging tendencies out of his quarterback, who has insisted on an offense that controls clock and doesn’t turn it over, now expects that quarterback to flip a switch and suddenly gunsling his way to the winning score.

There is a definite lack of leadership. Part of leadership is preparing for any situation. The Minnesota Vikings have hired a coach who expects to be in the lead at the end of every game, and a quarterback who has historically failed when his team is behind late.

It’s a match made in hell.
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Re: The true mark of a losing season...dysfunction

Post by StumpHunter » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:25 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:16 am
PacificNorseWest wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:07 pm
Vikings’ Mike Zimmer, Kirk Cousins Share Troubling Disconnect After Titans Loss





https://heavy.com/sports/minnesota-viki ... sconnect/

I'm just going to watch how this unfolds, because as much as I feel this is overblown, possibly out of context, etc., I also believe where there's smoke, someone or something is always standing by with lighter fluid or a fire extinguisher. Typically, the latter is possessed by a solid winning streak....the former could be anywhere.

Personally, I think they both are falling short on leadership. That's a problem.
I think you’re exactly right.

It absolutely amazes me that the Vikings would extend BOTH Zimmer and Cousins within a short period of time. Together they’re 19-17-1. The very definition of mediocrity. Zimmer wants to control the clock. Cousins, at his core, wants to sling it. Before he came to Minnesota, he threw it all over the yard. Now he’s been molded (browbeat) into a game manager on a team with a bad defense. Those types of teams need a Russell Wilson or a Deshaun Watson, guys who can improvise and find ways to make first downs. Cousins can’t do that. But at one time in his career, he could move an offense through the air.

So now against the Titans, when we needed Cousins to be more than a game manager at the end of the game, Zimmer complains. The same coach who has coached any gunslinging tendencies out of his quarterback, who has insisted on an offense that controls clock and doesn’t turn it over, now expects that quarterback to flip a switch and suddenly gunsling his way to the winning score.

There is a definite lack of leadership. Part of leadership is preparing for any situation. The Minnesota Vikings have hired a coach who expects to be in the lead at the end of every game, and a quarterback who has historically failed when his team is behind late.

It’s a match made in hell.
Cousins' highest deep ball percentage came in 2019, in Cousins best season of his career, so I don't think Zimmer is trying to hold Cousins back. Zimmer doesn't want his QB to not sling it, he wants him to not turn the ball over. Whatever else the QB does, as long as they move the football I don't really think he cares.

Where Zimmer appears to have an issue with Cousins is where I also have an issue. He is a QB who puts up big stats in losses and struggles to do the things that help the team win, something Zimmer specifically called out in 2015. He is also a QB who the Vikings broke the bank on, something he specifically said he did not want to do prior to the Vikings signing Cousins. Zimmer would rather spend that money spent on the QB to make the team around the QB better, and it turns out Zim was absolutely right about wanting to do that.
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Re: The true mark of a losing season...dysfunction

Post by TSonn » Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:14 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:25 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:16 am

I think you’re exactly right.

It absolutely amazes me that the Vikings would extend BOTH Zimmer and Cousins within a short period of time. Together they’re 19-17-1. The very definition of mediocrity. Zimmer wants to control the clock. Cousins, at his core, wants to sling it. Before he came to Minnesota, he threw it all over the yard. Now he’s been molded (browbeat) into a game manager on a team with a bad defense. Those types of teams need a Russell Wilson or a Deshaun Watson, guys who can improvise and find ways to make first downs. Cousins can’t do that. But at one time in his career, he could move an offense through the air.

So now against the Titans, when we needed Cousins to be more than a game manager at the end of the game, Zimmer complains. The same coach who has coached any gunslinging tendencies out of his quarterback, who has insisted on an offense that controls clock and doesn’t turn it over, now expects that quarterback to flip a switch and suddenly gunsling his way to the winning score.

There is a definite lack of leadership. Part of leadership is preparing for any situation. The Minnesota Vikings have hired a coach who expects to be in the lead at the end of every game, and a quarterback who has historically failed when his team is behind late.

It’s a match made in hell.
Cousins' highest deep ball percentage came in 2019, in Cousins best season of his career, so I don't think Zimmer is trying to hold Cousins back. Zimmer doesn't want his QB to not sling it, he wants him to not turn the ball over. Whatever else the QB does, as long as they move the football I don't really think he cares.

Where Zimmer appears to have an issue with Cousins is where I also have an issue. He is a QB who puts up big stats in losses and struggles to do the things that help the team win, something Zimmer specifically called out in 2015. He is also a QB who the Vikings broke the bank on, something he specifically said he did not want to do prior to the Vikings signing Cousins. Zimmer would rather spend that money spent on the QB to make the team around the QB better, and it turns out Zim was absolutely right about wanting to do that.
I would say the same could be said about Zimmer's defenses - even between 2016 - 2018 when they were considered a top 3 squad. In the end, I think Zimmer and Cousins have very similar traits and are about the same talent level at their profession.
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Re: The true mark of a losing season...dysfunction

Post by StumpHunter » Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:38 pm

TSonn wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:14 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:25 pm


Cousins' highest deep ball percentage came in 2019, in Cousins best season of his career, so I don't think Zimmer is trying to hold Cousins back. Zimmer doesn't want his QB to not sling it, he wants him to not turn the ball over. Whatever else the QB does, as long as they move the football I don't really think he cares.

Where Zimmer appears to have an issue with Cousins is where I also have an issue. He is a QB who puts up big stats in losses and struggles to do the things that help the team win, something Zimmer specifically called out in 2015. He is also a QB who the Vikings broke the bank on, something he specifically said he did not want to do prior to the Vikings signing Cousins. Zimmer would rather spend that money spent on the QB to make the team around the QB better, and it turns out Zim was absolutely right about wanting to do that.
I would say the same could be said about Zimmer's defenses - even between 2016 - 2018 when they were considered a top 3 squad. In the end, I think Zimmer and Cousins have very similar traits and are about the same talent level at their profession.
Tough to compare coaches to players with things like this, but I am done defending Zimmer. I don't think he will be the coach much longer and while he hasn't ever had the talent to win it all, that doesn't mean he could win it all if given that talent.

Time to move on from the GM, HC and QB.
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