Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8148
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 796

Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:30 pm

From ESPN:
Ngakoue had a pass-rush win rate of 21% as an edge rusher last season, per NFL Next Gen Stats, which ranked higher than Griffen (17%) and Hunter (15%), Ngakoue's new teammate.
According to Andre Patterson, Ngakoue will play right DE, as he did on more than 60% of his snaps in Jacksonville. Hunter will return to his normal left DE position, with Ifeadi Odenigbo playing inside on passing downs.
2 x
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.

User avatar
VikingsVictorious
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1634
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 399

Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:31 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:04 pm
RandyMoss84 wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:42 pm


Just because Andre and Eric has opinions does not mean Shamar is good
So you know more than they do?

Sorry. I had no idea.
It's Coach Speak Kapp. They will say good stuff all the time up to the point they cut or trade the player. You can't act like Randy's opinion is less valid than what those guys say.
0 x

User avatar
VikingsVictorious
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1634
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 399

Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:32 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:30 pm
From ESPN:
Ngakoue had a pass-rush win rate of 21% as an edge rusher last season, per NFL Next Gen Stats, which ranked higher than Griffen (17%) and Hunter (15%), Ngakoue's new teammate.
According to Andre Patterson, Ngakoue will play right DE, as he did on more than 60% of his snaps in Jacksonville. Hunter will return to his normal left DE position, with Ifeadi Odenigbo playing inside on passing downs.
I like Odenigbo inside on passing downs. Go Vikings. :rock: :bowdown: :smilevike: :banana: :appl: :ripple:
0 x

User avatar
VikingsVictorious
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1634
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 399

Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:34 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:08 pm
Why am I not surprised that 90% of the most pessimistic fan base on the planet hates this trade?
Votes on multiple sites I have checked are vastly in favor of the trade. On daily Norseman it's like 400 A+ votes and 8 F Votes. Almost nothing but A A- and B+ in-between. I've voiced my concerns, but I don't know enough to like it or not yet.
0 x

User avatar
vikeinmontana
Career Elite Player
Posts: 2904
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:23 pm
x 45

Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by vikeinmontana » Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:48 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:34 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:08 pm
Why am I not surprised that 90% of the most pessimistic fan base on the planet hates this trade?
Votes on multiple sites I have checked are vastly in favor of the trade. On daily Norseman it's like 400 A+ votes and 8 F Votes. Almost nothing but A A- and B+ in-between. I've voiced my concerns, but I don't know enough to like it or not yet.
That’s always how it goes. No one hates Vikes moves and acquisitions more than Vikes fans. We’re just jaded is all.

Statistically we just added one of the better DE’s in the league. To pair with one of the better DE’s in the league. Who are both in their mid 20’s. On a defense that is already considered one of the best in the league.

I’m not sure how you couldn’t be at least a bit excited about this move and our defense as a whole.
1 x
i'm ready for a beer.

User avatar
RandyMoss84
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 955
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:12 pm
x 315

Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by RandyMoss84 » Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:53 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:52 pm
RandyMoss84 wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:42 pm


Just because Andre and Eric has opinions does not mean Shamar is good
Agreed. What are they going to say? He really sucks?
Yeah, at least they could be honest
0 x

User avatar
vikeinmontana
Career Elite Player
Posts: 2904
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:23 pm
x 45

Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by vikeinmontana » Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:54 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:42 am
vikeinmontana wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:37 am


I agree. Anyone paying attention should be ecstatic about this move. I assume the plan is to sign him long term after this season. But he just made our defense very good I think.
No reason to be ecstatic about signing a player for one year and giving up very large draft pick compensation. He was offered $19 million a year and turned it down. For us to sign him long term will probably be $20 million per year or more. That will make him paid 5 million per year more than Hunter who's injury is being rumored to be contract related.
Well we might not be signing him for just one year. Our front office, while obviously not perfect, has done pretty well. I imagine before making this move both sides felt the possibility of him being around for more than a year was there.

While he was offered 19 and refused, and its easy to assume it’d take 20+ a year to get him, that’s not necessarily fact. You need to take in consideration he hated everything from Jacksonville from the top down. Who’s to say they couldn’t have offered him 30 and he’d turn it down? Doesn’t mean it’d take 31+ for us to keep him.

Finally, I don’t look in the future or the money too much when deciding if I like a move or not as a fan. We don’t have about 98% of the info needed to worry too much about that. I take trades and draft pics at face value. This is a great young talent added to a pretty good defense already. I’m excited about the prospects.
1 x
i'm ready for a beer.

