Packers-Vikings Game Day

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S197
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by S197 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:30 pm

ELIAS: Minnesota's 18:44 time of possession today is its lowest in a regular game since the league started recording TOP as a stat in 1977.
A decade. That was the last time Aaron Rodgers played a full game vs. #Vikings without being sacked: Oct. 24, 2010. LB Anthony Barr noted Rodgers' quick release, finding open guy, and better GB pass protection later in game "forced us to be a little more tentative" on blitzes.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:33 pm

S197 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:37 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:33 pm
This was about pass rush ... or the lack thereof.

You can't expect young, inexperienced corners to handle an offense like this if the line can't get anywhere near Rodgers. It's like the announcer said: If this game had been played on grass, Rodgers wouldn't have had the slightest bit of green on his pants.

It's obvious now why they traded for Ngakoue. They knew Hunter wasn't going to be ready to go. This is sad.

And by the way, I'm a fan of Kirk Cousins, and I thought his newfound scrambling was a welcome sight. But I can admit that his pick near the end of the half was incredibly costly. Just bad ball placement. However, he didn't lose the game today. Our defense, specifically the lack of pass rush, did that.
Which I think begs the question, do we need a defensive minded coach if that’s the product getting put out on the field? You can’t lose one guy and have the wheels fall off. The Packers were down 2 players on their DL and two on OL.

I think Zimmer is best at a DC position, he’s just not cut out to be a HC. He’s 0-7 against Nagy and Lafleur. The Youngblood’s are repeatedly taking him to school. He either has too much on his plate or his system has been figured out. Either way, it’s a big problem.
We lost a lot more than one player. Our oldest CB is 24 (boyd) and he doesn’t even play. We lost griffen and yannick only played half a game. We lost pierce and are much weaker at DT. We lost A LOT and this defense is very young
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Barry » Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:20 pm

And that boys and girls, is how you suck the joy out anticipating the start of the season.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by S197 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:31 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:33 pm
S197 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:37 pm


Which I think begs the question, do we need a defensive minded coach if that’s the product getting put out on the field? You can’t lose one guy and have the wheels fall off. The Packers were down 2 players on their DL and two on OL.

I think Zimmer is best at a DC position, he’s just not cut out to be a HC. He’s 0-7 against Nagy and Lafleur. The Youngblood’s are repeatedly taking him to school. He either has too much on his plate or his system has been figured out. Either way, it’s a big problem.
We lost a lot more than one player. Our oldest CB is 24 (boyd) and he doesn’t even play. We lost griffen and yannick only played half a game. We lost pierce and are much weaker at DT. We lost A LOT and this defense is very young
I meant losing someone based on injury. Our corners are young and we lost Griffen because of the cap situation that they decided was the best route for the team. That’s a case of strategy, looking more and more like the wrong one, but that is entirely self-inflicted. They don’t get a pass for that. It was their choice to extend and pay Cousins and several other individuals. Every team has the same cap space, you allocate your resources as you see fit.

The Vikings are in cap hell and have a serious deficiency of talent. That’s squarely on Rick and Zimmer. And Zygi for extending them. We have a top down problem. Until you try and fix the top, you can bring in as many OCs, free agents, former head coaches you want, it won’t make a material difference. They’re just scapegoats to the real problem.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by YikesVikes » Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:13 am

The Vikings are too soft where it matters the most on defense. We have a finesse LB and undersized run stopping DTs. Thats a bad combination. We really need to bring in Snacks Harrison. That would give us a player that Olines would have to double to move out of the way. As it is, they are single blocking our guys and sending guys to the LBs without helping.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by 808vikingsfan » Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:59 am

While the Vikings are certainly lacking in personnel, experience, and talent at the DL, WR, and DB positions, let's give credit where it's due. The Packers are a much better team than the Vikings this year. Rodgers was so quick, decisive, and accurate. I'm not even sure if having a healthy Hunter would have made a difference. If it weren't for a few drop balls and a missed opportunity at the goal line, it would have been an even bigger blowout. Vikings never had a chance after the failed drive at the start of the 3rd qtr.

