Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:07 am

S197 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:03 am
His athleticism leads him to be a good run blocker in a scheme that plays to his strength. But his pass protection is sub-par due to his questionable balance and leverage at times. So I split the difference and said he was average. I was probably too harsh on his ceiling, he does have the chance to be very good but he needs more work to get there than some think.

His balance issues as an example: https://streamable.com/dotn6d

The second clip reinforces my point about giving up sacks isn’t a great stat. He’s clearly beat on the play, it’s just he’s .5 seconds less worse than the TE.
Yeah like VV said below, finding a play where he was beat doesn’t mean much. You can find plenty of those plays for any tackle in the nfl. Even the elite of the elite. Bottom line is, he’s keeping our QB upright and not allowing sacks. The fact that he was one of 3 tackles in the HISTORY of the nfl to not allow a sack in his rookie year says something about his pass pro. Especially given the only two guys to do it were Joe Thomas and Ryan Clady. No less this year it took him to the SF game to finally give one up. His pass pro is hovering on the line oh well above average to elite if you ask me. Especially given the fact that he’s accomplishing this feat with a non-scrambling type QB
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VikingsVictorious
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by VikingsVictorious » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:31 am

S197 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:10 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:21 am

Every OL is going to be beat on some plays. An every down RT like O'Neill will be playing close to 1000 snaps a year right. So you finding a play where he got beat doesn't mean much to me. Out of 1000 snaps let's say 500 pass protection snaps he allowed the QB to be sacked on one of them. I can happily live with that. According to you pass pro is his weakness. His run blocking must be sensational.
I see the Vikings O Line being Elite in three years. Not good, but Elite. Mark this post and let's revisit it in three years. That will be the 23 season. It will be top 10 for the 22 season so let's check in on that one.
I hope you’re right. I’d even settle for an above average line. I do like that Rick has been making a more concerted effort at the OL in recent drafts.
It's that concerted effort you mention that has me believing in the ascendance.
If we're 10th that is in the above average to quite good range. To be elite which I see coming soon to a Vikings team near you we have to be at least top 5 maybe top 3.
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by VikingsVictorious » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:33 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:07 am
S197 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:03 am
His athleticism leads him to be a good run blocker in a scheme that plays to his strength. But his pass protection is sub-par due to his questionable balance and leverage at times. So I split the difference and said he was average. I was probably too harsh on his ceiling, he does have the chance to be very good but he needs more work to get there than some think.

His balance issues as an example: https://streamable.com/dotn6d

The second clip reinforces my point about giving up sacks isn’t a great stat. He’s clearly beat on the play, it’s just he’s .5 seconds less worse than the TE.
Yeah like VV said below, finding a play where he was beat doesn’t mean much. You can find plenty of those plays for any tackle in the nfl. Even the elite of the elite. Bottom line is, he’s keeping our QB upright and not allowing sacks. The fact that he was one of 3 tackles in the HISTORY of the nfl to not allow a sack in his rookie year says something about his pass pro. Especially given the only two guys to do it were Joe Thomas and Ryan Clady. No less this year it took him to the SF game to finally give one up. His pass pro is hovering on the line oh well above average to elite if you ask me. Especially given the fact that he’s accomplishing this feat with a non-scrambling type QB
Scrambling QBs are actually historically the ones who get sacked the most. :shock:
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:43 am

S197 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:10 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:21 am

Every OL is going to be beat on some plays. An every down RT like O'Neill will be playing close to 1000 snaps a year right. So you finding a play where he got beat doesn't mean much to me. Out of 1000 snaps let's say 500 pass protection snaps he allowed the QB to be sacked on one of them. I can happily live with that. According to you pass pro is his weakness. His run blocking must be sensational.
I see the Vikings O Line being Elite in three years. Not good, but Elite. Mark this post and let's revisit it in three years. That will be the 23 season. It will be top 10 for the 22 season so let's check in on that one.
I hope you’re right. I’d even settle for an above average line. I do like that Rick has been making a more concerted effort at the OL in recent drafts.
It was very nearly average last year statistically, with a good number of the pressure stats coming on naked bootlegs and designed screens to allow pressure get to the QB. Top 10 isn't even good enough, it needs to be elite like VV says. I am not sure where he sees the talent to get us to that elite spot, but elite is what we need.
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by VikingsVictorious » Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:05 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:43 am
S197 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:10 pm


