Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by RandyMoss84 » Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:22 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:42 am
RandyMoss84 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:04 pm


He does not deserve an extension, he has been here for 14 years and no Superbowl yet
Have been absent from here for a while and been super busy but trying to get back on when I can.

As for Spielman, I 100% think he deserves an extension. Again, we wouldnt have the talent we do on this team if it wasnt for Spielman and even after what we've lost this offseason talent wise, this is still one of the more overall talented teams in the NFL with what looks like a bright future with a solid looking draft class and another 13 picks already next year.

Spielmans job is to bring in talent. He's not the coach. He isnt out there playing. He has done his job better than a good 80% of GMs in this league since Zimmer has been here. When he finally took over as GM, he's continued to bring in talent to this team and even more so since Zim has been here, especially via the draft.

I mean there has been:

Cook
Mattison
Diggs
Thielen (who he brought in on a workout as an UDFA and kept year after year, when he could have easily cut him)
Jefferson (should be a big time player for us for a long time)
Irv
Bradbury
Oneill
Cleveland (Jury is out but I like the potential there, similar to Oneill)
Hunter
Lynch (will be a stud IMO)
Odenigbo
Kendricks
Barr
Rhodes
Waynes
Alexander
Gladney (solid pick)
Dantzler (who for whatever reason I think will be our next shutdown CB and maybe be even better than Gladney)
Harris
Smith

Sure we can sit here and say he was "part of" the Ponder pick, you can try and blame him for Kalil which is a terrible argument, you can complain about Cousins contract, etc. But you can also complain about any other GM and their "bad moves".

But please tell me how many GMs in this league have brought in the talent he did above?? I can tell you there havent been many. He's been long considered one of the better GMs in the NFL and I 100% agree. I dont care what he did prior to 2012, I dont care what he did in Miami, I care about what he's done to fill this roster with talent, and he's done a damn good job at that if you ask me.
He bought in all the talent for 14 years and no Superbowl yet so no, he does not deserve an extension
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by S197 » Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:32 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:42 am
RandyMoss84 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:04 pm


He does not deserve an extension, he has been here for 14 years and no Superbowl yet
Have been absent from here for a while and been super busy but trying to get back on when I can.

As for Spielman, I 100% think he deserves an extension. Again, we wouldnt have the talent we do on this team if it wasnt for Spielman and even after what we've lost this offseason talent wise, this is still one of the more overall talented teams in the NFL with what looks like a bright future with a solid looking draft class and another 13 picks already next year.

Spielmans job is to bring in talent. He's not the coach. He isnt out there playing. He has done his job better than a good 80% of GMs in this league since Zimmer has been here. When he finally took over as GM, he's continued to bring in talent to this team and even more so since Zim has been here, especially via the draft.

I mean there has been:

Cook
Mattison
Diggs
Thielen (who he brought in on a workout as an UDFA and kept year after year, when he could have easily cut him)
Jefferson (should be a big time player for us for a long time)
Irv
Bradbury
Oneill
Cleveland (Jury is out but I like the potential there, similar to Oneill)
Hunter
Lynch (will be a stud IMO)
Odenigbo
Kendricks
Barr
Rhodes
Waynes
Alexander
Gladney (solid pick)
Dantzler (who for whatever reason I think will be our next shutdown CB and maybe be even better than Gladney)
Harris
Smith

Sure we can sit here and say he was "part of" the Ponder pick, you can try and blame him for Kalil which is a terrible argument, you can complain about Cousins contract, etc. But you can also complain about any other GM and their "bad moves".

But please tell me how many GMs in this league have brought in the talent he did above?? I can tell you there havent been many. He's been long considered one of the better GMs in the NFL and I 100% agree. I dont care what he did prior to 2012, I dont care what he did in Miami, I care about what he's done to fill this roster with talent, and he's done a damn good job at that if you ask me.
PHP,

I hear what you're saying and I think you bring up a lot of valid points. But you have to admit, you're padding that list a fair amount. You have 5 guys on that list who haven't taken an NFL snap yet and a few guys with some pretty big question marks. I don't think Bradbury has proven anything yet nor has Odenigbo (other than he's a solid backup). Irv had a decent enough rookie year but he didn't exactly light the world on fire.