StumpHunter
Career Elite Player
Posts: 2024
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:55 am
x 298

Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by StumpHunter » Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:54 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:04 pm
RandyMoss84 wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:42 pm


Just because Andre and Eric has opinions does not mean Shamar is good
So you know more than they do?

Sorry. I had no idea.
Kubiak said Elflein was good last year at guard. Do you agree or do you think you know more than he does?

Or do you think he is talking up his starter who he would probably like to replace, but has no other real options?


Stephen is like the 51st paid DT on average in the NFL. Do you think the Vikings paid him that because he gave them a deal, or because that is about what he is worth? Was Seattle wrong when they cut him in 2019?

I can post the stats that say he was at best a below average DT if you like. I will start here.

Image

Teams chose to double Joseph who is not a pass rusher versus the 3 technique Stephen.

Here are his pressure numbers:
SACKS 1
HURRIES 4
HITS 1
TOTAL PRESSURES 6

Here are Joseph's in comparsion, who was doubled most of the time:

SACKS 3
HURRIES 10
HITS 3
TOTAL PRESSURES 16

What about against the run? Maybe he is good there? Nope.
Stephen not being doubled:
SOLO TACKLES 16
ASSISTS 8
FORCED FUMBLES 1
STOPS 11

Joseph being double teamed:

SOLO TACKLES 27
ASSISTS 14
FORCED FUMBLES 0
STOPS 24

That is Joseph in a down year destroying Stephen's production.

I get your point about the coaches choosing him over another option, but sometimes coaches go with the safer play versus the guy with actual potential to be a positive at a spot. Isn't that the argument for why Zimmer kept Hughes and Hill on the bench behind Waynes and Rhodes despite them "being clearly better"?
1 x

User avatar
RandyMoss84
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 955
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:12 pm
x 315

Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by RandyMoss84 » Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:55 pm

vikeinmontana wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:48 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:34 pm

Votes on multiple sites I have checked are vastly in favor of the trade. On daily Norseman it's like 400 A+ votes and 8 F Votes. Almost nothing but A A- and B+ in-between. I've voiced my concerns, but I don't know enough to like it or not yet.
That’s always how it goes. No one hates Vikes moves and acquisitions more than Vikes fans. We’re just jaded is all.

Statistically we just added one of the better DE’s in the league. To pair with one of the better DE’s in the league. Who are both in their mid 20’s. On a defense that is already considered one of the best in the league.

I’m not sure how you couldn’t be at least a bit excited about this move and our defense as a whole.
I am not excited about a whole because I am more nervous about the young secondary
0 x

StumpHunter
Career Elite Player
Posts: 2024
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:55 am
x 298

Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by StumpHunter » Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:06 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:35 pm
You make some valid points. However, maybe I’m bias but having Andre Patterson as your DL coach is a whole different animal. Patterson is among the elite in terms of positional coaches (even though he’s now a co-DC). I mean hunter is a perfect example. A guy that had nearly 0 production in college to being the quickest player ever to 50 sacks in the nfl. There’s no doubt in my mind that Patterson gets the max out of Ngakoue and I wouldn’t be surprised one bit that his run defense improves as well. I think it’s an excellent trade. And we only lost one pick next year out of the 12-13 we already had.
I would feel better about Patterson having an impact on the guy if he had more than 2 weeks before the season started. My hope was that Hunter being on the other side of him would be the actual difference maker for him, but I found this while looking up double team stats for DTs.

Image

Ngakoue was above average at winning against double teams and was doubled about the same as Griffen, but the thing I am concerned about is how often Josh Allen was doubled last year and Ngakoue still wasn't all that great.

Hopefully a change in scenery coupled with being healthy gets him back to 2017 levels, but if it doesn't, this was a bad trade.

Side note, how do you not have the name of the Hunter on your chart? More proof he is the most underrated DE in football. It does look like Griffen was doubled more than Hunter though (if I guessed right based on the small pictures), which is surprising.
1 x

User avatar
VikingsVictorious
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1634
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 399

Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:40 pm

vikeinmontana wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:48 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:34 pm

Votes on multiple sites I have checked are vastly in favor of the trade. On daily Norseman it's like 400 A+ votes and 8 F Votes. Almost nothing but A A- and B+ in-between. I've voiced my concerns, but I don't know enough to like it or not yet.
That’s always how it goes. No one hates Vikes moves and acquisitions more than Vikes fans. We’re just jaded is all.

Statistically we just added one of the better DE’s in the league. To pair with one of the better DE’s in the league. Who are both in their mid 20’s. On a defense that is already considered one of the best in the league.

