Packers-Vikings Game Day

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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:29 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:33 pm
This was about pass rush ... or the lack thereof.

You can't expect young, inexperienced corners to handle an offense like this if the line can't get anywhere near Rodgers. It's like the announcer said: If this game had been played on grass, Rodgers wouldn't have had the slightest bit of green on his pants.

It's obvious now why they traded for Ngakoue. They knew Hunter wasn't going to be ready to go. This is sad.

And by the way, I'm a fan of Kirk Cousins, and I thought his newfound scrambling was a welcome sight. But I can admit that his pick near the end of the half was incredibly costly. Just bad ball placement. However, he didn't lose the game today. Our defense, specifically the lack of pass rush, did that.
Agreed kapp. Pass rush was the killer. The fact that Yarborough was in there quite often showed we are definitely lacking some depth. I just figured that if Ngakoue was going to play on a limited basis and with hunter being out, Zim would throw blitz packages more often. I felt like I hardly saw any. They just rushed with 4 all day. You can’t rush 4 and leave young corners on an island all day without laying a finger on Rodgers. I think we pressured Rodgers 7 times on 44 drop backs. That’s terrible. We need hunter back desperately and we need to get Ngakoue in there full time.

Capers is known for blitz packages also and you would’ve thought he would’ve figured something out also.

Bottom line is, I think they need to put Hughes at nickel, maybe rotate hill there (not sure if he can play nickel) or on the outside and start gladney and dantzler. I thought Dantzler played well just in the sense of being glued to his guy. If he was getting torched by 5 yards then I wouldn’t be saying that but for playing in his first ever game with no preseason against Rodgers, I liked what I saw. I was annoyed to see them put gladney in late. Let these guys play and learn. No less gladney is a very good tackler, the other corners on the other hand are not. They were drafted where they were for a reason, they’ve been flashing in practice for a reason. Put them in the damn game.

It’s no different than 2018 when they had O’Neill benched for Hill for the first few weeks. Clearly he was way better than hill, play your best damn players. I’m sick of this easing the rookies in crap.

No different with Jefferson. Ruggs started today. Reagor started. I bet money Jeudy will play early and often. Lamb who knows due to their depth at WR but Jefferson barely saw the field early. When he got on the field in the second half he flashed and he flashed his elusiveness as well. I like Bisi but Bisi is a 3rd guy at best, period! And I can tell you right now Jefferson is already a better WR. And he’s more elusive. PLAY YOUR BEST DAMN PLAYERS ZIM!
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Texas Vike » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:05 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:44 pm
Texas Vike wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:33 pm
Same issues as always: OL woes, Cousins is jittery, Refs are solidly with the Pack.
Cousins wasn’t jittery at all. This is probably the loosest I’ve ever seen him as a Viking given how he was escaping the pocket. Interior OL will continue to be a problem. Mike Hughes and Eric Wilson need to be on the bench. Hill I can tolerate to an extent. Gladney and dantzler need to be the outside starting CBs. Why it took Zim so long to put in gladney and Jefferson is beyond me. Dantzler gave up a couple but was right there for every one of them and that will improve with time. Hill and Hughes were getting twisted out of their shoes.

No less I felt like Yannick Played about half the game. Eddie yarbourgh might’ve gotten more time. We have zero push at DT (although Johnson played well vs the run I thought).

I just hate this, lets groom the rookies crap. Put Jefferson, gladney and dantzler in and keep them in. He’ll get Cleveland in at guard too. Get these garbage players out and put these guys in. We don’t have time to sit around and let them learn. They will learn when they are out there.
I posted at 1:30, you posted at 4:44. Cousins was jittery in the first half, when the game was in reach, per usual. I agree that his rushes were a nice, new addition. But he just doesn't command the field like a guy with his pay check should. Rodgers put on a clinic today for how to do it. Cousins is great against prevent Ds in garbage time.

Did our D cause us issues today? Yes, for sure, but they played their bend but don't break style and were keeping us in it for a while. The O just couldn't string anything together and forced our D to play way too many minutes in a row. TOP was insanely unbalanced. Worst in team history, actually. You can't say that wasn't our O's fault.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Texas Vike » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:08 pm

UK Phil wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:50 pm
Texas Vike wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:33 pm
Same issues as always: OL woes, Cousins is jittery, Refs are solidly with the Pack.

