Titanic failure game thread

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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by StumpHunter » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:27 pm

TSonn wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:00 pm
I actually think Rick has been a pretty great GM who has been negatively motivated by Zimmer and his meddling for high draft pick defensive players (mostly DBs).

I think about it like this - our head coach is supposed to be some defensive guru, right? If our HC specializes in defense, shouldn't he be able to put together a damn good defense with middle round talent? I'm not sure who has made the final call on these picks but just look at how much draft capital we put in the defense since Zimmer got here:

Rhodes, Floyd, Barr, Kendricks, Waynes, Hughes, Alexander, Crichton, Hunter, Gladney, Danztler - all top 3 round picks, with the bolded guys getting picked in the first round. I mean, c'mon - add in Harrison Smith and Everson Griffen who were already here and ANY coach would get good production out of all that talent.

It would make way more sense to load up the other side of the ball with top talent since our head coach doesn't have an offensive mind. His defensive scheme and playcalling should be able to make up for a lack of top tier talent some years and he should be able to coach up guys picked later in the draft.

I just wonder how many of those top picks were supposed to be OL and Zimmer made a call to grab a DB.
Let's see if there really is an issue with over drafting defense over offense.

In the first 3 rounds the Vikings have selected 10 offensive players and 10 defensive players.

In round 1 they have select 4 offensive players and 4 defensive players, and actually considering we gave up a first for Bradford, it is really 5 offensive players to 4 defensive.

Pretty balanced. The Vikings have had a lot more luck drafting defensive players in those rounds, with only 1 real bust in Crighton out of the 10. On offense they have wasted a 1st on Treadwell, a 3rd on Elflein, and gotten nothing for their 2nd on Smith Jr, so maybe that is why you think there is an imbalance?

I mean, we just spent our top 4 picks in the 2019 draft on offense, and it isn't all Zimmer's fault only one of those players is contributing as a starter (I don't consider what Samia is doing as contributing).

In the end it is a pretty odd to blame the HC and not the GM for the lack of talent on the team while simultaneously giving Rick credit for the talented rosters we have had in the past.

I think if you looked at the roster we fielded today at the end of 2019, you would think the team was tanking and would have had no chance to beat the Titans. Instead the HC managed to get these guys fired up and ready to go for a game they had no business even being in.
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by TSonn » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:07 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:27 pm
TSonn wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:00 pm
I actually think Rick has been a pretty great GM who has been negatively motivated by Zimmer and his meddling for high draft pick defensive players (mostly DBs).

I think about it like this - our head coach is supposed to be some defensive guru, right? If our HC specializes in defense, shouldn't he be able to put together a damn good defense with middle round talent? I'm not sure who has made the final call on these picks but just look at how much draft capital we put in the defense since Zimmer got here:

Rhodes, Floyd, Barr, Kendricks, Waynes, Hughes, Alexander, Crichton, Hunter, Gladney, Danztler - all top 3 round picks, with the bolded guys getting picked in the first round. I mean, c'mon - add in Harrison Smith and Everson Griffen who were already here and ANY coach would get good production out of all that talent.

It would make way more sense to load up the other side of the ball with top talent since our head coach doesn't have an offensive mind. His defensive scheme and playcalling should be able to make up for a lack of top tier talent some years and he should be able to coach up guys picked later in the draft.

I just wonder how many of those top picks were supposed to be OL and Zimmer made a call to grab a DB.
Let's see if there really is an issue with over drafting defense over offense.

In the first 3 rounds the Vikings have selected 10 offensive players and 10 defensive players.

In round 1 they have select 4 offensive players and 4 defensive players, and actually considering we gave up a first for Bradford, it is really 5 offensive players to 4 defensive.

Pretty balanced. The Vikings have had a lot more luck drafting defensive players in those rounds, with only 1 real bust in Crighton out of the 10. On offense they have wasted a 1st on Treadwell, a 3rd on Elflein, and gotten nothing for their 2nd on Smith Jr, so maybe that is why you think there is an imbalance?

I mean, we just spent our top 4 picks in the 2019 draft on offense, and it isn't all Zimmer's fault only one of those players is contributing as a starter (I don't consider what Samia is doing as contributing).

