Titanic failure game thread

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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by YikesVikes » Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:41 am

You listed a bunch of QBs that you assumed wouldn't have been able to do anything with the pressure we saw on Sunday and that's ####. Almost every one of those guys would have been able to do something with one of the 4 plays we saw Sunday. We rarely see offenses run by those guys look as inept as we saw Sunday. This Brees play breakdown is almost exactly the same. Huge pressure with a team rushing 3. What's the difference. The answer is the player and how he handles it.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/57pUTNaq9Q4 [/youtube]
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:07 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:15 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:03 am


Again, what? Go watch the play again. Rudy isnt even looking and by the looks of it was running either a seam route or a post over the middle. How can Cousins throw it when his TE isnt even halfway through his route? Do you want him to hit Rudolph in the back of the head? So then what? You can say he panicked under pressure? Literally every pass catcher for the Vikings was out of the screen and you're sitting here saying he missed the read. He made an excellent play, the LBs bailed to cover the deep middle of the field which opens up a running lane.

Again, this is nitpicking through and through. You used a good play he made to try and knock him? No less when every pass catcher was out of the screen and you couldnt even see the rest of the play. You're literally finding plays and trying to dissect them so you can somehow point the finger at him when there are much bigger problems than Kirk Cousins right now
Actually you can see Kyle look back. He's not running a seam, you see him start to settle down before going off screen. The problem is Cousins pumpfakes instead of delivering the ball. He is a cause of much of his pressure and then we blame the online. This is why you see the oline is at fault I see the Cousins is sometimes to blame. He has the longest time to throw in the league. How can you oline be that garbage and you consistently are last in time to throw even when accounting for play action? Easy answer, the QB is holding on to the ball too long.
You're literally trying to speak on a guys route out of assumption. You saw the LBs bailing back towards Rudy and you have no idea where Rudy went. You also werent down on the field to know what was really there. So to be honest, it's a very weak argument on your part. No less Cousins did a good job getting out of the pocket and gaining a first down on that play.

And no, we dont just "blame the OL". Have you seen the interior pass block? There is a reason nobody complains about O'Neill's pass blocking. Why? Because he does his job. There is a reason nobody is complaining about Reiff's pass blocking this year. Because he's doing his job. You see people complain about the other 3 because they are AWFUL at their job (in terms of pass protection). There is a reason PFF has O'Neill and Reiff with good grades and the other 3 with very bad grades. Bradbury has been "okay" compared to last year but still not stellar. Right guard is by far the worst right now and Dozier doesnt help anything on the left side. It's not like these guys are holding their blocks, holding their blocks, holding their blocks and then boom Cousins gets sacked. When they get beat, it's BAD. They get overpowered directly backwards into Cousins collapsing the pocket or get flat out burnt.

Sure Cousins has held the ball too long before. But that was not the case this game. FYI, I think the whole next gen stat is bogus and doesnt give an accurate picture of what goes on. However, Cousins is 6th in time to throw this year, and was 12th against the Titans. So I guess I dont get why you're trying to use that stat because it's actually working against what you're trying to say. You're digging at this point man.
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:13 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:41 am
You listed a bunch of QBs that you assumed wouldn't have been able to do anything with the pressure we saw on Sunday and that's ####. Almost every one of those guys would have been able to do something with one of the 4 plays we saw Sunday. We rarely see offenses run by those guys look as inept as we saw Sunday. This Brees play breakdown is almost exactly the same. Huge pressure with a team rushing 3. What's the difference. The answer is the player and how he handles it.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/57pUTNaq9Q4 [/youtube]
I'm not going to lie, this is hilarious. You've been talking like you're a QB coach and explaining how quick the ball should be out on a 3 step drop out of the gun right? Was Brees not in the gun right there? Did Brees double clutch and fail to throw the ball right away? Because you said THIS about Cousins on his 10 yard scramble.....
It's a 3 yard drop back from the gun. The ball has to be out quick. He is late with the throw. Get the ball out.
That's exactly what Brees did and DID NOT get it out quick. He moved in the pocket and then threw a 10 yard TD. Instead of throwing for 10, Cousins ran for 10. So what in the world did you just prove right there other than absolutely nothing and just contradicted yourself?
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by YikesVikes » Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:25 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:13 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:41 am
You listed a bunch of QBs that you assumed wouldn't have been able to do anything with the pressure we saw on Sunday and that's ####. Almost every one of those guys would have been able to do something with one of the 4 plays we saw Sunday. We rarely see offenses run by those guys look as inept as we saw Sunday. This Brees play breakdown is almost exactly the same. Huge pressure with a team rushing 3. What's the difference. The answer is the player and how he handles it.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/57pUTNaq9Q4 [/youtube]
I'm not going to lie, this is hilarious. You've been talking like you're a QB coach and explaining how quick the ball should be out on a 3 step drop out of the gun right? Was Brees not in the gun right there? Did Brees double clutch and fail to throw the ball right away? Because you said THIS about Cousins on his 10 yard scramble.....
It's a 3 yard drop back from the gun. The ball has to be out quick. He is late with the throw. Get the ball out.
That's exactly what Brees did and DID NOT get it out quick. He moved in the pocket and then threw a 10 yard TD. Instead of throwing for 10, Cousins ran for 10. So what in the world did you just prove right there other than absolutely nothing and just contradicted yourself?
You didn't address my point. You just started talking about something else. Hair is pressure with a team rushing 3 and the quarterback fixes the issue that the o-line created. This is not unique to Drew Brees or Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. Great QB's are able to maneuver themselves in the pocket to buy their receivers more time. Kirk cannot and therefore he's not a great QB
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by YikesVikes » Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:26 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:07 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:15 am