Starting to have flashbacks of the Frazier years.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by FullWood » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:24 am

Not sure why some people say A rod has lost a step, or is average or is on the decline. Except for those two years hes broken his collarbone He has been best overall quarterback in the NFC for the last 10 years and he still is today. Im not surprised the way this game had gone today so many things went wrong before the game and during the game.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Cliff » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:37 am

The team simply didn't play well. The offense was terrible outside of the first drive and 4th quarter when the Packers had such a commanding lead they softened up. I can't tell if Kirk doesn't trust the WRs to win their match-ups or if they simply weren't getting open at all but either way that passing game was terrible.

Of course the sample size on offense was limited because the defense was so much more terrible they didn't get much of a chance to prove themselves. The 4th quarter gives a little hope but it's kind of hollow for me. In a game like this with the score so out of hand by the 4th Greenbay was content to let the Viking offense run out the clock and then theirs would do the same.

The defense was as bad as I feared in the off-season. Certainly something I'm not thrilled to be right about. The CBs are young and getting taken advantage of. The defensive line was a concern *before* Hunter was out because the middle is soft. Rodgers had all day to throw and running lanes were wide open. There's just really nothing good to say about the defense.

The Vikings took a step back talent-wise in the off season and it shows. Some of it bad luck (Pierce) and salary cap casualties (Waynes). Diggs for Jefferson (basically) is still an unknown but I'm assuming for at least 1 year it'll be a downgrade. Hunter is out for an unknown amount of time.

I know one game in is a little early to be so gloomy about it but that was *bad*. Really, really bad. Enough to make me think already it's a rebuilding season. But hey, maybe that spanking was enough to wake the team up and they'll rebound.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:28 am

S197 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:31 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:33 pm


We lost a lot more than one player. Our oldest CB is 24 (boyd) and he doesn’t even play. We lost griffen and yannick only played half a game. We lost pierce and are much weaker at DT. We lost A LOT and this defense is very young
I meant losing someone based on injury. Our corners are young and we lost Griffen because of the cap situation that they decided was the best route for the team. That’s a case of strategy, looking more and more like the wrong one, but that is entirely self-inflicted. They don’t get a pass for that. It was their choice to extend and pay Cousins and several other individuals. Every team has the same cap space, you allocate your resources as you see fit.

The Vikings are in cap hell and have a serious deficiency of talent. That’s squarely on Rick and Zimmer. And Zygi for extending them. We have a top down problem. Until you try and fix the top, you can bring in as many OCs, free agents, former head coaches you want, it won’t make a material difference. They’re just scapegoats to the real problem.
I feel like you're speaking out of pure frustration due to yesterdays loss.

Losing Griffen is a wash given they traded for Ngakoue. If anything, Ngakoue should be better for us long term. I'm not sure why that is looking "more and more like the wrong decision"?

As for the Vikings having a deficiency for talent. I dont entirely agree with that. One spot I will say that is true is at guard and defensive tackle. But nobody can expect rookie CBs to walk right in and be shut down corners against Aaron Rodgers. No less when you have no pass rush due to Hunter being out. This team is still very talented, they are just very young. They are young at WR, young at CB and young in other areas.

Cousins
Cook
Mattison
Thielen
Bisi (as a #3 option)
Rudy/Irv
Oneill
Hunter
Ngakoue
Pierce (even though he opted out)
Kendricks
Barr
Harris
Smith

......that's talent no matter how you want to lay it out. And a lot of it. Add in guys like Jefferson, Gladney, Dantzler, Cleveland, etc. You have to give these guys time and room to grow. You're saying we're severely lacking in talent when #1, the list of talent above proves that to be wrong and #2, these rookies didnt even get a chance to play preseason games and have 1 game of NFL experience under their belt. I'm sorry but that is just an overreaction. Are their "areas" lacking talent. 100%. Like I said, DT and OG. Outside of that, this team has plenty of talent across the board.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:39 am

808vikingsfan wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:59 am
While the Vikings are certainly lacking in personnel, experience, and talent at the DL, WR, and DB positions, let's give credit where it's due. The Packers are a much better team than the Vikings this year. Rodgers was so quick, decisive, and accurate. I'm not even sure if having a healthy Hunter would have made a difference. If it weren't for a few drop balls and a missed opportunity at the goal line, it would have been an even bigger blowout. Vikings never had a chance after the failed drive at the start of the 3rd qtr.