In the end it is a pretty odd to blame the HC and not the GM for the lack of talent on the team while simultaneously giving Rick credit for the talented rosters we have had in the past.

I think if you looked at the roster we fielded today at the end of 2019, you would think the team was tanking and would have had no chance to beat the Titans. Instead the HC managed to get these guys fired up and ready to go for a game they had no business even being in.
Thanks for the response. I was including the 2013 draft with Rhodes and Floyd but they were the last guys drafted from the Frazier era. So that's where the imbalance came from.

I guess in general the drafting has been more balanced than it feels. I think that's mostly due to the fact that when we've had a high first round pick we've gone defense (Barr, Waynes) and sometimes we've traded back into the late first round to grab an offensive guy (Patterson 2013, and Teddy).

Your last statement makes it seem like you're still a Zim guy - how do you think an offensive-minded coach would've done over the last 5 years with a defense anchored by Smith, Hunter, Griffen, Waynes, Rhodes, Barr, Kendricks and Linval? How much worse would our defense be with someone like Nagy or Shanahan as HC while also implementing a 21st century offensive scheme?
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by Mothman » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:12 pm

TSonn wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:01 pm
Fair enough - maybe I give Rick too much credit for finding Thielen and Diggs - but his lack of building an OL and finding a competent QB when it's the most important position probably negates any late round talent he's found.
I think all of the above just shows what a "mixed bag" he's been as a GM. He certainly deserves credit for some of the good picks he's made. You named two of them and players like Everson Griffen and John Sullivan were terrific mid-to-late round finds. I think his main shortcoming lies more in team-building than finding talent in the draft.
In terms of Zim - it's always baffled me how much draft stock we put into the defense to only have a great defense for 1 year (2017) which was absolutely destroyed when we actually needed them (at CAR, at PHI).

If there are any Zim supporters left... do you think an offensive-minded coach (let's say someone like Matt Nagy, Kyle Shanahan or Sean McVay - all guys who've been available since we got Zim) would've been able to get similar production out of a defense anchored by Smith, Rhodes, Barr, Kendricks, Waynes, Griffen, and Linval?
As long as he hired a good defensive coordinator, I don't see why not.
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by YikesVikes » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:22 pm

Boon wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:02 pm
Cook ran for a buck 80. I know run blocking and pass blocking are two separate things but go back and watch the first three games. At least 75% of the pressures are either this clown going into blocks or just not side stepping. He senses pressure thats not there and literally has no idea how to use his blockers. Hes wearing cement cleats. Our oline is decent. The fact that they extended him another two years is mind boggling.

So can the wilfs just cut him and flat out buy out his contract?
Thank you someone else sees it. The guy don't know how to side step or get outside the pocket. He sits there going thru progressions and then get sacked.
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by StumpHunter » Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:14 pm

TSonn wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:07 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:27 pm


Let's see if there really is an issue with over drafting defense over offense.

In the first 3 rounds the Vikings have selected 10 offensive players and 10 defensive players.

In round 1 they have select 4 offensive players and 4 defensive players, and actually considering we gave up a first for Bradford, it is really 5 offensive players to 4 defensive.

Pretty balanced. The Vikings have had a lot more luck drafting defensive players in those rounds, with only 1 real bust in Crighton out of the 10. On offense they have wasted a 1st on Treadwell, a 3rd on Elflein, and gotten nothing for their 2nd on Smith Jr, so maybe that is why you think there is an imbalance?

I mean, we just spent our top 4 picks in the 2019 draft on offense, and it isn't all Zimmer's fault only one of those players is contributing as a starter (I don't consider what Samia is doing as contributing).

In the end it is a pretty odd to blame the HC and not the GM for the lack of talent on the team while simultaneously giving Rick credit for the talented rosters we have had in the past.

I think if you looked at the roster we fielded today at the end of 2019, you would think the team was tanking and would have had no chance to beat the Titans. Instead the HC managed to get these guys fired up and ready to go for a game they had no business even being in.
Thanks for the response. I was including the 2013 draft with Rhodes and Floyd but they were the last guys drafted from the Frazier era. So that's where the imbalance came from.

