Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

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Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:10 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:05 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:15 am


They cut Fournette after his best season and I don't think it saved them any cap since he was still on his first round contract. They are paying him 6 million to not play for them.

This is an even more obvious tank than Miami's last year. Minshew must be having a really bad camp.
Except Miami didn't tank at all. They started the season looking like the worst team of all time and were playing respectably by the end. My favorite non Vikings game of the year was Miami over New England.
Did they stop tanking/playing poorly when Tua got hurt? I think the timing was pretty close if I remember correctly.

I also think there is a difference between management doing everything to lose football games and the coaches and players on the field. Miami management wanted to lose, or at least were okay with losing based on the trades they made early in the season. That doesn't mean the coaching staff and players weren't doing their best to win.
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Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by VikingsVictorious » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:01 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:10 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:05 am

Except Miami didn't tank at all. They started the season looking like the worst team of all time and were playing respectably by the end. My favorite non Vikings game of the year was Miami over New England.
Did they stop tanking/playing poorly when Tua got hurt? I think the timing was pretty close if I remember correctly.

I also think there is a difference between management doing everything to lose football games and the coaches and players on the field. Miami management wanted to lose, or at least were okay with losing based on the trades they made early in the season. That doesn't mean the coaching staff and players weren't doing their best to win.
You may be right about management, but the players didn't agree. I actually gained Huge respect for Miami after they started that season how they did and bounced back the way they did. I'm very much rooting for them to have success going forward.
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Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:12 pm

Bumping this to show that even fans had more foresight than the GM.

A lot of posters questioned this move when it happened and what this would mean for the future of the team. Why didn't Rick?
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Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by Foreman44 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:29 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:12 pm
Bumping this to show that even fans had more foresight than the GM.

A lot of posters questioned this move when it happened and what this would mean for the future of the team. Why didn't Rick?
Still a dumb move to sign this guy. Don’t blame Yannick. He wanted better, got the same. Now he gets his wish. Good for him.

Spielman was a bonehead. Is a boneheaded GM, to think I stood by him as long as I did..

All we did was throw away a top 35 pick for a 90 plus pick, who knows what stud we missed out on.

Although I believe you can find quality stars every round, the odds of 35 starring is higher than number 90. At least immediately.
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Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:29 am

Foreman44 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:29 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:12 pm
Bumping this to show that even fans had more foresight than the GM.

A lot of posters questioned this move when it happened and what this would mean for the future of the team. Why didn't Rick?
Still a dumb move to sign this guy. Don’t blame Yannick. He wanted better, got the same. Now he gets his wish. Good for him.

Spielman was a bonehead. Is a boneheaded GM, to think I stood by him as long as I did..

All we did was throw away a top 35 pick for a 90 plus pick, who knows what stud we missed out on.

Although I believe you can find quality stars every round, the odds of 35 starring is higher than number 90. At least immediately.
What is boneheaded is trading him IMO. I think the trade to get him was an excellent trade. I'd take a DE of Ngakoue's caliber any day with our 2nd round pick.

As I mentioned in another thread, name the number one reason why the 49ers were in the SB last year.....their DL because they were absolutely dominant in just about every game. Going into next year with Hunter, Ngakoue and Pierce already gives us one of the better DLs in the NFL. I dont care if we stripped the rest of the roster, that DL is a hell of a start to what now looks like a rebuild. If we could've kept Ngakoue and let guys like Harris, Reiff and whoever else walk, I'm 100% fine with it. Not very often do you have two 25 year old DE's in their prime wreaking havoc along with one of the top run stuffers in the league.

I dont know if I will ever understand this move other than he's not one of "Zim's original guys". Because I know "his guys" will always be favored over the ones that arent.

Think about it.....name one guy since Zimmer has been here that he has flat out benched because he was playing bad? I literally cant name one. The only reason Brian O'Neill got the nod was because Hill got hurt. The only reason Cleveland got in at guard was because Samia and Elflein got "hurt". Elflein was never benched last year either. Our bum DTs have never been benched. Rhodes was never benched. Waynes was never benched back when he was struggling. Cousins has never been benched when he was struggling. They slowly snuck Jefferson into the lineup over Bisi but he just HAD to give Bisi the nod in the beginning of the year. Why? I swear he doesnt want to hurt anyones feelings. On a podcast the other day someone mentioned that they thought it was odd that all of the sudden Dru Samia ended up on the injury report. He thinks it was their way of saying, you suck and need to be pulled.

I'm just really getting sick of Zim's ways. Much more sick of that than I am Spielman because I still do like Spielman come draft day. However, trading Ngakoue away was very much a stupid move.
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Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by fiestavike » Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:40 am

Ngakoue isnt very good. Shouldn't have traded for him and his huge contract in the first place...

