Teddy Bridgewater

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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:10 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:52 am
fiestavike wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:25 am
People evaluate things differently, and in many ways, Cousins and Bridgewater are in stark contrast. One's areas of strength seem to be precisely the other's area of weakness. Cousins style of play is apt to put up more yards and touchdowns. It might also be less valuable in terms of winning it all. Cousins might be the Run and Shoot offense in this analogy. At this point, the question is how best to win with Kirk, or how best to replace him.

Another analogy: He's a boxer who is good going forward, and terrible when going backward. Is it possible to build a team good enough that he doesn't have to go backward, even when going against the best defensive units in the business? I'm not sure. That's what it's going to take to get peak Kirk Cousins, so either we try, or we trade him after this year. So far, there hasn't been much in the offseason to indicate that we are trying to build that front, so we'll see what happens in the draft. The worst possible course of action is to commit to Kirk and then put him in position where he has to play well 'going backward'. It's never going to happen. That's not who he is.

I actually think the combat sport analogy is very helpful. There are guys who look like they are going to be great. They have all the tools, they are blowing through opponents, but then they find a guy who doesn't back up, who is able to get them on their heels, and suddenly they have no answer. It might just be some journeyman 'stepping stone' who ends up being too much for them. They can't fight from that position at all.

I see Teddy as sort of a potential Pernell Whitaker type guy. His tools aren't flashy. He isn't knocking guys out. But he wins, and its hard to hit him. Fans might not love his fights, especially casual fans. the fights are too defensive. There aren't enough fireworks, but he does enough and in the right moments, and he's damn hard to beat. Fans have always been pretty oblivious to things like minimizing disastrous plays...it doesn't show up as much in the stat sheet. It might just be an incomplete pass, (or a 3 yard loss instead of a 10 yard loss), but that might be an incomplete pass that allows the play 2 plays down the road to be a first down. Honestly, that kind of thing is just something most people don't see, or notice, or appreciate, but it's very important when it comes to playing winning, complimentary football. That's being able to play well even when you are forced onto your back foot, and to win a championship, that's more important than just being able to play well when going forward, IMO.
I don't care what anybody thinks of Teddy Bridgewater or Kirk Cousins. This is a smart post. The Pernell Whitaker take is spot-on. Great fighter, never conjured up images of Sugar Ray Leonard. He just won.

Not everything is measured in numbers. In this day of uber-statistics, that's hard for a lot of people to grasp, but it's pretty easy for me to see that when the pressure's on, Kirk Cousins shrinks from the moment. People point to the playoff win over New Orleans. Yes, that was one for the ages, and I was singing his praises after that win. But was that the highest-pressure situation in which he's won in Minnesota? Tie game and the first possession of overtime? What happens to Cousins when he HAS to deliver or the Vikings LOSE? Thus far in Minnesota, there's been one game, against a 7-9 Denver team, where that was the case and he came through. But even in THAT game, the winning touchdown came with 6:10 to play. He did tie the game late against Green Bay in 2018. Credit for that. But other times, when we NEED a drive, we don't get a drive. Seattle this year was a great example. Red hot throughout the fourth to get us back in the game, then disappears on the final drive. And mind you, I'm a Cousins SUPPORTER.

Am I saying Teddy is better? No. Because honestly, who knows how good Teddy really is? He's started 5 games since 2015. But to hold up Kirk Cousins as the vastly superior quarterback simply because his numbers are better? Not this guy. I pretty much know what Cousins is ... a guy who will succeed if everything is right, if everything is moving forward, as fiestavike says. Teddy? Who knows? He's 16-5 in his last 21 starts. That HAS to mean SOMETHING.

I wish Teddy well. He's finally getting his chance after 5 painful years.
Nobody is saying cousins is better “just because of numbers”. The initial comparison was comparing 2015 teddy to 2019 cousins. That’s what we were comparing. I mean in general, if anyone thinks teddy is a superior passer than I don’t know what to tell you. But there is more to it than that. Either way, I compared the two seasons quite close. I don’t know how anyone can possibly say teddy performed at a higher level in 2015. He hardly performed IMO. But clearly this argument is now pointing in another direction. But again, the initial comparison was 2015 and 2019
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by fiestavike » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:45 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:52 am
fiestavike wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:25 am
People evaluate things differently, and in many ways, Cousins and Bridgewater are in stark contrast. One's areas of strength seem to be precisely the other's area of weakness. Cousins style of play is apt to put up more yards and touchdowns. It might also be less valuable in terms of winning it all. Cousins might be the Run and Shoot offense in this analogy. At this point, the question is how best to win with Kirk, or how best to replace him.

