Imagine the possibility (Mr. Lawrence)

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Re: Imagine the possibility (Mr. Lawrence)

Post by Boon » Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:17 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:50 pm
:lol: I was waiting for this dreamer thread to get started by someone
Because trading into the #1 pick is impossible right?
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Re: Imagine the possibility (Mr. Lawrence)

Post by Mothman » Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:26 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:18 pm
You're welcome. In a year like this, we need a little levity.

Also, you must be old enough to get the Wink Martindale/game show host joke. :lol:
I am indeed. :lol:
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Re: Imagine the possibility (Mr. Lawrence)

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:34 am

Boon wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:17 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:50 pm
:lol: I was waiting for this dreamer thread to get started by someone
Because trading into the #1 pick is impossible right?
lol I meannnn, unless you want to give up most of your picks for the next however many years, yeah it is. Especially if we're sitting way back at like 10 or so. If you're the Jets and you have #1 overall, it's going to take A LOT for you to be okay with moving back to 10th overall. All QBs are a gamble in round 1. You're better off looking for the Mahomes, Watson, Jackson type guys that will be there around picks 6-10 than to trade away everything you own for #1 overall.
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Re: Imagine the possibility (Mr. Lawrence)

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:54 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:34 am
Boon wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:17 am


Because trading into the #1 pick is impossible right?
lol I meannnn, unless you want to give up most of your picks for the next however many years, yeah it is. Especially if we're sitting way back at like 10 or so. If you're the Jets and you have #1 overall, it's going to take A LOT for you to be okay with moving back to 10th overall. All QBs are a gamble in round 1. You're better off looking for the Mahomes, Watson, Jackson type guys that will be there around picks 6-10 than to trade away everything you own for #1 overall.
Trading from #10 would be tough.

If the Bengals are at #1 and we are at #5, I think it is doable. LA and Philly both traded up to get their QBs and were in SBs a couple of years later. Even when Washington did it for RG3 they still ended up in the playoffs that year. It doesn't seem like giving up a lot to get your QB hurts your team all that much, even if that QB doesn't really work out.
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Re: Imagine the possibility (Mr. Lawrence)

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:34 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:34 am
Boon wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:17 am


Because trading into the #1 pick is impossible right?
lol I meannnn, unless you want to give up most of your picks for the next however many years, yeah it is. Especially if we're sitting way back at like 10 or so. If you're the Jets and you have #1 overall, it's going to take A LOT for you to be okay with moving back to 10th overall. All QBs are a gamble in round 1. You're better off looking for the Mahomes, Watson, Jackson type guys that will be there around picks 6-10 than to trade away everything you own for #1 overall.
PHP, you're assuming we're going to be as low as 10. I think it's time we all wake up to the reality of the situation. We stink.

I know it's only Week 4 coming up, but we're hemorrhaging points and yards uncontrollably. This team is supposed to be built on ball control, but we're averaging 15 MINUTES less TOP per game! Our turnover margin is -5. Only the Falcons have given up more points. We're losing by 9 ppg, and that's WITH a 1-point loss. We just had a 175-yard rusher AND receiver in a game for the first time in NFL history ... and we LOST. Go up a couple of posts and look at my game-by-game predictions. A lot of that post is meant to be funny (and if I do say so myself, it's damn funny) but my predicted outcomes of our remaining games are no laughing matter. Go ahead. Make a convincing argument that we won't be 3-13 or worse. But be forewarned ... right now, based on what I've seen, I'm not buying it.

If this team doesn't play better, especially on defense, we'll be top 3 at least. At that point, drafting Lawrence first overall is a distinct possibility.
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Re: Imagine the possibility (Mr. Lawrence)

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:57 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:34 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:34 am


lol I meannnn, unless you want to give up most of your picks for the next however many years, yeah it is. Especially if we're sitting way back at like 10 or so. If you're the Jets and you have #1 overall, it's going to take A LOT for you to be okay with moving back to 10th overall. All QBs are a gamble in round 1. You're better off looking for the Mahomes, Watson, Jackson type guys that will be there around picks 6-10 than to trade away everything you own for #1 overall.
PHP, you're assuming we're going to be as low as 10. I think it's time we all wake up to the reality of the situation. We stink.

