Points and yards given up in 3 games most in history

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Re: Points and yards given up in 3 games most in history

Post by vikeinmontana » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:27 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:12 pm
News flash.

Our defense isn't very good.
They’re not. And young and banged up. And they’re on the field all game. Not a recipe for success.
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Re: Points and yards given up in 3 games most in history

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:50 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:12 pm
News flash.

Our defense isn't very good.
Nobody is saying they are.
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Re: Points and yards given up in 3 games most in history

Post by TSonn » Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:37 am

vikeinmontana wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:27 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:12 pm
News flash.

Our defense isn't very good.
They’re not. And young and banged up. And they’re on the field all game. Not a recipe for success.
They'd probably be on the field much less if they weren't allowing 150 yards rushing per game and nearly 300 yards passing per game.
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Re: Points and yards given up in 3 games most in history

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:44 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:44 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:32 pm


Eh, I wouldnt say that. This defensive line would've been better. But CBs would've been worse. So if anything I think it would be a wash compared to last year. Maybe a little better given our pass rush and run defense would be better. The increased pass rush wouldnt be asking these CBs to cover for nearly as long. So really it improves two areas. I would say it would definitely be a solid defense with some inexperience at CB. Sure we'd be missing a viable 3 tech but we were last year as well.
Are you saying that the secondary we have this year is better than the one we had last year? I just want to clarify because that is a bold statement based on the first 3 weeks of the season.

My point was that with this current secondary, even if with Hunter, Barr and Pierce, this defense would be below average and giving up a lot of points. Not as susceptible to the run, but teams would still be passing at will on us.

The pass rush has not been the problem as much as players are open too quickly downfield and it isn't allowing our Dline time to get to the QB.

Just to prove what I mean, in week 1, Rodgers threw the ball in under 2.5 seconds 31 times and over 2.5 seconds just 13 times. Rivers threw it 15 times under 2.5 to 10 over. Tannehill 23 under to 16 over.

That is a very small number of attempts over 2.5 seconds that would even allow our lineman a shot at the QB. To put that in perspective, last year when we faced Rodgers in two games he had 40 attempts under 2.5 seconds, and 39 over 2.5, and was pressured a ton in those games. The secondary plays a huge role in getting pressure on the QB, and they are not playing that role this year. At all. They are awful.

Rhodes' is year was bad last year, no question about that, but even in his worst year he only gave 1.5 yards per coverage snap, which is .57 yards fewer than our #1 CB Holton Hill, .75 yards fewer than Dantzler and 1.43 yards fewer than Gladney. :puke: The only corner who has been better than Rhodes was is Hughes, and that is only by .07 yards. So the best CB this year is as bad as the worst CB last year, and would probably be worse if his teammates weren't leaving guys more open than he is.

It turns out rookies don't make good starting CBs most of the time and Hill was the #5 CB for a reason.

I don't want to give up on our rookies just yet though. Almost all rookie corners are sucking this year. There are a few exceptions like Jaylon Johnson of the Bears and L'Jarious Sneed of the Chiefs, but for the most part they have all looked like Gladney and Danztler.
No I'm NOT saying our secondary is better this year than last year. Our secondary struggled last year but they were also very experienced. Our secondary this year will continue to make multiple rookie mistakes and are very inexperienced.

I get what you're saying about the quick hitter passes given who we have faced but Hunter is not only an elite pass rusher but an elite run defender as well. Pair that with Pierce. And these teams are looking at more 3rd and longs than they did when we played them this year. This is why Zim's 3rd down defense has always been top of the league. Because you're looking at more down and distance where deeper drops are needed and routes need time to develop. This then allows Hunter and Yannick to pin their ears back and gives these corners less time covering. It's really a domino effect and why everything starts with your DL.
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Re: Points and yards given up in 3 games most in history

Post by Cliff » Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:51 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:12 pm
News flash.

Our defense isn't very good.
Not just not very good - on pace to be the worst a Vikings defense ever.
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Re: Points and yards given up in 3 games most in history

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:33 pm

On a related note ... several Vikings players tested positive for COVI.

