Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:12 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:30 pm
Tark wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:43 am


Agreed, this franchise has been in big trouble since Tarkenton and Grant left the building. Garbage time production from the offense is meaningless. I'm with Percy, start the young players and the best talent we have and give them some on the job training. What could possibly go wrong..another embarrassment against the Slackers?? :confused: This club has yet to find a franchise QB. After Tark left who have we had?: Bob Lee, Percy's buddy Tommy Kramer, Wade Wilson, Brad Johnson, Rich Gannon, Daunte Culpepper, Teddy Bridgewater, TJ, and retreads like Randall Cunningham, Brett Farve, Jeff George, Donovan McNabb and the list goes on. Cousins probably isn't it either. Who are we bringing in after Cousins? Peyton Manning or John Elway??? :wallbang:
Switch our 2020 first round pick and give up 2 more for Trevor Lawrence. I am so serious. Lets solve this once and for all. ALl these other teams swing and hit or swing and miss and they still make up for it and are as competitive as we are. Time to have someone to look forward to.
You know, if there was a way to pull off some kind of deal to get Lawrence, I'd be all over it, no matter the cost.

In his four CFB playoff games, Lawrence has 1,167 yards, 8 TDs and 0 INTs. That's playing four of the NCAA's very best teams -- Notre Dame, Alabama, Ohio State and LSU -- as a freshman and sophomore. Lawrence can make every throw, he can run, and he can lead. He's got charisma. Plus, he WINS ... the guy has suffered ONE LOSS in his entire college career.

Whoever gets Trevor Lawrence is getting a jewel IMO.
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by 808vikingsfan » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:12 pm

Speaking of ugly, this season could get ugly fast. With the upcoming schedule, the Vikings could very well be 0-5 heading into week 6. Colts with Rivers, Titans with Henry, Texans with Watson, Seahawks.
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by vikeinmontana » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:42 pm

808vikingsfan wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:12 pm
Speaking of ugly, this season could get ugly fast. With the upcoming schedule, the Vikings could very well be 0-5 heading into week 6. Colts with Rivers, Titans with Henry, Texans with Watson, Seahawks.
As noted above, if there was EVER a time to start 0-5 and have a pretty lousy season; this would one. But we're not that lucky... :wink:
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:55 pm

808vikingsfan wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:12 pm
Speaking of ugly, this season could get ugly fast. With the upcoming schedule, the Vikings could very well be 0-5 heading into week 6. Colts with Rivers, Titans with Henry, Texans with Watson, Seahawks.
Endevor for Trevor
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by S197 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:21 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:17 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:10 am


Looking at these clips, the first one where you say O'Neill and Elf get beat simultaneously.....there was one problem there. It was Elflein. This is what's going to kill us this year is our interior. Watch how far O'Neill blocks his guy up field. That's an easy step up into the pocket for Cousins but he cant because Elflein gives us immediate pressure up the middle.

The second one, on the clip it looks like it's O'Neill that gets beat but that wasnt the problem again. They showed that replay during the game and Luke Braun spoke about it on his podcast yesterday. The Packers ran a late stunt. In a zone blocking scheme, Elflein needs to get the guy coming inside and O'Neill gets the guy going outside. O'Neill got caught in a pickle because the guy lined up over him came to the outside to start and then bailed last minute while Smith came inside. O'Neill was left on an island there while Elflein blocked nobody. That is another mistake on Elflein's part.

The third one, O'Neill wasnt really beat, he was pushed back which is where his below average strength comes into play.

But overall, the main problem here is Elflein and I really wonder if it's why Elflein was moved to RG because they figured O'Neill might make him better. That's not going to be the case and Elflein simply shouldnt be starting in general. Pat Elflein is going to make O'Neill look bad at times, at least to the average fan. But when you look at what actually broke down, it was Elflein, not Oneill. I trust Oneill pass blocking any day of the week.

It just baffles me that guys like Samia or Cleveland arent playing over Elflein. I'm sorry but neither of them can be THAT bad.
I recently rewatched game 1 of last year and Elf's play from that game mirrored this one. Plays where you watch him and wonder how he made an NFL roster, let alone earned a start.

