Teddy Bridgewater

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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:44 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:56 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:06 am


Leadership is so huge. One thing about Case, you watched him in 2017 and it was clear he was giving it his all nearly every game. I have never seen a QB who played at his peak so consistently, and I think that affected the players around him to see him do that. It is just too bad his peak was Aaron Rodgers on a very bad day or we probably win the SB that year.
Have you seen a Vikings QB that hasn’t given it there all? Like any proof of any QB not giving it there all? Any obvious signs they weren’t giving it their all? These guys are paid millions and if for some reason they aren’t “giving it their all”, they’d be benched or it would be clear as day. Even guys that weren’t good like Christian ponder. I don’t think there was ever once where ponder didn’t give it his all. Christian ponder just wasn’t good. The whole effort thing and giving it their all is just a weak argument IMO. It’s something you 1.) can never prove and 2.) have no real idea about. Effort and giving it their all more or less just isn’t the correct wording. These guys don’t go out there every week and not try. Watching pre game speeches and stuff, I know someone like cousins gets his team pumped up. So did keenum. I don’t think teddy was as vocal but was more liked as a person. But I don’t think any of our QBs as of late lacked leadership in any way.
I wouldn't say that anybody didn't give it their all. But I would say that some have let situations get to them more than others.

Back in 2013, I was at the Vikings home game against Cleveland. Here we were, fresh off a playoff season, AP at his zenith, and Christian Ponder having finished 2012 fairly strong. Ponder had not gotten off to a particularly good start for the Vikings that year, and he absolutely stunk up the joint against the Browns. I remember Brian Hoyer outplaying Ponder huge in that game, and Josh Gordon absolutely lighting up our defense. We ended up losing the game late to the hapless Browns in the home opener to drop to 0-3.

We had great seats, 50 yard line, 24th row, and I was watching Ponder on the sidelines. Around the middle of the third quarter, after another 3-and-out and the fans starting to boo, you could see that he was gone. Had absolutely given up. Packed it in. His teammates wanted nothing to do with him. Avoided him like the plague. He wasn't looking at photos, talking on a phone, nothing. We had binoculars, and you could see it on his face, plain as day. He had checked out. And honestly, it looked like his team had checked out on him. Those were truly the dark days.

That's probably rare in the NFL, but it does happen. You never saw Keenum do that. If there was one thing you could say about Case Keenum in 2017, it's that if you asked him to run through a brick wall, he'd probably run through the wrong one before you could tell him which wall you were talking about. And it didn't matter the score. At times, I wonder where Cousins' mind is when he's having bad games, but I saw a lot less of that last year than in his first year, especially after the first Chicago game. Late in 2018, there were times Cousins looked bewildered, like he was almost going WTF with DeFilippo's offense.

I just think a quarterback's leadership has to extend beyond pregame buildup and rah-rah speeches.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:12 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:44 am

Back in 2013, I was at the Vikings home game against Cleveland. Here we were, fresh off a playoff season, AP at his zenith, and Christian Ponder having finished 2012 fairly strong. Ponder had not gotten off to a particularly good start for the Vikings that year, and he absolutely stunk up the joint against the Browns. I remember Brian Hoyer outplaying Ponder huge in that game, and Josh Gordon absolutely lighting up our defense. We ended up losing the game late to the hapless Browns in the home opener to drop to 0-3.

We had great seats, 50 yard line, 24th row, and I was watching Ponder on the sidelines. Around the middle of the third quarter, after another 3-and-out and the fans starting to boo, you could see that he was gone. Had absolutely given up. Packed it in. His teammates wanted nothing to do with him. Avoided him like the plague. He wasn't looking at photos, talking on a phone, nothing. We had binoculars, and you could see it on his face, plain as day. He had checked out. And honestly, it looked like his team had checked out on him. Those were truly the dark days.
The 2014 Packer game Ponder started was the one that truly hit home for me how much the team hated having Ponder at QB. It was a completely different team that played that game versus the one that played with Cassel and Bridgewater.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:18 am

Case was on almost all the time. It is just his "on" was that of a top 10 QB's average day.

That is a pretty big knock on his potential as a starting QB, but it also probably was very inspiring for his teammates.
Yeah case I would say was above a game managing QB that year but also not far from it. There were quite a few games that were won mainly because of our #1 defense in the nfl. I feel like you look at it as winning means that he was “on” and that’s not the case. Just like it wasn’t with teddy. I’ve said before, you give cousins the 2017 defense this past year and you’d see a drastic difference in record. At worst we’re a 13-3 team. That defense was a life saver for keenum. Especially when he made his bonehead “throw it up and hope” passes. It would’ve even saved cousins a few times this year.

