Perplexing draft

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84BreaksAnkles
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Perplexing draft

Post by 84BreaksAnkles » Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:49 pm

Ok guys, the way I see it....

First of all, you entered the draft with some of the most ammo out of all the teams.
By the end of the 1st round, you're sitting pretty with 2 seemingly solid picks, and you have 12 remaining picks.
Still, plenty of ammo to make potentially one or two more splash moves..

So here comes day two, you're sitting with a late 2nd, a decent 3rd & late 3rd round pick, in addition to a plethora of day three ammo.
To be honest with you, I was thinking it would be reasonable (and really exciting) to trade up into the 2nd, and at least spend 2 2nds and 2 3rds, thus depleting some of your day three fodder.
Instead, day 2 comes and goes and, and were left with
....
Ezra Cleveland
....

and....

C a m e r o n D a n t z l e r . . . .

But wait guys it gets better, we have now 13 draft picks for tomorrow to round out our bench/practice squad.

I know what you're thinking, "Hey man, Rick has proven he can find gems on day three, time in and time out"... But we all know thats hit or miss. Don't make me start busting out day three picks in the last 5 years, its certainly a mixed bag with some highs and some lows.

But what hits me the hardest here, is that we were in prime position to possibly walk away with one of the greatest potential early round hauls in recent NFL history. So you mean to tell me there was either:

a) NO-ONE, worth trading our valuable day three assets away, to move up for??
b) We couldn't find ANYONE willing to trade back??

Regardless of what I think about JJ & Gladney (actually quite optimistic), I'm not at all sold on Cleveland. I extensively studied this years tackle class and guard class, and I am shocked that he was this high on our board with who was still available. I understand we want athletic guys for Kub's zone-scheme, etc. But ask yourself something: When was the last time the Minnesota Vikings made it a point to invest in, or go after a Nasty Mauler with some elite size and brute strength? We have chased this model of rangy athletic "smart" guy since long before Zimmer arrived and its just like groundhog day, only there is no self-realization or any sort of a happy ending.

And guys, lets face it... Zimmer didn't strike diamonds here with the Dantzler pick. Sure he showed some good ball skills at times, but if you turn on the tape, its shocking how many times a double-move beat the kid or how slow he is to recover if he lets someone by. He has the length, but I wouldn't say the "Size". And what is length when you have 4.64 40? And believe me he doesn't "Play faster than his 40"... Just turn on some of the tape of this kid, and you'll see it for yourself. I can't find a single play where he recovers and makes a play after a receiver gets over the top on him. Is he a stout run-supporter? Not exactly, just watch a replays of his games and you can see multiple instances of the guy getting trucked. Where is the value here? I am really disappointed in this pick, and while i'll remain optimistic that Zim knows what he's doing, I just can't imagine this one working out.

The thing that gets me the most, is there were PLAYMAKERS all over the board all throughout rounds 2-3. We had the assets to go get some difference makers for this team, along the O-Line & in the secondary, but I can't help but feeling we just missed out big time.

Let's hope Pretty Ricky can work his magic and find some GEMS in rounds 4-5, and get rid of some of that 6th & 7th round fodder.
It just seems like we let a big one get away...
2 x
Please just watch(04:39-05:18):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxXCuSyj18M&t=4m39s
This is a dog.
Compare that to this guy (00:46-01:01):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar3ioQywcAc&t=0m45s
"It's ok to hit the bag"

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Re: Perplexing draft

Post by RandyMoss84 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:01 am

84BreaksAnkles wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:49 pm
Ok guys, the way I see it....

First of all, you entered the draft with some of the most ammo out of all the teams.
By the end of the 1st round, you're sitting pretty with 2 seemingly solid picks, and you have 12 remaining picks.
Still, plenty of ammo to make potentially one or two more splash moves..

