As long as Kirk Cousins is a Viking, they will never draft a quarterback!!!

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Re: As long as Kirk Cousins is a Viking, they will never draft a quarterback!!!

Post by VikingsVictorious » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:29 am

fiestavike wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:00 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:13 am


Thanks and ya know what, if our team was loaded top to bottom, maybe only had a hole or two then maybe taking one in the 2nd or 3rd is warranted if there is a guy we really like. But if there isnt someone we're high on available in those middle rounds, dont just pick a QB because it's what "what you're suppose to do".

The fricken Patriots literally have Brian Hoyer and Jarrett Stidham and didnt draft a single QB. We have Kirk Cousins on our roster and guys are saying we should draft a QB early (mainly the ones that dont like Cousins) but the best coach of all time, Bill Belichick loses Tom Brady and went an entire draft without picking up a single QB. And they were picking right next to us. I guess Bill Belichick must be clueless too since he didnt trade up for Herbert or Tua.
He's tanking.
He's not tanking for Trevor
He's losing for Lawrence :lol:

Seriously their defense is too good to lose a lot of games.
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Re: As long as Kirk Cousins is a Viking, they will never draft a quarterback!!!

Post by fiestavike » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:32 am

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:29 am
fiestavike wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:00 am


He's tanking.
He's not tanking for Trevor
He's losing for Lawrence :lol:

Seriously their defense is too good to lose a lot of games.
Jarret Stidham might beg to differ.
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Re: As long as Kirk Cousins is a Viking, they will never draft a quarterback!!!

Post by VikingsVictorious » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:36 am

fiestavike wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:32 am
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:29 am

He's not tanking for Trevor
He's losing for Lawrence :lol:

Seriously their defense is too good to lose a lot of games.
Jarret Stidham might beg to differ.
I really doubt that Stidham is going to suck. Even if he does their defense is too good to lose a lot of games. We all say Ponder is the Suck of All Suck and even he didn't manage to lose a lot of games.
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Re: As long as Kirk Cousins is a Viking, they will never draft a quarterback!!!

Post by fiestavike » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:43 am

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:36 am
fiestavike wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:32 am


Jarret Stidham might beg to differ.
I really doubt that Stidham is going to suck. Even if he does their defense is too good to lose a lot of games. We all say Ponder is the Suck of All Suck and even he didn't manage to lose a lot of games.
That's a fair point.
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Re: As long as Kirk Cousins is a Viking, they will never draft a quarterback!!!

Post by Maelstrom88 » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:50 am

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:36 am
fiestavike wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:32 am


Jarret Stidham might beg to differ.
I really doubt that Stidham is going to suck. Even if he does their defense is too good to lose a lot of games. We all say Ponder is the Suck of All Suck and even he didn't manage to lose a lot of games.
That division doesn't have any heavy weight champs either. You are probably accidentally going to win at least half of your division games just based on Belicheck scheming angle their talent on defense.
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Re: As long as Kirk Cousins is a Viking, they will never draft a quarterback!!!

Post by Maelstrom88 » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:07 pm

From Walterfootball:

Green Bay Packers: F Grade 

Goals Entering the 2020 NFL Draft: Aaron Rodgers is entering the twilight of his career, so it's rather disappointing that the Packers don't have any viable receiving threats for him outside of Davante Adams and maybe Allen Lazard. The Packers' top priority is to give Rodgers a couple more weapons. They also must make sure they upgrade their porous run defense. 

2020 NFL Draft Accomplishments: The Packers were in the NFC Championship last year. It could be argued that they didn't deserve to be there, but they were, and if they had more help at receiver and a player or two to help stuff the run, they may have beaten the 49ers. With the Packers being so close to another Super Bowl, logic dictated that they would add weapons around Aaron Rodgers to help put them over the top. 

Instead, the opposite happened, as they reached for Jordan Love, doing so via a trade where they hopped over teams that didn't need quarterbacks. This was an irresponsible decision that in no way mirrored Green Bay's pick of Rodgers in 2005. Back then, Brett Favre was flip-flopping back and forth about his retirement decision, and Rodgers was a prospect who was considered to be in play for the No. 1 overall pick. Rodgers has said nothing of retirement, so using a first-round pick on a raw quarterback was irresponsible. If the Packers wanted a worse version of Jameis Winston, they should have just signed Jameis Winston. 

Things somehow didn't get any better on Day 2. The Packers wasted a pick on fourth-round plodding running back A.J. Dillon when they had no need at the position. They then used their third-round choice on a seventh-round fullback prospect. It's almost as if the Packers outsourced their drafting decisions to Bill Belichick's dog. 