One other note about the Oline: PFF has Reiff as our 2nd worst graded pass blocking Olineman yesterday. He gave up 0 pressures, had 0 penalties and is somehow graded worse than O'Neil.
And didn't Bradbury grade out the worse according to PFF? It's weird. I did notice the Vikings ran with a lot of success to the right so maybe their run blocking grades offset the pressures. It's also the only reason I can think of that we still have Elflein out there.
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by S197 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:29 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:03 am
Good
Cousins improvising. I agree, some of it wasn't pretty, but that was more his unwillingness to slide. Of particular note was his very first time making a play off schedule, the 25-yard completion to Thielen on the Vikings' opening drive. He saw his escape route early, took it at the right time (before he had no chance to escape) and fired a strike. THAT is what we need.

Thielen is back. I'm not sure there's anybody in the league who's better at intermediate routes in the 15-25 yard range. Hoping he stays healthy.

Bradbury looked a lot better this game than he did at any time last year. I suppose part of that was because Clark was out, but he struggled against guys a lot less tough than Clark last year.

Kendricks was all over the field. Officially he had 7 tackles ... seemed like 27.

It's only one play, but Rudolph going down as soon as he made the catch late in the first half. If he had tried for more yardage, the clock would have run out. I heard on a radio show yesterday that the first words in the huddle when Cousins called the play were "Down, down," which means "get down as soon as you catch the ball." Good situational awareness, and a good job by Rudy to actually pay attention.

No fumbles.

Bad
Where on earth was Anthony Barr? Almost never heard his name called, but he did miss several tackles, so there IS that.

Cam Dantzler playing press coverage on the touchdown to Valdes-Scantling. Gotta understand the situation there. Keep the play in front of you, and the half will run out. He's young. He'll learn.

Brian O'Neill. Worst game I've seen him play in a long time. Yes, he was going up against the Smith brothers, but if he's our best O-lineman, he needs to step up.

Not much else, mainly because the rest of it falls into the "ugly" category for me.

Ugly
Where to start? OK, the lack of pressure. I realize Rodgers got rid of the ball quickly, but watching our line pass rush ... they were getting no push or speed upfield. I have no idea how it's going to get better against the Colts' outstanding O-line, but it needs to.

The second quarter. Offense: Safety, 3-and-out, interception. Defense: Great job on the goal-line stand. Bad job everything else. The game was lost over those 15 minutes. It seems like this happens far too often under Zimmer. We play 3 quarters of competitive football but fall on our faces for a quarter and lose.

The lack of crowd noise. It's pretty much unfair to allow Aaron Rodgers to stand there and call the play from the line based on what he sees. The rest of the NFL needs to take notice ... without crowd noise, Rodgers' experience is going to be tough to deal with.

Zero three-and-outs forced by our defense. One punt by Green Bay. Ugh.

The INT by Kirk. Just a terrible throw, forced to a covered Thielen, on the wrong side, and so, so costly. The best way to prevent Rodgers from getting a quick score before the half is not giving him the ball in the first place. You CANNOT make a turnover there. Instead of going into the half trailing 15-7 at worst, 15-10 or even 15-14 if you do things right, we fell behind 22-7. The only turnover of the game, and it was HUGE.
Good summary Kapp.

I think Harris had a pretty rough game as well. He got washed out on a cut block (that also took out another Viking), botched the coverage on the long throw to Lazard, and frequently left the corners without help over top. Some of that may be game plan but it was weird to have our ball hawk safety just noticeably absent in coverage.

Also the run defense was also in the bad/ugly category. The defense gave up almost 5 yards per carry, which is horrendous.
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by PacificNorseWest » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:49 pm

At least no missed PATs or FGs. :lol:

2-Pt conversions were highly successful as well.
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by 808vikingsfan » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:20 pm

vikeinmontana wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:42 pm
808vikingsfan wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:12 pm
Speaking of ugly, this season could get ugly fast. With the upcoming schedule, the Vikings could very well be 0-5 heading into week 6. Colts with Rivers, Titans with Henry, Texans with Watson, Seahawks.
As noted above, if there was EVER a time to start 0-5 and have a pretty lousy season; this would one. But we're not that lucky... :wink:
Oh, I can imagine. Last week of the season, all the Vikings have to do is lose the game to secure the worst record and 1st pick. They end up kicking the game winning FG with 0:00 vs DET.
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:34 pm

S197 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:21 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:17 am

I recently rewatched game 1 of last year and Elf's play from that game mirrored this one. Plays where you watch him and wonder how he made an NFL roster, let alone earned a start.