I guess in general the drafting has been more balanced than it feels. I think that's mostly due to the fact that when we've had a high first round pick we've gone defense (Barr, Waynes) and sometimes we've traded back into the late first round to grab an offensive guy (Patterson 2013, and Teddy).

Your last statement makes it seem like you're still a Zim guy - how do you think an offensive-minded coach would've done over the last 5 years with a defense anchored by Smith, Hunter, Griffen, Waynes, Rhodes, Barr, Kendricks and Linval? How much worse would our defense be with someone like Nagy or Shanahan as HC while also implementing a 21st century offensive scheme?
As Mothman said, with a great DC they could have.

The results would have been no better or worse with those coaches and Rick though, regardless of the DC. All of those coaches had their success with elite Olines, something they wouldn't have had here. Sorry outside of Nagy who hasn't really had any success at all.

Remember that 2 of The OCs under Zimmer have gotten HCing jobs based on what they did here and Kubiak and Stefanski ran pretty much the offense Shannahan runs in SF. It hasn't really been the scheme that has stopped the Vikings but the talent.
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:35 pm

Boon wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:02 pm
Cook ran for a buck 80. I know run blocking and pass blocking are two separate things but go back and watch the first three games. At least 75% of the pressures are either this clown going into blocks or just not side stepping. He senses pressure thats not there and literally has no idea how to use his blockers. Hes wearing cement cleats. Our oline is decent. The fact that they extended him another two years is mind boggling.

So can the wilfs just cut him and flat out buy out his contract?
I’m sorry but what in gods name is good about that interior OL? Samia I had hope for but he is disgustingly bad. Bradburys pass blocking is atrocious. And Dakota Dozier has been nothing but a spot starter his entire career and is also not good. It baffles me that anyone could possibly say this OL is “decent”. Yeah Reiff has played better this year (but I’m sure he’ll have his dud games sooner than later and O’Neill is good). But when you have ZERO interior guys that can pass block, yes ZERO what do you think that possibly does to a QB. That often limits stepping up into pockets, passing from under center, etc.

Cousins has had his ups and downs for sure, but he led this offense to 30 points and we lost. That’s a good day no matter how you look at it in terms of offensive production. But when there’s 1:44 on the clock and our interior OL can’t even stop a 3 man rush, that’s a HUGE problem.

And on top of that, in 3 games our defense is giving up 34 PPG. That’s worse than any team in the entire NFL last year and the only defense worse this year is Atlanta. That is a HUGE problem.

Cousins has actually made quite a few plays with his legs this year. More than normal that’s for sure. Thielens TD today is just another example. Like Cousins makes his mistakes no doubt but my god he can’t be a miracle worker when his interior OL couldnt pass block for Michael Vick and defense is giving up 34 points a game.

https://twitter.com/seanbormannfl/stat ... 78503?s=10

Like what in gods name is cousins suppose to do here??? No less this was far from the only time this happened all game. Simmons destroyed the interior. Just like Buckner did the week before. Like we don’t even have an average pass blocker in the middle. It is complete trash. And when the opposing team has a dominant DT (see the SF playoff game) or practically any game this year, we are beyond screwed. Unless we run quick passes all game and nickel and dime, the pocket will not be there very often on these deeper routes. And in turn, cousins will have zero pocket to step into when the routes do develop.

This is EXACTLY why I said last year they ran so much play action because of this EXACT reason. To get cousins away from the 3 garbage cans in the middle. Kubiak seems to do this way less than Stefanski did.

I complained about the same damn thing last year at this time of year. Taking 7 step drops from under center does not work with this interior. And last years interior was better with Kline than it is Samia and Stefanski still noticed it. Stefanski figured it out and went heavy play action from week 5 (giants game) and beyond. Unfortunately we have 0 wins and it’s probably too late by the time kubiak opens his eyes.