The Packers made some fine selections on Saturday, but nothing they could've done in Rounds 4-7 could make up for their disastrous first half of the 2020 NFL Draft. They deserve an "F" for their absolutely atrocious drafting. 

:point: :rofl:

Meanwhile the Vikings and Slick Rick:

2020 NFL Draft Accomplishments: I loved what the Vikings did in the first round. Justin Jefferson somehow fell to them even though one team in the teens would've considered him if a certain prospect wasn't available. I'm sure the Vikings weren't planning on having Jefferson on the board, but he fell into their lap as a replacement for Stefon Diggs. Minnesota then traded out of No. 25 to pick up an extra resource. It parked itself right in front of the Chiefs, who wanted Jeff Gladney, and selected the very same prospect to help repair their poor secondary. 

The Vikings' great drafting continued into Day 2. They snatched future left tackle Ezra Cleveland at No. 58 even though he was drawing some first-round consideration. Cameron Dantzler was also a steal in the third frame. He and Gladney will go a long way in improving a poor pass defense. 

Minnesota had some clunkers on Saturday, including Harrison Hand and K.J. Osborn, so things weren't perfect for them. However, there were also some excellet third-day choices mixed in, such as James Lynch, Troy Dye and Kenny Willekes. 

I loved the Vikings' draft. They obtained some very promising prospects, filled needs and acquired assets by trading. I think they deserve a rare A+.

:smilevike: :ripple:

And the Bears got a D while still having garbage QBs. This division is ours.
Last edited by Maelstrom88 on Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: As long as Kirk Cousins is a Viking, they will never draft a quarterback!!!

Post by Maelstrom88 » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:08 pm

Also want to say what a steal we are getting with Hunter's salary vs. the Bears with Mack. Plus they gave up all those picks for him. Bears are dummies and Nagy will be fired after this year.
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Re: As long as Kirk Cousins is a Viking, they will never draft a quarterback!!!

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:31 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:29 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:13 am


Thanks and ya know what, if our team was loaded top to bottom, maybe only had a hole or two then maybe taking one in the 2nd or 3rd is warranted if there is a guy we really like. But if there isnt someone we're high on available in those middle rounds, dont just pick a QB because it's what "what you're suppose to do".
Correct again. I don't like the mentality of taking a QB just to take him. That isn't how you get your guy.

I think where people have valid concerns with Rick not taking guys in the mid-rounds, is that there have been a couple of QBs available in those rounds who would have been great picks, and we passed on them. Wilson, Prescott, and yes, even Cousins.

There should have been guys who Rick was high on and who he should have spent a pick on, and he hasn't pulled the trigger. To be fair a lot of GMs also didn't pull the trigger, but a lot of those GMs who should have been looking at a QB in those rounds are no longer employed.
I get what you're saying but that's 3 QBs since 2012 (when Spielman took over as GM) that actually ended up being worth a 3rd-4th round pick. That's not very good. And the next question is, when do you pull that trigger? Because it almost sounds like you think they should do it each year.

I mean lets look at the QBs drafted in rounds 3-4 in the last 5 years.

2019:
Will Grier (3rd)
Ryan Finley(4th)
Jarrett Stidham (4th)

2018:
Mason Rudolph (3rd)
Kyle Lauletta (4th)

2017:
Davis Webb (3rd)
CJ Beathard (3rd)
Josh Dobbs (4th)

2016:
Jacoby Brissett (3rd)
Cody Kessler (3rd)
Connor Cook (4th)
Dak Prescott (4th)
Cardale Jones (4th)

2015:
Garrett Grayson (3rd)
Sean Mannion (3rd)
Bryce Petty (4th)


So what GMs that should've been looking at this crop of QBs is now no longer employed? I'm pretty sure they arent employed because they just werent good GMs in general. Do you think if those GMs you're referring to drafted Davis Webb instead of passing on a QB, they'd still have jobs? I can guarantee you that is not the case.

The last 5 years show one QB that has been "worth it" (Prescott) and that's about it. And that QB hasnt sniffed a SB yet. The only other QB that was even okay enough to plug in was Brissett but he wasnt a franchise QB by any means.

So again, the chances of finding a 3rd-4th round QB that can become a franchise guy is extremely slim. So what is the point of taking one this year when we had glaring holes at WR, LG, RG, LT (to an extent), 3 tech DT, DE and in need of about 10 CBs AND just extended Kirk Cousins??
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Re: As long as Kirk Cousins is a Viking, they will never draft a quarterback!!!

Post by fiestavike » Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:51 pm

Nate Stanley will be an All-Pro.
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Re: As long as Kirk Cousins is a Viking, they will never draft a quarterback!!!