Probably a panic move led to the trade to begin with.
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Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:11 am

fiestavike wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:40 am
Ngakoue isnt very good. Shouldn't have traded for him and his huge contract in the first place...

Probably a panic move led to the trade to begin with.
Yep, another move similar to the Bradford trade. Star player gets hurt and Rick panicked once again. Exactly what you want in a GM, a guy who panics when faced with adversity.
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Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by Foreman44 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:35 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:29 am
Foreman44 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:29 am


Still a dumb move to sign this guy. Don’t blame Yannick. He wanted better, got the same. Now he gets his wish. Good for him.

Spielman was a bonehead. Is a boneheaded GM, to think I stood by him as long as I did..

All we did was throw away a top 35 pick for a 90 plus pick, who knows what stud we missed out on.

Although I believe you can find quality stars every round, the odds of 35 starring is higher than number 90. At least immediately.
What is boneheaded is trading him IMO. I think the trade to get him was an excellent trade. I'd take a DE of Ngakoue's caliber any day with our 2nd round pick.

As I mentioned in another thread, name the number one reason why the 49ers were in the SB last year.....their DL because they were absolutely dominant in just about every game. Going into next year with Hunter, Ngakoue and Pierce already gives us one of the better DLs in the NFL. I dont care if we stripped the rest of the roster, that DL is a hell of a start to what now looks like a rebuild. If we could've kept Ngakoue and let guys like Harris, Reiff and whoever else walk, I'm 100% fine with it. Not very often do you have two 25 year old DE's in their prime wreaking havoc along with one of the top run stuffers in the league.

I dont know if I will ever understand this move other than he's not one of "Zim's original guys". Because I know "his guys" will always be favored over the ones that arent.

Think about it.....name one guy since Zimmer has been here that he has flat out benched because he was playing bad? I literally cant name one. The only reason Brian O'Neill got the nod was because Hill got hurt. The only reason Cleveland got in at guard was because Samia and Elflein got "hurt". Elflein was never benched last year either. Our bum DTs have never been benched. Rhodes was never benched. Waynes was never benched back when he was struggling. Cousins has never been benched when he was struggling. They slowly snuck Jefferson into the lineup over Bisi but he just HAD to give Bisi the nod in the beginning of the year. Why? I swear he doesnt want to hurt anyones feelings. On a podcast the other day someone mentioned that they thought it was odd that all of the sudden Dru Samia ended up on the injury report. He thinks it was their way of saying, you suck and need to be pulled.

I'm just really getting sick of Zim's ways. Much more sick of that than I am Spielman because I still do like Spielman come draft day. However, trading Ngakoue away was very much a stupid move.
Foreman44

Boneheaded as we didn’t have the cap space to keep him..

Boneheaded because of the above reasoning ...How many-players are we going to lose because of no cap space.

Boneheaded as there was no guarantee we could or would be able to keep him beyond this year.if we had the space, signed him multi year. It should have been a Different story.

You build by the draft. Giving up a top 30 pick for a one year rental is not a move that should keep a GM around
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Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:56 am

Foreman44 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:35 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:29 am


What is boneheaded is trading him IMO. I think the trade to get him was an excellent trade. I'd take a DE of Ngakoue's caliber any day with our 2nd round pick.

As I mentioned in another thread, name the number one reason why the 49ers were in the SB last year.....their DL because they were absolutely dominant in just about every game. Going into next year with Hunter, Ngakoue and Pierce already gives us one of the better DLs in the NFL. I dont care if we stripped the rest of the roster, that DL is a hell of a start to what now looks like a rebuild. If we could've kept Ngakoue and let guys like Harris, Reiff and whoever else walk, I'm 100% fine with it. Not very often do you have two 25 year old DE's in their prime wreaking havoc along with one of the top run stuffers in the league.

I dont know if I will ever understand this move other than he's not one of "Zim's original guys". Because I know "his guys" will always be favored over the ones that arent.

Think about it.....name one guy since Zimmer has been here that he has flat out benched because he was playing bad? I literally cant name one. The only reason Brian O'Neill got the nod was because Hill got hurt. The only reason Cleveland got in at guard was because Samia and Elflein got "hurt". Elflein was never benched last year either. Our bum DTs have never been benched. Rhodes was never benched. Waynes was never benched back when he was struggling. Cousins has never been benched when he was struggling. They slowly snuck Jefferson into the lineup over Bisi but he just HAD to give Bisi the nod in the beginning of the year. Why? I swear he doesnt want to hurt anyones feelings. On a podcast the other day someone mentioned that they thought it was odd that all of the sudden Dru Samia ended up on the injury report. He thinks it was their way of saying, you suck and need to be pulled.

