Teddy Bridgewater

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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:56 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:13 pm
fiestavike wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:03 pm


Teddy has a lot of strengths that have been to often maligned among vikings fans, in part because offensive production was pretty poor during his years here. I am excited for him to get another chance, and will be pulling for the panthers whenever they aren't playing the Vikings.
Offensive production was above average despite a below average line and WR corp in 2015. In 2014, the offense scored about 22 ppg in his starts, which would have put him around 16th in scoring that year. People just got hung up on his 14 passing TDs and didn't notice that offense actually did a decent job of scoring.

Carolina's defense might be the worst in the NFL. Teddy will get a lot of opportunities to try to match teams in shootouts and he should have weapons to make that possible if the line holds up for him.

I wonder what the discussion will be if he ended up with more yards and TDs than Cousins but lost more games?
In 2015, Adrian Peterson did a good job scoring. Not teddy Bridgewater. Our RB had 3 less TDs than our QB did. That alone shows that you probably have a really good RB and a below average QB. In 2014, teddys rookie year, is where teddy really showed some promise. The fact that he didn’t improve on that at all come year 2 was what stuck out. Not just his 14 touchdowns. Nearly everything was the identical. Same amount of TDs, same amount of total turnovers, 7.3 (2014) vs 7.2 (2015) YPA, less than a 1% difference in completion percentage, 23 yards less per game in year 2, nearly the same amount of 20+ yard throws and 40+ yard throws, etc. AND this was all with teddy playing 3 less games his rookie year. If anything, teddy went backwards in year 2, or at best, stayed stagnant.

And if teddy Bridgewater somehow threw for more TDs and yards than cousins, given the same amount of games, I’ll eat a crow dinner.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:37 am

fiestavike wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:21 pm
Mothman wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:02 pm


I think people simply understood that Peterson was the driving force in the offense that season. Bridgewater's effectiveness was limited. He had some strong performances but overall, he simply wasn't that impressive.

As FiestaVike said, Bridgewater has his strengths but if the Panthers find themselves trying to match teams in shootouts I think it's more likely to expose his deficiencies than reveal those strengths. I suspect they'll ask him to manage games (in the positive sense) and lean into their running game.
It was really a pretty crappy formula. The OL was terrible, Peterson was predictable, Teddy had few weapons and even less time. Given the circumstances it was pretty solid production, but they were terrible circumstances.
1.)We still have a crappy OL so there is no difference there
2.) Lets not act like he had michael Jenkins and Jerome Simpson to throw to. Teddy had diggs in 2015, rookie or not, diggs was solid. He had a younger Rudy, Wright, Thielen was on the team but didn’t play much, and Wallace. And the only reason Wallace wasn’t successful IMO, is because teddy struggled to stretch the field. If you put mike Wallace back on Pittsburgh that year, Mike Wallace is a 1,000 yard WR. He was floating around 1,000 even when he was at Miami and that was with tannehill who isn’t the greatest passer either. But then all of the sudden he struggles to even break 500 yards with the Vikings? Calls his QB out for it after he left. And sure enough goes for another 1000 yard season in Baltimore. Mike Wallace WAS a weapon. His career proves it and it points his 1 year drop off to one person. Teddy. Teddy was just too conservative and afraid to stretch the field.
3.) What does Adrian Peterson being predictable have anything to do with anything? He ran for nearly 1,500 yards and 11 touchdowns. That’s elite, not predictable. He was the heart and soul of that offense. If he could get loose, we won. If he couldn’t and teddy had to carry the weight, we lost.

So in the end, if you gave Big Ben or hell, even Joe Flacco since I’ve brought both of them up, the following:

A bad OL
AP in 2015 form
Mike Wallace
Rookie diggs
Mystery thielen
Jarius Wright
Young Rudy

Is anyone going to say, Big Ben or Joe Flacco didn’t have any options? Does anyone believe Flacco or Ben would struggle to find success? Come on.....

The excuses I see for teddys lack of production are endless and for whatever reason, someone that has done, hell, even less than cousins has for this franchise, is always constantly defended by some. But if an excuse is given for cousins.....

