Vikings Week 2: Good, Bad, and the Ugly

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Re: Vikings Week 2: Good, Bad, and the Ugly

Post by HardcoreVikesFan » Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:11 pm

The Good: Nada

The Bad: Tackling, covering the flat, run blocking.

The Ugly: Back-to-back safeties, play calling, Cousins, TOP, defensive performance.

Gonna be a long year. Probably going to have at least 10 of these types of threads this year on the board.
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Re: Vikings Week 2: Good, Bad, and the Ugly

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:51 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:43 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:04 pm


https://twitter.com/nfl_dovkleiman/sta ... 26081?s=21

That’s what our QB is dealing with. As our 2nd round pick sits the bench like all these other rookies. But please, defend this OL
You spoke too soon 808.
Cousins averaged just 4.6 yards per attempt and finished the contest with a 15.9 NFL passer rating. And the issue wasn’t tied to protection up front. All three of his interceptions were thrown from a clean pocket, and he worked from a pressured pocket fewer than three times in the game.
Clearly this loss and the lack of offense was all on the oline...
When did I say his play was all on the OL? Just curious? Also, one pick was a Hail Mary before halftime that was meaningless. Another was more on Bisi than anyone. The other was indeed a force by cousins. I’ve only said that 3 times now but keep twisting my words to fit your argument please.
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Re: Vikings Week 2: Good, Bad, and the Ugly

Post by StumpHunter » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:47 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:51 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:43 pm


You spoke too soon 808.



Clearly this loss and the lack of offense was all on the oline...
When did I say his play was all on the OL? Just curious? Also, one pick was a Hail Mary before halftime that was meaningless. Another was more on Bisi than anyone. The other was indeed a force by cousins. I’ve only said that 3 times now but keep twisting my words to fit your argument please.
At a certain point, if you continue to need to deflect blame away from the QB, you are going to end up being upset with the Oline, WRs, HC, GM, RB, defense, fans and ownership. At that point you will be a Kirk Cousins fan and nothing else.
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Re: Vikings Week 2: Good, Bad, and the Ugly

Post by YikesVikes » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:43 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:47 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:51 pm


When did I say his play was all on the OL? Just curious? Also, one pick was a Hail Mary before halftime that was meaningless. Another was more on Bisi than anyone. The other was indeed a force by cousins. I’ve only said that 3 times now but keep twisting my words to fit your argument please.
At a certain point, if you continue to need to deflect blame away from the QB, you are going to end up being upset with the Oline, WRs, HC, GM, RB, defense, fans and ownership. At that point you will be a Kirk Cousins fan and nothing else.
You are waisting your time. Ponder is who he is. He is an eternal optimist (which I admire) and a stanuch Cousins defender. It is never Kirk's fault. This from a guy that was happy to get Kirk, felt he has played amazing some times as well, and will defend him when he is doing his best. However, it is clear that this team is not a contender with Kirk. We can make the playoffs, we can reach a NFCCG if lucky but we do not have what tasks to go all the way. Part of it is because there are too many games like today with Kirk.
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Re: Vikings Week 2: Good, Bad, and the Ugly

Post by PacificNorseWest » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:33 am

I can pick and choose the plays that confirm my own biases, too....not sure how that helps, but makes some feel better, I guess.


That safety Cousins took...terrible all around. Didn't learn, horrible awareness, dug the team deeper...

Why cape for the guy? We all want him to succeed....he just ain't it.

Refer to "pathetic " for the other bullet points...
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Re: Vikings Week 2: Good, Bad, and the Ugly

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:53 am

YikesVikes wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:43 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:47 pm


At a certain point, if you continue to need to deflect blame away from the QB, you are going to end up being upset with the Oline, WRs, HC, GM, RB, defense, fans and ownership. At that point you will be a Kirk Cousins fan and nothing else.
You are waisting your time. Ponder is who he is. He is an eternal optimist (which I admire) and a stanuch Cousins defender. It is never Kirk's fault. This from a guy that was happy to get Kirk, felt he has played amazing some times as well, and will defend him when he is doing his best. However, it is clear that this team is not a contender with Kirk. We can make the playoffs, we can reach a NFCCG if lucky but we do not have what tasks to go all the way. Part of it is because there are too many games like today with Kirk.
I can handle optimism, but defending one player at the expense of the rest of the team isn't optimism.
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Re: Vikings Week 2: Good, Bad, and the Ugly

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:04 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:47 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:51 pm


When did I say his play was all on the OL? Just curious? Also, one pick was a Hail Mary before halftime that was meaningless. Another was more on Bisi than anyone. The other was indeed a force by cousins. I’ve only said that 3 times now but keep twisting my words to fit your argument please.
At a certain point, if you continue to need to deflect blame away from the QB, you are going to end up being upset with the Oline, WRs, HC, GM, RB, defense, fans and ownership. At that point you will be a Kirk Cousins fan and nothing else.
The only one I'm deflecting blame towards is Bisi because that was 110% a catchable ball. Was it behind him? Yeah but not to the point it was uncatchable, especially for an NFL WR.