I'm just really getting sick of Zim's ways. Much more sick of that than I am Spielman because I still do like Spielman come draft day. However, trading Ngakoue away was very much a stupid move.
Foreman44

Boneheaded as we didn’t have the cap space to keep him..

Boneheaded because of the above reasoning ...How many-players are we going to lose because of no cap space.

Boneheaded as there was no guarantee we could or would be able to keep him beyond this year.if we had the space, signed him multi year. It should have been a Different story.

You build by the draft. Giving up a top 30 pick for a one year rental is not a move that should keep a GM around
And that's what Spielman has primarily done is build through the draft. That's always been his strategy. But I think that it was very doable to keep Ngakoue around if we got rid of the correct pieces. One being let Harris walk in FA, the other would be cutting or trading Reiff. Dumping unnecessary salaries, etc. They could've definitely made it work
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Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:01 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:56 am
Foreman44 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:35 am


Foreman44

Boneheaded as we didn’t have the cap space to keep him..

Boneheaded because of the above reasoning ...How many-players are we going to lose because of no cap space.

Boneheaded as there was no guarantee we could or would be able to keep him beyond this year.if we had the space, signed him multi year. It should have been a Different story.

You build by the draft. Giving up a top 30 pick for a one year rental is not a move that should keep a GM around
And that's what Spielman has primarily done is build through the draft. That's always been his strategy. But I think that it was very doable to keep Ngakoue around if we got rid of the correct pieces. One being let Harris walk in FA, the other would be cutting or trading Reiff. Dumping unnecessary salaries, etc. They could've definitely made it work
They could cut Reiff, Barr, Stephen and Rudy and would only have 14 million to sign free agents. To sign Ngakoue would take the majority of that cap and no one to play safety opposite Smith, no starting SAM, no starting 3 tech, guard, or LT. They could have done it, but should they have with so many holes?
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Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:00 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:01 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:56 am


And that's what Spielman has primarily done is build through the draft. That's always been his strategy. But I think that it was very doable to keep Ngakoue around if we got rid of the correct pieces. One being let Harris walk in FA, the other would be cutting or trading Reiff. Dumping unnecessary salaries, etc. They could've definitely made it work
They could cut Reiff, Barr, Stephen and Rudy and would only have 14 million to sign free agents. To sign Ngakoue would take the majority of that cap and no one to play safety opposite Smith, no starting SAM, no starting 3 tech, guard, or LT. They could have done it, but should they have with so many holes?
If we are rebuilding, why are we worrying about holes?

Also in regards to the positions, Stephen isnt a viable starting 3 tech regardless so that will be a hole no matter you do with him. Guard is also already a hole regardless and I would 100% plug in Cleveland at LT or at worst, move Oniell to LT and Cleveland to RT. As for SAM, I would just resign Wilson for cheap. He's actually played fairly well this year. I always harped on him but he definitely made me eat crow this year.

That would leave massive holes of:

RG
LG
3 tech
Safety
Maybe CB?

So yeah, we have quite a few picks again in 2021. I'm pretty sure we could mange addressing at least 3 of those in the draft with earlier picks.
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Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by Texas Vike » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:17 pm

:appl: :appl:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:43 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:55 am

I trust almost nothing that comes out of a coaches mouth. Once in a while I make an exception, but it is the exception. :lol:
Let me give you my perspective. This comes from many years as a journalist, including sports journalism.

It isn't coach-speak just because a coach says it. I always look at WHAT they say and the context in which they say it. I also look at a coach's history. For example, Steve Spurrier had a history of being extremely quotable. He also gave you his unvarnished opinion, even if it didn't place his team in the best light. He was the total antithesis of coach speak.

Mike Zimmer, on the other hand, comes from the Bill Parcells school of All Journalists Are Tools and I'm Only Doing This Press Conference Because Management Says I Have To. Good journalists know when they're getting the runaround, and that's pretty much all you get from Zimmer. I rarely watch a Mike Zimmer presser because he doesn't say anything. He's just trying to get to the point where the PR guy says he can leave the room. In the case of Stephen, a typical answer from Zimmer would have been, "He does what we ask him to do."

But that's not what Andre Patterson said. He basically said, "Don't look at stats because we ask him to do things that don't show up on stat sheets. We ask him to keep offensive linemen from getting to the second level. And if you don't believe me, ask Eric Kendricks about it." To me, that's a totally different thing. Instead of giving an answer that's obviously just a means of getting the interview off the checklist, Patterson actually tells you the specifics of why he thinks Stephen does a good job.