I hope you’re right. I’d even settle for an above average line. I do like that Rick has been making a more concerted effort at the OL in recent drafts.
It was very nearly average last year statistically, with a good number of the pressure stats coming on naked bootlegs and designed screens to allow pressure get to the QB. Top 10 isn't even good enough, it needs to be elite like VV says. I am not sure where he sees the talent to get us to that elite spot, but elite is what we need.
I see the concerted effort of investing high draft picks and plentiful draft picks on the O Line over the last several years coming to Fruition. I see all of O'Neil, Bradbury and Cleveland becoming pro bowl linemen. I see Udoh and Samia becoming fully adequate OL starters. :rock: :govikes: :appl: :banana:
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S197
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by S197 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:06 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:07 am
S197 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:03 am
His athleticism leads him to be a good run blocker in a scheme that plays to his strength. But his pass protection is sub-par due to his questionable balance and leverage at times. So I split the difference and said he was average. I was probably too harsh on his ceiling, he does have the chance to be very good but he needs more work to get there than some think.

His balance issues as an example: https://streamable.com/dotn6d

The second clip reinforces my point about giving up sacks isn’t a great stat. He’s clearly beat on the play, it’s just he’s .5 seconds less worse than the TE.
Yeah like VV said below, finding a play where he was beat doesn’t mean much. You can find plenty of those plays for any tackle in the nfl. Even the elite of the elite. Bottom line is, he’s keeping our QB upright and not allowing sacks. The fact that he was one of 3 tackles in the HISTORY of the nfl to not allow a sack in his rookie year says something about his pass pro. Especially given the only two guys to do it were Joe Thomas and Ryan Clady. No less this year it took him to the SF game to finally give one up. His pass pro is hovering on the line oh well above average to elite if you ask me. Especially given the fact that he’s accomplishing this feat with a non-scrambling type QB
The clip wasn't meant as a showcase that the guy sucks, it was just to show an example of where he can improve his balance. Balance, leverage, and hand position are the 3 things he needs to work on. I think if you read a lot of breakdowns on O'Neill you'll see others coming to similar conclusions. Hand position is the one that's easiest to fix with proper coaching. The other two will be a little more difficult but not impossible.

There's no way he's at a Joe Thomas level of pass protection. That stat is inflated by the overall poor pass protection capabilities of the line. As the clip shows, he didn't allow a sack on that play but it's really a technicality as he was beat.

His strength is in run blocking. His pass protection needs work. You don't need to believe me, you can check PFF and many other analysis. He struggles with bull rushers. He's at a place where he has played better than expected and can be quite good. But I still think people are crowning him as this elite tackle way too early.
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by S197 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:44 pm

Not really sure why the topic was locked. If it was on accident or maybe because I started to stray off-topic. Anyway, I'm unlocking for now as I don't want to make it seem like I want to get the last word in and then lock a topic.

I think there's so little news going on right now, a little off-topic debate is okay but if Cliff or Jim want to re-lock, I will defer to them.
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Cliff
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by Cliff » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:22 pm

I didn't lock it so I'm fine with that.
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by VikingsVictorious » Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:16 pm

Open again YES!!
Zimmer, Spielman, Cousins and Cook all rock. Go Vikings. Skol :govikes: :bowdown: :appl: :banana: :popcorn: :v): :thumbsup:
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by PacificNorseWest » Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:27 am

It's nice thar the Vikings have stability at all of GM, HC and QB like this for the first time in years. Keep the focus on trying to bring a Championship to Minnesota instead the next QB FA or scheme change with a new coach.
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