Post by YikesVikes » Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:12 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:13 am
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:06 am

Great Post. Drafting a QB after the first round is usually a waste of a pick and a waste of time.
Thanks and ya know what, if our team was loaded top to bottom, maybe only had a hole or two then maybe taking one in the 2nd or 3rd is warranted if there is a guy we really like. But if there isnt someone we're high on available in those middle rounds, dont just pick a QB because it's what "what you're suppose to do".

The fricken Patriots literally have Brian Hoyer and Jarrett Stidham and didnt draft a single QB. We have Kirk Cousins on our roster and guys are saying we should draft a QB early (mainly the ones that dont like Cousins) but the best coach of all time, Bill Belichick loses Tom Brady and went an entire draft without picking up a single QB. And they were picking right next to us. I guess Bill Belichick must be clueless too since he didnt trade up for Herbert or Tua.
In fairness, the Pats have drafted tons of QBs during the Brady ERA. Jimmy G was a 2nd round pick. So, they arent the best team to use an as example.

I agree that the Vikes had too many holes to fill round 1-3. I didn't like who was there in the 4th. I would just like going into the season with someone else besides Sean Mannion. I mean Saints have Brees and HIll but also are trying to sign Winston.
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Re: As long as Kirk Cousins is a Viking, they will never draft a quarterback!!!

Post by S197 » Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:52 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:31 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:29 am


Correct again. I don't like the mentality of taking a QB just to take him. That isn't how you get your guy.

I think where people have valid concerns with Rick not taking guys in the mid-rounds, is that there have been a couple of QBs available in those rounds who would have been great picks, and we passed on them. Wilson, Prescott, and yes, even Cousins.

There should have been guys who Rick was high on and who he should have spent a pick on, and he hasn't pulled the trigger. To be fair a lot of GMs also didn't pull the trigger, but a lot of those GMs who should have been looking at a QB in those rounds are no longer employed.
I get what you're saying but that's 3 QBs since 2012 (when Spielman took over as GM) that actually ended up being worth a 3rd-4th round pick. That's not very good. And the next question is, when do you pull that trigger? Because it almost sounds like you think they should do it each year.

I mean lets look at the QBs drafted in rounds 3-4 in the last 5 years.

2019:
Will Grier (3rd)
Ryan Finley(4th)
Jarrett Stidham (4th)

2018:
Mason Rudolph (3rd)
Kyle Lauletta (4th)

2017:
Davis Webb (3rd)
CJ Beathard (3rd)
Josh Dobbs (4th)

2016:
Jacoby Brissett (3rd)
Cody Kessler (3rd)
Connor Cook (4th)
Dak Prescott (4th)
Cardale Jones (4th)

2015:
Garrett Grayson (3rd)
Sean Mannion (3rd)
Bryce Petty (4th)


So what GMs that should've been looking at this crop of QBs is now no longer employed? I'm pretty sure they arent employed because they just werent good GMs in general. Do you think if those GMs you're referring to drafted Davis Webb instead of passing on a QB, they'd still have jobs? I can guarantee you that is not the case.

The last 5 years show one QB that has been "worth it" (Prescott) and that's about it. And that QB hasnt sniffed a SB yet. The only other QB that was even okay enough to plug in was Brissett but he wasnt a franchise QB by any means.

So again, the chances of finding a 3rd-4th round QB that can become a franchise guy is extremely slim. So what is the point of taking one this year when we had glaring holes at WR, LG, RG, LT (to an extent), 3 tech DT, DE and in need of about 10 CBs AND just extended Kirk Cousins??
Let's assume there wasn't anyone this year. Or we had too many holes this year. How about the last 10 years? We've used more picks on kickers in the mid-rounds than QBs in the last decade. Punters too. Actually literally every single position on the field.

You are making it like passing on QBs is an anomaly when it is the standard for this team.
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Re: As long as Kirk Cousins is a Viking, they will never draft a quarterback!!!

Post by VikingLord » Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:52 pm

S197 wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:52 pm
Let's assume there wasn't anyone this year. Or we had too many holes this year. How about the last 10 years? We've used more picks on kickers in the mid-rounds than QBs in the last decade. Punters too. Actually literally every single position on the field.

You are making it like passing on QBs is an anomaly when it is the standard for this team.
This called to mind the Dennis Green era. Green wasn't prolific with QBs in the draft either. IIRC, he spent the majority of his years with the team picking up vet FA QBs to run his offenses. That worked out pretty well for him, although there was an element of good fortune there as well. When he finally did pony up in the draft for a QB, it was someone who had legit potential and who he didn't have to reach to get. That didn't ultimately turn out, but for the first few years at least it looked like Culpepper was going to be a franchise QB for the Vikings.