I know it's only Week 4 coming up, but we're hemorrhaging points and yards uncontrollably. This team is supposed to be built on ball control, but we're averaging 15 MINUTES less TOP per game! Our turnover margin is -5. Only the Falcons have given up more points. We're losing by 9 ppg, and that's WITH a 1-point loss. We just had a 175-yard rusher AND receiver in a game for the first time in NFL history ... and we LOST. Go up a couple of posts and look at my game-by-game predictions. A lot of that post is meant to be funny (and if I do say so myself, it's damn funny) but my predicted outcomes of our remaining games are no laughing matter. Go ahead. Make a convincing argument that we won't be 3-13 or worse. But be forewarned ... right now, based on what I've seen, I'm not buying it.

If this team doesn't play better, especially on defense, we'll be top 3 at least. At that point, drafting Lawrence first overall is a distinct possibility.
Kapp, I get that you're quite frustrated this season and I'm right with you but this team has way too much talent to finish bottom 3. It's just not realistic unless more key players end up getting hurt. By the sounds of it, Hunter will be back which will do nothing but help the situation.

You also have to think, there are teams like the Jets, Dolphins, Jaguars, Redskins, Giants, Broncos, Bengals, Eagles, Falcons, Panthers, Lions, Texans, etc. Out of those 12 teams they combine for 4 wins. Make a convincing argument how the Vikings will finish worse than most or all of these teams? They cant get out of their own way either. They are just as bad as we are right now. Have you watched Philly? Have you seen how bad the Falcons have choked? Did you see the Giants just get beat by 30 when the 49ers had half their roster on IR? Have you seen how little talent is on the Redskins and Jets?

Even when you look at power rankings the Vikings are still falling at 20th out of 32 teams and they are 0-3. Why? How? Because there are so many teams out there right now that are THAT bad.
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Re: Imagine the possibility (Mr. Lawrence)

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:39 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:57 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:34 am

PHP, you're assuming we're going to be as low as 10. I think it's time we all wake up to the reality of the situation. We stink.

I know it's only Week 4 coming up, but we're hemorrhaging points and yards uncontrollably. This team is supposed to be built on ball control, but we're averaging 15 MINUTES less TOP per game! Our turnover margin is -5. Only the Falcons have given up more points. We're losing by 9 ppg, and that's WITH a 1-point loss. We just had a 175-yard rusher AND receiver in a game for the first time in NFL history ... and we LOST. Go up a couple of posts and look at my game-by-game predictions. A lot of that post is meant to be funny (and if I do say so myself, it's damn funny) but my predicted outcomes of our remaining games are no laughing matter. Go ahead. Make a convincing argument that we won't be 3-13 or worse. But be forewarned ... right now, based on what I've seen, I'm not buying it.

If this team doesn't play better, especially on defense, we'll be top 3 at least. At that point, drafting Lawrence first overall is a distinct possibility.
Kapp, I get that you're quite frustrated this season and I'm right with you but this team has way too much talent to finish bottom 3. It's just not realistic unless more key players end up getting hurt. By the sounds of it, Hunter will be back which will do nothing but help the situation.

You also have to think, there are teams like the Jets, Dolphins, Jaguars, Redskins, Giants, Broncos, Bengals, Eagles, Falcons, Panthers, Lions, Texans, etc. Out of those 12 teams they combine for 4 wins. Make a convincing argument how the Vikings will finish worse than most or all of these teams? They cant get out of their own way either. They are just as bad as we are right now. Have you watched Philly? Have you seen how bad the Falcons have choked? Did you see the Giants just get beat by 30 when the 49ers had half their roster on IR? Have you seen how little talent is on the Redskins and Jets?