Let's not blame the refs please. Rodgers has alllll day to throw and these Packers receivers seem to be wide open all the time. Can't remember us having a defense this bad for a long time.

Gunna be a long season.
Yet another poster taking my post out of context. Over the course of the game, the refs were not the decisive factor, but in the first half there were some really #### #### calls and they let the Pack get away with delay of game on about half of their plays and holding on the other half. He has all day to throw for a reason!
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:09 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:29 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:33 pm
This was about pass rush ... or the lack thereof.

You can't expect young, inexperienced corners to handle an offense like this if the line can't get anywhere near Rodgers. It's like the announcer said: If this game had been played on grass, Rodgers wouldn't have had the slightest bit of green on his pants.

It's obvious now why they traded for Ngakoue. They knew Hunter wasn't going to be ready to go. This is sad.

And by the way, I'm a fan of Kirk Cousins, and I thought his newfound scrambling was a welcome sight. But I can admit that his pick near the end of the half was incredibly costly. Just bad ball placement. However, he didn't lose the game today. Our defense, specifically the lack of pass rush, did that.
Agreed kapp. Pass rush was the killer. The fact that Yarborough was in there quite often showed we are definitely lacking some depth. I just figured that if Ngakoue was going to play on a limited basis and with hunter being out, Zim would throw blitz packages more often. I felt like I hardly saw any. They just rushed with 4 all day. You can’t rush 4 and leave young corners on an island all day without laying a finger on Rodgers. I think we pressured Rodgers 7 times on 44 drop backs. That’s terrible. We need hunter back desperately and we need to get Ngakoue in there full time.

Capers is known for blitz packages also and you would’ve thought he would’ve figured something out also.

Bottom line is, I think they need to put Hughes at nickel, maybe rotate hill there (not sure if he can play nickel) or on the outside and start gladney and dantzler. I thought Dantzler played well just in the sense of being glued to his guy. If he was getting torched by 5 yards then I wouldn’t be saying that but for playing in his first ever game with no preseason against Rodgers, I liked what I saw. I was annoyed to see them put gladney in late. Let these guys play and learn. No less gladney is a very good tackler, the other corners on the other hand are not. They were drafted where they were for a reason, they’ve been flashing in practice for a reason. Put them in the damn game.

It’s no different than 2018 when they had O’Neill benched for Hill for the first few weeks. Clearly he was way better than hill, play your best damn players. I’m sick of this easing the rookies in crap.

No different with Jefferson. Ruggs started today. Reagor started. I bet money Jeudy will play early and often. Lamb who knows due to their depth at WR but Jefferson barely saw the field early. When he got on the field in the second half he flashed and he flashed his elusiveness as well. I like Bisi but Bisi is a 3rd guy at best, period! And I can tell you right now Jefferson is already a better WR. And he’s more elusive. PLAY YOUR BEST DAMN PLAYERS ZIM!
Tell you what man ... if Rodgers doesn't get pressured, he's going to torch everybody. They've got some weapons. And this offense. LaFleur has given Rodgers complete control to do whatever he wants at the LOS. The only way anybody is going to slow this team down is to get in his face.

In short, it looks like Rodgers actually gives a damn this season. That's not good news.

I liked Jefferson's burst after the catch. Bisi played pretty well, too. IDK, I wasn't horrified by the offense, especially in the second half.

But the Packers' long drives coupled with the safety killed us. I mean, at one point the TOP was 3 to 1 in favor of Green Bay, and that was with the Vikings putting together a long TD drive. Then the INT by Cousins ... horrible throw that cost us a chance to get back in the game.

I agree with you about the corners. There were some issues, but they played hard and didn't get burned badly except for the drop by Valdez-Scandling. But those young guys had no chance with Rodgers just sitting there in the pocket having a beer.

Gladney hasn't been 100% healthy. I'm guessing that had something to do with his lack of playing time.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Texas Vike » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:16 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:09 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:29 pm

But those young guys had no chance with Rodgers just sitting there in the pocket having a beer.