Actually you can see Kyle look back. He's not running a seam, you see him start to settle down before going off screen. The problem is Cousins pumpfakes instead of delivering the ball. He is a cause of much of his pressure and then we blame the online. This is why you see the oline is at fault I see the Cousins is sometimes to blame. He has the longest time to throw in the league. How can you oline be that garbage and you consistently are last in time to throw even when accounting for play action? Easy answer, the QB is holding on to the ball too long.
You're literally trying to speak on a guys route out of assumption. You saw the LBs bailing back towards Rudy and you have no idea where Rudy went. You also werent down on the field to know what was really there. So to be honest, it's a very weak argument on your part. No less Cousins did a good job getting out of the pocket and gaining a first down on that play.

And no, we dont just "blame the OL". Have you seen the interior pass block? There is a reason nobody complains about O'Neill's pass blocking. Why? Because he does his job. There is a reason nobody is complaining about Reiff's pass blocking this year. Because he's doing his job. You see people complain about the other 3 because they are AWFUL at their job (in terms of pass protection). There is a reason PFF has O'Neill and Reiff with good grades and the other 3 with very bad grades. Bradbury has been "okay" compared to last year but still not stellar. Right guard is by far the worst right now and Dozier doesnt help anything on the left side. It's not like these guys are holding their blocks, holding their blocks, holding their blocks and then boom Cousins gets sacked. When they get beat, it's BAD. They get overpowered directly backwards into Cousins collapsing the pocket or get flat out burnt.

Sure Cousins has held the ball too long before. But that was not the case this game. FYI, I think the whole next gen stat is bogus and doesnt give an accurate picture of what goes on. However, Cousins is 6th in time to throw this year, and was 12th against the Titans. So I guess I dont get why you're trying to use that stat because it's actually working against what you're trying to say. You're digging at this point man.
You can see him look for the ball. It really doesn't matter what route he's running. He's open and our QB did not throw it for God knows what reason. Unless you're trying to contest that he's not open.
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by Mothman » Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:01 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:12 am
You aren't understand it... It's a 3 yard drop back from the gun. The ball has to be out quick. He is late with the throw. Get the ball out.
I disagree. He gets to the top of his drop and can't even plant properly to throw because the line has collapsed and the pressure is on him. As you described it: "On a 3 steps drop from the gun, the ball needs to come out at the top of the steps. 3 step.. a gather step and ball out."