Even when you look at power rankings the Vikings are still falling at 20th out of 32 teams and they are 0-3. Why? How? Because there are so many teams out there right now that are THAT bad.
Just a note ... it is not a given that Danielle Hunter will be back anytime soon.
#Vikings star DE Danielle Hunter is regaining strength and getting closer to returning from what sources say is a herniated disc in his neck, though he’s unlikely to be ready to play when he’s eligible to come off IR next week. Optimism still high that he’s back this season.
Tom Pelissero via Twitter

So ... his "little tweak" is a herniated disc. Football players don't recover from herniated discs in a short time period. "Optimism is high that he's back THIS SEASON." By the sounds of it, Hunter MIGHT be back.

I actually can make a compelling argument for those teams. I really can. The Dolphins, Jags, Washington Football Team, Panthers, and Lions have already won a game. You are what your record says you are. Therefore, those teams are better than us. That includes the Lions, who probably should be 2-1 right now. The Texans have as good a roster as we do, probably better, and play in a weak division. The Jets actually are terrible, but they play the Dolphins twice. The Bengals have Joe Burrow, who has been outstanding ... they'll fall into a few wins. Philly could give us a run for our money in the Suck Department. The Falcons can score at will ... they'll win at least 6 or 7.

All I'm saying is that you can't just live on our past. Our team is really, really bad right now. Before this week, they didn't even appear to play hard. Worse yet, we stink at all the things Zimmer wants this team to be.

Until we're not, we're among the worst teams in the league.
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Re: Imagine the possibility (Mr. Lawrence)

Post by S197 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:10 pm

I think this year, above all years, is impossible to predict. With the way things are going we may be down to Chisnea at QB running the triple option by week 14.

But it's pretty hard to be top 3 bad, something the Vikings have never been no matter who is on the field or who is coaching. The last time they cleaned house they won I think 5 games and tied 1. That sounds more reasonable to me for this year, somewhere around 5-6 wins and a pick around where they grabbed Anthony Barr.

The one thing that concerns me most is typically even when the Vikings start off poorly, they make decent adjustments at halftime. That really hasn't happened this year. If anything, they're worse after they come out of the locker room. If that continues, then shave off a couple more wins. But again, with COVID, who the heck knows. Anything is possible right now.
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Re: Imagine the possibility (Mr. Lawrence)

Post by S197 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:36 pm

Here's the other problem with Lawrence, Cousins contract and the fact that the Vikings are basically screwed with no outs.

Cousins cap hit is $31M next year, then a ridiculous $45M in 2022. There are some that feel the cap could fall to $175M, that means Cousins alone will account for a QUARTER of the entire teams cap space.

But wait, it gets worse. That last year is early vested. Meaning if he's on the team in March of next year, his entire salary in 2022 is fully guaranteed. So if they draft Lawrence and have him sit a year, in 2022, we're paying a backup Cousins $45 MILLION.

So why not cut him at the end of this year? They could, but it's still a $31 MILLION cap hit next year, oh and another $10 MILLION in 2022. Cousins goes on to play for another team and we're still out $41 million over the next two years for a guy not even on the roster.

They could trade him, but there's still a cap hit of $10M-$20M in EACH of the next two years. And lets be honest, no one is going to take over that contract because there's only one team in the NFL stupid enough to even sign him to a contract like that in the first place.
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Re: Imagine the possibility (Mr. Lawrence)

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:05 pm

S197 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:10 pm
I think this year, above all years, is impossible to predict. With the way things are going we may be down to Chisnea at QB running the triple option by week 14.

But it's pretty hard to be top 3 bad, something the Vikings have never been no matter who is on the field or who is coaching. The last time they cleaned house they won I think 5 games and tied 1. That sounds more reasonable to me for this year, somewhere around 5-6 wins and a pick around where they grabbed Anthony Barr.