One other note about the Oline: PFF has Reiff as our 2nd worst graded pass blocking Olineman yesterday. He gave up 0 pressures, had 0 penalties and is somehow graded worse than O'Neil.
And didn't Bradbury grade out the worse according to PFF? It's weird. I did notice the Vikings ran with a lot of success to the right so maybe their run blocking grades offset the pressures. It's also the only reason I can think of that we still have Elflein out there.
O'Neil graded out the best at 72, then Bradbury at 63, Reiff at 62, Elflein at 60 and Dozier was the only player on the line to receive a below average grade at 49.8.

Pass blocking it went like this:
Dozier at 81.2
Bradbury at 77.6
O'Neill at 68.4
Reiff at 66.3
and Elf at 25.4

A little more consistent with what we all saw Sunday.

Elf was the second best run blocker at 70.3 behind O'Neill at 73.1. Dozier was graded at 41.0 as a run blocker.

I read up a little on how PFF grades Oline and apparently they detract for a guy who is about to get beat but the QB throws it before they do. So while we all watch for actual results on the field, PFF watches for what could have been.

Their grades should always be questioned because of that, but the stats they keep are great.

Anyway, it looks like if we just replace Elf this line would be solid. At least based on one game.
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by Husker Vike » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:22 pm

This may be the worst performance from our Defense that I have seen in years. Aside from Kendricks, every one who took the field should take a long look in the mirror and face the fact that they were completely embarrassed on their home field. Coaches as well as players looked unprepared and pass rush was non existent, making it even harder for the young corner backs .
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by vikeinmontana » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:03 am

808vikingsfan wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:20 pm
vikeinmontana wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:42 pm


As noted above, if there was EVER a time to start 0-5 and have a pretty lousy season; this would one. But we're not that lucky... :wink:
Oh, I can imagine. Last week of the season, all the Vikings have to do is lose the game to secure the worst record and 1st pick. They end up kicking the game winning FG with 0:00 vs DET.
:lol:
Exactly!
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by S197 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:10 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:34 pm
S197 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:21 pm


And didn't Bradbury grade out the worse according to PFF? It's weird. I did notice the Vikings ran with a lot of success to the right so maybe their run blocking grades offset the pressures. It's also the only reason I can think of that we still have Elflein out there.
O'Neil graded out the best at 72, then Bradbury at 63, Reiff at 62, Elflein at 60 and Dozier was the only player on the line to receive a below average grade at 49.8.

Pass blocking it went like this:
Dozier at 81.2
Bradbury at 77.6
O'Neill at 68.4
Reiff at 66.3
and Elf at 25.4

A little more consistent with what we all saw Sunday.

Elf was the second best run blocker at 70.3 behind O'Neill at 73.1. Dozier was graded at 41.0 as a run blocker.

I read up a little on how PFF grades Oline and apparently they detract for a guy who is about to get beat but the QB throws it before they do. So while we all watch for actual results on the field, PFF watches for what could have been.

Their grades should always be questioned because of that, but the stats they keep are great.

Anyway, it looks like if we just replace Elf this line would be solid. At least based on one game.
Thanks. I don’t have a subscription so was just going off a comment I read.

A 25 pass block grade... I wonder how low those grades go.
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:06 am

S197 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:10 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:34 pm


O'Neil graded out the best at 72, then Bradbury at 63, Reiff at 62, Elflein at 60 and Dozier was the only player on the line to receive a below average grade at 49.8.

Pass blocking it went like this:
Dozier at 81.2
Bradbury at 77.6
O'Neill at 68.4
Reiff at 66.3
and Elf at 25.4

A little more consistent with what we all saw Sunday.

Elf was the second best run blocker at 70.3 behind O'Neill at 73.1. Dozier was graded at 41.0 as a run blocker.

I read up a little on how PFF grades Oline and apparently they detract for a guy who is about to get beat but the QB throws it before they do. So while we all watch for actual results on the field, PFF watches for what could have been.

Their grades should always be questioned because of that, but the stats they keep are great.

Anyway, it looks like if we just replace Elf this line would be solid. At least based on one game.
Thanks. I don’t have a subscription so was just going off a comment I read.

A 25 pass block grade... I wonder how low those grades go.
Probably 0, but on Sunday the lowest pass blocking grade 20. Elf had the 3rd lowest grade of all offensive linemen with qualifying snaps, he also was tied for the 3rd most pressures allowed.
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by S197 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:54 pm

Cousins decision on 4th down was worse than I thought. I saw Jefferson open underneath on TV. What you don’t see is Thielen wide open if he looks left.

https://twitter.com/lukebraunnfl/status ... 15488?s=21
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by RandyMoss84 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:27 am

Can you please stop with the Trevor talk? It is not going to happen
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