Vikings offensive line

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Re: Vikings offensive line

Post by PacificNorseWest » Fri May 08, 2020 6:10 pm

Ian Rapoport
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Source: The #Saints have cut guard Larry Warford, who will be one of the top FAs available.
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Re: Vikings offensive line

Post by VikingsVictorious » Fri May 08, 2020 9:38 pm

PacificNorseWest wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 6:10 pm
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
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Source: The #Saints have cut guard Larry Warford, who will be one of the top FAs available.
The way I hear it he made the pro bowl, but he actually isn't very good.
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Re: Vikings offensive line

Post by Maelstrom88 » Sat May 09, 2020 12:13 am

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 9:38 pm
PacificNorseWest wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 6:10 pm
The way I hear it he made the pro bowl, but he actually isn't very good.
So another Rhodes? Does he fit a zone scheme? What did PFF grade him last year?
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Re: Vikings offensive line

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sat May 09, 2020 12:21 pm

Maelstrom88 wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:13 am
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 9:38 pm

The way I hear it he made the pro bowl, but he actually isn't very good.
So another Rhodes? Does he fit a zone scheme? What did PFF grade him last year?
73.1 PFF Rating. The same score as recent Vikings cut Josh Kline.
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Re: Vikings offensive line

Post by Maelstrom88 » Sat May 09, 2020 1:36 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:21 pm
Maelstrom88 wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:13 am


So another Rhodes? Does he fit a zone scheme? What did PFF grade him last year?
73.1 PFF Rating. The same score as recent Vikings cut Josh Kline.
So if we sign him and Kline our line would be solid :pour:
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Re: Vikings offensive line

Post by Eller » Sat May 09, 2020 6:30 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 4:02 pm
Eller wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 8:03 pm
I agree, its the one place Spielman and the Vikings system has failed miserably is on the offensive line.Denny Green made the oline a priority. But so did Dallas, and having a great oline won them nothing. But they have to be good. Cousins first year was embarrassing, stats were ok, but sometimes he just has no time to complete plays.
Offensive line is really tough to draft, mostly because to be effective offensive linemen have to be able to work well with the players around them. When they do individual drills you can see their raw ability to move in space, change direction, hit blocking dummies, etc., but those conditions don't have much bearing on how well they do in game situations. For that, you need the tape, and even then, the tape might not tell the whole story. An offensive linemen might be very effective as a drive blocker in short yardage situations, for example, but he can't pass block to save his life. Or a guy might be really good at latching on and blocking in pass protection, but he is slow at recognition and often misses blitz pickups.

One thing I like to see when I'm reading pre-draft evals on offensive linemen is they have shown mental development over their college careers. It's one of the reasons I was optimistic about the O'Neill pick, and probably falls along the lines of your opinion of Notre Dame players. While it helps for rookie offensive linemen to have the physical tools coming into the pros, the biggest jump for most of them is mental, and guys who come into the league having put evidence of that mental development on tape are the kinds of linemen I like to see the Vikings draft. That and being hard workers who want to excel.

The same is true for the defensive side of the ball. Being able to recognize and react is really important for defensive linemen. Lots of offensive schemes rely on misdirection and outright deception. They're designed to pull a defensive linemen out of position as much as they are to block him out of it, so finding guys who are capable of playing the position in the larger scheme is as important as finding guys who just put their heads down and plow straight ahead.
Yep I suppose it didnt help that the Vikings have used a lot of 1st rounders on cornerbacks. Todd Stussie and Korrie Stringer were 1st rounders, then the Vikings wiffed on Kahlil. Reilly Reiff is ok, but Vikings havent had a stud at left tackle since Stussie, Zimmerman and way back Ron Yary. I just wish they could get o line back to really strong. Reiff is a good player, but he struggles against DE's that are real fast, I think. Packers have been able to do it, without spending a ton of high draft capital on it. i think it can be done. I dont how long Vikes have been doing the zone offensive line stuff (I think its only one year), maybe the second year will be better. Really miss Joe Berger.
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Re: Vikings offensive line

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sun May 10, 2020 12:52 am

Maelstrom88 wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:36 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:21 pm


73.1 PFF Rating. The same score as recent Vikings cut Josh Kline.
So if we sign him and Kline our line would be solid :pour:
Possibly. I think our line is going to be solid without signing either of them. That said we saved so little money letting Kline go that I think the Vikings are very concerned about Kline's health or very confident in Samia and Udoh stepping up this year.
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Re: Vikings offensive line

Post by StumpHunter » Sun May 10, 2020 8:44 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:21 pm
Maelstrom88 wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:13 am


So another Rhodes? Does he fit a zone scheme? What did PFF grade him last year?
73.1 PFF Rating. The same score as recent Vikings cut Josh Kline.
Huh? Kline's PFF grade was 61, second worst on the line behind Bradbury.

The legend of Josh Kline grows by the day.

73.1 would have made Warford the best Olineman on the Vikings last year.

If you think PFF is relevant that is. I would assume he wouldn't have been cut if he really had played that well and some team would have traded something for him to pay him 3 million this year.
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Re: Vikings offensive line

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sun May 10, 2020 11:14 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 8:44 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:21 pm


73.1 PFF Rating. The same score as recent Vikings cut Josh Kline.
Huh? Kline's PFF grade was 61, second worst on the line behind Bradbury.

