Disbanding the police dept? Effect on Vikings games?

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Re: Disbanding the police dept? Effect on Vikings games?

Post by VikingsVictorious » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:42 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:41 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/disba ... index.html
A smaller city disbanded their police department and created a new one. Crime cut in half due to correcting the police corruption.

Most that are in favor of defunding the police, cite they would replace some of the services with alternative services. I read somewhere that 3/4ths of the calls to 911 are for a combo of Fire and mental health emergencies. The plans are to take much of the funding that go to the police, stop them from responding to calls they are not trained to handle and set up teams of professionals to answer those calls. Let the police deal with crimes and take all of the other crap off their shoulders.
To me scrapping the police force you already have because some of them aren't great at their job is like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Reforming sounds good. I wish all police officers were required to take Mental Health first aid.
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Re: Disbanding the police dept? Effect on Vikings games?

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:23 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:39 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:34 pm


Blue Lives isn't a thing. It's a job. I wish people would stop trying to pretend it is. The whole Blue Lives Matter BS was simple to silence Black people complaining of police brutality. Sickening.
Police do a very dangerous job. Many die in the line of duty. Blue Lives is a very big thing and their safety on the job absolutely deserves consideration. There's video of a local Flagstaff cop being killed because he hesitated. It sucks that sometimes they don't hesitate when they should. Sometimes the answers are easy. Sometimes the answers are nearly impossible.
It is a job and therefore a choice. Police officers choose to be LEO. Black people are born Black. Where was BlueLivesMatter before BLM? The "movement" only arose when complaints of police brutality became more and more widespread. They only are present when people are voicing opposition to police brutality. The entire movement (no matter how pure it may seem on the surface) is nefarious. This from a guy that is dating a LEO and cares about her safety dearly.
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Re: Disbanding the police dept? Effect on Vikings games?

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:26 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:42 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:41 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/disba ... index.html
A smaller city disbanded their police department and created a new one. Crime cut in half due to correcting the police corruption.

Most that are in favor of defunding the police, cite they would replace some of the services with alternative services. I read somewhere that 3/4ths of the calls to 911 are for a combo of Fire and mental health emergencies. The plans are to take much of the funding that go to the police, stop them from responding to calls they are not trained to handle and set up teams of professionals to answer those calls. Let the police deal with crimes and take all of the other crap off their shoulders.
To me scrapping the police force you already have because some of them aren't great at their job is like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Reforming sounds good. I wish all police officers were required to take Mental Health first aid.
Somethings are not fixable in pieces. Some things require you to throw it all out and start again. Camden is proof that is can work. With LEO when you have someone that has been on the job 20 years, I doubt you are going to sway them to change the way they conduct business. I see it in the medical field. There are some doctors that rather retire than learn how to enter electronic orders.
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Re: Disbanding the police dept? Effect on Vikings games?

Post by VikingLord » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:26 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:42 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:41 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/disba ... index.html
A smaller city disbanded their police department and created a new one. Crime cut in half due to correcting the police corruption.

Most that are in favor of defunding the police, cite they would replace some of the services with alternative services. I read somewhere that 3/4ths of the calls to 911 are for a combo of Fire and mental health emergencies. The plans are to take much of the funding that go to the police, stop them from responding to calls they are not trained to handle and set up teams of professionals to answer those calls. Let the police deal with crimes and take all of the other crap off their shoulders.
To me scrapping the police force you already have because some of them aren't great at their job is like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Reforming sounds good. I wish all police officers were required to take Mental Health first aid.
I agree, especially when the vast majority of cops were probably as appalled as everyone else who watched the video of Floyd's death. There has to be a way to reform things so that there is accountability and the cops who abuse their authority are removed from the force or, better yet, never allowed to become police officers in the first place.
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Re: Disbanding the police dept? Effect on Vikings games?

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:31 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:30 pm
cogitator wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:09 pm


Please do point to that statistical evidence with a link.