And FWIW, our interior PFF grades right now are 56, 55, 35. Our tackles are 73 and 80. This just further proves my point. And if it wasn’t for the interiors run blocking, their grade may very well be single digits

But bottom line, this OL is not “decent”. The tackles are, but the interior is easily the worst in the nfl right now, especially when it comes to pass blocking
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by YikesVikes » Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:50 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:35 pm
Boon wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:02 pm
Cook ran for a buck 80. I know run blocking and pass blocking are two separate things but go back and watch the first three games. At least 75% of the pressures are either this clown going into blocks or just not side stepping. He senses pressure thats not there and literally has no idea how to use his blockers. Hes wearing cement cleats. Our oline is decent. The fact that they extended him another two years is mind boggling.

So can the wilfs just cut him and flat out buy out his contract?
I’m sorry but what in gods name is good about that interior OL? Samia I had hope for but he is disgustingly bad. Bradburys pass blocking is atrocious. And Dakota Dozier has been nothing but a spot starter his entire career and is also not good. It baffles me that anyone could possibly say this OL is “decent”. Yeah Reiff has played better this year (but I’m sure he’ll have his dud games sooner than later and O’Neill is good). But when you have ZERO interior guys that can pass block, yes ZERO what do you think that possibly does to a QB. That often limits stepping up into pockets, passing from under center, etc.

Cousins has had his ups and downs for sure, but he led this offense to 30 points and we lost. That’s a good day no matter how you look at it in terms of offensive production. But when there’s 1:44 on the clock and our interior OL can’t even stop a 3 man rush, that’s a HUGE problem.

And on top of that, in 3 games our defense is giving up 34 PPG. That’s worse than any team in the entire NFL last year and the only defense worse this year is Atlanta. That is a HUGE problem.

Cousins has actually made quite a few plays with his legs this year. More than normal that’s for sure. Thielens TD today is just another example. Like Cousins makes his mistakes no doubt but my god he can’t be a miracle worker when his interior OL couldnt pass block for Michael Vick and defense is giving up 34 points a game.

https://twitter.com/seanbormannfl/stat ... 78503?s=10
To answer you question...
On a 3 steps drop from the gun, the ball needs to come out at the top of the steps. 3 step.. a gather step and ball out. Cousins does not, his throw to the RB is late based on the steps. Look how long Cook is waiting for the ball. This is a simple angle route The ball should be out before the RB crosses the guard unless covered by a LB sitting in the zone. Atleast thats how it was taught when I played. He further compounds it by not moving left our right to help his OL out. Bradbury absolutely gets killed and one of the guards should have been helping chip... However, fundamentally, Kirk could have helped them out.

He could have seen the pressure coming from up the middle and rolled right. How come plays like these often turn positive for the Packers and teams with excellent QBs. Why is it when Rodgers gets pressure up the middle like this, he steps to the left or right and fires a dart. Why is our QB trying to step into the pressure to deliver a 5 yard pass. I guess these things are too much for us to ask Cousins to do. As a result, we need a new QB because the past 15 years of this team OL has been an issue.
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by YikesVikes » Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:01 am

Lets talk about this play.
https://twitter.com/SeanBormanNFL/statu ... 7515615233

Play action, They blitz and the oline picks it up. Due to the play action the LBs a frozen. TE is running free early in the route. Ball isnt thrown. Why? Simple math. 5 rushers, 2 LB beaten due to the PA. High safety is 10 yards off the LOS. QB should be throwing a rope to the TE who appears to be sitting down. He instead pump fakes and takes off. I dont hate the decision to take of but I hate that he missed the read. Good QBs make defenses play for blitzing and misreading run vs. pass plays.
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by 808vikingsfan » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:46 am

YikesVikes wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:22 pm
Boon wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:02 pm
Cook ran for a buck 80. I know run blocking and pass blocking are two separate things but go back and watch the first three games. At least 75% of the pressures are either this clown going into blocks or just not side stepping. He senses pressure thats not there and literally has no idea how to use his blockers. Hes wearing cement cleats. Our oline is decent. The fact that they extended him another two years is mind boggling.