Gladney hasn't been 100% healthy. I'm guessing that had something to do with his lack of playing time.
And given his rate of drinking beer is so slow (see Bucks game tape), that's saying something.

Dantzler looked great for his first game. I can't wait to see more of Gladney. Hughes looked like our old crew--lots of space for whomever he's covering.

I agree with PHP that Bisi is a #3 at best, and Jet looked promising today... let him play!
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by StumpHunter » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:28 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:44 pm
Texas Vike wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:33 pm
Same issues as always: OL woes, Cousins is jittery, Refs are solidly with the Pack.
Cousins wasn’t jittery at all. This is probably the loosest I’ve ever seen him as a Viking given how he was escaping the pocket. Interior OL will continue to be a problem. Mike Hughes and Eric Wilson need to be on the bench. Hill I can tolerate to an extent. Gladney and dantzler need to be the outside starting CBs. Why it took Zim so long to put in gladney and Jefferson is beyond me. Dantzler gave up a couple but was right there for every one of them and that will improve with time. Hill and Hughes were getting twisted out of their shoes.

No less I felt like Yannick Played about half the game. Eddie yarbourgh might’ve gotten more time. We have zero push at DT (although Johnson played well vs the run I thought).

I just hate this, lets groom the rookies crap. Put Jefferson, gladney and dantzler in and keep them in. He’ll get Cleveland in at guard too. Get these garbage players out and put these guys in. We don’t have time to sit around and let them learn. They will learn when they are out there.
Agree about getting the young guys in there more. Both Hill and Hughes sucked and Gladney couldn't be any worse. Bisi actually had the best game I have seen out of him but that wasn't until the game was already out of hand.

I read somewhere that the Viking EPA was -.61 through the first 3 qtrs, which would be the worst mark this season for any team.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Lash Man » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:37 pm

Everyone blaming the Offense for the crazy first half stats needs to look at the fact that when they were fully rested in the first three drives the Defense gives up about 7 yards a pass and run they need to stop the other team if they want to get rest try making a third down stop and then you won't need to rely on your Offense which really is a way of saying you cant play defense . The good to great defenses stop the other team and give the ball back to their own offense .
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:36 pm

Texas Vike wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:05 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:44 pm


Cousins wasn’t jittery at all. This is probably the loosest I’ve ever seen him as a Viking given how he was escaping the pocket. Interior OL will continue to be a problem. Mike Hughes and Eric Wilson need to be on the bench. Hill I can tolerate to an extent. Gladney and dantzler need to be the outside starting CBs. Why it took Zim so long to put in gladney and Jefferson is beyond me. Dantzler gave up a couple but was right there for every one of them and that will improve with time. Hill and Hughes were getting twisted out of their shoes.

No less I felt like Yannick Played about half the game. Eddie yarbourgh might’ve gotten more time. We have zero push at DT (although Johnson played well vs the run I thought).

I just hate this, lets groom the rookies crap. Put Jefferson, gladney and dantzler in and keep them in. He’ll get Cleveland in at guard too. Get these garbage players out and put these guys in. We don’t have time to sit around and let them learn. They will learn when they are out there.
I posted at 1:30, you posted at 4:44. Cousins was jittery in the first half, when the game was in reach, per usual. I agree that his rushes were a nice, new addition. But he just doesn't command the field like a guy with his pay check should. Rodgers put on a clinic today for how to do it. Cousins is great against prevent Ds in garbage time.

Did our D cause us issues today? Yes, for sure, but they played their bend but don't break style and were keeping us in it for a while. The O just couldn't string anything together and forced our D to play way too many minutes in a row. TOP was insanely unbalanced. Worst in team history, actually. You can't say that wasn't our O's fault.
Again, I don’t think he was jittery at all. He was making some plays with his legs. A jittery cousins folds up in the pocket. But we had what? 5 possessions in the first half? Two of them resulted in points. One where we were buried on our own goal line and let a free runner to cousins blindside. That was a 40 second possession and by no means was that on cousins. One where cousins threw a pick, totally his fault bad throw. One where cousins got sacked due to a missed stunt by our OL.