Should be an interesting social experiment, and I look forward to observing it from a great distance.

I think the law of unintended consequences may come into play here.
https://www.latimes.com/science/science ... story.html
Wow, a 3 to 6% decrease in crime. Very meaningful.

Here is what happened in Baltimore:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatod ... /744741002

Triple the number of shootings in some neighborhoods and Baltimore became the most dangerous place in America.
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Re: Disbanding the police dept? Effect on Vikings games?

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:34 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:41 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/disba ... index.html
A smaller city disbanded their police department and created a new one. Crime cut in half due to correcting the police corruption.

Most that are in favor of defunding the police, cite they would replace some of the services with alternative services. I read somewhere that 3/4ths of the calls to 911 are for a combo of Fire and mental health emergencies. The plans are to take much of the funding that go to the police, stop them from responding to calls they are not trained to handle and set up teams of professionals to answer those calls. Let the police deal with crimes and take all of the other crap off their shoulders.
You realize the article you posted does not give an example of what they are trying to do in Minneapolis? That city ended up adding 150 new cops and they didn't dismantle their police force, they reformed it. Which I think we can all agree would be a great thing in Minneapolis.
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Re: Disbanding the police dept? Effect on Vikings games?

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:41 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:39 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:34 pm


Blue Lives isn't a thing. It's a job. I wish people would stop trying to pretend it is. The whole Blue Lives Matter BS was simple to silence Black people complaining of police brutality. Sickening.
Police do a very dangerous job. Many die in the line of duty. Blue Lives is a very big thing and their safety on the job absolutely deserves consideration. There's video of a local Flagstaff cop being killed because he hesitated. It sucks that sometimes they don't hesitate when they should. Sometimes the answers are easy. Sometimes the answers are nearly impossible.
Nah bruh!!! You aren't going to convince me that the killing of countless POC and Non-POC that are innocent, have no weapon, and did not propose a threat to police, is excused by a police officer that hesitated and died. LEO must change the way they interact with the public. They are too heavy-handed. What happened to the days of arresting people like people instead of tackling them to the ground. I am sure my perspective on this is different than yours as younger Black man. However, I wonder why people never believe POC that are telling them this is what LEO is like.
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Re: Disbanding the police dept? Effect on Vikings games?

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:45 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:34 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:41 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/disba ... index.html
A smaller city disbanded their police department and created a new one. Crime cut in half due to correcting the police corruption.

Most that are in favor of defunding the police, cite they would replace some of the services with alternative services. I read somewhere that 3/4ths of the calls to 911 are for a combo of Fire and mental health emergencies. The plans are to take much of the funding that go to the police, stop them from responding to calls they are not trained to handle and set up teams of professionals to answer those calls. Let the police deal with crimes and take all of the other crap off their shoulders.
You realize the article you posted does not give an example of what they are trying to do in Minneapolis? That city ended up adding 150 new cops and they didn't dismantle their police force, they reformed it. Which I think we can all agree would be a great thing in Minneapolis.
You are clear that they dismantled it and then created a new agency correct?

"The city, home to a population about 17% of Minneapolis' size, dissolved its police department in 2012 and replaced it with an entirely new one after corruption rendered the existing agency unfixable."

The article also pointed to other smaller cities that dismantled their departments all together.
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Re: Disbanding the police dept? Effect on Vikings games?

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:09 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:45 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:34 pm

You realize the article you posted does not give an example of what they are trying to do in Minneapolis? That city ended up adding 150 new cops and they didn't dismantle their police force, they reformed it. Which I think we can all agree would be a great thing in Minneapolis.
You are clear that they dismantled it and then created a new agency correct?

"The city, home to a population about 17% of Minneapolis' size, dissolved its police department in 2012 and replaced it with an entirely new one after corruption rendered the existing agency unfixable."