And now that I think about it, how many games this year did cousins play without Thielen?? Six? And we went 4-2. That’s with weapons of diggs, Bisi Johnson, treadwell, a bad OL, old and slow Rudy and dalvin cook (who was banged up 2 of those games). Can anyone honestly tell me that teddys weapons were worse than what cousins had in those games?? It’s not even comparable.

Guys think cousins is defended by too many excuses? Teddy blows him out of the water in that regard and it’s not even close.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by VikingsVictorious » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:21 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:37 am
fiestavike wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:21 pm


It was really a pretty crappy formula. The OL was terrible, Peterson was predictable, Teddy had few weapons and even less time. Given the circumstances it was pretty solid production, but they were terrible circumstances.
1.)We still have a crappy OL so there is no difference there
2.) Lets not act like he had michael Jenkins and Jerome Simpson to throw to. Teddy had diggs in 2015, rookie or not, diggs was solid. He had a younger Rudy, Wright, Thielen was on the team but didn’t play much, and Wallace. And the only reason Wallace wasn’t successful IMO, is because teddy struggled to stretch the field. If you put mike Wallace back on Pittsburgh that year, Mike Wallace is a 1,000 yard WR. He was floating around 1,000 even when he was at Miami and that was with tannehill who isn’t the greatest passer either. But then all of the sudden he struggles to even break 500 yards with the Vikings? Calls his QB out for it after he left. And sure enough goes for another 1000 yard season in Baltimore. Mike Wallace WAS a weapon. His career proves it and it points his 1 year drop off to one person. Teddy. Teddy was just too conservative and afraid to stretch the field.
3.) What does Adrian Peterson being predictable have anything to do with anything? He ran for nearly 1,500 yards and 11 touchdowns. That’s elite, not predictable. He was the heart and soul of that offense. If he could get loose, we won. If he couldn’t and teddy had to carry the weight, we lost.

So in the end, if you gave Big Ben or hell, even Joe Flacco since I’ve brought both of them up, the following:

A bad OL
AP in 2015 form
Mike Wallace
Rookie diggs
Mystery thielen
Jarius Wright
Young Rudy

Is anyone going to say, Big Ben or Joe Flacco didn’t have any options? Does anyone believe Flacco or Ben would struggle to find success? Come on.....

The excuses I see for teddys lack of production are endless and for whatever reason, someone that has done, hell, even less than cousins has for this franchise, is always constantly defended by some. But if an excuse is given for cousins.....

And now that I think about it, how many games this year did cousins play without Thielen?? Six? And we went 4-2. That’s with weapons of diggs, Bisi Johnson, treadwell, a bad OL, old and slow Rudy and dalvin cook (who was banged up 2 of those games). Can anyone honestly tell me that teddys weapons were worse than what cousins had in those games?? It’s not even comparable.

Guys think cousins is defended by too many excuses? Teddy blows him out of the water in that regard and it’s not even close.
I liked Teddy and he didn't put up good numbers, but he seemed to have leadership qualities. His fatal flaw was hyperventilating when he got a receiver open deep and overthrew them by about ten yards every time.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by 808vikingsfan » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:41 am

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:21 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:37 am


1.)We still have a crappy OL so there is no difference there
2.) Lets not act like he had michael Jenkins and Jerome Simpson to throw to. Teddy had diggs in 2015, rookie or not, diggs was solid. He had a younger Rudy, Wright, Thielen was on the team but didn’t play much, and Wallace. And the only reason Wallace wasn’t successful IMO, is because teddy struggled to stretch the field. If you put mike Wallace back on Pittsburgh that year, Mike Wallace is a 1,000 yard WR. He was floating around 1,000 even when he was at Miami and that was with tannehill who isn’t the greatest passer either. But then all of the sudden he struggles to even break 500 yards with the Vikings? Calls his QB out for it after he left. And sure enough goes for another 1000 yard season in Baltimore. Mike Wallace WAS a weapon. His career proves it and it points his 1 year drop off to one person. Teddy. Teddy was just too conservative and afraid to stretch the field.
3.) What does Adrian Peterson being predictable have anything to do with anything? He ran for nearly 1,500 yards and 11 touchdowns. That’s elite, not predictable. He was the heart and soul of that offense. If he could get loose, we won. If he couldn’t and teddy had to carry the weight, we lost.