The one thing that concerns me most is typically even when the Vikings start off poorly, they make decent adjustments at halftime. That really hasn't happened this year. If anything, they're worse after they come out of the locker room. If that continues, then shave off a couple more wins. But again, with COVID, who the heck knows. Anything is possible right now.
I believe we were top 3 in 2012. I thought we traded down to 4 with the Browns?
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Re: Imagine the possibility (Mr. Lawrence)

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:07 pm

S197 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:36 pm
Here's the other problem with Lawrence, Cousins contract and the fact that the Vikings are basically screwed with no outs.

Cousins cap hit is $31M next year, then a ridiculous $45M in 2022. There are some that feel the cap could fall to $175M, that means Cousins alone will account for a QUARTER of the entire teams cap space.

But wait, it gets worse. That last year is early vested. Meaning if he's on the team in March of next year, his entire salary in 2022 is fully guaranteed. So if they draft Lawrence and have him sit a year, in 2022, we're paying a backup Cousins $45 MILLION.

So why not cut him at the end of this year? They could, but it's still a $31 MILLION cap hit next year, oh and another $10 MILLION in 2022. Cousins goes on to play for another team and we're still out $41 million over the next two years for a guy not even on the roster.

They could trade him, but there's still a cap hit of $10M-$20M in EACH of the next two years. And lets be honest, no one is going to take over that contract because there's only one team in the NFL stupid enough to even sign him to a contract like that in the first place.
So you re saying our cap genius is an idiot
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Re: Imagine the possibility (Mr. Lawrence)

Post by S197 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:08 pm

Yup you're right, I forgot we swapped picks in the Kalil trade.
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Re: Imagine the possibility (Mr. Lawrence)

Post by S197 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:14 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:07 pm
So you re saying our cap genius is an idiot
I don't know if it's Brez's fault, at minimum Cousins agent deserves a mega raise. I think Spielman and Zimmer just had way too much confidence in him despite all the signs that this isn't a $45M guy. Why they didn't give themselves an out and allowed Cousins to double dip (with a triple dip also a high probability) is beyond me. This could easily turn into a NO/Drew Brees type situation where we're paying him years after he's gone.
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Re: Imagine the possibility (Mr. Lawrence)

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:17 pm

S197 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:10 pm
I think this year, above all years, is impossible to predict. With the way things are going we may be down to Chisnea at QB running the triple option by week 14.

But it's pretty hard to be top 3 bad, something the Vikings have never been no matter who is on the field or who is coaching. The last time they cleaned house they won I think 5 games and tied 1. That sounds more reasonable to me for this year, somewhere around 5-6 wins and a pick around where they grabbed Anthony Barr.

The one thing that concerns me most is typically even when the Vikings start off poorly, they make decent adjustments at halftime. That really hasn't happened this year. If anything, they're worse after they come out of the locker room. If that continues, then shave off a couple more wins. But again, with COVID, who the heck knows. Anything is possible right now.
Man dude. Reminding me of the details of Kirk Cousins’ contract has made me feel seriously ill. And I’m cooking burgers on the grill right now.

Ugh.
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Re: Imagine the possibility (Mr. Lawrence)

Post by Mothman » Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:22 pm

S197 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:14 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:07 pm
So you re saying our cap genius is an idiot
I don't know if it's Brez's fault, at minimum Cousins agent deserves a mega raise.
... and Spielman should get canned. It's Brzezinski's job to manage the cap but it's Spielman's show. The Cousins deal is his responsibility.
I think Spielman and Zimmer just had way too much confidence in him despite all the signs that this isn't a $45M guy.
I don't think they know how to gauge when their team is an actual contender and when it's not. That's how we get moves like the Bradford trade and Cousins' deal. They think they're opening a Super Bowl window that wasn't there in the first place (or keeping it open).
Why they didn't give themselves an out and allowed Cousins to double dip (with a triple dip also a high probability) is beyond me. This could easily turn into a NO/Drew Brees type situation where we're paying him years after he's gone.
Which is why the Vikes should can Spielman after this season, hire a new GM, cut Cousins (take the full $41 million hit next year if that's allowed) and look to the future. Just accept the painful consequences and begin rebuilding in earnest (and please, let's not get into the debate about rebuilding means again).
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