The article also pointed to other smaller cities that dismantled their departments all together.
Yes, if you kept reading you would see most of the force was hired back, and they increased the size of the force. They reformed and increased the size of their police force, they didn't get rid of it all together.

The cities they were talking about that dismantled their force completely are small cities of 7k and 1k.Very different from Minneapolis.
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Re: Disbanding the police dept? Effect on Vikings games?

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:19 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:09 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:45 pm


You are clear that they dismantled it and then created a new agency correct?

"The city, home to a population about 17% of Minneapolis' size, dissolved its police department in 2012 and replaced it with an entirely new one after corruption rendered the existing agency unfixable."

The article also pointed to other smaller cities that dismantled their departments all together.
Yes, if you kept reading you would see most of the force was hired back, and they increased the size of the force. They reformed and increased the size of their police force, they didn't get rid of it all together.

The cities they were talking about that dismantled their force completely are small cities of 7k and 1k.Very different from Minneapolis.
I don't know why you keep trying to point out things that were previously pointed out. It makes it seem like your response is only to attempt to detract from the point. You are failing badly in doing so if that is your ultimate goal.

The police officers were not hired back. They hired a completely new force, which I pointed out in my post. Also, I can point to NYC LEOs, who were so upset that officers were tried for the Eric Garner case, that they essentially went on strike. Public reports of crime (serious and petty) dropped during that period of time. I can't explain it but it shows that less policing has an effect on crime. As I also pointed out I think you hit a point of diminishing returns and eventually less policing will have a detrimental effect on public safety. My point is we need to search for the perfect balance.
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Re: Disbanding the police dept? Effect on Vikings games?

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:25 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:31 pm
Wow, a 3 to 6% decrease in crime. Very meaningful.

Here is what happened in Baltimore:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatod ... /744741002

Triple the number of shootings in some neighborhoods and Baltimore became the most dangerous place in America.
You think a 6% drop in crime in a city as large as NYC isn't meaningful? Welp!

Do you mind copying and posting the article. I am afraid that my pop-up blocker and USA today doesn't play well.
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Re: Disbanding the police dept? Effect on Vikings games?

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:34 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:25 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:31 pm

Wow, a 3 to 6% decrease in crime. Very meaningful.

Here is what happened in Baltimore:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatod ... /744741002

Triple the number of shootings in some neighborhoods and Baltimore became the most dangerous place in America.
You think a 6% drop in crime in a city as large as NYC isn't meaningful? Welp!

Do you mind copying and posting the article. I am afraid that my pop-up blocker and USA today doesn't play well.
Over 7 weeks period? It means little and could be completely unrelated.

Here is a different link, the article is very long.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 744741002/

Here is the first part of it if the link doesn't work:
BALTIMORE – Just before a wave of violence turned Baltimore into the nation’s deadliest big city, a curious thing happened to its police force: officers suddenly seemed to stop noticing crime.

Police officers reported seeing fewer drug dealers on street corners. They encountered fewer people who had open arrest warrants.

Police questioned fewer people on the street. They stopped fewer cars.

In the space of just a few days in spring 2015 – as Baltimore faced a wave of rioting after Freddie Gray, a black man, died from injuries he suffered in the back of a police van – officers in nearly every part of the city appeared to turn a blind eye to everyday violations. They still answered calls for help. But the number of potential violations they reported seeing themselves dropped by nearly half. It has largely stayed that way ever since.


“What officers are doing is they’re just driving looking forward. They’ve got horse blinders on,” says Kevin Forrester, a retired Baltimore detective.

The surge of shootings and killings that followed has left Baltimore easily the deadliest large city in the United States. Its murder rate reached an all-time high last year; 342 people were killed. The number of shootings in some neighborhoods has more than tripled. One man was shot to death steps from a police station. Another was killed driving in a funeral procession.

What's happening in Baltimore offers a view of the possible costs of a remarkable national reckoning over how police officers have treated minorities.