Another analogy: He's a boxer who is good going forward, and terrible when going backward. Is it possible to build a team good enough that he doesn't have to go backward, even when going against the best defensive units in the business? I'm not sure. That's what it's going to take to get peak Kirk Cousins, so either we try, or we trade him after this year. So far, there hasn't been much in the offseason to indicate that we are trying to build that front, so we'll see what happens in the draft. The worst possible course of action is to commit to Kirk and then put him in position where he has to play well 'going backward'. It's never going to happen. That's not who he is.

I actually think the combat sport analogy is very helpful. There are guys who look like they are going to be great. They have all the tools, they are blowing through opponents, but then they find a guy who doesn't back up, who is able to get them on their heels, and suddenly they have no answer. It might just be some journeyman 'stepping stone' who ends up being too much for them. They can't fight from that position at all.

I see Teddy as sort of a potential Pernell Whitaker type guy. His tools aren't flashy. He isn't knocking guys out. But he wins, and its hard to hit him. Fans might not love his fights, especially casual fans. the fights are too defensive. There aren't enough fireworks, but he does enough and in the right moments, and he's damn hard to beat. Fans have always been pretty oblivious to things like minimizing disastrous plays...it doesn't show up as much in the stat sheet. It might just be an incomplete pass, (or a 3 yard loss instead of a 10 yard loss), but that might be an incomplete pass that allows the play 2 plays down the road to be a first down. Honestly, that kind of thing is just something most people don't see, or notice, or appreciate, but it's very important when it comes to playing winning, complimentary football. That's being able to play well even when you are forced onto your back foot, and to win a championship, that's more important than just being able to play well when going forward, IMO.
I don't care what anybody thinks of Teddy Bridgewater or Kirk Cousins. This is a smart post. The Pernell Whitaker take is spot-on. Great fighter, never conjured up images of Sugar Ray Leonard. He just won.

Thanks Kapp! I'm glad somebody picked up what I was putting down.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:11 am

fiestavike wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:45 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:52 am

I don't care what anybody thinks of Teddy Bridgewater or Kirk Cousins. This is a smart post. The Pernell Whitaker take is spot-on. Great fighter, never conjured up images of Sugar Ray Leonard. He just won.

Thanks Kapp! I'm glad somebody picked up what I was putting down.
I follow boxing/UFC but this was a little before my time so I apologize for that going over my head.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by RandyMoss84 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:24 am

I find it interesting that we have a 5 page thread about a player that is not on the team anymore
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:34 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:02 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:41 am


By that logic, the Viking were 22nd best passing offense and worse than Carolina. Want to dig a little deeper on that one or are you really comfortable claiming Kirk Cousins' passing attack was worse than Kyle Allen/Will Grier's?

Maybe yardage numbers in and of themselves don't even come close to telling the whole story.
If you’re going to sit there and claim they are the “worst passing offense in the nfl” then back it up. Because I don’t see them being dead last in many categories. But I know exactly why you’re saying it.
Nope, let's go with the Panthers with Kyle Allen/Will Grier being a better passing attack than the Vikings with Kirk Cousins. I am good stopping right there.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Dames » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:37 am

RandyMoss84 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:24 am
I find it interesting that we have a 5 page thread about a player that is not on the team anymore
It's a similar fascination that fans get with the backup QB when the starter is not living up to exceptions. This is a little different since Bridgewater was our starter once, but it's pretty close. We can talk about it forever, but in the end, nobody will ever know. :gone:
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:20 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:34 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:02 am


If you’re going to sit there and claim they are the “worst passing offense in the nfl” then back it up. Because I don’t see them being dead last in many categories. But I know exactly why you’re saying it.
Nope, let's go with the Panthers with Kyle Allen/Will Grier being a better passing attack than the Vikings with Kirk Cousins. I am good stopping right there.
Of course you want to stop there. Because you can’t backup Carolina being “the worst passing offense“ in the league. Instead you want to make some ridiculous claim. No surprise there
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:27 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:20 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:34 am


Nope, let's go with the Panthers with Kyle Allen/Will Grier being a better passing attack than the Vikings with Kirk Cousins. I am good stopping right there.
Of course you want to stop there. Because you can’t backup Carolina being “the worst passing offense“ in the league. Instead you want to make some ridiculous claim. No surprise there
I am just using the stat you posted as proof Carolina's passing game was 20th in the NFL. Why is my claim ridiculous while your's is valid?