Outside of that, where am I deflecting blame? Not that Cousins stats looked good by any means but 3 INTs look worse than 2 and I was saying that one of them was meaningless given it was a hail mary pass.

Part of the problem however was that on some of those early drives, some very unfortunate things happened. They were drive killers, effected statistics and effected momentum.

-The ball Cousins put on Rudy's lap where there was a no call was one. I believe that was going to put us around the 50 or more and is a big first down. We get no call for his arm getting pulled back, drive dies out.

-The Irv Smith "push off" was another first down that we lost out on and it put us in a down and distance. Irv stepped on the guys foot which caused him to fall and they called it a push off.

-The Irv Smith drop over the middle. Another big first down that/long completion that we lost out on.

Sure Cousins didnt do his job "recovering" from the refs mistakes and player mistakes like Irv dropping that ball. But at the same time, if that garbage doesnt happen, that another what? 70+ yards of offense, 3 fresh set of downs and 3 instances that changes field position quite a bit (at least two of them). Those are HUGE drive killers. And I can almost bet money that deep throw to Thielen doesnt happen if Irv never dropped that deep pass over the middle.

This also goes back to it being a team problem, not a Cousins problem. But fans have to always deflect blame somewhere and 99% of the time it's to Cousins.

Given that I think it's a team problem, my finger is pointing to Zim and Kubiak. I've said all along, they need to get their best players on the field much more often that they do. Sure, guys will say, well maybe this rookie isnt "ready". Yeah and everyone also said Brian O'Neill wasnt "ready" and he hops in for Rashod hill a few weeks into the season and goes the ENTIRE year without allowing a sack. Yeah pretty sure he was well ready.
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Re: Vikings Week 2: Good, Bad, and the Ugly

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:07 am

YikesVikes wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:43 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:47 pm


At a certain point, if you continue to need to deflect blame away from the QB, you are going to end up being upset with the Oline, WRs, HC, GM, RB, defense, fans and ownership. At that point you will be a Kirk Cousins fan and nothing else.
You are waisting your time. Ponder is who he is. He is an eternal optimist (which I admire) and a stanuch Cousins defender. It is never Kirk's fault. This from a guy that was happy to get Kirk, felt he has played amazing some times as well, and will defend him when he is doing his best. However, it is clear that this team is not a contender with Kirk. We can make the playoffs, we can reach a NFCCG if lucky but we do not have what tasks to go all the way. Part of it is because there are too many games like today with Kirk.
:lol: Again, clearly you nor Stump read my post at all. There are much bigger problems with this TEAM right now than Kirk Cousins.

And I'm not sure how I am defending Cousins other than saying the ball to Bisi was very catchable.
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Re: Vikings Week 2: Good, Bad, and the Ugly

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:08 am

We have our first 4 picks screaming with potential (Jefferson, Gladney, Cleveland, Dantzler) and I feel like they arent playing nearly as much as they should. Granted Dantzler was out this game. But Jefferson practically split with Bisi week 1 and the majority of Jeffersons snaps seem like they came in the 2nd half. This week he played a considerable amount less than Bisi (42-29). Gladney played 12 snaps week 1. Dantzler actually got time. And Cleveland didnt even dress week 1 and didnt play at all week 2, when we lost our starting guard to injury.

If this was a Treadwell situation and Jefferson was drafted in round 1 but had Thielen and Diggs sitting in front of him, sure. I 100% agree that in 2 WR sets, Treadwell should be on the bench. Same goes for the corners if someone like Waynes was still here. Or Cleveland if Joe Berger was in front of him at guard.

But holy hell, we are playing Bisi Johnson over Justin Jefferson. Pat Elflein, Dakota Dozier and Dru Samia over Cleveland. Hell ever Riley Reiff. Mike Hughes and Holton Hill over Jeff Gladney and at times Cameron Dantzler. Hell they even played Mattison 2 entire drives early on over Cook yesterday. Like wtf are we doing? Why even have early draft picks anymore if you're going to have the ride the pine. Look across the league. Lamb is playing 80%+ snaps a game for Dallas. Reagor played nearly all game for Philly this week. Ruggs and Bryan Edwards playing most of the game for the Raiders. And so on....

It's like Zim is scared to get these guys on the field. He seems to blitz very little anymore because he doesnt wanna leave these guys on an island. He's more conservative than he has ever been this year. My patience is wearing thin here. I feel like he has handcuffs on this offense right now and scared to run anything but basic base defenses each week.

I just think even though the guys we let walk were for good reason and were either past their prime (outside of Griff IMO) or going to get overpaid on the open market, it was just too much to overcome with very little offseason and no preseason.