Outside of the one int, I thought cousins played halfway decent. And FYI, the packers weren’t in “prevent”. Prevent is when you keep everything in front of you. Both TDs to Thielen were deep and over the top in one on one coverage. Was it a different look than the first half, probably but it was not prevent.

But the only drive I can really fault cousins on the was pick. The other two we scored, and the remaining two were sacks given up that had nothing to do with cousins holding the ball too long or any of that garbage. It was simply missed assignments by our OL that gave cousins zero time.

Bottom line is, this defense gave up 40+. Kirk cousins is the least of our problems
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by S197 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:37 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:33 pm
This was about pass rush ... or the lack thereof.

You can't expect young, inexperienced corners to handle an offense like this if the line can't get anywhere near Rodgers. It's like the announcer said: If this game had been played on grass, Rodgers wouldn't have had the slightest bit of green on his pants.

It's obvious now why they traded for Ngakoue. They knew Hunter wasn't going to be ready to go. This is sad.

And by the way, I'm a fan of Kirk Cousins, and I thought his newfound scrambling was a welcome sight. But I can admit that his pick near the end of the half was incredibly costly. Just bad ball placement. However, he didn't lose the game today. Our defense, specifically the lack of pass rush, did that.
Which I think begs the question, do we need a defensive minded coach if that’s the product getting put out on the field? You can’t lose one guy and have the wheels fall off. The Packers were down 2 players on their DL and two on OL.

I think Zimmer is best at a DC position, he’s just not cut out to be a HC. He’s 0-7 against Nagy and Lafleur. The Youngblood’s are repeatedly taking him to school. He either has too much on his plate or his system has been figured out. Either way, it’s a big problem.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by S197 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:48 pm

What was also weird is not only the lack of pressure but also the lack of safety help over the top. On almost every deep ball, they put our corner one on one with neither Smith or Harris helping. If you’re not blitzing and not helping your young corners what exactly was the game plan? It sure wasn’t putting guys in the box to stop the run. Maybe it was to take away the middle of the field, which Rodgers was fine with as he picked apart the sidelines.

And the worst of it all is Love is sitting on the bench learning, probably for the next two years. Just like Rodgers did. Easy pass of the torch. Meanwhile we have Mannion and whatever UDFA flavor they chose for the 10th year in a row.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:03 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:28 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:44 pm


Cousins wasn’t jittery at all. This is probably the loosest I’ve ever seen him as a Viking given how he was escaping the pocket. Interior OL will continue to be a problem. Mike Hughes and Eric Wilson need to be on the bench. Hill I can tolerate to an extent. Gladney and dantzler need to be the outside starting CBs. Why it took Zim so long to put in gladney and Jefferson is beyond me. Dantzler gave up a couple but was right there for every one of them and that will improve with time. Hill and Hughes were getting twisted out of their shoes.

No less I felt like Yannick Played about half the game. Eddie yarbourgh might’ve gotten more time. We have zero push at DT (although Johnson played well vs the run I thought).

I just hate this, lets groom the rookies crap. Put Jefferson, gladney and dantzler in and keep them in. He’ll get Cleveland in at guard too. Get these garbage players out and put these guys in. We don’t have time to sit around and let them learn. They will learn when they are out there.
Agree about getting the young guys in there more. Both Hill and Hughes sucked and Gladney couldn't be any worse. Bisi actually had the best game I have seen out of him but that wasn't until the game was already out of hand.

I read somewhere that the Viking EPA was -.61 through the first 3 qtrs, which would be the worst mark this season for any team.
And on top of it, gladney is a VERY good tackler. With Waynes gone we no longer have that either. And the rest of the corners did not impress me in that regard. It’s just this whole grooming thing is notorious Zim. Look across the league. High round picks are playing all over the place. But we’re sitting here starting Bisi Johnson, Mike Hughes and Holton hill. It’s beyond frustrating. Hell we’re playing two dud guards over Ezra who was a healthy scratch today. Like ya know what? If for some reason Justin Jefferson or any of these other guys fall on their face, sure it would suck but THEN you can resort to guys like Bisi, Elflein, Hughes, hill, etc. But you’re literally keep guys screaming with potential sitting on your bench while the guys in their place are playing like dog crap.