I think Rick has done a really good job at certain positions. He's found great value at DE with mid-round picks like Robison, Griffen, and Hunter. Trading for Jared Allen. His backups (Odenigo, Weatherly, etc.) were also good picks for where he got them. You could make the same argument for WR where he hasn't had the best luck in early rounds but he's hit some homers in late rounds and also found solid contributors in guys like Jarius Wright, etc.

I think his biggest blind spots are at OL and QB. Kalil, you know, I'm okay with that pick. None of those guys around that pick panned out and he was a promising prospect out of college. When you move Tyron Smith to RT, I can see why that would intrigue scouts. But Rick has really struggled greatly even if you discount that pick. I mean, after Hutchinson have we had any guard that's even remotely average? I think Brandon Fusco may be the best guard we've had, which speaks volumes. He is putting more emphasis on the line the last few drafts so I do give him credit there, but those picks need to pan out. Elflein is not looking good. Bradbury was a rookie but he struggled a lot. O'Neill, and I'm probably in the minority here, but I think he's just an average RT. It's just we haven't seen average in so long that he looks better than he really is. Or maybe more accurately, I don't think he has much of a higher ceiling.

QB we've discussed ad nauseum so I won't go there. I don't think Rick is a bad GM, my biggest fear is he and Zimmer are putting this team in this sort of Goldilocks situation where they're not bad but not great either. So the Vikings are a perpetual wild card team (+ or - a game depending on the season).
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by Rhodes Closed » Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:13 pm

RandyMoss84 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:22 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:42 am


Have been absent from here for a while and been super busy but trying to get back on when I can.

As for Spielman, I 100% think he deserves an extension. Again, we wouldnt have the talent we do on this team if it wasnt for Spielman and even after what we've lost this offseason talent wise, this is still one of the more overall talented teams in the NFL with what looks like a bright future with a solid looking draft class and another 13 picks already next year.

Spielmans job is to bring in talent. He's not the coach. He isnt out there playing. He has done his job better than a good 80% of GMs in this league since Zimmer has been here. When he finally took over as GM, he's continued to bring in talent to this team and even more so since Zim has been here, especially via the draft.

I mean there has been:

Cook
Mattison
Diggs
Thielen (who he brought in on a workout as an UDFA and kept year after year, when he could have easily cut him)
Jefferson (should be a big time player for us for a long time)
Irv
Bradbury
Oneill
Cleveland (Jury is out but I like the potential there, similar to Oneill)
Hunter
Lynch (will be a stud IMO)
Odenigbo
Kendricks
Barr
Rhodes
Waynes
Alexander
Gladney (solid pick)
Dantzler (who for whatever reason I think will be our next shutdown CB and maybe be even better than Gladney)
Harris
Smith

Sure we can sit here and say he was "part of" the Ponder pick, you can try and blame him for Kalil which is a terrible argument, you can complain about Cousins contract, etc. But you can also complain about any other GM and their "bad moves".

But please tell me how many GMs in this league have brought in the talent he did above?? I can tell you there havent been many. He's been long considered one of the better GMs in the NFL and I 100% agree. I dont care what he did prior to 2012, I dont care what he did in Miami, I care about what he's done to fill this roster with talent, and he's done a damn good job at that if you ask me.
He bought in all the talent for 14 years and no Superbowl yet so no, he does not deserve an extension
By your logic, nobody should have ever hired Andy Reid after he was fired in 2012. Just stop, this is embarrassing logic.
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by RandyMoss84 » Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:05 pm

Rhodes Closed wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:13 pm
RandyMoss84 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:22 pm


He bought in all the talent for 14 years and no Superbowl yet so no, he does not deserve an extension
By your logic, nobody should have ever hired Andy Reid after he was fired in 2012. Just stop, this is embarrassing logic.
That is a dumb comparison since Mr. Reid was never Vice President of Player Personnel and general manager
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by VikingsVictorious » Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:41 pm

RandyMoss84 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:05 pm
Rhodes Closed wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:13 pm


By your logic, nobody should have ever hired Andy Reid after he was fired in 2012. Just stop, this is embarrassing logic.
That is a dumb comparison since Mr. Reid was never Vice President of Player Personnel and general manager
RM you're not getting the point that just because a person hasn't won it yet it doesn't mean they won't in the future.
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by Rhodes Closed » Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:45 pm

RandyMoss84 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:05 pm
Rhodes Closed wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:13 pm