So in the end, if you gave Big Ben or hell, even Joe Flacco since I’ve brought both of them up, the following:

A bad OL
AP in 2015 form
Mike Wallace
Rookie diggs
Mystery thielen
Jarius Wright
Young Rudy

Is anyone going to say, Big Ben or Joe Flacco didn’t have any options? Does anyone believe Flacco or Ben would struggle to find success? Come on.....

The excuses I see for teddys lack of production are endless and for whatever reason, someone that has done, hell, even less than cousins has for this franchise, is always constantly defended by some. But if an excuse is given for cousins.....

And now that I think about it, how many games this year did cousins play without Thielen?? Six? And we went 4-2. That’s with weapons of diggs, Bisi Johnson, treadwell, a bad OL, old and slow Rudy and dalvin cook (who was banged up 2 of those games). Can anyone honestly tell me that teddys weapons were worse than what cousins had in those games?? It’s not even comparable.

Guys think cousins is defended by too many excuses? Teddy blows him out of the water in that regard and it’s not even close.
I liked Teddy and he didn't put up good numbers, but he seemed to have leadership qualities. His fatal flaw was hyperventilating when he got a receiver open deep and overthrew them by about ten yards every time.
His fatal flaw with the Vikings was he got hurt. He was primed to have a great year in 2016.
2019 Cook/Maddison (476 att 2133 yd 19 td 4.5y/a) was just as effective as 2015 Peterson/Mckinnon (474att 2211yd 18td 4.7y/a). Cousins benefited from the RB as much as Teddy did. Same with both defenses. Wins is what matters. Teddy lead this team to 11 wins, something that has been only reached 13 times in franchise history, and only one other time with Peterson at RB. It's something that Cousins has never done in his 9 years in the league. Teddy did it in 2. I mean who cares if his TDs are low. 1st and goal, why wouldn't you hand it off to #28. Give the guy credit for pete's sake.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Vikecycle » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:48 am

808vikingsfan wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:41 am
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:21 am


I liked Teddy and he didn't put up good numbers, but he seemed to have leadership qualities. His fatal flaw was hyperventilating when he got a receiver open deep and overthrew them by about ten yards every time.
His fatal flaw with the Vikings was he got hurt. He was primed to have a great year in 2016.
2019 Cook/Maddison (476 att 2133 yd 19 td 4.5y/a) was just as effective as 2015 Peterson/Mckinnon (474att 2211yd 18td 4.7y/a). Cousins benefited from the RB as much as Teddy did. Same with both defenses. Wins is what matters. Teddy lead this team to 11 wins, something that has been only reached 13 times in franchise history, and only one other time with Peterson at RB. It's something that Cousins has never done in his 9 years in the league. Teddy did it in 2. I mean who cares if his TDs are low. 1st and goal, why wouldn't you hand it off to #28. Give the guy credit for pete's sake.
Its pretty easy to just declare that Bridgwater was going to have a great season in 2016, but that doesnt mean there is much to suggest its true.

Bridgewater's led the league's bottom ranked passing O two years in a row, and had dreadfully mediocre numbers, with a top D and a top running game.

Winning is a product of a team, not a reflection of a single player. Bradshaw has four SB wins, but he certainly isn't the second best QB of all time, or even in the conversation.

Personally, Bridgewater was one more mediocre season from being a certain bust.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Mothman » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:29 am

808vikingsfan wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:41 am
His fatal flaw with the Vikings was he got hurt. He was primed to have a great year in 2016.
That's pure speculation. We all know preseason performance doesn't automatically translate to the regular season.
2019 Cook/Maddison (476 att 2133 yd 19 td 4.5y/a) was just as effective as 2015 Peterson/Mckinnon (474att 2211yd 18td 4.7y/a). Cousins benefited from the RB as much as Teddy did. Same with both defenses. Wins is what matters. Teddy lead this team to 11 wins, something that has been only reached 13 times in franchise history, and only one other time with Peterson at RB.


