Pathetic

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TSonn
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Re: Pathetic

Post by TSonn » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:55 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:42 pm
The last time this team looked this bad was against the Bill's, and it seemed to many of us like something was going on behind the scenes. We later came to find out the Everson Griffin, a team leader, had gone bananas and there seemed to be more important things than football at play.

I am only speculating, but I wouldn't be surprised if this team is in the midst of a racial and or political divide. Spielman and Zimmer dont seem like guys well suited to play things politic enough to get everybody on the same page given the intensity of the passions at play, which may be a knock, or may be praise depending on ones point of view, but that's entirely secondary to the point I'm making. I think this team is playing like a house divided, like they have more important things on their mind, like they are not focused on the task at hand. Dont be shocked if we should hear something to this effect as the year goes on and as the season spirals out of control.
Doesn't even have to be political. I know they're all pro athletes and in good health but I would not want to be practicing, traveling, and playing during a pandemic. I especially wouldn't want to be playing during a pandemic if it was pretty clear early on in the season that the team wouldn't be very competitive.
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Re: Pathetic

Post by Bowhunting Viking » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:45 am

Yesterday during the game chat I made a post with 2 old John McKay quotes about his horrible Bucs team. The first was " We can't throw the ball, we can't tackle, and we can't kick it. Other than that We are all good baby!" and what I feel his very best ever , when a reporter asked him " Ehat do you think about the execution of your offense?". His reply " I'm all for it"
Both of those quotes seem very fitting right now
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Re: Pathetic

Post by Texas Vike » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:45 am

TSonn wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:55 pm
fiestavike wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:42 pm
The last time this team looked this bad was against the Bill's, and it seemed to many of us like something was going on behind the scenes. We later came to find out the Everson Griffin, a team leader, had gone bananas and there seemed to be more important things than football at play.

I am only speculating, but I wouldn't be surprised if this team is in the midst of a racial and or political divide. Spielman and Zimmer dont seem like guys well suited to play things politic enough to get everybody on the same page given the intensity of the passions at play, which may be a knock, or may be praise depending on ones point of view, but that's entirely secondary to the point I'm making. I think this team is playing like a house divided, like they have more important things on their mind, like they are not focused on the task at hand. Dont be shocked if we should hear something to this effect as the year goes on and as the season spirals out of control.
Doesn't even have to be political. I know they're all pro athletes and in good health but I would not want to be practicing, traveling, and playing during a pandemic. I especially wouldn't want to be playing during a pandemic if it was pretty clear early on in the season that the team wouldn't be very competitive.
Both of these scenarios are possible, but here's another that I believe to be the most likely: they simply aren't very good at key positions.

Edit to add: I've changed my avatar because I no longer believe Zimmer is the guy to take us to the promised land. It's time to mix things up, and I'll be mixing some drinks to get through what I expect to be a brutal season. :pour:
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Re: Pathetic

Post by Laserman » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:54 am

It's fairly simple. We had a snippet of a winning window the last few years and made some runs at it. It's just over, and we missed our window. Age is setting in now in key positions. This organization is not as smart as Bellichek and co and we've kept a few players too long. Say what you want but its rebuild time and we are a sub par team in for a long losing season. The Titans are up next week and we don't have a prayer at this game so expect 0-3. Playoffs? I'll be happy if we beat the lions once and win 1-3 games this year. Yeah, it's that bad. Cook, Theilan, and Kendricks is really all we have. Everybody else stinks
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Re: Pathetic

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:11 am

Laserman wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:54 am
It's fairly simple. We had a snippet of a winning window the last few years and made some runs at it. It's just over, and we missed our window. Age is setting in now in key positions. This organization is not as smart as Bellichek and co and we've kept a few players too long. Say what you want but its rebuild time and we are a sub par team in for a long losing season. The Titans are up next week and we don't have a prayer at this game so expect 0-3. Playoffs? I'll be happy if we beat the lions once and win 1-3 games this year. Yeah, it's that bad. Cook, Theilan, and Kendricks is really all we have. Everybody else stinks
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Re: Pathetic

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:13 am

Tark wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:14 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:00 pm


I mean....