By your logic, nobody should have ever hired Andy Reid after he was fired in 2012. Just stop, this is embarrassing logic.
That is a dumb comparison since Mr. Reid was never Vice President of Player Personnel and general manager
Just as dumb as your argument that we should get rid of literally everyone and just pick the next "boy genius" because you know so much better than everyone else.
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by RandyMoss84 » Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:01 pm

Rhodes Closed wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:45 pm
RandyMoss84 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:05 pm


That is a dumb comparison since Mr. Reid was never Vice President of Player Personnel and general manager
Just as dumb as your argument that we should get rid of literally everyone and just pick the next "boy genius" because you know so much better than everyone else.
I mean why not? The Eagles did and they won the Superbowl
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by VikingsVictorious » Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:51 am

RandyMoss84 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:01 pm
Rhodes Closed wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:45 pm


Just as dumb as your argument that we should get rid of literally everyone and just pick the next "boy genius" because you know so much better than everyone else.
I mean why not? The Eagles did and they won the Superbowl
I'd very much prefer Andy Reid to Pederson.
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by Rhodes Closed » Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:41 am

RandyMoss84 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:01 pm
Rhodes Closed wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:45 pm


Just as dumb as your argument that we should get rid of literally everyone and just pick the next "boy genius" because you know so much better than everyone else.
I mean why not? The Eagles did and they won the Superbowl
Oh yeah, every single coach out there that is young is the next boy genius, my man. We should have made DeFillipo head coach over Zimmer since he clearly was a guy that everybody said was gonna lead the league to a new era. Let's go sign joe schmoe from College XYZ because he knows how to run a College Offense and knows nothing about an NFL offense.

You know who we'd be more likely to get than the next greatest head coach of all time? We'd get the guy that Zimmer hates more than anybody else in football. We'd likelier get the next Bobby Petrino.
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:45 am

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:51 am
RandyMoss84 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:01 pm


I mean why not? The Eagles did and they won the Superbowl
I'd very much prefer Andy Reid to Pederson.
Correct.

The Eagles had good coaching in 2017, but the reason they won it all was because they were the most talented team in football that year. Pederson played a role in acquiring some of that talent, but it was Roseman who was the final say in who the team acquired, similar to how it is Spielman who ends up making the final decision at who the Vikings acquire.

Reid is to offense what Zimmer is to defense. You give Zimmer the best QB in football he will win it all, just like Reid won it all when he got the best QB in football.
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by S197 » Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:47 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:45 am
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:51 am


I'd very much prefer Andy Reid to Pederson.
Correct.

The Eagles had good coaching in 2017, but the reason they won it all was because they were the most talented team in football that year. Pederson played a role in acquiring some of that talent, but it was Roseman who was the final say in who the team acquired, similar to how it is Spielman who ends up making the final decision at who the Vikings acquire.

Reid is to offense what Zimmer is to defense. You give Zimmer the best QB in football he will win it all, just like Reid won it all when he got the best QB in football.
Your chances of getting the best QB in football is effectively zero if you never take a chance and draft QBs in the hopes of finding said player.

That obviously is more a Rick problem than Zimmer but it's still a problem.
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by VikingsVictorious » Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:26 pm

S197 wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:47 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:45 am


Correct.

The Eagles had good coaching in 2017, but the reason they won it all was because they were the most talented team in football that year. Pederson played a role in acquiring some of that talent, but it was Roseman who was the final say in who the team acquired, similar to how it is Spielman who ends up making the final decision at who the Vikings acquire.

Reid is to offense what Zimmer is to defense. You give Zimmer the best QB in football he will win it all, just like Reid won it all when he got the best QB in football.
Your chances of getting the best QB in football is effectively zero if you never take a chance and draft QBs in the hopes of finding said player.

That obviously is more a Rick problem than Zimmer but it's still a problem.
A teams chances of getting the best QB with any pick is incredibly low. It is doubtful that Burrow ever becomes the best QB.
Should the Vikings have drafted Love instead of Jefferson or when he slid to 25 should we have taken him? I think that chance of him becoming the best QB in the NFL was less than 1%. I'd rather go for Jefferson and Gladney than make the very low percentage play. When the right QB is available at the right cost I'm certain that Rick will make that pick. With hindsight everybody should have drafted Mahomes. We don't have that luxury. We can chase after the potential superstar QB like chickens with our heads cut off year after year, but when we finally hit on the pick our team could be so bad that the great QB will be wasted.
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:18 pm

S197 wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:47 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:45 am


Correct.