There's no time for a gather step. The pass rush has already reached him. That play is an example of terrible pass protection. Bradbury was blown off his feet and he had no help.
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by Mothman » Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:06 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:26 pm
You can see him look for the ball. It really doesn't matter what route he's running. He's open and our QB did not throw it for God knows what reason. Unless you're trying to contest that he's not open.
It's impossible to tell if he's open because we can't see what's happening offscreen. Is he running into coverage? It looks like Cousins might have pulled up on the throw for that reason. Without the "all 22" film, there's no way to know.
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by Mothman » Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:11 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:13 pm
I'm not going to lie, this is hilarious. You've been talking like you're a QB coach and explaining how quick the ball should be out on a 3 step drop out of the gun right? Was Brees not in the gun right there? Did Brees double clutch and fail to throw the ball right away? Because you said THIS about Cousins on his 10 yard scramble.....
It's a 3 yard drop back from the gun. The ball has to be out quick. He is late with the throw. Get the ball out.
That was the other play, the failed dump-off pass to Cook. The scramble was the play involving the non-throw to Rudolph.
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by Mothman » Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:15 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:25 pm
You didn't address my point. You just started talking about something else. Hair is pressure with a team rushing 3 and the quarterback fixes the issue that the o-line created.
Brees had a pocket in which to maneuver on that play. On the Cousins play in question, the pressure came directly up the middle, from above center, collapsing the pocket and leaving nowhere to step up. That said, Cousins might have chosen to roll away from the pressure rather than standing in place and trying to get rid of the ball. As i said above, the pass protection was terrible. However, there was an escape route to the right.

In the end, the reality of the situation is clear: the interior of the OL is lousy and Cousins is an overpaid, middle-of-the-pack QB whose shortcomings make a him a poor fit behind this line. There's plenty of blame to go around.
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by YikesVikes » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:06 pm

Mothman wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:06 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:26 pm
You can see him look for the ball. It really doesn't matter what route he's running. He's open and our QB did not throw it for God knows what reason. Unless you're trying to contest that he's not open.
It's impossible to tell if he's open because we can't see what's happening offscreen. Is he running into coverage? It looks like Cousins might have pulled up on the throw for that reason. Without the "all 22" film, there's no way to know.
Its simple math.
Blitz guys on the line of Scrimmage that leaves 3 DBs in coverage.
2 corners playing 10 yards off
1 high safety that is 13 yards off.

At the snap of the ball the Safety bails and the LBs take a false step forward thinking it is run. There is no-one on Kyle. He turns and is open. Ball is suppose to be out already. Cousins sees it and pumpfakes. Play is broken.
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by YikesVikes » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:09 pm

Mothman wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:15 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:25 pm
You didn't address my point. You just started talking about something else. Hair is pressure with a team rushing 3 and the quarterback fixes the issue that the o-line created.
Brees had a pocket in which to maneuver on that play. On the Cousins play in question, the pressure came directly up the middle, from above center, collapsing the pocket and leaving nowhere to step up. That said, Cousins might have chosen to roll away from the pressure rather than standing in place and trying to get rid of the ball. As i said above, the pass protection was terrible. However, there was an escape route to the right.

In the end, the reality of the situation is clear: the interior of the OL is lousy and Cousins is an overpaid, middle-of-the-pack QB whose shortcomings make him a poor fit behind this line. There's plenty of blame to go around.
You hit the nail on the head. There is an escape route that he failes to recongnize or use. He lacks an elite feel for the pocket and thats why he fails to help his teammates out too often in these situations. Dalvin might not have a hole playside because the online failed to nail a key block but his abilities allows him to cutback and still gain yards. Our QB does not have the ability to consistently make up for other's mistakes.
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by Mothman » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:16 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:06 pm
Mothman wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:06 pm


It's impossible to tell if he's open because we can't see what's happening offscreen. Is he running into coverage? It looks like Cousins might have pulled up on the throw for that reason. Without the "all 22" film, there's no way to know.
Its simple math.
Blitz guys on the line of Scrimmage that leaves 3 DBs in coverage.
2 corners playing 10 yards off
1 high safety that is 13 yards off.

At the snap of the ball the Safety bails and the LBs take a false step forward thinking it is run. There is no-one on Kyle. He turns and is open. Ball is suppose to be out already. Cousins sees it and pumpfakes. Play is broken.
It seems the ball would only be out already if the play was designed to go to Rudolph as the first read. How can we tell if that was the case?