One additional win isn't much to hang that argument on. The difference there could be any number of other factors. I know we often say a QB "led a team to X" as a figure of speech but it was clearly Peterson and the defense leading the way in 2015. It's not that different from the 2012 season. We can use the same figure of speech to say Christian Ponder led the Vikings to a historic turnaround (from 3-13 to 10-6). Technically, as the 16 game starter, he did but again it was Peterson and the defense carrying the heavier load.
It's something that Cousins has never done in his 9 years in the league. Teddy did it in 2. I mean who cares if his TDs are low. 1st and goal, why wouldn't you hand it off to #28. Give the guy credit for pete's sake.
You're right, Bridgewater deserves credit for his role but the debate around this has always seemed to center on making his contribution that season into something more. He deserves credit for the Vikings 2015 success in very much the same way Ponder deserves credit for their 2012 success: they both started every game and they both made a difference at times but neither was the driving force behind the team's overall success. When it comes to a comparison between 2015 TB and 2019 Cousins, the stats obviously favor the latter. We can debate who passes the eyeball test forever.

It's all water under the proverbial bridge at this point. Let's wish Bridgewater well and wish Cousins even better since he's the Vikes QB now. :)
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:25 am

Mothman wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:29 am
808vikingsfan wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:41 am
His fatal flaw with the Vikings was he got hurt. He was primed to have a great year in 2016.
That's pure speculation. We all know preseason performance doesn't automatically translate to the regular season.
2019 Cook/Maddison (476 att 2133 yd 19 td 4.5y/a) was just as effective as 2015 Peterson/Mckinnon (474att 2211yd 18td 4.7y/a). Cousins benefited from the RB as much as Teddy did. Same with both defenses. Wins is what matters. Teddy lead this team to 11 wins, something that has been only reached 13 times in franchise history, and only one other time with Peterson at RB.


One additional win isn't much to hang that argument on. The difference there could be any number of other factors. I know we often say a QB "led a team to X" as a figure of speech but it was clearly Peterson and the defense leading the way in 2015. It's not that different from the 2012 season. We can use the same figure of speech to say Christian Ponder led the Vikings to a historic turnaround (from 3-13 to 10-6). Technically, as the 16 game starter, he did but again it was Peterson and the defense carrying the heavier load.
It's something that Cousins has never done in his 9 years in the league. Teddy did it in 2. I mean who cares if his TDs are low. 1st and goal, why wouldn't you hand it off to #28. Give the guy credit for pete's sake.
You're right, Bridgewater deserves credit for his role but the debate around this has always seemed to center on making his contribution that season into something more. He deserves credit for the Vikings 2015 success in very much the same way Ponder deserves credit for their 2012 success: they both started every game and they both made a difference at times but neither was the driving force behind the team's overall success. When it comes to a comparison between 2015 TB and 2019 Cousins, the stats obviously favor the latter. We can debate who passes the eyeball test forever.

It's all water under the proverbial bridge at this point. Let's wish Bridgewater well and wish Cousins even better since he's the Vikes QB now. :)
You are right, we don't know what Teddy is, good or bad. People have made him greater and worse than he was in their minds, and the reality is his time in MN shouldn't be graded as anything but an "incomplete".

While it is true that there aren't many, if any QBs who would have blown up the stat sheet with the scheme and weapons Teddy had in 2015 in their second season (I would love to see examples of QBs who have done that), having a lack of weapons and playing in run a first offense doesn't make you a great QB. It doesn't make you a bad one either and doesn't define what you are going to be in your career.

That doesn't mean you can't say there was potential there, the Vikings clearly saw something when they went all in on him in 2016 and it wasn't surprising that on a well coached, good team(not as good as the Vikings 2019 team, apparently) he had a lot of success in NO.