The Eagles had good coaching in 2017, but the reason they won it all was because they were the most talented team in football that year. Pederson played a role in acquiring some of that talent, but it was Roseman who was the final say in who the team acquired, similar to how it is Spielman who ends up making the final decision at who the Vikings acquire.

Reid is to offense what Zimmer is to defense. You give Zimmer the best QB in football he will win it all, just like Reid won it all when he got the best QB in football.
Your chances of getting the best QB in football is effectively zero if you never take a chance and draft QBs in the hopes of finding said player.

That obviously is more a Rick problem than Zimmer but it's still a problem.
I don't think Zimmer or Reid need the best QB in football to win it all. Like most SB winning coaches, they probably need a top 5 one, but not THE best.

My point was that we think Reid is a great coach now that he won it all with Mahomes, but is it really that hard to win it all with Patrick Mahomes at QB? I do give Reid a ton of credit for trading up and getting Mahomes when most coaches would be content with a Kirk Cousins level...errr Alex Smith level QB, and maybe that is the biggest difference between Reid and Zimmer and why one has a ring as a HC and the other doesn't.
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by VikingsVictorious » Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:32 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:18 pm
S197 wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:47 pm


Your chances of getting the best QB in football is effectively zero if you never take a chance and draft QBs in the hopes of finding said player.

That obviously is more a Rick problem than Zimmer but it's still a problem.
I don't think Zimmer or Reid need the best QB in football to win it all. Like most SB winning coaches, they probably need a top 5 one, but not THE best.

My point was that we think Reid is a great coach now that he won it all with Mahomes, but is it really that hard to win it all with Patrick Mahomes at QB? I do give Reid a ton of credit for trading up and getting Mahomes when most coaches would be content with a Kirk Cousins level...errr Alex Smith level QB, and maybe that is the biggest difference between Reid and Zimmer and why one has a ring as a HC and the other doesn't.
So you're saying Zimmer is going to win it all. Yessssssssss!!!! :rock: :govikes: :bowdown: :banana: :appl:
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Re: Vikings Extend Mike Zimmer

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:58 pm

RandyMoss84 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:22 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:42 am


Have been absent from here for a while and been super busy but trying to get back on when I can.

As for Spielman, I 100% think he deserves an extension. Again, we wouldnt have the talent we do on this team if it wasnt for Spielman and even after what we've lost this offseason talent wise, this is still one of the more overall talented teams in the NFL with what looks like a bright future with a solid looking draft class and another 13 picks already next year.

Spielmans job is to bring in talent. He's not the coach. He isnt out there playing. He has done his job better than a good 80% of GMs in this league since Zimmer has been here. When he finally took over as GM, he's continued to bring in talent to this team and even more so since Zim has been here, especially via the draft.

I mean there has been:

Cook
Mattison
Diggs
Thielen (who he brought in on a workout as an UDFA and kept year after year, when he could have easily cut him)
Jefferson (should be a big time player for us for a long time)
Irv
Bradbury
Oneill
Cleveland (Jury is out but I like the potential there, similar to Oneill)
Hunter
Lynch (will be a stud IMO)
Odenigbo
Kendricks
Barr
Rhodes
Waynes
Alexander
Gladney (solid pick)
Dantzler (who for whatever reason I think will be our next shutdown CB and maybe be even better than Gladney)
Harris
Smith

Sure we can sit here and say he was "part of" the Ponder pick, you can try and blame him for Kalil which is a terrible argument, you can complain about Cousins contract, etc. But you can also complain about any other GM and their "bad moves".

But please tell me how many GMs in this league have brought in the talent he did above?? I can tell you there havent been many. He's been long considered one of the better GMs in the NFL and I 100% agree. I dont care what he did prior to 2012, I dont care what he did in Miami, I care about what he's done to fill this roster with talent, and he's done a damn good job at that if you ask me.
He bought in all the talent for 14 years and no Superbowl yet so no, he does not deserve an extension
As I said, Rick Spielman is not the coach. His job is to bring in talent via the draft and free agency and he's done that at a much better rate than most GMs in the league.
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