So can the wilfs just cut him and flat out buy out his contract?
Thank you someone else sees it. The guy don't know how to side step or get outside the pocket. He sits there going thru progressions and then get sacked.
Besides his inability to feel or maneuver in the pocket, he takes forever to make decisions. He has no instincts and he chokes when the Vikings need him the most. He can throw a nice ball, but he's not a good NFL QB.
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:39 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:35 pm
Boon wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:02 pm
Cook ran for a buck 80. I know run blocking and pass blocking are two separate things but go back and watch the first three games. At least 75% of the pressures are either this clown going into blocks or just not side stepping. He senses pressure thats not there and literally has no idea how to use his blockers. Hes wearing cement cleats. Our oline is decent. The fact that they extended him another two years is mind boggling.

So can the wilfs just cut him and flat out buy out his contract?
I’m sorry but what in gods name is good about that interior OL? Samia I had hope for but he is disgustingly bad. Bradburys pass blocking is atrocious. And Dakota Dozier has been nothing but a spot starter his entire career and is also not good. It baffles me that anyone could possibly say this OL is “decent”. Yeah Reiff has played better this year (but I’m sure he’ll have his dud games sooner than later and O’Neill is good). But when you have ZERO interior guys that can pass block, yes ZERO what do you think that possibly does to a QB. That often limits stepping up into pockets, passing from under center, etc.

Cousins has had his ups and downs for sure, but he led this offense to 30 points and we lost. That’s a good day no matter how you look at it in terms of offensive production. But when there’s 1:44 on the clock and our interior OL can’t even stop a 3 man rush, that’s a HUGE problem.

And on top of that, in 3 games our defense is giving up 34 PPG. That’s worse than any team in the entire NFL last year and the only defense worse this year is Atlanta. That is a HUGE problem.

Cousins has actually made quite a few plays with his legs this year. More than normal that’s for sure. Thielens TD today is just another example. Like Cousins makes his mistakes no doubt but my god he can’t be a miracle worker when his interior OL couldnt pass block for Michael Vick and defense is giving up 34 points a game.

https://twitter.com/seanbormannfl/stat ... 78503?s=10

Like what in gods name is cousins suppose to do here??? No less this was far from the only time this happened all game. Simmons destroyed the interior. Just like Buckner did the week before. Like we don’t even have an average pass blocker in the middle. It is complete trash. And when the opposing team has a dominant DT (see the SF playoff game) or practically any game this year, we are beyond screwed. Unless we run quick passes all game and nickel and dime, the pocket will not be there very often on these deeper routes. And in turn, cousins will have zero pocket to step into when the routes do develop.

This is EXACTLY why I said last year they ran so much play action because of this EXACT reason. To get cousins away from the 3 garbage cans in the middle. Kubiak seems to do this way less than Stefanski did.

I complained about the same damn thing last year at this time of year. Taking 7 step drops from under center does not work with this interior. And last years interior was better with Kline than it is Samia and Stefanski still noticed it. Stefanski figured it out and went heavy play action from week 5 (giants game) and beyond. Unfortunately we have 0 wins and it’s probably too late by the time kubiak opens his eyes.

And FWIW, our interior PFF grades right now are 56, 55, 35. Our tackles are 73 and 80. This just further proves my point. And if it wasn’t for the interiors run blocking, their grade may very well be single digits

But bottom line, this OL is not “decent”. The tackles are, but the interior is easily the worst in the nfl right now, especially when it comes to pass blocking
Bradbury hadn't given up a pressure until this game, Dozier had given up 3 pressures and 1 sack, the exact same as O'Neil. Not sure about week 3 yet, but I will update when I get that number.

Pressure hasn't been the problem in week 1 and 2. Cousins had a 59.7 passer rating when kept clean with 4 picks to 2 TDs through two games. Cousins was the problem more than the Oline in those games.

Honestly, it wasn't really a problem this week until the last drive (the offense actually put up a lot of points so it must have been doing something right for at least part of the game) and I think Cook being a non-factor on that drive was probably the biggest reason for that. The DLine was able to pin their ears back and go after the QB without having to worry about the RB killing them.