Agree with it or don't agree with it. That's your prerogative. But I would encourage you to take a look at the content before you dismiss everything a coach says.

EDIT: Have you ever noticed that Mike Zimmer almost never does a one-on-one interview? If he does, it's only with Vikings.com people who will lob softballs at him ... not the press or TV at large. That's because (I believe) he can get away with coach speak in a press conference, but in a one-on-one, the interviewer (if he or she is any good) would challenge him on coach speak and non-answers. The Vikings know better than to put him in that position, so they don't ask him to do it.
:appl:
Excellent post, Kapp. Zimmer is terrible at handling press conferences. Whenever I point it out, fans are quick to defend him and throw reporters under the bus for supposed "gotcha" questions. The truth of the matter is that Zimmer has an antagonistic attitude towards reporters. It seems to me that he views them as spies or as a nuisance. I don't doubt that some of them are under-informed, lazy, and click-bait seekers, and that must get tiring, but reporters are also a gateway or bridge between the fans and the team. I'd love for our next coach to at least be somewhat competent with speaking to the press in a respectful and non-antagonistic manner.
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Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by psjordan » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:53 pm

Texas Vike wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:17 pm
The truth of the matter is that Zimmer has an antagonistic attitude towards reporters. It seems to me that he views them as spies or as a nuisance.
So? And I don't mean that in a snarky way, but maybe he's been burned a bunch? Maybe he's trying to protect others in the organization (players, coaches, staff) by cutting subjects off? I could never figure out ONE good thing that came out of a coach opening up and talking to a reporter. Sure at the NFL level it's different with billions at stake, and maybe the owner has a say, but what does any coach have to gain by prattling on, other than laying groundwork for a possible "next career"?

I mean, if you don't win games it does not really matter if you show that you like the press or not. And it's a lot harder to like the press when you are 1-5. I listened to Matt Nagy the other day and honestly I could listen to him talk football all day long. Zim, not so much. But personally, I simply don't care if a HC is effusive with the press. Nagy was certainly entertaining, but if he's my coach I care much more about his record. That's not "defending Zim" for being terse with the press, that's "I'd rather have him worry about/be good at other stuff".
Texas Vike wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:17 pm
I'd love for our next coach to at least be somewhat competent with speaking to the press in a respectful and non-antagonistic manner.
And I'd love our next coach to win Superbowls! :D Sorry, couldn't resist, I know that was not your implication or the context you put it in...
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Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by Texas Vike » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:09 pm

psjordan wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:53 pm
Texas Vike wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:17 pm
The truth of the matter is that Zimmer has an antagonistic attitude towards reporters. It seems to me that he views them as spies or as a nuisance.
So? And I don't mean that in a snarky way, but maybe he's been burned a bunch? Maybe he's trying to protect others in the organization (players, coaches, staff) by cutting subjects off? I could never figure out ONE good thing that came out of a coach opening up and talking to a reporter. Sure at the NFL level it's different with billions at stake, and maybe the owner has a say, but what does any coach have to gain by prattling on, other than laying groundwork for a possible "next career"?

I mean, if you don't win games it does not really matter if you show that you like the press or not. And it's a lot harder to like the press when you are 1-5. I listened to Matt Nagy the other day and honestly I could listen to him talk football all day long. Zim, not so much. But personally, I simply don't care if a HC is effusive with the press. Nagy was certainly entertaining, but if he's my coach I care much more about his record. That's not "defending Zim" for being terse with the press, that's "I'd rather have him worry about/be good at other stuff".
Texas Vike wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:17 pm
I'd love for our next coach to at least be somewhat competent with speaking to the press in a respectful and non-antagonistic manner.
And I'd love our next coach to win Superbowls! :D Sorry, couldn't resist, I know that was not your implication or the context you put it in...
Who said anything about being effusive? Who said anything about "prattling on"? I certainly didn't and would not want either of those characteristics in my coach. Yes, newsflash, being a coach, politician, CEO, President of anything, etc. requires careful speech and information is something to be protected. Discretion is extremely important.

Knowing how to handle oneself with the press is an important part of being a coach in the NFL in 2020. Period. Zimmer is horribly incompetent at this aspect of the job. I think it is a fair assessment to also question whether he has interpersonal communication problems in general. He seems to like to throw OCs under the bus. His handling of our kickers is notoriously bad. A good leader knows how to communicate with all the subjects that come under his/her purview. Zimmer is an utter failure on this important point.
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