The legend of Josh Kline grows by the day.

73.1 would have made Warford the best Olineman on the Vikings last year.

If you think PFF is relevant that is. I would assume he wouldn't have been cut if he really had played that well and some team would have traded something for him to pay him 3 million this year.
Oops it was Reiff that was the about the same at 71.1. Read somebody else saying that it was Kline.
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Re: Vikings offensive line

Post by StumpHunter » Mon May 11, 2020 8:21 am

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 11:14 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 8:44 pm


Huh? Kline's PFF grade was 61, second worst on the line behind Bradbury.

The legend of Josh Kline grows by the day.

73.1 would have made Warford the best Olineman on the Vikings last year.

If you think PFF is relevant that is. I would assume he wouldn't have been cut if he really had played that well and some team would have traded something for him to pay him 3 million this year.
Oops it was Reiff that was the about the same at 71.1. Read somebody else saying that it was Kline.
No worries, mistakes happen.

Plus, the reality is that despite PFF's grade, Warford probably had a similar year to Kline's. I think both the Vikings and Saints saved similar cap cutting those two, and neither fetched anything via trade despite a relatively low cap cost.
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Re: Vikings offensive line

Post by VikingsVictorious » Mon May 11, 2020 9:29 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 8:21 am
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 11:14 pm

Oops it was Reiff that was the about the same at 71.1. Read somebody else saying that it was Kline.
No worries, mistakes happen.

Plus, the reality is that despite PFF's grade, Warford probably had a similar year to Kline's. I think both the Vikings and Saints saved similar cap cutting those two, and neither fetched anything via trade despite a relatively low cap cost.
Stump you are cool to chat with as long as the Vikings QB isn't part of the conversation. I think I will continue to keep you on ignore, but click the display this post when the chance of commentary on QB is low.
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Re: Vikings offensive line

Post by VikingLord » Mon May 11, 2020 1:55 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 8:44 pm
If you think PFF is relevant that is. I would assume he wouldn't have been cut if he really had played that well and some team would have traded something for him to pay him 3 million this year.
Kline didn't play that well. He had some decent stretches but was maddeningly inconsistent and not an improvement.

However, I read the fact that the Vikings cut Kline as a positive indication they feel they have someone already on the roster who can improve the spot. Not sure if that is Samia or Udoh (my guess would be Samia because I think Udoh has never played guard and doesn't strike me as a guard), but if the Vikings braintrust saw Kline as the best option they would have kept him. He wasn't cheap per se, but he wasn't terribly expensive either. I think the Vikings saw some positive development in Samia over the course of last season and feel he's ready to step in.
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Re: Vikings offensive line

Post by StumpHunter » Tue May 12, 2020 12:20 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 1:55 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 8:44 pm
If you think PFF is relevant that is. I would assume he wouldn't have been cut if he really had played that well and some team would have traded something for him to pay him 3 million this year.
Kline didn't play that well. He had some decent stretches but was maddeningly inconsistent and not an improvement.

However, I read the fact that the Vikings cut Kline as a positive indication they feel they have someone already on the roster who can improve the spot. Not sure if that is Samia or Udoh (my guess would be Samia because I think Udoh has never played guard and doesn't strike me as a guard), but if the Vikings braintrust saw Kline as the best option they would have kept him. He wasn't cheap per se, but he wasn't terribly expensive either. I think the Vikings saw some positive development in Samia over the course of last season and feel he's ready to step in.
I didn't mean to imply Kline played well with that comparison, more that Warford did not play well.
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Re: Vikings offensive line

Post by Maelstrom88 » Wed May 13, 2020 9:52 am

VikingLord wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 1:55 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 8:44 pm
If you think PFF is relevant that is. I would assume he wouldn't have been cut if he really had played that well and some team would have traded something for him to pay him 3 million this year.
Kline didn't play that well. He had some decent stretches but was maddeningly inconsistent and not an improvement.

However, I read the fact that the Vikings cut Kline as a positive indication they feel they have someone already on the roster who can improve the spot. Not sure if that is Samia or Udoh (my guess would be Samia because I think Udoh has never played guard and doesn't strike me as a guard), but if the Vikings braintrust saw Kline as the best option they would have kept him. He wasn't cheap per se, but he wasn't terribly expensive either. I think the Vikings saw some positive development in Samia over the course of last season and feel he's ready to step in.
Let's hope so. If you keep playing mediocre players you can expect mediocre results. Samia was a 4th rounder at a position usually not highly drafted. He should be able to develop into a starter that at least rivals Kline. Sometimes guys just need a chance.
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Re: Vikings offensive line

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Wed May 13, 2020 10:04 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 8:44 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:21 pm


73.1 PFF Rating. The same score as recent Vikings cut Josh Kline.
Huh? Kline's PFF grade was 61, second worst on the line behind Bradbury.

The legend of Josh Kline grows by the day.

73.1 would have made Warford the best Olineman on the Vikings last year.

If you think PFF is relevant that is. I would assume he wouldn't have been cut if he really had played that well and some team would have traded something for him to pay him 3 million this year.
Wow. Kline's rating was worse than Elflein's? That's an achievement. Sort of.
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