Not a loss we can pin on Cousins, but only because that pick six was called back. That stands and the game would have been over at that point.
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:49 am

YikesVikes wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:50 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:35 pm


I’m sorry but what in gods name is good about that interior OL? Samia I had hope for but he is disgustingly bad. Bradburys pass blocking is atrocious. And Dakota Dozier has been nothing but a spot starter his entire career and is also not good. It baffles me that anyone could possibly say this OL is “decent”. Yeah Reiff has played better this year (but I’m sure he’ll have his dud games sooner than later and O’Neill is good). But when you have ZERO interior guys that can pass block, yes ZERO what do you think that possibly does to a QB. That often limits stepping up into pockets, passing from under center, etc.

Cousins has had his ups and downs for sure, but he led this offense to 30 points and we lost. That’s a good day no matter how you look at it in terms of offensive production. But when there’s 1:44 on the clock and our interior OL can’t even stop a 3 man rush, that’s a HUGE problem.

And on top of that, in 3 games our defense is giving up 34 PPG. That’s worse than any team in the entire NFL last year and the only defense worse this year is Atlanta. That is a HUGE problem.

Cousins has actually made quite a few plays with his legs this year. More than normal that’s for sure. Thielens TD today is just another example. Like Cousins makes his mistakes no doubt but my god he can’t be a miracle worker when his interior OL couldnt pass block for Michael Vick and defense is giving up 34 points a game.

https://twitter.com/seanbormannfl/stat ... 78503?s=10
To answer you question...
On a 3 steps drop from the gun, the ball needs to come out at the top of the steps. 3 step.. a gather step and ball out. Cousins does not, his throw to the RB is late based on the steps. Look how long Cook is waiting for the ball. This is a simple angle route The ball should be out before the RB crosses the guard unless covered by a LB sitting in the zone. Atleast thats how it was taught when I played. He further compounds it by not moving left our right to help his OL out. Bradbury absolutely gets killed and one of the guards should have been helping chip... However, fundamentally, Kirk could have helped them out.

He could have seen the pressure coming from up the middle and rolled right. How come plays like these often turn positive for the Packers and teams with excellent QBs. Why is it when Rodgers gets pressure up the middle like this, he steps to the left or right and fires a dart. Why is our QB trying to step into the pressure to deliver a 5 yard pass. I guess these things are too much for us to ask Cousins to do. As a result, we need a new QB because the past 15 years of this team OL has been an issue.
If you're watching that play and the main thing you try and pick apart is Cousins mechanics, I really dont know what to tell you. You're literally nitpicking just to try and prove a point when the real problem is right in front of your face.

As for Cousins, he's not Russell Wilson, or Rodgers for that matter. He's been a pocket QB his entire career. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Philip Rivers, Cousins, etc. get destroyed in that situation because they are pocket passers that dont scramble. I mean the thing is, it's not like Cousins held it too long and caused the pressure himself. He didnt even have a damn chance on that play. And where the Vikings failed was not giving him an interior that can create a good pocket for him. They are all athletes that can get downfield in the run game but their strength and overall balance when pass blocking is atrocious. Every single interior player including the guy that didnt even play yesterday, Elflein.
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:03 am

YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:01 am
Lets talk about this play.
https://twitter.com/SeanBormanNFL/statu ... 7515615233

Play action, They blitz and the oline picks it up. Due to the play action the LBs a frozen. TE is running free early in the route. Ball isnt thrown. Why? Simple math. 5 rushers, 2 LB beaten due to the PA. High safety is 10 yards off the LOS. QB should be throwing a rope to the TE who appears to be sitting down. He instead pump fakes and takes off. I dont hate the decision to take of but I hate that he missed the read. Good QBs make defenses play for blitzing and misreading run vs. pass plays.
Again, what? Go watch the play again. Rudy isnt even looking and by the looks of it was running either a seam route or a post over the middle. How can Cousins throw it when his TE isnt even halfway through his route? Do you want him to hit Rudolph in the back of the head? So then what? You can say he panicked under pressure? Literally every pass catcher for the Vikings was out of the screen and you're sitting here saying he missed the read. He made an excellent play, the LBs bailed to cover the deep middle of the field which opens up a running lane.