Starting in 2014, a series of racially charged encounters in Ferguson, Missouri; Chicago; Baltimore; and elsewhere cast an unflattering spotlight on aggressive police tactics toward black people. Since then, cities have been under pressure to crack down on abuses by law enforcement.
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Re: Disbanding the police dept? Effect on Vikings games?

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:44 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:19 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:09 pm

Yes, if you kept reading you would see most of the force was hired back, and they increased the size of the force. They reformed and increased the size of their police force, they didn't get rid of it all together.

The cities they were talking about that dismantled their force completely are small cities of 7k and 1k.Very different from Minneapolis.
I don't know why you keep trying to point out things that were previously pointed out. It makes it seem like your response is only to attempt to detract from the point. You are failing badly in doing so if that is your ultimate goal.

The police officers were not hired back. They hired a completely new force, which I pointed out in my post. Also, I can point to NYC LEOs, who were so upset that officers were tried for the Eric Garner case, that they essentially went on strike. Public reports of crime (serious and petty) dropped during that period of time. I can't explain it but it shows that less policing has an effect on crime. As I also pointed out I think you hit a point of diminishing returns and eventually less policing will have a detrimental effect on public safety. My point is we need to search for the perfect balance.
My ultimate goal is to point out that what they did in Camden is indeed what they should be trying to do in Minneapolis, but that is not what the City Council in Minneapolis is going for.
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Re: Disbanding the police dept? Effect on Vikings games?

Post by VikingsVictorious » Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:07 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:23 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:39 pm

Police do a very dangerous job. Many die in the line of duty. Blue Lives is a very big thing and their safety on the job absolutely deserves consideration. There's video of a local Flagstaff cop being killed because he hesitated. It sucks that sometimes they don't hesitate when they should. Sometimes the answers are easy. Sometimes the answers are nearly impossible.
It is a job and therefore a choice. Police officers choose to be LEO. Black people are born Black. Where was BlueLivesMatter before BLM? The "movement" only arose when complaints of police brutality became more and more widespread. They only are present when people are voicing opposition to police brutality. The entire movement (no matter how pure it may seem on the surface) is nefarious. This from a guy that is dating a LEO and cares about her safety dearly.
The lives of Law enforcement officers matter. To me it was sick to say they don't.
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Re: Disbanding the police dept? Effect on Vikings games?

Post by VikingsVictorious » Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:18 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:41 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:39 pm

Police do a very dangerous job. Many die in the line of duty. Blue Lives is a very big thing and their safety on the job absolutely deserves consideration. There's video of a local Flagstaff cop being killed because he hesitated. It sucks that sometimes they don't hesitate when they should. Sometimes the answers are easy. Sometimes the answers are nearly impossible.
Nah bruh!!! You aren't going to convince me that the killing of countless POC and Non-POC that are innocent, have no weapon, and did not propose a threat to police, is excused by a police officer that hesitated and died. LEO must change the way they interact with the public. They are too heavy-handed. What happened to the days of arresting people like people instead of tackling them to the ground. I am sure my perspective on this is different than yours as younger Black man. However, I wonder why people never believe POC that are telling them this is what LEO is like.
I'm an old Native American, Asian and White man. I'd never heard about Blue Lives Matter until a week ago. I respect LEO's and I very much appreciate the idea that their lives matter too.
I have not been tackled by police officers yet knock on wood. I have seen my nephew who is also part Hispanic receive heavy handed police treatment right in front of me. I understand that officers are often too aggressive in the performance of their duties, but it is a fact that officers have died from hesitating and not being heavy handed enough. It goes both ways. I have seen it both ways. I specifically acknowledged that officers have abused their authority. We could get into all the statistics of who is doing the most harm, but I don't want to go there. However, I will never accept that it is OK to randomly kill LEO's as you call them because their lives don't matter.
I understand that you are not advocating the random killing of LEO's. However, to me that is exactly what that sign said.
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