I think Mac Alexander was by far our most underrated loss. But I feel like the problem is, the guys that we "replaced" all of our losses with, are either not playing full time or opted out.

Griffen- full time starter/Ngakoue- averaging 64% of snaps
Diggs- full time starter/Jefferson- averaging under 50% of snaps
Rhodes- full time starter/Gladney- on a rotation with Hill and Hughes
Waynes- full time starter/Dantzler- on a rotation with Hill and Hughes
Elflein (or whoevers spot Cleveland would take)- full time starter/Cleveland- not playing at all
Joseph- full time starter/Pierce- opted out due to COVID

And on top of all that, arguably the best player on this entire roster in Danielle Hunter....is hurt. This is just very frustrating to watch across the board.
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Re: Vikings Week 2: Good, Bad, and the Ugly

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:09 am

PacificNorseWest wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:33 am
I can pick and choose the plays that confirm my own biases, too....not sure how that helps, but makes some feel better, I guess.


That safety Cousins took...terrible all around. Didn't learn, horrible awareness, dug the team deeper...

Why cape for the guy? We all want him to succeed....he just ain't it.

Refer to "pathetic " for the other bullet points...
Didnt defend the safety at all and said he held the ball too long on that one. The safety I did defend was the GB one. Letting a free runner to Kirks blindside on the goal line is not on Cousins. Someone clearly missed their assignment.
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Re: Vikings Week 2: Good, Bad, and the Ugly

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:19 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:04 am
Outside of that, where am I deflecting blame?
It amazes me that you write this, and then go on to deflect blame all over the place. Let's count the deflections:

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:04 am
Not that Cousins stats looked good by any means but 3 INTs look worse than 2 and I was saying that one of them was meaningless given it was a hail mary pass.
Deflection 1. "One of his Ints was meaningless"
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:04 am
Part of the problem however was that on some of those early drives, some very unfortunate things happened. They were drive killers, effected statistics and effected momentum.

-The ball Cousins put on Rudy's lap where there was a no call was one. I believe that was going to put us around the 50 or more and is a big first down. We get no call for his arm getting pulled back, drive dies out.

-The Irv Smith "push off" was another first down that we lost out on and it put us in a down and distance. Irv stepped on the guys foot which caused him to fall and they called it a push off.
Deflection 2. "The refs screwed us"
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:04 am
-The Irv Smith drop over the middle. Another big first down that/long completion that we lost out on.
Deflection 3. "Cousins had to deal with a drop!"
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:04 am
Sure Cousins didnt do his job "recovering" from the refs mistakes and player mistakes like Irv dropping that ball. But at the same time, if that garbage doesnt happen, that another what? 70+ yards of offense, 3 fresh set of downs and 3 instances that changes field position quite a bit (at least two of them). Those are HUGE drive killers. And I can almost bet money that deep throw to Thielen doesnt happen if Irv never dropped that deep pass over the middle.
A paragraph where you summarize your deflections.
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:04 am
This also goes back to it being a team problem, not a Cousins problem. But fans have to always deflect blame somewhere and 99% of the time it's to Cousins.

Given that I think it's a team problem, my finger is pointing to Zim and Kubiak. I've said all along, they need to get their best players on the field much more often that they do. Sure, guys will say, well maybe this rookie isnt "ready". Yeah and everyone also said Brian O'Neill wasnt "ready" and he hops in for Rashod hill a few weeks into the season and goes the ENTIRE year without allowing a sack. Yeah pretty sure he was well ready.
Deflection 4. "The coaching staff isn't playing the right guys."

Do you honestly not see what you are doing here?
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Re: Vikings Week 2: Good, Bad, and the Ugly

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:45 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:19 am

Deflection 1. "One of his Ints was meaningless"
lol ok so if he threw for 400 and 3 TDs and 1 INT and that interception was a hail mary before halftime, would anyone really care? No. Why anyone cares this time is beyond me? It was a hail mary. You could play the best game of your career or the worst, a hail mary interception doesnt make the game you had any worse. That's all I'm saying. There is no deflection there. I'd say the same for any other QB in the NFL.
Deflection 2. "The refs screwed us"
Dude what? I explained there were two instances where the refs blew the call. Never did I say they screwed us. If anything, we screwed ourselves most of the game.
Deflection 3. "Cousins had to deal with a drop!"
Nope just once again pointing out the obvious that those were drive killers. Cousins could've recovered from those but didnt. But last I checked, the QB isnt the only one that needs to do his job when on the field......

A paragraph where you summarize your deflections.
Again, you just making up your own narrative to try and prove me wrong. I actually look at the entire picture, not just point at the QB for everything and say it's all your fault and call it a day.
Deflection 4. "The coaching staff isn't playing the right guys."