That doesn't seem very fair at all.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:50 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:27 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:20 pm


Of course you want to stop there. Because you can’t backup Carolina being “the worst passing offense“ in the league. Instead you want to make some ridiculous claim. No surprise there
I am just using the stat you posted as proof Carolina's passing game was 20th in the NFL. Why is my claim ridiculous while your's is valid?

That doesn't seem very fair at all.
All I said was “isn’t that where they fell”? It was a question. Obviously there is more that goes into 1 stat based off of average yardage. But I’d like to know what you’re basing your argument off saying they were the worst in the nfl. I’ve continued to ask this and you continue to ignore it. Regardless, Carolina has a new coach and just added robby Anderson.

And in regards to earlier saying I’m hedging my bet about mccaffery, yeah I 100% am. The guy went over 1,000 yards rushing and caught the second most passes of anyone in the nfl and went over 1000 yards. He was only behind mike Thomas In receptions. So why would Carolinas offense not run strictly through mccaffery? I can guarantee they are going to lean on mccaffery way more than they will teddy. It’s not like mccaffery is going to be a non factor and teddy is going to turn into pat Mahomes throwing 40-50 times a game. Everything will run through mccaffery and the question is, when he gets shut down, what can Teddy do? We’ll see
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by VikingsVictorious » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:27 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:34 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:02 am


If you’re going to sit there and claim they are the “worst passing offense in the nfl” then back it up. Because I don’t see them being dead last in many categories. But I know exactly why you’re saying it.
Nope, let's go with the Panthers with Kyle Allen/Will Grier being a better passing attack than the Vikings with Kirk Cousins. I am good stopping right there.
Total yards doesn't matter to me at all. It's the efficiency. Yards per attempt. Converting first downs and scoring touchdowns.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:48 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:50 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:27 pm


I am just using the stat you posted as proof Carolina's passing game was 20th in the NFL. Why is my claim ridiculous while your's is valid?

That doesn't seem very fair at all.
All I said was “isn’t that where they fell”? It was a question. Obviously there is more that goes into 1 stat based off of average yardage. But I’d like to know what you’re basing your argument off saying they were the worst in the nfl. I’ve continued to ask this and you continue to ignore it. Regardless, Carolina has a new coach and just added robby Anderson.

And in regards to earlier saying I’m hedging my bet about mccaffery, yeah I 100% am. The guy went over 1,000 yards rushing and caught the second most passes of anyone in the nfl and went over 1000 yards. He was only behind mike Thomas In receptions. So why would Carolinas offense not run strictly through mccaffery? I can guarantee they are going to lean on mccaffery way more than they will teddy. It’s not like mccaffery is going to be a non factor and teddy is going to turn into pat Mahomes throwing 40-50 times a game. Everything will run through mccaffery and the question is, when he gets shut down, what can Teddy do? We’ll see
https://www.catscratchreader.com/2020/1 ... arterbacks
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:09 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:27 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:34 am


Nope, let's go with the Panthers with Kyle Allen/Will Grier being a better passing attack than the Vikings with Kirk Cousins. I am good stopping right there.
Total yards doesn't matter to me at all. It's the efficiency. Yards per attempt. Converting first downs and scoring touchdowns.
This is the correct.

In the end, the only QB stats that matter are the ones derived from how they helped/hindered the offense to score efficiently and win football games.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:53 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:09 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:27 pm

Total yards doesn't matter to me at all. It's the efficiency. Yards per attempt. Converting first downs and scoring touchdowns.
This is the correct.

In the end, the only QB stats that matter are the ones derived from how they helped/hindered the offense to score efficiently and win football games.
And not saying Kyle Allen was good by any means but he also started off 5-1. I mean I'm pretty sure nobody's pass offense was worse than Washington. Pitt was also terrible. There were a few.

I mean if someone said you have to pick one of these QBs as your starter who do you pick?