It’s like COVID, but no D.
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Re: Points and yards given up in 3 games most in history

Post by Denardus » Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:06 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:33 pm
On a related note ... several Vikings players tested positive for COVI.

It’s like COVID, but no D.
Now that’s some funny stuff right thar.
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Re: Points and yards given up in 3 games most in history

Post by S197 » Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:12 pm

I think far too much credit is getting put on Michael Pierce, a guy that was cut and has frequently come in out of shape and overweight. I'm sure he would be an improvement over what we have now in run D but some are making it like he's the next Pat Williams. There's a very real possibility he would have been a downgrade from Linval.

Sharpe was the same way, he was supposed to be a solid #3 WR and he's essentially done nothing. People were pounding the table for Samia and he's pretty awful. What I'm saying is there's usually a good reason teams walk away from guys or they're sitting on the bench.
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Re: Points and yards given up in 3 games most in history

Post by Passepartout » Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:13 pm

Really it is about closing the clock and in the clock management. And in the having to finish the game. It is how you finish not start really.
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Re: Points and yards given up in 3 games most in history

Post by CharVike » Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:42 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:54 am
Injuries and poor cap management, and familiarity with the Zimmer defensive scheme have made this defense a shell of its former self, but scoring is up all over the league, not just against the Vikings.

If you are playing fantasy football you are seeing point totals regularly that you typically see once a season. TD and yards everywhere.

It is either officiating or the league having more talented offenses.

It looks like there are only 6 truly bad offenses this year:
No names
Jets
Giants
Broncos
Chargers
Eagles
I've posted this before but Zimmer's D IMO was never that great when we played teams that can move the ball. We shut out the Packers which padded the stats but the only reason why that happened is because Rodgers was out. When Rodgers plays they can score when ever they feel like it. The year we made it to the Champ game in Philly with a bum at QB and a great stat D that really couldn't stop a team that could score I thought crap I never thought we could make the show with a total stiff at QB and half arse D that was ranked top 5 for some reason. Of course our great D was ripped to shreds by a stiff QB who happened to have the hot hand at that point. This stiff QB wasn't even sure if he really wanted to play football anymore. At that point a great D lays the wood to that stiff. Our D didn't do anything. The bum looked like the greatest QB that ever played the game. Even last year when Cousins beat the Saints in the playoffs the D did nothing. They let some stiff backup QB do whatever he wanted to. He made it look easy. Zim got lucky because the Saints HC kept going back to Brees which was a tremendous break for us. Otherwise we were done. Then Zim's great D makes the stiff Jimmy G look better than Rodgers. Zim is considered by the experts as a defensive genius but I don't see that. Since he's been with us teams that can score do so easily. Yes he'll shut down the stiffs. That will never get a team over the hump. There are few stiffs once in the playoffs. I like a D that brings tremendous pressure on the QB like the way Buddy Ryan always built a D. Bring big time heat and all QBs have a hard time. Week one this year Rodgers was never touched. You can't beat him that way. Last year the 49ers got after him and made him a mortal QB. Zim always plays this bend but don't break BS. I say the heck with that get after the QB. Make him put it up. That forces the issue.
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Re: Points and yards given up in 3 games most in history

Post by halfgiz » Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:15 am

I still think it is interesting the mass exodus we had on defense during the off season.
When is the last time we have seen that? What is/was the problem?
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Re: Points and yards given up in 3 games most in history

Post by S197 » Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:13 pm

halfgiz wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:15 am
I still think it is interesting the mass exodus we had on defense during the off season.
When is the last time we have seen that? What is/was the problem?
Unlike the MLB, there's a salary cap. Handing out large contracts has consequences.
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Re: Points and yards given up in 3 games most in history

Post by vikeinmontana » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:19 pm

TSonn wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:37 am
vikeinmontana wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:27 pm


They’re not. And young and banged up. And they’re on the field all game. Not a recipe for success.
They'd probably be on the field much less if they weren't allowing 150 yards rushing per game and nearly 300 yards passing per game.
This is obviously true. It's a chicken and egg scenario though. We're still near the bottom of the league in time of possession. In the first couple games that was on the offense. We turned the ball over and had far too many three and outs. Our defense was on the field all game long. We were dead last in time of possession and our opponents were 1st and 2nd. I never played defense but I can't imagine it's easy doing your job great when you never get to rest.