#Vikings fans, we’ve been here before w/Zim

2015:

- Pummeled by SF in Wk 1
- Sky is falling
- Make playoffs

2017:

- Lose Bradford & get destroyed by Pit in Wk 2
- Sky is falling
- Make playoffs

2019

- Diggs dilemma & 2-2 after Wk 4
- Sky is falling
- Make playoffs


....but regardless of what happened the first two weeks, us being 0-2 doesn’t mean we’re landing Lawrence or have any sort of shot at him. Again, we have to finish dead last in the nfl to do that.
Going by that matrix, we’re not in the play offs until the sky is falling in 2021, right? To think otherwise is delusional. It’s irrelevant.
The years are what is irrelevant. It's just classic Vikings fan thinking. We've only seen it for how many years now? The whole, blow everything up, start tanking, everyone sucks, etc.
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Re: Pathetic

Post by Mothman » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:31 am

TSonn wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:10 pm
I guess one point that I've overlooked until now... giving Zimmer and Spielman the extensions last offseason may make them more OK with tanking this season since they're safe with the team for now. Maybe that's what we're seeing this season? Still doesn't make sense with some of the contracts we've brought in.
I don't think we're seeing "tanking" in an intentional sense. I think we're seeing failures of leadership, coaching and personnel management catch up with the team.
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Re: Pathetic

Post by Texas Vike » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:37 am

Mothman wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:31 am
TSonn wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:10 pm
I guess one point that I've overlooked until now... giving Zimmer and Spielman the extensions last offseason may make them more OK with tanking this season since they're safe with the team for now. Maybe that's what we're seeing this season? Still doesn't make sense with some of the contracts we've brought in.
I don't think we're seeing "tanking" in an intentional sense. I think we're seeing failures of leadership, coaching and personnel management catch up with the team.
I agree with this. To be fair, there are also some 'unfortunate and uncontrollable' issues that have made this season a lost cause. Pierce's opting out hurt us really bad. We needed him to plug the middle. Without stopping the run, Z's D just doesn't work. OTOH, a coach and GM worth their salt wouldn't have assembled DL talent in a way that depends on one guy so much.

I think the combo of soft interior D line and inexperienced CBs is the main issue right now, but I also think Zimm's scheme has just been figured out. TEs exploit our system so hard and it happens over and over.
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Re: Pathetic

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:40 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:13 am

The years are what is irrelevant. It's just classic Vikings fan thinking. We've only seen it for how many years now? The whole, blow everything up, start tanking, everyone sucks, etc.
I think there is a good chance you are right and the team isn't 0-16 bad and could possibly even win 7 games if everything went right.

What I think you might be missing though, is that fans who are wanting to tank for Trevor are only doing so because it helps them cope with being a terrible team. Strangely, 0-16 gives us more hope for the future than a 7 win team, because it means we are picking #1 and changes will be made at the top.
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Re: Pathetic

Post by Mothman » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:43 am

S197 wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:49 pm
Zimmer has never started 0-2. And this isn’t a hard fought, lost in the last minute 0-2. It’s a team that has been flat out embarrassed in back to back games.

I’m having a hard time figuring out how they turn it around. Hunter, assuming he can come back, could be a catalyst. But in the meantime what can the defense do? I think they need to blitz more often. Zimmer’s scheme seems to get softer every year. Remember the double A gap look? What happened to that? The cover zero blitzes. If you’re going to lose, at least hit the QB in the mouth a few times.
He's never been able to solve the run problems in his defense either and they also seem to be getting worse. Last season, in losses, the Vikes gave up way too much yardage on the ground and 2 games into this season they've already allowed over 300 yards rushing. That's a huge problem.
I do agree with PHP that this team isn’t Trevor Lawrence bad.
I don't think we know. We do know they're bad. They haven't been very competitive in the first two games and a key injury or two could easily send them spiraling into "worst in the league" territory. They appear headed for a top 10 pick and if they keep playing like this, top 3 isn't out of the question.
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Re: Pathetic

Post by Mothman » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:46 am

fiestavike wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:42 pm
The last time this team looked this bad was against the Bill's, and it seemed to many of us like something was going on behind the scenes. We later came to find out the Everson Griffin, a team leader, had gone bananas and there seemed to be more important things than football at play.