Do you honestly not see what you are doing here?
Dude are you really that ignorant? I said last week and this week the coaching staff wasnt playing their best players. But according to you I'm suppose to do what? Only blame the QB for all the problems? I'm not allowed to say the coaching staff, others players, refs, etc are doing anything wrong AS well?

Listen, I know you get a hard on when Cousins craps the bed. I know you froth at the mouth waiting to hop on the board, stick your finger out and point. But stop with your crap of creating your own narratives to try and prove me wrong. Clearly you havent changed one bit and I'm not dealing with your bullcrap this year. I've pointed out multiple problems going on with this team. That does NOT mean I am deflecting blame away from Cousins. I just dont direct every ounce of my blame at the QB every chance I get. Because clearly there are MULTIPLE problems with this team right now. Deflecting is NOT what I said or attempted to do. You put that in your own words and decided to put your own narrative to it. Again, I'm not dealing with it this year. So again, STOP.
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Re: Vikings Week 2: Good, Bad, and the Ugly

Post by Mothman » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:09 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:45 am
Dude are you really that ignorant? I said last week and this week the coaching staff wasnt playing their best players. But according to you I'm suppose to do what? Only blame the QB for all the problems? I'm not allowed to say the coaching staff, others players, refs, etc are doing anything wrong AS well?

Listen, I know you get a hard on when Cousins craps the bed. I know you froth at the mouth waiting to hop on the board, stick your finger out and point. But stop with your crap of creating your own narratives to try and prove me wrong. Clearly you havent changed one bit and I'm not dealing with your bullcrap this year. I've pointed out multiple problems going on with this team. That does NOT mean I am deflecting blame away from Cousins. I just dont direct every ounce of my blame at the QB every chance I get. Because clearly there are MULTIPLE problems with this team right now. Deflecting is NOT what I said or attempted to do. You put that in your own words and decided to put your own narrative to it. Again, I'm not dealing with it this year. So again, STOP.
Please don't bait or belittle each other.

It's ridiculous that I have to point this out for the 1000th time but when discussing football here, please disagree and respond to the post, do not make it about the poster. Make an effort to respond to the substance of a post, to the football-related content. Try to avoid commenting on the person, at least in a negative or belittling manner. Paying someone a compliment is obviously fine.

Nobody wants to spend the season reading exchange after exchange like the one above. If anybody finds themselves typing a phrase like "Dude are you really that ignorant?" in a post, please just start over. If you can't respond in a civil tone, just hold off on responding to someone until you can.

The world is tense enough these days. This should be a place where people can have some fun and discuss football without the conversation ending up in angry diatribes like the one above.
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Re: Vikings Week 2: Good, Bad, and the Ugly

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:49 pm

Mothman wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:09 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:45 am
Dude are you really that ignorant? I said last week and this week the coaching staff wasnt playing their best players. But according to you I'm suppose to do what? Only blame the QB for all the problems? I'm not allowed to say the coaching staff, others players, refs, etc are doing anything wrong AS well?

Listen, I know you get a hard on when Cousins craps the bed. I know you froth at the mouth waiting to hop on the board, stick your finger out and point. But stop with your crap of creating your own narratives to try and prove me wrong. Clearly you havent changed one bit and I'm not dealing with your bullcrap this year. I've pointed out multiple problems going on with this team. That does NOT mean I am deflecting blame away from Cousins. I just dont direct every ounce of my blame at the QB every chance I get. Because clearly there are MULTIPLE problems with this team right now. Deflecting is NOT what I said or attempted to do. You put that in your own words and decided to put your own narrative to it. Again, I'm not dealing with it this year. So again, STOP.
Please don't bait or belittle each other.

It's ridiculous that I have to point this out for the 1000th time but when discussing football here, please disagree and respond to the post, do not make it about the poster. Make an effort to respond to the substance of a post, to the football-related content. Try to avoid commenting on the person, at least in a negative or belittling manner. Paying someone a compliment is obviously fine.

Nobody wants to spend the season reading exchange after exchange like the one above. If anybody finds themselves typing a phrase like "Dude are you really that ignorant?" in a post, please just start over. If you can't respond in a civil tone, just hold off on responding to someone until you can.

The world is tense enough these days. This should be a place where people can have some fun and discuss football without the conversation ending up in angry diatribes like the one above.
I feel like the less "baiting" that happens on here, the less belittling happens. It's starting to become the norm on here when the Vikings are in a rut.
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Re: Vikings Week 2: Good, Bad, and the Ugly

Post by fiestavike » Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:08 pm

Cousins has shown himself to be what Cousons is and it's not a top flight qb. He is a guy. Paying him the kind of money they paid him was an obvious mistake. Doubling down on it was another mistake. And when paired with Spielman's mismanagement of the qb position generally, and particularly the inexcusable trade for Sam Bradford, I think it's enough to get him canned.
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