So here comes day two, you're sitting with a late 2nd, a decent 3rd & late 3rd round pick, in addition to a plethora of day three ammo.
To be honest with you, I was thinking it would be reasonable (and really exciting) to trade up into the 2nd, and at least spend 2 2nds and 2 3rds, thus depleting some of your day three fodder.
Instead, day 2 comes and goes and, and were left with
....
Ezra Cleveland
....

and....

C a m e r o n D a n t z l e r . . . .

But wait guys it gets better, we have now 13 draft picks for tomorrow to round out our bench/practice squad.

I know what you're thinking, "Hey man, Rick has proven he can find gems on day three, time in and time out"... But we all know thats hit or miss. Don't make me start busting out day three picks in the last 5 years, its certainly a mixed bag with some highs and some lows.

But what hits me the hardest here, is that we were in prime position to possibly walk away with one of the greatest potential early round hauls in recent NFL history. So you mean to tell me there was either:

a) NO-ONE, worth trading our valuable day three assets away, to move up for??
b) We couldn't find ANYONE willing to trade back??

Regardless of what I think about JJ & Gladney (actually quite optimistic), I'm not at all sold on Cleveland. I extensively studied this years tackle class and guard class, and I am shocked that he was this high on our board with who was still available. I understand we want athletic guys for Kub's zone-scheme, etc. But ask yourself something: When was the last time the Minnesota Vikings made it a point to invest in, or go after a Nasty Mauler with some elite size and brute strength? We have chased this model of rangy athletic "smart" guy since long before Zimmer arrived and its just like groundhog day, only there is no self-realization or any sort of a happy ending.

And guys, lets face it... Zimmer didn't strike diamonds here with the Dantzler pick. Sure he showed some good ball skills at times, but if you turn on the tape, its shocking how many times a double-move beat the kid or how slow he is to recover if he lets someone by. He has the length, but I wouldn't say the "Size". And what is length when you have 4.64 40? And believe me he doesn't "Play faster than his 40"... Just turn on some of the tape of this kid, and you'll see it for yourself. I can't find a single play where he recovers and makes a play after a receiver gets over the top on him. Is he a stout run-supporter? Not exactly, just watch a replays of his games and you can see multiple instances of the guy getting trucked. Where is the value here? I am really disappointed in this pick, and while i'll remain optimistic that Zim knows what he's doing, I just can't imagine this one working out.

The thing that gets me the most, is there were PLAYMAKERS all over the board all throughout rounds 2-3. We had the assets to go get some difference makers for this team, along the O-Line & in the secondary, but I can't help but feeling we just missed out big time.

Let's hope Pretty Ricky can work his magic and find some GEMS in rounds 4-5, and get rid of some of that 6th & 7th round fodder.
It just seems like we let a big one get away...
How is that a perplexing draft? Vikings have been filling needs! If you want to see a perplexing draft, look at the Packers draft
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84BreaksAnkles
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Re: Perplexing draft

Post by 84BreaksAnkles » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:14 am

Come on, brother read what I said, don’t just respond to the subject. We all know that “filling needs” doesn’t equate to drafting Pat Elflein when you are thin at OG. “Filling needs” is going and finding quality guys who can not only become starters, but difference makers.

You can’t tell me that there was no one in the 2nd or 3rd who we could have moved up for to fit that bill. These guys are not difference makers...they’re bodies.

Gladney give me some optimism and I hope that JJ isn’t just a product of a combination of playing with the heisman winner and a great scheme they were running in the bayou. He seems like he could become legit, but come on man, you’re going to give me the “filling needs” schpiel, when we had enough ammo to fill 2-3 more needs on day-2?

That’s just silly
0 x
Please just watch(04:39-05:18):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxXCuSyj18M&t=4m39s
This is a dog.
Compare that to this guy (00:46-01:01):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar3ioQywcAc&t=0m45s
"It's ok to hit the bag"

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Re: Perplexing draft

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:16 am

84BreaksAnkles wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:49 pm
Ok guys, the way I see it....