I guess what bothers me is when fans (not saying you’re claiming this) say: “Well keenum was better, he went 13-3 and brought us to the NFCC game”. When you have the number one defense in the nfl, you could have below average QB play and still make a run or at least get to the playoffs. Look how many times it happened in the last 5 years. 2015 broncos, 2016 Texans, 2017 Vikings, 2017 jaguars, 2018 bears, 2019 Bills

The QBs of those teams:

-a terrible Peyton Manning
-Brock Osweiler/Tom Savage
-Case Keenum
-Blake Bortles
-Mitch Trubisky
-Josh Allen

That’s bad. If you have a legitimate defense they can easily carry you to the playoffs and beyond. It’s about the team that surrounds these QBs. And just about every one of them had a lot of talented players, just not the quarterback. They had to just “get by” and manage without screwing up too much. That was keenum. It was also Teddy. I don’t look at either of them as “winners”. Put them on the dolphins and let me know how much winning they do. They aren’t finding ways to “get it done” there trust me.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:43 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:44 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:56 am


Have you seen a Vikings QB that hasn’t given it there all? Like any proof of any QB not giving it there all? Any obvious signs they weren’t giving it their all? These guys are paid millions and if for some reason they aren’t “giving it their all”, they’d be benched or it would be clear as day. Even guys that weren’t good like Christian ponder. I don’t think there was ever once where ponder didn’t give it his all. Christian ponder just wasn’t good. The whole effort thing and giving it their all is just a weak argument IMO. It’s something you 1.) can never prove and 2.) have no real idea about. Effort and giving it their all more or less just isn’t the correct wording. These guys don’t go out there every week and not try. Watching pre game speeches and stuff, I know someone like cousins gets his team pumped up. So did keenum. I don’t think teddy was as vocal but was more liked as a person. But I don’t think any of our QBs as of late lacked leadership in any way.
I wouldn't say that anybody didn't give it their all. But I would say that some have let situations get to them more than others.

Back in 2013, I was at the Vikings home game against Cleveland. Here we were, fresh off a playoff season, AP at his zenith, and Christian Ponder having finished 2012 fairly strong. Ponder had not gotten off to a particularly good start for the Vikings that year, and he absolutely stunk up the joint against the Browns. I remember Brian Hoyer outplaying Ponder huge in that game, and Josh Gordon absolutely lighting up our defense. We ended up losing the game late to the hapless Browns in the home opener to drop to 0-3.

We had great seats, 50 yard line, 24th row, and I was watching Ponder on the sidelines. Around the middle of the third quarter, after another 3-and-out and the fans starting to boo, you could see that he was gone. Had absolutely given up. Packed it in. His teammates wanted nothing to do with him. Avoided him like the plague. He wasn't looking at photos, talking on a phone, nothing. We had binoculars, and you could see it on his face, plain as day. He had checked out. And honestly, it looked like his team had checked out on him. Those were truly the dark days.

That's probably rare in the NFL, but it does happen. You never saw Keenum do that. If there was one thing you could say about Case Keenum in 2017, it's that if you asked him to run through a brick wall, he'd probably run through the wrong one before you could tell him which wall you were talking about. And it didn't matter the score. At times, I wonder where Cousins' mind is when he's having bad games, but I saw a lot less of that last year than in his first year, especially after the first Chicago game. Late in 2018, there were times Cousins looked bewildered, like he was almost going WTF with DeFilippo's offense.

I just think a quarterback's leadership has to extend beyond pregame buildup and rah-rah speeches.
See I don’t get that vibe with cousins. Anytime he’s on the sideline and struggling, you see him talking with players and his nose buried in his tablet.

I was at the Denver game this year. The amount of times cousins as well as the team was booed by halftime was beyond belief. They were then booed off the field at halftime. When you watch the wired sound clips from cousins and diggs, they were out to kill someone in that 2nd half. Do I see keenum making a comeback like that and rally from THAT much down, maybe off his classic running around throwing up prayer heroics. Teddy? No absolutely not. Because in situations like that you need to be aggressive and Teddy was the polar opposite of that. Like when we’re down by 2 scores or more, I have more confidence in cousins to come back than I ever did with teddy or case. Because cousins actually has the arm talent and passing ability to do it. Case had the gambling mentality where he could throw 3 picks just as easily as he could throw a few TDs so you just didn’t know but you had crap in your pants every time he dropped back. As for teddy, was he was out of the game managing comfort zone and needed to be relied on from a passing standpoint, it just wasn’t happening.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:05 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:18 am
Case was on almost all the time. It is just his "on" was that of a top 10 QB's average day.