I am only speculating, but I wouldn't be surprised if this team is in the midst of a racial and or political divide. Spielman and Zimmer dont seem like guys well suited to play things politic enough to get everybody on the same page given the intensity of the passions at play, which may be a knock, or may be praise depending on ones point of view, but that's entirely secondary to the point I'm making. I think this team is playing like a house divided, like they have more important things on their mind, like they are not focused on the task at hand. Dont be shocked if we should hear something to this effect as the year goes on and as the season spirals out of control.
That's an interesting possibility. They ARE playing like a house divided.
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Re: Pathetic

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:57 am

Mothman wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:43 am
S197 wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:49 pm
Zimmer has never started 0-2. And this isn’t a hard fought, lost in the last minute 0-2. It’s a team that has been flat out embarrassed in back to back games.

I’m having a hard time figuring out how they turn it around. Hunter, assuming he can come back, could be a catalyst. But in the meantime what can the defense do? I think they need to blitz more often. Zimmer’s scheme seems to get softer every year. Remember the double A gap look? What happened to that? The cover zero blitzes. If you’re going to lose, at least hit the QB in the mouth a few times.
He's never been able to solve the run problems in his defense either and they also seem to be getting worse. Last season, in losses, the Vikes gave up way too much yardage on the ground and 2 games into this season they've already allowed over 300 yards rushing. That's a huge problem.
I do agree with PHP that this team isn’t Trevor Lawrence bad.
I don't think we know. We do know they're bad. They haven't been very competitive in the first two games and a key injury or two could easily send them spiraling into "worst in the league" territory. They appear headed for a top 10 pick and if they keep playing like this, top 3 isn't out of the question.
Totally agree they have looked worst in the league bad for the first two games. I just can't see that continuing for a whole season based on what the team has done under Zimmer.

I could be wrong, but it would be unprecedented and until I see it for most of a season, I will go with what has happened over a much larger sample size.
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Re: Pathetic

Post by Mothman » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:09 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:57 am
Totally agree they have looked worst in the league bad for the first two games. I just can't see that continuing for a whole season based on what the team has done under Zimmer.

I could be wrong, but it would be unprecedented and until I see it for most of a season, I will go with what has happened over a much larger sample size.
I'm sticking with "we don't know". :) I do know this is how 1-3 win seasons start. I won't be surprised if this team gets it together enough to win 5-7 games but I won't be surprised if they're dreadful all year either. I think they've been mismanaging their way toward a "crash and burn" season for a while. It may be here.

We'll know in a few months!
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Re: Pathetic

Post by ERIK the PURPLE » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:41 am

4mnvikings82 wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:40 pm
ERIK the PURPLE wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:11 pm
This season has all the markings of a 4-12 season. I’m disgusted. I fully expected Rogers to torch our secondary, but losing to this Colts team - Unforgivable. I guess I’m glad they only allowed 2500 fans because, living just north of Indy, I would have wasted my money taking the family to the game.
I'm curious what four teams you think we'll beat?
On second thought, those 5-11 teams under Tice were much better. Looks like 2-14.
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Re: Pathetic

Post by Mothman » Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:22 am

ERIK the PURPLE wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:41 am
On second thought, those 5-11 teams under Tice were much better. Looks like 2-14.
For what it's worth, Tice never had a 5-11 season. They were 6-10 in his first season and .500 or better after that.
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