First of all, you entered the draft with some of the most ammo out of all the teams.
By the end of the 1st round, you're sitting pretty with 2 seemingly solid picks, and you have 12 remaining picks.
Still, plenty of ammo to make potentially one or two more splash moves..

So here comes day two, you're sitting with a late 2nd, a decent 3rd & late 3rd round pick, in addition to a plethora of day three ammo.
To be honest with you, I was thinking it would be reasonable (and really exciting) to trade up into the 2nd, and at least spend 2 2nds and 2 3rds, thus depleting some of your day three fodder.
Instead, day 2 comes and goes and, and were left with
....
Ezra Cleveland
....

and....

C a m e r o n D a n t z l e r . . . .

But wait guys it gets better, we have now 13 draft picks for tomorrow to round out our bench/practice squad.

I know what you're thinking, "Hey man, Rick has proven he can find gems on day three, time in and time out"... But we all know thats hit or miss. Don't make me start busting out day three picks in the last 5 years, its certainly a mixed bag with some highs and some lows.

But what hits me the hardest here, is that we were in prime position to possibly walk away with one of the greatest potential early round hauls in recent NFL history. So you mean to tell me there was either:

a) NO-ONE, worth trading our valuable day three assets away, to move up for??
b) We couldn't find ANYONE willing to trade back??

Regardless of what I think about JJ & Gladney (actually quite optimistic), I'm not at all sold on Cleveland. I extensively studied this years tackle class and guard class, and I am shocked that he was this high on our board with who was still available. I understand we want athletic guys for Kub's zone-scheme, etc. But ask yourself something: When was the last time the Minnesota Vikings made it a point to invest in, or go after a Nasty Mauler with some elite size and brute strength? We have chased this model of rangy athletic "smart" guy since long before Zimmer arrived and its just like groundhog day, only there is no self-realization or any sort of a happy ending.

And guys, lets face it... Zimmer didn't strike diamonds here with the Dantzler pick. Sure he showed some good ball skills at times, but if you turn on the tape, its shocking how many times a double-move beat the kid or how slow he is to recover if he lets someone by. He has the length, but I wouldn't say the "Size". And what is length when you have 4.64 40? And believe me he doesn't "Play faster than his 40"... Just turn on some of the tape of this kid, and you'll see it for yourself. I can't find a single play where he recovers and makes a play after a receiver gets over the top on him. Is he a stout run-supporter? Not exactly, just watch a replays of his games and you can see multiple instances of the guy getting trucked. Where is the value here? I am really disappointed in this pick, and while i'll remain optimistic that Zim knows what he's doing, I just can't imagine this one working out.

The thing that gets me the most, is there were PLAYMAKERS all over the board all throughout rounds 2-3. We had the assets to go get some difference makers for this team, along the O-Line & in the secondary, but I can't help but feeling we just missed out big time.

Let's hope Pretty Ricky can work his magic and find some GEMS in rounds 4-5, and get rid of some of that 6th & 7th round fodder.
It just seems like we let a big one get away...
Dantzler was considered a top 10 corner by just about everybody. He was successful against both Chase and Jefferson. I'll take that. Cleveland was considered a late first round or early second round player. We got him late 2nd. The pick we traded away was the next to last pick of the third round. We turned it into a late 4 a 5th a 6th and a 7th. Hard to complain about that. We picked up 3 likely starters already with possibilities of more. I will gladly take that.
1 x

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Re: Perplexing draft

Post by 84BreaksAnkles » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:52 am

Guys.... Please use your own eyes. Don't accept whats fed to you always..

Please just watch these two clips (timestamp 00:04:39 00:05:18):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxXCuSyj18M&t=4m39s

Look at Wills here. This is a dog. This is a nasty guy and he wants to hurt you.

Compare that hog's grit to this guy (timestamp 00:00:46 - 00:01:01):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar3ioQywcAc&t=0m45s

Just listen to the coach "It's ok to hit the bag"...........