That is a pretty big knock on his potential as a starting QB, but it also probably was very inspiring for his teammates.
Yeah case I would say was above a game managing QB that year but also not far from it. There were quite a few games that were won mainly because of our #1 defense in the nfl. I feel like you look at it as winning means that he was “on” and that’s not the case. Just like it wasn’t with teddy. I’ve said before, you give cousins the 2017 defense this past year and you’d see a drastic difference in record. At worst we’re a 13-3 team. That defense was a life saver for keenum. Especially when he made his bonehead “throw it up and hope” passes. It would’ve even saved cousins a few times this year.

I guess what bothers me is when fans (not saying you’re claiming this) say: “Well keenum was better, he went 13-3 and brought us to the NFCC game”. When you have the number one defense in the nfl, you could have below average QB play and still make a run or at least get to the playoffs. Look how many times it happened in the last 5 years. 2015 broncos, 2016 Texans, 2017 Vikings, 2017 jaguars, 2018 bears, 2019 Bills

The QBs of those teams:

-a terrible Peyton Manning
-Brock Osweiler/Tom Savage
-Case Keenum
-Blake Bortles
-Mitch Trubisky
-Josh Allen
What do those QBs have to do with Case? He had a good year when playing with a great defense, those QBs had mediocre to bad ones playing with theirs.

Scoring efficiency per drive:
Broncos: 24th
Houston: 29th
Vikings: 8th
Jacksonville: 13th
Bears: 11th
Buffalo: 24th

The Bears being 11th was surprising, but I think Nagy caught a lot of teams off guard with his offense.

Case lead a top 10 offense, had a great QBR, and ran a very efficient offense. The closest game I can see where he was carried to a win by the D was against GB and Atlanta even though his individual stats were fantastic in that game. Maybe Baltimore too, I don't remember that game well.
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:18 am
That’s bad. If you have a legitimate defense they can easily carry you to the playoffs and beyond. It’s about the team that surrounds these QBs. And just about every one of them had a lot of talented players, just not the quarterback. They had to just “get by” and manage without screwing up too much. That was keenum. It was also Teddy. I don’t look at either of them as “winners”. Put them on the dolphins and let me know how much winning they do. They aren’t finding ways to “get it done” there trust me.
What is bad? That he is in the same company of a QB who won a lot of games with a #1 defense. Brady is in that same company, it means nothing.

Keenum does need a great team around him to succeed, I won't argue that. He played to the utmost of his ability nearly every game with that great team though. That means a lot to his team.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:28 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:05 pm

What do those QBs have to do with Case? He had a good year when playing with a great defense, those QBs had mediocre to bad ones playing with theirs.

Scoring efficiency per drive:
Broncos: 24th
Houston: 29th
Vikings: 8th
Jacksonville: 13th
Bears: 11th
Buffalo: 24th

The Bears being 11th was surprising, but I think Nagy caught a lot of teams off guard with his offense.

Case lead a top 10 offense, had a great QBR, and ran a very efficient offense. The closest game I can see where he was carried to a win by the D was against GB and Atlanta even though his individual stats were fantastic in that game. Maybe Baltimore too, I don't remember that game well.
They have to do with case because it shows that teams can win/go on runs in the playoffs with below average QBs. Green Bay, Atlanta, Baltimore, played poorly vs Carolina, played poorly against Detroit, and the fact that our defense held the rams to 7 points and forced timely turnovers. The GB games are so hard to judge because they were so bad without Rodgers. Nobody is saying case had a bad season but we all know that he’s also not a good QB. My whole point is that bad QBs look like “winners” because they were surrounded with a boatload of talent and basically need to just not screw up. Some fans were blinded by “13-3” with case keenum. Just like I think fans were blinded by “11-5” with teddy.
What is bad? That he is in the same company of a QB who won a lot of games with a #1 defense. Brady is in that same company, it means nothing.