Starting to have flashbacks of the Frazier years.
I honestly dont think it has anything to do with the Packers being a better team. I think it comes down to experience vs. no experience.

Lets be truthful here, that defensive line is WORLDS better with Hunter and Pierce on it. Pierce takes on double teams often free up any 3 tech we have in there. Hunter is probably the best overall player on the entire team. Add Ngakoue in when he gets into the swing of things. But instead, Pierce opts out which is something out of our control and with Hunter down and Ngakoue being brand new, we're rushing Ifeadi Odenigbo, Jalyn Holmes, and Eddie Yarborough on the outside and having Shamar Stephen in the middle instead of Pierce. I really dont think fans are realizing how much of a monster impact it makes when we're down both Pierce and Hunter.

In turn, that DL either had below average players on it or inexperienced/brand new players. Same goes for our CBs. Below average players of Hughes and Hill and inexperienced ones in Dantzler and Gladney. Same goes for our WRs outside of Thielen. What rookie were the Packers forced to start or give legit playing time to? Not many. This Vikings team is going to get better and grow with experience and these rookies need to be on the field early and often. Especially Dantzler, Jefferson and Gladney. Stop tip-toeing around these rookies and put them in the damn game.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:50 am

Cliff wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:37 am
The team simply didn't play well. The offense was terrible outside of the first drive and 4th quarter when the Packers had such a commanding lead they softened up. I can't tell if Kirk doesn't trust the WRs to win their match-ups or if they simply weren't getting open at all but either way that passing game was terrible.

Of course the sample size on offense was limited because the defense was so much more terrible they didn't get much of a chance to prove themselves. The 4th quarter gives a little hope but it's kind of hollow for me. In a game like this with the score so out of hand by the 4th Greenbay was content to let the Viking offense run out the clock and then theirs would do the same.

The defense was as bad as I feared in the off-season. Certainly something I'm not thrilled to be right about. The CBs are young and getting taken advantage of. The defensive line was a concern *before* Hunter was out because the middle is soft. Rodgers had all day to throw and running lanes were wide open. There's just really nothing good to say about the defense.

The Vikings took a step back talent-wise in the off season and it shows. Some of it bad luck (Pierce) and salary cap casualties (Waynes). Diggs for Jefferson (basically) is still an unknown but I'm assuming for at least 1 year it'll be a downgrade. Hunter is out for an unknown amount of time.

I know one game in is a little early to be so gloomy about it but that was *bad*. Really, really bad. Enough to make me think already it's a rebuilding season. But hey, maybe that spanking was enough to wake the team up and they'll rebound.
I dont think it's a rebuilding season at all. Teams like Jacksonville are "rebuilding". Had a few talented players left on their roster and traded them or released them. Stripped their roster down. As I've said above, this team is just very inexperienced right now. There is plenty of talent on this team still. It's just between Ngakoue being new to the fold, Jefferson, Gladney and Dantzler being rookies, etc. things are going to look a lot different. You cant expect these guys to walk into the building and fill the shoes of Diggs, Waynes, Rhodes, Griffen, etc. on day 1. Ngakoue will sooner than later but it takes time with rookies. Especially given there was no preseason.