Yeah I mean I thought Bisi played well. But it’s just Jefferson’s overall ability after the catch, elusiveness, catch radius, etc., he just doesn’t belong on the bench. And he pretty much was until the second half. Just stupid. Play your best players. They’ll be ok, they’ll make it.

I think the first time I saw gladney was like 4 minutes left in the game. When Hughes and hill were getting beat all game. I think even dantzler went out for an extended period in the second half. Like why? At least dantzler is running with these guys hip to hip. And I think both completions on him (that I remember) was a short one vs Adams where he was draped all over him and the deep ball where his hand was a millisecond too late from knocking it away. Hughes and hill were getting twisted and turned to the point their shoes were about to fall off.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by PacificNorseWest » Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:13 pm

Well, that was disappointing.

I'm not even impressed by the offense at all. The bulk of their production came when GB loosened their defense up to keep everything in front of them.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:14 pm

Is it just me or has the crowd noise in some of these games been much louder than ours. I feel like our crowd noise was next to zero. It legit sounds like fans were at the New Orleans game and this rams game. You could’ve heard Rodgers fart when they were on offense. Our tech department really failed today in that regard
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Texas Vike » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:05 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:36 pm
Texas Vike wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:05 pm


I posted at 1:30, you posted at 4:44. Cousins was jittery in the first half, when the game was in reach, per usual. I agree that his rushes were a nice, new addition. But he just doesn't command the field like a guy with his pay check should. Rodgers put on a clinic today for how to do it. Cousins is great against prevent Ds in garbage time.

Did our D cause us issues today? Yes, for sure, but they played their bend but don't break style and were keeping us in it for a while. The O just couldn't string anything together and forced our D to play way too many minutes in a row. TOP was insanely unbalanced. Worst in team history, actually. You can't say that wasn't our O's fault.
Again, I don’t think he was jittery at all. He was making some plays with his legs. A jittery cousins folds up in the pocket. But we had what? 5 possessions in the first half? Two of them resulted in points. One where we were buried on our own goal line and let a free runner to cousins blindside. That was a 40 second possession and by no means was that on cousins. One where cousins threw a pick, totally his fault bad throw. One where cousins got sacked due to a missed stunt by our OL.

Outside of the one int, I thought cousins played halfway decent. And FYI, the packers weren’t in “prevent”. Prevent is when you keep everything in front of you. Both TDs to Thielen were deep and over the top in one on one coverage. Was it a different look than the first half, probably but it was not prevent.

But the only drive I can really fault cousins on the was pick. The other two we scored, and the remaining two were sacks given up that had nothing to do with cousins holding the ball too long or any of that garbage. It was simply missed assignments by our OL that gave cousins zero time.

Bottom line is, this defense gave up 40+. Kirk cousins is the least of our problems
I get what you're saying: Cousins didn't cost us the game by any stretch of the imagination. I wrote at halftime that he looked jittery and was hurting us. Look at our first half offensive stats. Go back and watch Kirk's performance. He was like 3 for 7 for 50 yards in the first half with a terrible INT. His runs were good, but came from him looking anything but calm, cool, and collected in the pocket. That safety... I don't know who to chalk that up to, our OC? But Kirk has the option to audible to change his protection when he sees the safety come up to the line. Rodgers would have, I can assure you of that. But whatever, y'all want to pick at one thing I wrote at halftime, have at it, he certainly looked better in the second half, after which you wrote your critique of my comment, I don't deny that. That fade he threw to AT was gorgeous.

Our D was at a huge disadvantage today without Hunter, no real NT, and bc Yannick was dinged with an ankle injury. So no pressure and a lot of new CBs? Against Aaron Rodgers? Yeah, we needed the O to do better than a TOP of 18 minutes (to 42). How many neutral zone infractions did we have? (How many delay of game penalties were NOT called on GB?) Frustrating game and I'm not terribly optimistic about this season.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by StpViking » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:13 pm

I never bought into the draft hype. I still think this is the usual 8-8 Zimmer season. Oh well, we can all dream of getting blown out at the NFC Championship game next season.
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