Keenum does need a great team around him to succeed, I won't argue that. He played to the utmost of his ability nearly every game with that great team though. That means a lot to his team.
Those are simply examples of no matter how bad your play is, you’re still going to win games with an elite defense. The QB simply has to limit mistakes. But how do you claim he played to his “utmost ability”? He didn’t. Some games, yeah for sure. Others, no he didn’t. No less the two most important games, he was the initial cause of the team spiraling downhill. We were all over New Orleans, then he throws one of the famous “let me play jackpot and hope my guy comes down with it”, in our own end no less. And then Philly it was what? 7-7 or 14-7 Philly and he throws a terrible pick 6 and never recovered and it became out of control and we were embarrassed. Which was just as much on the D, but keenum sure didn’t help. Again, I’m not saying he had a bad year, but having a defense like he did makes things 1000 times easier and will at times carry you to a win.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Maelstrom88 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:01 pm

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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:01 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:28 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:05 pm

What do those QBs have to do with Case? He had a good year when playing with a great defense, those QBs had mediocre to bad ones playing with theirs.

Scoring efficiency per drive:
Broncos: 24th
Houston: 29th
Vikings: 8th
Jacksonville: 13th
Bears: 11th
Buffalo: 24th

The Bears being 11th was surprising, but I think Nagy caught a lot of teams off guard with his offense.

Case lead a top 10 offense, had a great QBR, and ran a very efficient offense. The closest game I can see where he was carried to a win by the D was against GB and Atlanta even though his individual stats were fantastic in that game. Maybe Baltimore too, I don't remember that game well.
They have to do with case because it shows that teams can win/go on runs in the playoffs with below average QBs. Green Bay, Atlanta, Baltimore, played poorly vs Carolina, played poorly against Detroit, and the fact that our defense held the rams to 7 points and forced timely turnovers. The GB games are so hard to judge because they were so bad without Rodgers. Nobody is saying case had a bad season but we all know that he’s also not a good QB. My whole point is that bad QBs look like “winners” because they were surrounded with a boatload of talent and basically need to just not screw up. Some fans were blinded by “13-3” with case keenum. Just like I think fans were blinded by “11-5” with teddy.
What is bad? That he is in the same company of a QB who won a lot of games with a #1 defense. Brady is in that same company, it means nothing.

Keenum does need a great team around him to succeed, I won't argue that. He played to the utmost of his ability nearly every game with that great team though. That means a lot to his team.
Those are simply examples of no matter how bad your play is, you’re still going to win games with an elite defense. The QB simply has to limit mistakes. But how do you claim he played to his “utmost ability”? He didn’t. Some games, yeah for sure. Others, no he didn’t. No less the two most important games, he was the initial cause of the team spiraling downhill. We were all over New Orleans, then he throws one of the famous “let me play jackpot and hope my guy comes down with it”, in our own end no less. And then Philly it was what? 7-7 or 14-7 Philly and he throws a terrible pick 6 and never recovered and it became out of control and we were embarrassed. Which was just as much on the D, but keenum sure didn’t help. Again, I’m not saying he had a bad year, but having a defense like he did makes things 1000 times easier and will at times carry you to a win.
Yep, I think his complete failure in his final game as a Viking is a prime example of why he just wasn't good enough. He was a QB who needed a great run game, WRs, and defense to win football games, and even with those, he was never going to be win it all.

Eventually you need a QB who can compete against the better teams in the NFL, or the divisional round is more than likely as far as you will ever get.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:47 pm

Garbage meme.

Teddy was a missed chipshot FG away from getting just as far in the playoffs. In just his second year, making a tiny fraction of what Cousins made to take a 13 win team to 1 playoff in 2 seasons.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:50 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:47 pm
Garbage meme.

Teddy was a missed chipshot FG away from getting just as far in the playoffs. In just his second year, making a tiny fraction of what Cousins made to take a 13 win team to 1 playoff in 2 seasons.
:lol: :lol: I swear that wasnt me that made up that meme but at the same time, very true. Sure, Teddy was a FG away from his first win but more like Blair Walsh was a FG away from his first playoff win, given that's all we got that game was....FGs. And were carried by....our defense. But that 146 yard, 6.1 YPA, 3 sack day and HE almost got his first playoff win? HE, did next to nothing. Again, I dont get how Teddy gets any sort of credit for that game outside of what? Completing a 10 yard out to Rudy in the final minute? In two games against seattle that year, our offense failed to score a single touchdown. Teddy didnt break 275 yards in two games, didnt throw a TD in either game and had 1 interception. That's like saying "Mitch Trubisky nearly got his first playoff win if it wasnt for Cody Parkey". Ok? Doesnt mean Mitch Trubisky is a good QB
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by fiestavike » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:54 pm

Teddy was a good one for us. Too bad he got hurt. Hopefully we'll draft another QB this year. Its time to give ourselves a real superbowl window with a young cheap QB.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:52 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:54 pm
Teddy was a good one for us. Too bad he got hurt. Hopefully we'll draft another QB this year. Its time to give ourselves a real superbowl window with a young cheap QB.
Teddy was a good person or a good QB? I think people fell in love with the person and the story, not the actual QB.