Where I think Zim went wrong yesterday was NOT playing these rookies enough. If someone like Waynes, Alexander, Diggs, etc. were on this team still and Gladney, Dantzler or Jefferson were sitting the bench, I 100% understand. But the fact that it's Bisi Johnson, Mike Hughes and Holton Hill, that right there is inexcusable. I can already tell you day 1 that those 3 draft picks are already better players than the 3 that were on the field. And some hardly played. I would even make the argument of Cleveland and Elflein. Across the league there were so many rookies starting, playing significantly and being involved early and often. And we have our 4 top draft picks playing no more than what seemed like 20% of the snaps (cant find snap counts anywhere yet). I know Cleveland didnt even suit, Jefferson hardly played until the 2nd half, and Gladney wasnt in until about 4 minutes to go in the game. Dantzler played the most but I felt like he was out a lot in that 2nd half.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Mothman » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:23 am

Texas Vike wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:05 pm
Our D was at a huge disadvantage today without Hunter, no real NT, and bc Yannick was dinged with an ankle injury. So no pressure and a lot of new CBs? Against Aaron Rodgers? Yeah, we needed the O to do better than a TOP of 18 minutes (to 42).
They needed a better TOP but I view that as a team stat and ultimately, I think the defense may have had more to do with the Vikings failing in that area than the offense did. Consider how the game started: GB had a 13 play, 7.5 minute scoring drive. The Vikes offense came out, did their job, and went 60 yards in 8 plays to take a 7-3 lead. The defense then allowed a 12 play, 74 yard drive that took 6 minutes. It ended in a goal line stand but 3 possessions into the game, the Vikings were already looking at a TOP difference of 13.5 to 8 minutes (and 25 GB plays to 8). The goal line stand left the offense stranded at the 1 and they made it worse by allowing a safety and giving the ball right back to the Packers.

The offense needed to give the defense a little rest and at least pick up a first down on that second possession but the defense had already set themselves up for a long, exhausting day on those first 2 drives. They can't let an opposing team come into their stadium and take over 13 of the first 22 minutes off the clock like that. It's losing football.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by StanM » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:53 am

In spite of our offense flashing some of the problems we feared going into the season they still managed to put 34 points on the board. I think that is enough to win on most Sundays in the NFL. Sure there are issues with the line and they are going to get better but I'll take 34 points any day.

The defense appears to be uncharacteristically bad right out of the gate. They weren't putting any pressure on the QB and that is a formula for disaster against Rodgers. Overall time of possession was something like 18 minutes and a few seconds for the Vikings so that kept a tired defence on the field.

I think this is a year where continuity will win the Super Bowl. The Vikings have a lot of good pieces but they are making wholesale changes on both lines, both corners and are missing two key pieces of the D line, Pierce for the season and Hunter for who knows how long.

It's going to be a tough year for teams like the Vikings that have changed in so many areas over the off season. The normal turn around of one or two lost players and the luxury of training camp would have helped. The analysts ranked Green Bays draft low because they did not make any significant changes and praised the Vikings giving them high grades for the number of good players taken. Our problem appears to be that this is probably the worst season in NFL history to get new players up to speed. The turn around on the Vikings would be difficult in a normal year.

With that said I think based on the 34 points and our defense doing well when the score was close and players were fresh will keep us competitive in the division. Rodgers looks sharp and if he keeps that up he will torch a lot of teams this year. If we can solve some of our defensive issues to keep us in games and the offense can improve their game we should be able to at least stay in the conversation this season.

I hate to say it but just like a lot of other things in 2020 this season will be anything but ordinary. I have to remind myself that this team has a habit of pooping the bed one week and looking like world beaters the next. In that sense they are consistent.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by TSonn » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:58 am

Still looks like we're a great Division II team playing in a Division I league. Just no creativity on offense or defense. I've always felt this way with Zim except for 2017 when Shurmur was running the show on Offense.

How many years have to pass before we all realize that our pedestrian offense and let-down defense is a symptom of Zimmer, not the players?
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:32 am

TSonn wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:58 am
Still looks like we're a great Division II team playing in a Division I league. Just no creativity on offense or defense. I've always felt this way with Zim except for 2017 when Shurmur was running the show on Offense.

How many years have to pass before we all realize that our pedestrian offense and let-down defense is a symptom of Zimmer, not the players?
I dont think that Pat Shurmur had any more control over the offense in 2017 than Gary Kubiak does now. No less Zim has enough to worry about right now with his defense. This isnt Mike Zimmer's offense. It's Gary Kubiak's and it has been a very good offense for many years around the NFL. But it's kind of hard to have success when you dont have the ball or put yourself in bad positions.
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