We will see what happens in Carolina. Their line isn't great but they actually have a decent WR corp and a very good RB who actually helps in the passing game instead of detracts from it like AP did.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:55 am

808vikingsfan wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:41 am
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:21 am


I liked Teddy and he didn't put up good numbers, but he seemed to have leadership qualities. His fatal flaw was hyperventilating when he got a receiver open deep and overthrew them by about ten yards every time.
His fatal flaw with the Vikings was he got hurt. He was primed to have a great year in 2016.
2019 Cook/Maddison (476 att 2133 yd 19 td 4.5y/a) was just as effective as 2015 Peterson/Mckinnon (474att 2211yd 18td 4.7y/a). Cousins benefited from the RB as much as Teddy did. Same with both defenses. Wins is what matters. Teddy lead this team to 11 wins, something that has been only reached 13 times in franchise history, and only one other time with Peterson at RB. It's something that Cousins has never done in his 9 years in the league. Teddy did it in 2. I mean who cares if his TDs are low. 1st and goal, why wouldn't you hand it off to #28. Give the guy credit for pete's sake.
I give teddy credit for his leadership, being a good teammate, the intangibles, etc. but I’m not giving him credit for a season that was carried by an elite RB and a good defense.

Primed to have a great year? Based off what? The preseason? That’s nothing but speculation. Cousins had a terrible preseason and had a pretty good year. Like preseason means nothing and is little indication of how a season is going to go. Especially for a QB.

Also, Cousins won games this year without any sort of run game. I’ve posted that once before. Philly, denver, Detroit and LAC. Cousins could win games without a run game because he had the passing ability to do it. Teddy couldn’t and didn’t.

If you want to compare rushing seasons, then let’s add in Peterson/Gerhart in 2012. Their total was 398 attempts, 2,266 yards and 13 touchdowns. That’s only 55 total yards more than 2015, 76 less attempts and 5 less touchdowns. And that was a season that AP nearly broke a record and Christian ponder was the QB. So if you want to look at it like that, then one could easily say Ponder should get credit given they ran less and had less touchdowns from their RBs but had almost an identical record. Do you see how poor that argument is when you put it this way?? Everyone and their mother could tell ponder was terrible but yet, I just made an argument for him there by using the stats you are when comparing teddy to cousins.

I find it odd that when this comparison of teddy and cousins is being made, we compare:

-RB stats
-Who had better weapons
-OL
-defense
-record

But for whatever reason, the QB numbers aren’t being compared? It’s because it’s widely known that cousins shatters teddy in just about every category.

But I’ll do it anyways (2015 teddy vs 2019 cousins):

-Most importantly, games played and attempts. In 2015, Teddy had 3 MORE passing attempts than cousins did in 2019 so it makes the comparison fair. However Teddy played a full 16 games where Cousins only played 15. So I’m going to lay out the actual numbers and then follow it up by adding cousins average in that category x1 since he sat the Chicago game. This will “give them” both 16 games to compare:

GAMES
Teddy- 16
Cousins- 15 (Sat bears game)
+/- Difference- Teddy +1

ATTEMPTS
Teddy- 447
Cousins- 444
+/- Difference- Teddy +3
Cousins average x1 - 30
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +27

COMPLETIONS
Teddy- 292
Cousins- 307
+/- Difference- Cousins +15
Cousins average x1 - 21
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +36

COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
Teddy- 65.3%
Cousins- 69.1%
+/- Difference- Cousins +3.8%

YARDS
Teddy- 3,231
Cousins- 3,603
+/- Difference- Cousins +372
Cousins average x1 - 240
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +612

AVERAGE YPA
Teddy- 7.2
Cousins- 8.1
+/- Difference- Cousins +0.9

AVERAGE YPG
Teddy- 201.9
Cousins- 240.2
+/- Difference- Cousins +38.3

TOUCHDOWNS
Teddy- 14
Cousins- 26
+/- Difference- Cousins +8
Cousins average x1 - ~2
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +10

TD PERCENTAGE
Teddy- 3.1
Cousins- 5.9
+/- Difference- Cousins +2.8

INTERCEPTIONS
Teddy- 9
Cousins- 6 (even though one of those Diggs dropped a perfect pass vs Philly that caused a Sendejo pick)
+/- Difference- Cousins -3