As for drafting a QB, wont happen in the early rounds this year. Way too many needs to fill elsewhere unless someone unexpected falls to us.
Last edited by Pondering Her Percy on Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:10 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:50 pm

:lol: :lol: I swear that wasnt me that made up that meme but at the same time, very true. Sure, Teddy was a FG away from his first win but more like Blair Walsh was a FG away from his first playoff win, given that's all we got that game was....FGs. And were carried by....our defense. But that 146 yard, 6.1 YPA, 3 sack day and HE almost got his first playoff win? HE, did next to nothing.
Kirk Cousins in regulation versus the Saints in perfect weather conditions, not sub 0 temps: 185 yards, 0 TDs. He was carried to OT by his defense and run game but struggled for the majority of that Saints game. It was a chip shot missed Lutz FG that helped us even make it to OT and a flip of a coin that got us the ball first.

He then completely crapped the bed against the 49ers. 8 quarters of bad QB play with one good pass in OT. That is Kirk Cousins in the playoffs for the Vikings.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:44 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:10 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:50 pm

:lol: :lol: I swear that wasnt me that made up that meme but at the same time, very true. Sure, Teddy was a FG away from his first win but more like Blair Walsh was a FG away from his first playoff win, given that's all we got that game was....FGs. And were carried by....our defense. But that 146 yard, 6.1 YPA, 3 sack day and HE almost got his first playoff win? HE, did next to nothing.
Kirk Cousins in regulation versus the Saints in perfect weather conditions, not sub 0 temps: 185 yards, 0 TDs. He was carried to OT by his defense and run game but struggled for the majority of that Saints game. It was a chip shot missed Lutz FG that helped us even make it to OT and a flip of a coin that got us the ball first.

He then completely crapped the bed against the 49ers. 8 quarters of bad QB play with one good pass in OT. That is Kirk Cousins in the playoffs for the Vikings.
Cook ran for 3.4 yards a carry that game, how was Cousins carried by his run game? Because Cook ran the ball inside the 5 instead of Cousins throwing? Cousins averaged 7.8 YPA. The defense played well this game no doubt but they sure didnt hold the Saints to 10 points like the 2015 defense did with Seattle. And the only reason Seattle scored was due to a broken play to Baldwin.

Teddys longest passes of the game consisted of an 11 yard pass to Zach Line which was a check down, a 13 yard pass to Asiata which was a check down and an 18 yard pass to Pruitt. Then in the end he hit Rudy on an 8 yard out that he took for 24 yards. He was struggling to move the ball down the field with his arm like he did on the regular.

That's Teddy in the playoffs with the Vikings. No less we didnt even win the game. You're defending a QB that did less and lost a playoff game and ripping a QB that did more and won a playoff game. How does that make any sense at all? It's a stupid argument regardless and we're talking about a QB that is no longer on this team. So I'm not even sure what you're trying to get at at this point. You arent changing my mind regarding Cousins and I'm not changing yours in regards to Teddy. So it is what it is. I'm done.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Mothman » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:27 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:10 pm
Kirk Cousins in regulation versus the Saints in perfect weather conditions, not sub 0 temps: 185 yards, 0 TDs. He was carried to OT by his defense and run game but struggled for the majority of that Saints game. It was a chip shot missed Lutz FG that helped us even make it to OT and a flip of a coin that got us the ball first.

He then completely crapped the bed against the 49ers. 8 quarters of bad QB play with one good pass in OT. That is Kirk Cousins in the playoffs for the Vikings.
In other words, Cousins, Bridgewater, Keenum and Ponder have all been inadequate. Add Bradford and Cassel to that list too, as well as some truly forgettable backup QBs.

In the end, does it really matter if Cousins is better than Bridgewater or vice versa? They aren't on the same team, competing for the starting job. Cousins is the only one who still has a shot to lead the Vikes to a Super Bowl and you have to be pretty optimistic to think that's going to happen in the next 2 years.

The Vikes have been on this QB carousel for most of the past 3 decades and it's unlikely it will end with Kirk. We're arguing over scraps and hand-me-downs.
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