I’m not sure how you couldn’t be at least a bit excited about this move and our defense as a whole.
You misunderstood. They love the trade.
0 x

User avatar
VikingsVictorious
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1634
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 399

Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:44 pm

vikeinmontana wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:54 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:42 am

No reason to be ecstatic about signing a player for one year and giving up very large draft pick compensation. He was offered $19 million a year and turned it down. For us to sign him long term will probably be $20 million per year or more. That will make him paid 5 million per year more than Hunter who's injury is being rumored to be contract related.
Well we might not be signing him for just one year. Our front office, while obviously not perfect, has done pretty well. I imagine before making this move both sides felt the possibility of him being around for more than a year was there.

While he was offered 19 and refused, and its easy to assume it’d take 20+ a year to get him, that’s not necessarily fact. You need to take in consideration he hated everything from Jacksonville from the top down. Who’s to say they couldn’t have offered him 30 and he’d turn it down? Doesn’t mean it’d take 31+ for us to keep him.

Finally, I don’t look in the future or the money too much when deciding if I like a move or not as a fan. We don’t have about 98% of the info needed to worry too much about that. I take trades and draft pics at face value. This is a great young talent added to a pretty good defense already. I’m excited about the prospects.
I'm excited also, but I'm being realistic. I thought the 19 million low ball offer the Jags made was what got him disgruntled in the first place. Maybe it was something else.
0 x

User avatar
VikingsVictorious
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1634
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 399

Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:00 pm

He took a $6 miiion pay cut.

YANNICK NGAKOUE
DL, MINNESOTA VIKINGS

Vikings signed DE Yannick Ngakoue to a one-year, $12 million contract.
Ngakoue was set to make $17.8 million on his franchise tender in Jacksonville. He missed out on nearly $6 million just to get a new team. Ngakoue's biggest hangup appears to have been the Jaguars organization, and not the short-term tag, based on his new deal. Tom Pelissero reports that his contract deal does not include a no-tag clause so the Vikings could franchise him next year. He'll be playing to earn a multi-year contract from Minnesota this year. Ngakoue has recorded at least eight sacks in each of his four NFL seasons. Hitting eight sacks for the fifth time should earn him the type of money he's looking for.

SOURCE: Tom Pelissero on Twitter
Aug 30, 2020, 7:55 PM ET

I officially like the deal now.
1 x

Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8023
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY
x 680

Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:19 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:06 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:35 pm
You make some valid points. However, maybe I’m bias but having Andre Patterson as your DL coach is a whole different animal. Patterson is among the elite in terms of positional coaches (even though he’s now a co-DC). I mean hunter is a perfect example. A guy that had nearly 0 production in college to being the quickest player ever to 50 sacks in the nfl. There’s no doubt in my mind that Patterson gets the max out of Ngakoue and I wouldn’t be surprised one bit that his run defense improves as well. I think it’s an excellent trade. And we only lost one pick next year out of the 12-13 we already had.
I would feel better about Patterson having an impact on the guy if he had more than 2 weeks before the season started. My hope was that Hunter being on the other side of him would be the actual difference maker for him, but I found this while looking up double team stats for DTs.

Image

Ngakoue was above average at winning against double teams and was doubled about the same as Griffen, but the thing I am concerned about is how often Josh Allen was doubled last year and Ngakoue still wasn't all that great.

Hopefully a change in scenery coupled with being healthy gets him back to 2017 levels, but if it doesn't, this was a bad trade.

Side note, how do you not have the name of the Hunter on your chart? More proof he is the most underrated DE in football. It does look like Griffen was doubled more than Hunter though (if I guessed right based on the small pictures), which is surprising.
I feel like you think any trade Spielman makes is somehow a bad trade. Bottom line is, if he produces and plays well, it was a good trade. If he flops, I guess it was a "bad trade". A little chart that isnt even listing Danielle Hunter on there isnt going to give you the answer on Ngakoue. But either way, any trade is technically a "gamble". But I think I'd have a hard time ever saying this was a "bad trade". Ngakoue isnt a one year wonder, or even a two year. He's as consistent as they come in terms of rushing the passer and has done it for 4 consecutive years. So do you really blame Zim and Spielman for wanting that? Its not like anyone is sitting here saying "hmm, I wonder if he will crap the bed". There should be zero reason this guy doesnt produce given he stays healthy. If he somehow flopped, Ngakoue did that to himself. The main thing it's about is consistency and if you look at the last 4 years (from a pass rushing standpoint), Ngakoue has been just that.
1 x
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri

User avatar
VikingsVictorious
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1634
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 399

Re: Yannick Ngakoue to Vikings

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:25 pm

I keep hearing everybody today talking about somebody named Beaker? Who the hell is Beaker?
0 x