And before you guys stroll in with the ol' "Its just a bag drill in the combine, it has nothing to do with the game", "Wills was a top-5 pick, and there's natural dropoff in the later picks, etc."

Just stop it. You can't convince me there wasn't another one of the 40+ tackles in this class with a little more grit, a little more heart, a little more drive, a little more dog in him. I can already hear the ol' "But he's a scheme fit for what were trying to do", good luck with that. We've read that book before and it ends the same way every time. For once lets go get a hog up front..

Its the equivalent of when music is technically-sound and has decent rhythm and a nice melody, but lacks soul, lacks emotion.
Its the Lamb of God vs Pantera debate....

Give me Dimebag over Mark Morton any day of the week.
0 x
Please just watch(04:39-05:18):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxXCuSyj18M&t=4m39s
This is a dog.
Compare that to this guy (00:46-01:01):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar3ioQywcAc&t=0m45s
"It's ok to hit the bag"

User avatar
84BreaksAnkles
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Re: Perplexing draft

Post by 84BreaksAnkles » Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:09 am

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:16 am
Dantzler was considered a top 10 corner by just about everybody. He was successful against both Chase and Jefferson. I'll take that. Cleveland was considered a late first round or early second round player. We got him late 2nd. The pick we traded away was the next to last pick of the third round. We turned it into a late 4 a 5th a 6th and a 7th. Hard to complain about that. We picked up 3 likely starters already with possibilities of more. I will gladly take that.
So was Justin Gilbert. So was Eli Apple. All I'm asking is use your own eyes. Stop just consuming whats fed to you and not seeking the truth for yourself.
0 x
Please just watch(04:39-05:18):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxXCuSyj18M&t=4m39s
This is a dog.
Compare that to this guy (00:46-01:01):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar3ioQywcAc&t=0m45s
"It's ok to hit the bag"

User avatar
VikingsVictorious
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Re: Perplexing draft

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:36 am

84BreaksAnkles wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:09 am
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:16 am
Dantzler was considered a top 10 corner by just about everybody. He was successful against both Chase and Jefferson. I'll take that. Cleveland was considered a late first round or early second round player. We got him late 2nd. The pick we traded away was the next to last pick of the third round. We turned it into a late 4 a 5th a 6th and a 7th. Hard to complain about that. We picked up 3 likely starters already with possibilities of more. I will gladly take that.
So was Justin Gilbert. So was Eli Apple. All I'm asking is use your own eyes. Stop just consuming whats fed to you and not seeking the truth for yourself.
I do that. I make my own board, but it's biased. You're biased. So I thought it would be better to go by consensus. we made one trade in the first round that I think it's obvious we got the player we wanted all along plus an early 4th and a very late 5th. That's a win.
We made another trade with the next to last pick of the third round with unknown outcome and people are ready to blow a gasket. It will be fun seeing how this plays out tomorrow.
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Re: Perplexing draft

Post by 84BreaksAnkles » Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:38 am

I hear ya there and I agree, but you don’t see any merit in moving up a time or two? Do we really need 13 picks on day 3?
2 x
Please just watch(04:39-05:18):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxXCuSyj18M&t=4m39s
This is a dog.
Compare that to this guy (00:46-01:01):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar3ioQywcAc&t=0m45s
"It's ok to hit the bag"

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Re: Perplexing draft

Post by Maelstrom88 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:06 am

I think they got pretty good value objectively on all the picks. Will they work out? I have no idea but they didn't reach for any of them according to pretty much every source I can find. What specifically would you have done? What players would you have liked to draft and where? Big maulers don't fit a zone scheme and I value pass blocking more anyway. Can't please everyone.. :confused:
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Re: Perplexing draft