Though I'll concede they've had their chances to get off the field and failed to do that. It's why I don't understand why some people like to lay all the blame on one guy or one unit in the ultimate team game. They all play their part, and the success of one unit relies on the success of the other units. It's why great line play can make average qb's look awesome. Why amazing qb's can still perform behind lousy lines. Why running backs run wild behind a great line and then look average when they play for another team.

So many moving parts. Goes WAY beyond "our defense sucks" or "Cousins blows" :lol:
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Re: Points and yards given up in 3 games most in history

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:16 pm

CharVike wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:42 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:54 am
Injuries and poor cap management, and familiarity with the Zimmer defensive scheme have made this defense a shell of its former self, but scoring is up all over the league, not just against the Vikings.

If you are playing fantasy football you are seeing point totals regularly that you typically see once a season. TD and yards everywhere.

It is either officiating or the league having more talented offenses.

It looks like there are only 6 truly bad offenses this year:
No names
Jets
Giants
Broncos
Chargers
Eagles
I've posted this before but Zimmer's D IMO was never that great when we played teams that can move the ball. We shut out the Packers which padded the stats but the only reason why that happened is because Rodgers was out. When Rodgers plays they can score when ever they feel like it. The year we made it to the Champ game in Philly with a bum at QB and a great stat D that really couldn't stop a team that could score I thought crap I never thought we could make the show with a total stiff at QB and half arse D that was ranked top 5 for some reason. Of course our great D was ripped to shreds by a stiff QB who happened to have the hot hand at that point. This stiff QB wasn't even sure if he really wanted to play football anymore. At that point a great D lays the wood to that stiff. Our D didn't do anything. The bum looked like the greatest QB that ever played the game. Even last year when Cousins beat the Saints in the playoffs the D did nothing. They let some stiff backup QB do whatever he wanted to. He made it look easy. Zim got lucky because the Saints HC kept going back to Brees which was a tremendous break for us. Otherwise we were done. Then Zim's great D makes the stiff Jimmy G look better than Rodgers. Zim is considered by the experts as a defensive genius but I don't see that. Since he's been with us teams that can score do so easily. Yes he'll shut down the stiffs. That will never get a team over the hump. There are few stiffs once in the playoffs. I like a D that brings tremendous pressure on the QB like the way Buddy Ryan always built a D. Bring big time heat and all QBs have a hard time. Week one this year Rodgers was never touched. You can't beat him that way. Last year the 49ers got after him and made him a mortal QB. Zim always plays this bend but don't break BS. I say the heck with that get after the QB. Make him put it up. That forces the issue.
I'm no longer a Zimmer apologist, so take what I'm about to post with that in mind. But you gotta get facts before you post stuff like this.

Here's the truth, directly from Sports Illustrated.
Combined, Zimmer's teams are 6-5-1 against the Packers. Rodgers has completed 62.1 percent of his passes with 19 touchdowns, four interceptions and a rating of 94.2. Only once has Rodgers thrown for 300 yards against a Zimmer defense. In five games at Minnesota, Rodgers has never thrown for more than 213 yards.
Aaron Rodgers, until this season's opener, has historically struggled against Zimmer's Vikings more than any other team.

Again, I'm no apologist. I'm not happy with the job Zimmer is doing this year. But facts are facts.
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Re: Points and yards given up in 3 games most in history

Post by PacificNorseWest » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:50 pm

Rodgers and GB haven't lost to Minnesota since when? 2018 now? It's starting to even out...that is, Rodgers versus a Zimmer defense.

I think the secondary will settle in eventually. The rookies haven't looked all that bad really. There will still be rookie mistakes along the way, but also, there lack of a run stopper and another pass rusher is going to be concerning all season, most likely. The offense is going to have to stay consistent and tighten up the mistakes down the stretch, a la Seattle with Russ, if they hope to be competitive the rest of the way. Not much room for error when you start 0-3.
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