There's nobody on Kyle when he's on-screen and we see the safety bail at the outset but we can't see where he goes or where the receiver and corner at bottom end up. The safety appears to be moving away from Rudolph which supports your argument but again, we can't see what he actually does after he exits our view. The announcer says Cousins had "nowhere to go". What was he seeing? Cousins appears to either be looking at Rudolph or the receiver at bottom of screen. Why does he pull up on the throw? Did he see something? I understand the assumption you're making and you may be right but without a view that shows us what's happening upfield, I don't see how we can know with certainty.
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by Mothman » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:17 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:09 pm
You hit the nail on the head. There is an escape route that he failes to recongnize or use. He lacks an elite feel for the pocket and thats why he fails to help his teammates out too often in these situations. Dalvin might not have a hole playside because the online failed to nail a key block but his abilities allows him to cutback and still gain yards. Our QB does not have the ability to consistently make up for other's mistakes.
I agree, which is why he's overpaid and it was foolish to give him an extension. He's only a long term solution at QB if the long term goal is mediocrity.
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by S197 » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:18 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:35 pm
Boon wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:02 pm
Cook ran for a buck 80. I know run blocking and pass blocking are two separate things but go back and watch the first three games. At least 75% of the pressures are either this clown going into blocks or just not side stepping. He senses pressure thats not there and literally has no idea how to use his blockers. Hes wearing cement cleats. Our oline is decent. The fact that they extended him another two years is mind boggling.

So can the wilfs just cut him and flat out buy out his contract?
I’m sorry but what in gods name is good about that interior OL? Samia I had hope for but he is disgustingly bad. Bradburys pass blocking is atrocious. And Dakota Dozier has been nothing but a spot starter his entire career and is also not good. It baffles me that anyone could possibly say this OL is “decent”. Yeah Reiff has played better this year (but I’m sure he’ll have his dud games sooner than later and O’Neill is good). But when you have ZERO interior guys that can pass block, yes ZERO what do you think that possibly does to a QB. That often limits stepping up into pockets, passing from under center, etc.

Cousins has had his ups and downs for sure, but he led this offense to 30 points and we lost. That’s a good day no matter how you look at it in terms of offensive production. But when there’s 1:44 on the clock and our interior OL can’t even stop a 3 man rush, that’s a HUGE problem.

And on top of that, in 3 games our defense is giving up 34 PPG. That’s worse than any team in the entire NFL last year and the only defense worse this year is Atlanta. That is a HUGE problem.

Cousins has actually made quite a few plays with his legs this year. More than normal that’s for sure. Thielens TD today is just another example. Like Cousins makes his mistakes no doubt but my god he can’t be a miracle worker when his interior OL couldnt pass block for Michael Vick and defense is giving up 34 points a game.

https://twitter.com/seanbormannfl/stat ... 78503?s=10

Like what in gods name is cousins suppose to do here??? No less this was far from the only time this happened all game. Simmons destroyed the interior. Just like Buckner did the week before. Like we don’t even have an average pass blocker in the middle. It is complete trash. And when the opposing team has a dominant DT (see the SF playoff game) or practically any game this year, we are beyond screwed. Unless we run quick passes all game and nickel and dime, the pocket will not be there very often on these deeper routes. And in turn, cousins will have zero pocket to step into when the routes do develop.

This is EXACTLY why I said last year they ran so much play action because of this EXACT reason. To get cousins away from the 3 garbage cans in the middle. Kubiak seems to do this way less than Stefanski did.

I complained about the same damn thing last year at this time of year. Taking 7 step drops from under center does not work with this interior. And last years interior was better with Kline than it is Samia and Stefanski still noticed it. Stefanski figured it out and went heavy play action from week 5 (giants game) and beyond. Unfortunately we have 0 wins and it’s probably too late by the time kubiak opens his eyes.

And FWIW, our interior PFF grades right now are 56, 55, 35. Our tackles are 73 and 80. This just further proves my point. And if it wasn’t for the interiors run blocking, their grade may very well be single digits

But bottom line, this OL is not “decent”. The tackles are, but the interior is easily the worst in the nfl right now, especially when it comes to pass blocking
I guess my question then is how do we fix things? Obviously the defense has degraded significantly and Zimmer is a defensive coach, so do you prefer we move on or he gets a pass because of all the young guys? Likewise, if all Spielman can draft is garbage cans, do you think he should be let go or does he get a pass for finding some draft talent elsewhere?
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by fiestavike » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:20 pm

Missed this game, which sounds like it was a good move. Cousins is so goofy and boring that my expectations are terribly low unless circumstances are perfect. In a season like this one, he inspires zero hope.
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