-Kyle Allen (Car)
-Dwayne Haskins (Was)
-Mason Rudolph (Pit)
-Ryan Finley (Cin)
-David Blough (Det)

I'm probably pick Allen. Which doesnt say much being in the category of those starting QBs this year but saying Carolina's pass offense was bad, sure. But to say they were the worst in the league, no. There were much worse. Washington's #2 WR statistically was Steven Sims. I follow the NFL through and through and am in multiple dynasty fantasy league, I can name players that the average fan has probably never heard of not just on the Vikings but any team, but I'll tell you right now I didnt have a damn clue who Steven Sims was. Washington was the definition of having "no weapons". Their best weapon was McLaurin who's a promising rookie and a 90 year old AP. Haskins is a QB I feel bad for for having no weapons.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:48 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:10 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:52 am

I don't care what anybody thinks of Teddy Bridgewater or Kirk Cousins. This is a smart post. The Pernell Whitaker take is spot-on. Great fighter, never conjured up images of Sugar Ray Leonard. He just won.

Not everything is measured in numbers. In this day of uber-statistics, that's hard for a lot of people to grasp, but it's pretty easy for me to see that when the pressure's on, Kirk Cousins shrinks from the moment. People point to the playoff win over New Orleans. Yes, that was one for the ages, and I was singing his praises after that win. But was that the highest-pressure situation in which he's won in Minnesota? Tie game and the first possession of overtime? What happens to Cousins when he HAS to deliver or the Vikings LOSE? Thus far in Minnesota, there's been one game, against a 7-9 Denver team, where that was the case and he came through. But even in THAT game, the winning touchdown came with 6:10 to play. He did tie the game late against Green Bay in 2018. Credit for that. But other times, when we NEED a drive, we don't get a drive. Seattle this year was a great example. Red hot throughout the fourth to get us back in the game, then disappears on the final drive. And mind you, I'm a Cousins SUPPORTER.

Am I saying Teddy is better? No. Because honestly, who knows how good Teddy really is? He's started 5 games since 2015. But to hold up Kirk Cousins as the vastly superior quarterback simply because his numbers are better? Not this guy. I pretty much know what Cousins is ... a guy who will succeed if everything is right, if everything is moving forward, as fiestavike says. Teddy? Who knows? He's 16-5 in his last 21 starts. That HAS to mean SOMETHING.

I wish Teddy well. He's finally getting his chance after 5 painful years.
Nobody is saying cousins is better “just because of numbers”. The initial comparison was comparing 2015 teddy to 2019 cousins. That’s what we were comparing. I mean in general, if anyone thinks teddy is a superior passer than I don’t know what to tell you. But there is more to it than that. Either way, I compared the two seasons quite close. I don’t know how anyone can possibly say teddy performed at a higher level in 2015. He hardly performed IMO. But clearly this argument is now pointing in another direction. But again, the initial comparison was 2015 and 2019
I'm not making a statement of anything, PHP, except that there's something about Teddy Bridgewater that works. He's one of those guys who somehow gets the job done. Now it certainly hasn't hurt that he's had two playoff caliber teams in front of him. No doubt. But I honestly don't understand why you want to trash the guy. He did a good job for us. Even if we won "in spite of Teddy," as you claim, he did win 11 games and would have won a playoff game if not for Blair Walsh. He also did a fantastic job for New Orleans in 2019. He'll definitely be tested in Carolina with a roster that doesn't compare to what he had in the Big Easy, but I find it impossible not to root for the guy.

And for the record, I think it's unfair to compare the work of a 2nd-year quarterback to the work of an 8th year quarterback. The sample size is small, but the more fair comparison is 2019 Teddy vs. 2019 Cousins. But even that is folly, in my opinion. Why compare? They're different quarterbacks. 2018 Tom Brady wasn't near the QB that 2007 Tom Brady was, yet 2018 Brady won the Super Bowl while 2007 Brady lost. My point being, even the same guy can be different from year to year, and so can his circumstances.

The question doesn't seem to be whether Teddy Bridgewater is better than Kirk Cousins. It's whether Teddy Bridgewater is any good at all. You apparently don't think so. I disagree. I say he's 16-5 in his last 21. Maybe he's not an all-pro. Maybe he's not HOF material. Heck, maybe he's not even as good as Kirk Cousins. But winning 76% of your games means something. He belongs in the league.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:58 am

RandyMoss84 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:24 am
I find it interesting that we have a 5 page thread about a player that is not on the team anymore
Probably the same reason we have a very long thread on the signing of Tajae Sharpe at pretty much league minimum.

We're really, really bored.
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