Post by IIsweet » Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:05 am

Completely agree with you. Always trading down and accumulating picks. Why never using them to move up?
We keep bringing in these kids and replacing them with next years group.
The Vikings might end up drafting 17 players !!!! Can only keep 55 players on roster and 10 PS. I get having talent for competition and that makes players and teams better, but at what point are you not developing your players because it's a revolving door. Create competition amongst better players instead of a plethora of bodies drafted in 5th - 7th rd.
They are long shots. Why not make studs compete against studs ?
Maybe that is the philosophy.
Keep your big money guys, early rd draft picks and FA, happy with minimal competition, but a dog fight for backup roles with young late round guys that are interchangeable.
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Re: Perplexing draft

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:53 am

84BreaksAnkles wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:38 am
I hear ya there and I agree, but you don’t see any merit in moving up a time or two? Do we really need 13 picks on day 3?
I see merit in moving up, but in this case we are lucky we didn't.
Vikings tried to move up for Jefferson. It would have probably cost us pick 58 or 89 to do it and we got him anyway.
Next player we most likely would have traded up for Ezra Cleveland Got him anyway.
Next Player Maybe Jordan Elliott would have cost us 89 Dantzler and 105 which we ended up trading down for 4 picks

Do you think any of those would have been a good move.
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Re: Perplexing draft

Post by Fat Stupid Loser » Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:51 am

IIsweet wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:05 am
Completely agree with you. Always trading down and accumulating picks. Why never using them to move up?
We keep bringing in these kids and replacing them with next years group.
The Vikings might end up drafting 17 players !!!! Can only keep 55 players on roster and 10 PS. I get having talent for competition and that makes players and teams better, but at what point are you not developing your players because it's a revolving door. Create competition amongst better players instead of a plethora of bodies drafted in 5th - 7th rd.
They are long shots. Why not make studs compete against studs ?
Maybe that is the philosophy.
Keep your big money guys, early rd draft picks and FA, happy with minimal competition, but a dog fight for backup roles with young late round guys that are interchangeable.
I agree, 5,6 7th round picks. Who cares? 90% of them aren't going to make an NFL team. Trade them all up for a couple guys that can actually make the team and contribute. Drafting after the 4th or early 5th round is generally an exercise in futility. There are always a few guys that surprise but statistically not worth stockpiling these useless picks other than to move up. Which doesn't happen very much because everyone understands how invaluable those picks really are.
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Re: Perplexing draft

Post by halfgiz » Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:19 am

I would have liked to seen us make a try for Madubuike, Josh Jones or a few others.
Rick sat there with 11 picks and didn’t even make a move.
13 picks for today is ridiculous. I for one will be glad when Rick is gone and we start trying to add 2nd and 3 round personnel instead of 7th round people.
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Re: Perplexing draft

Post by RandyMoss84 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:36 am

halfgiz wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:19 am
I would have liked to seen us make a try for Madubuike, Josh Jones or a few others.
Rick sat there with 11 picks and didn’t even make a move.
13 picks for today is ridiculous. I for one will be glad when Rick is gone and we start trying to add 2nd and 3 round personnel instead of 7th round people.
I do not know why you are complaining about it? Do you rather be the Saints and have no picks at all today?
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Re: Perplexing draft

Post by halfgiz » Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:47 am

RandyMoss84 wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:36 am
halfgiz wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:19 am
I would have liked to seen us make a try for Madubuike, Josh Jones or a few others.
Rick sat there with 11 picks and didn’t even make a move.
13 picks for today is ridiculous. I for one will be glad when Rick is gone and we start trying to add 2nd and 3 round personnel instead of 7th round people.
I do not know why you are complaining about it? Do you rather be the Saints and have no picks at all today?
Rick's interview after the first round yest., stated he was going to parlay all the later round picks to move up into tonight's rounds...How did that work out??
Saints didn’t want them picks. But they sure wanted our 105 pick.
Explain to me why we need 13 picks today. And when the final cut comes see how many of these 13 picks is on the roster.
I would sooner have added a couple more quality players.
Right or Wrong just my opinion.
1 x