I guess for me this is a debate about overall strategy and what the draft is fundamentally about. I keep thinking back to the movie "Forrest Gump" and the line "Life is a box of chocolates - you never know what you're going to get".

Well, the draft is like that. Some drafts provide obvious value at certain positions and certain picks and others don't, and in general the most successful teams don't try to force value and instead go with what the draft provides. We can look at the results of that over the years and complain that the Vikings just don't draft QBs, or we can look at the results of that and say the Vikings talent evaluators were less focused on the position and more concerned about the value where they were picking.

I mean, look at the Pats this year. They lost their decades-long franchise QB over this offseason. No trade up to get one of the "sure thing" prospects in this draft. They could have taken Love ahead of the Packers as he was there. They passed. They could have snapped up Eason or Fromm or Morgan later too and they passed on all of them. That may not turn out to be very astute, or it might reflect a long-term strategy that has worked well for that team over a long time.

I'm not worried the Vikings didn't take a QB, or that they took a few CBs, or DEs, or whatever. I would be worried if the moves they made and the players they chose were reaches or ill-considered or did not make sense. Those types of moves, bad and good, tend to be cumulative over time. If Spielman knows what he's doing, in time it should show up in the Win-Loss columns.

And the final fact remains that there are always more than one way to skin a cat. While it is great to draft a franchise QB who starts for a decade and makes the team competitive every year for a Superbowl, that isn't necessary to be successful. Plenty of teams have gotten to and won Superbowls with fairly average QB play, or with an average QB who just got hot at the right time. Heck, had Case Keenum stayed hot in 2017 and/or Nick Foles hadn't performed way above average for a few consecutive playoff games, the Vikings might have been one of them.

I'd be upset only if Spielman was completely ignoring the QB position. He hasn't. He's made moves, often aggressive moves, to ensure the Vikings have competent QB play. His moves have been effective even if they haven't resulted in a Superbowl win (yet). I'm much happier he does that than waste draft picks on players he doesn't believe in just to tick a box on the team position chart heading into the next season.
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Re: As long as Kirk Cousins is a Viking, they will never draft a quarterback!!!

Post by S197 » Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:28 pm

The Patriots would fall into the anomalous category. Despite Tom Brady they have drafted QBs early. So perhaps they did not see value this year at their draft position. BB actually made a comment that it wasn't their intention to not draft anyone so it makes sense.

That is wholly unlike the Vikings who have not done something similar under Spielman's tenure when a starting QB was in place. He has only drafted a QB in the early rounds out of absolute need.

I fail to believe it was some sort of coincidence we saw no value at the QB position over the last decade. The more logical conclusion is his strategy is to simply ignore or discount any sort of potential or contingency plan drafting strategy at the position. Despite our tremendous lack of continuity at QB.
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Re: As long as Kirk Cousins is a Viking, they will never draft a quarterback!!!

Post by fiestavike » Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:00 pm

S197 wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:28 pm
The Patriots would fall into the anomalous category. Despite Tom Brady they have drafted QBs early. So perhaps they did not see value this year at their draft position. BB actually made a comment that it wasn't their intention to not draft anyone so it makes sense.

That is wholly unlike the Vikings who have not done something similar under Spielman's tenure when a starting QB was in place. He has only drafted a QB in the early rounds out of absolute need.

I fail to believe it was some sort of coincidence we saw no value at the QB position over the last decade. The more logical conclusion is his strategy is to simply ignore or discount any sort of potential or contingency plan drafting strategy at the position. Despite our tremendous lack of continuity at QB.
Poor Nate Stanley. Its like he doesn't even exist :lol:
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Re: As long as Kirk Cousins is a Viking, they will never draft a quarterback!!!

Post by S197 » Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:05 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:00 pm
S197 wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:28 pm
The Patriots would fall into the anomalous category. Despite Tom Brady they have drafted QBs early. So perhaps they did not see value this year at their draft position. BB actually made a comment that it wasn't their intention to not draft anyone so it makes sense.

That is wholly unlike the Vikings who have not done something similar under Spielman's tenure when a starting QB was in place. He has only drafted a QB in the early rounds out of absolute need.

I fail to believe it was some sort of coincidence we saw no value at the QB position over the last decade. The more logical conclusion is his strategy is to simply ignore or discount any sort of potential or contingency plan drafting strategy at the position. Despite our tremendous lack of continuity at QB.
Poor Nate Stanley. Its like he doesn't even exist :lol:
Mr Irrelevant! :tongue:

I do hope he and Browning have a chance to battle for the 3rd spot. He's going to be at quite the disadvantage this year I'm thinking but fingers crossed we have a training camp!
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