INTERCEPTION PERCENTAGE
Teddy- 2.0
Cousins- 1.4
+/- Difference- Cousins -0.6


FUMBLES LOST
Teddy- 3
Cousins- 3
+/- Difference- Even


20+ YARD COMPLETIONS
Teddy- 41
Cousins- 52
+/- Difference- Cousins +11
Cousins average x1 - 4
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +15

40+ YARD COMPLETIONS
Teddy- 6
Cousins- 11
+/- Difference- Cousins +5
Cousins average x1 - 1
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +6

WINS
Teddy- 11
Cousins- 10
+/- Difference- Teddy +1
Cousins average x1 - 1
Projected +/- difference- Even (if Sean Mannion nearly beat the bears with a slew of backups, Cousins would’ve won that game)

PLAYOFF WINS
Teddy- 0
Cousins- 1
+/- Difference- Cousins +1

Cousins beats Teddy in pretty much every category there is, and many it’s not even close. He beat him in those categories just about every time with one less game. The averages I added in for the missed bears game just widened the gap further. In the end, the two really aren’t comparable. Cousins is the superior QB no matter which way you look at it
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:57 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:25 am
Mothman wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:29 am


That's pure speculation. We all know preseason performance doesn't automatically translate to the regular season.



One additional win isn't much to hang that argument on. The difference there could be any number of other factors. I know we often say a QB "led a team to X" as a figure of speech but it was clearly Peterson and the defense leading the way in 2015. It's not that different from the 2012 season. We can use the same figure of speech to say Christian Ponder led the Vikings to a historic turnaround (from 3-13 to 10-6). Technically, as the 16 game starter, he did but again it was Peterson and the defense carrying the heavier load.



You're right, Bridgewater deserves credit for his role but the debate around this has always seemed to center on making his contribution that season into something more. He deserves credit for the Vikings 2015 success in very much the same way Ponder deserves credit for their 2012 success: they both started every game and they both made a difference at times but neither was the driving force behind the team's overall success. When it comes to a comparison between 2015 TB and 2019 Cousins, the stats obviously favor the latter. We can debate who passes the eyeball test forever.

It's all water under the proverbial bridge at this point. Let's wish Bridgewater well and wish Cousins even better since he's the Vikes QB now. :)
You are right, we don't know what Teddy is, good or bad. People have made him greater and worse than he was in their minds, and the reality is his time in MN shouldn't be graded as anything but an "incomplete".

While it is true that there aren't many, if any QBs who would have blown up the stat sheet with the scheme and weapons Teddy had in 2015 in their second season (I would love to see examples of QBs who have done that), having a lack of weapons and playing in run a first offense doesn't make you a great QB. It doesn't make you a bad one either and doesn't define what you are going to be in your career.

That doesn't mean you can't say there was potential there, the Vikings clearly saw something when they went all in on him in 2016 and it wasn't surprising that on a well coached, good team(not as good as the Vikings 2019 team, apparently) he had a lot of success in NO.

We will see what happens in Carolina. Their line isn't great but they actually have a decent WR corp and a very good RB who actually helps in the passing game instead of detracts from it like AP did.
Read my previous post regarding a “lack of weapons”. That was far from the case.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:10 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:55 am
808vikingsfan wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:41 am


His fatal flaw with the Vikings was he got hurt. He was primed to have a great year in 2016.
2019 Cook/Maddison (476 att 2133 yd 19 td 4.5y/a) was just as effective as 2015 Peterson/Mckinnon (474att 2211yd 18td 4.7y/a). Cousins benefited from the RB as much as Teddy did. Same with both defenses. Wins is what matters. Teddy lead this team to 11 wins, something that has been only reached 13 times in franchise history, and only one other time with Peterson at RB. It's something that Cousins has never done in his 9 years in the league. Teddy did it in 2. I mean who cares if his TDs are low. 1st and goal, why wouldn't you hand it off to #28. Give the guy credit for pete's sake.
I give teddy credit for his leadership, being a good teammate, the intangibles, etc. but I’m not giving him credit for a season that was carried by an elite RB and a good defense.