Again, this is nitpicking through and through. You used a good play he made to try and knock him? No less when every pass catcher was out of the screen and you couldnt even see the rest of the play. You're literally finding plays and trying to dissect them so you can somehow point the finger at him when there are much bigger problems than Kirk Cousins right now
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:31 am

Just saw that the majority of pressure came from ONeil and Samia. 10 pressures from those two, 4 from the rest of the line.

Starting from the left it went 1,2,1,6,4 pressures given up.

Dennison needs to be fired today with 3 straight games seeing the RG being a liability and nothing being done about it.
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YikesVikes
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by YikesVikes » Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:12 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:49 am
YikesVikes wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:50 pm


To answer you question...
On a 3 steps drop from the gun, the ball needs to come out at the top of the steps. 3 step.. a gather step and ball out. Cousins does not, his throw to the RB is late based on the steps. Look how long Cook is waiting for the ball. This is a simple angle route The ball should be out before the RB crosses the guard unless covered by a LB sitting in the zone. Atleast thats how it was taught when I played. He further compounds it by not moving left our right to help his OL out. Bradbury absolutely gets killed and one of the guards should have been helping chip... However, fundamentally, Kirk could have helped them out.

He could have seen the pressure coming from up the middle and rolled right. How come plays like these often turn positive for the Packers and teams with excellent QBs. Why is it when Rodgers gets pressure up the middle like this, he steps to the left or right and fires a dart. Why is our QB trying to step into the pressure to deliver a 5 yard pass. I guess these things are too much for us to ask Cousins to do. As a result, we need a new QB because the past 15 years of this team OL has been an issue.
If you're watching that play and the main thing you try and pick apart is Cousins mechanics, I really dont know what to tell you. You're literally nitpicking just to try and prove a point when the real problem is right in front of your face.

As for Cousins, he's not Russell Wilson, or Rodgers for that matter. He's been a pocket QB his entire career. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Philip Rivers, Cousins, etc. get destroyed in that situation because they are pocket passers that dont scramble. I mean the thing is, it's not like Cousins held it too long and caused the pressure himself. He didnt even have a damn chance on that play. And where the Vikings failed was not giving him an interior that can create a good pocket for him. They are all athletes that can get downfield in the run game but their strength and overall balance when pass blocking is atrocious. Every single interior player including the guy that didnt even play yesterday, Elflein.
You aren't understand it... It's a 3 yard drop back from the gun. The ball has to be out quick. He is late with the throw. Get the ball out.
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Re: Titanic failure game thread

Post by YikesVikes » Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:15 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:03 am
YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:01 am
Lets talk about this play.
https://twitter.com/SeanBormanNFL/statu ... 7515615233

Play action, They blitz and the oline picks it up. Due to the play action the LBs a frozen. TE is running free early in the route. Ball isnt thrown. Why? Simple math. 5 rushers, 2 LB beaten due to the PA. High safety is 10 yards off the LOS. QB should be throwing a rope to the TE who appears to be sitting down. He instead pump fakes and takes off. I dont hate the decision to take of but I hate that he missed the read. Good QBs make defenses play for blitzing and misreading run vs. pass plays.
Again, what? Go watch the play again. Rudy isnt even looking and by the looks of it was running either a seam route or a post over the middle. How can Cousins throw it when his TE isnt even halfway through his route? Do you want him to hit Rudolph in the back of the head? So then what? You can say he panicked under pressure? Literally every pass catcher for the Vikings was out of the screen and you're sitting here saying he missed the read. He made an excellent play, the LBs bailed to cover the deep middle of the field which opens up a running lane.

Again, this is nitpicking through and through. You used a good play he made to try and knock him? No less when every pass catcher was out of the screen and you couldnt even see the rest of the play. You're literally finding plays and trying to dissect them so you can somehow point the finger at him when there are much bigger problems than Kirk Cousins right now
Actually you can see Kyle look back. He's not running a seam, you see him start to settle down before going off screen. The problem is Cousins pumpfakes instead of delivering the ball. He is a cause of much of his pressure and then we blame the online. This is why you see the oline is at fault I see the Cousins is sometimes to blame. He has the longest time to throw in the league. How can you oline be that garbage and you consistently are last in time to throw even when accounting for play action? Easy answer, the QB is holding on to the ball too long.
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