Primed to have a great year? Based off what? The preseason? That’s nothing but speculation. Cousins had a terrible preseason and had a pretty good year. Like preseason means nothing and is little indication of how a season is going to go. Especially for a QB.

Also, Cousins won games this year without any sort of run game. I’ve posted that once before. Philly, denver, Detroit and LAC. Cousins could win games without a run game because he had the passing ability to do it. Teddy couldn’t and didn’t.

If you want to compare rushing seasons, then let’s add in Peterson/Gerhart in 2012. Their total was 398 attempts, 2,266 yards and 13 touchdowns. That’s only 55 total yards more than 2015, 76 less attempts and 5 less touchdowns. And that was a season that AP nearly broke a record and Christian ponder was the QB. So if you want to look at it like that, then one could easily say Ponder should get credit given they ran less and had less touchdowns from their RBs but had almost an identical record. Do you see how poor that argument is when you put it this way?? Everyone and their mother could tell ponder was terrible but yet, I just made an argument for him there by using the stats you are when comparing teddy to cousins.

I find it odd that when this comparison of teddy and cousins is being made, we compare:

-RB stats
-Who had better weapons
-OL
-defense
-record

But for whatever reason, the QB numbers aren’t being compared? It’s because it’s widely known that cousins shatters teddy in just about every category.

But I’ll do it anyways (2015 teddy vs 2019 cousins):

-Most importantly, games played and attempts. In 2015, Teddy had 3 MORE passing attempts than cousins did in 2019 so it makes the comparison fair. However Teddy played a full 16 games where Cousins only played 15. So I’m going to lay out the actual numbers and then follow it up by adding cousins average in that category x1 since he sat the Chicago game. This will “give them” both 16 games to compare:

GAMES
Teddy- 16
Cousins- 15 (Sat bears game)
+/- Difference- Teddy +1

ATTEMPTS
Teddy- 447
Cousins- 444
+/- Difference- Teddy +3
Cousins average x1 - 30
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +27

COMPLETIONS
Teddy- 292
Cousins- 307
+/- Difference- Cousins +15
Cousins average x1 - 21
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +36

COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
Teddy- 65.3%
Cousins- 69.1%
+/- Difference- Cousins +3.8%

YARDS
Teddy- 3,231
Cousins- 3,603
+/- Difference- Cousins +372
Cousins average x1 - 240
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +612

AVERAGE YPA
Teddy- 7.2
Cousins- 8.1
+/- Difference- Cousins +0.9

AVERAGE YPG
Teddy- 201.9
Cousins- 240.2
+/- Difference- Cousins +38.3

TOUCHDOWNS
Teddy- 14
Cousins- 26
+/- Difference- Cousins +8
Cousins average x1 - ~2
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +10

TD PERCENTAGE
Teddy- 3.1
Cousins- 5.9
+/- Difference- Cousins +2.8

INTERCEPTIONS
Teddy- 9
Cousins- 6 (even though one of those Diggs dropped a perfect pass vs Philly that caused a Sendejo pick)
+/- Difference- Cousins -3

INTERCEPTION PERCENTAGE
Teddy- 2.0
Cousins- 1.4
+/- Difference- Cousins -0.6


FUMBLES LOST
Teddy- 3
Cousins- 3
+/- Difference- Even


20+ YARD COMPLETIONS
Teddy- 41
Cousins- 52
+/- Difference- Cousins +11
Cousins average x1 - 4
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +15

40+ YARD COMPLETIONS
Teddy- 6
Cousins- 11
+/- Difference- Cousins +5
Cousins average x1 - 1
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +6

WINS
Teddy- 11
Cousins- 10
+/- Difference- Teddy +1
Cousins average x1 - 1
Projected +/- difference- Even (if Sean Mannion nearly beat the bears with a slew of backups, Cousins would’ve won that game)

PLAYOFF WINS
Teddy- 0
Cousins- 1
+/- Difference- Cousins +1

Cousins beats Teddy in pretty much every category there is, and many it’s not even close. He beat him in those categories just about every time with one less game. The averages I added in for the missed bears game just widened the gap further. In the end, the two really aren’t comparable. Cousins is the superior QB no matter which way you look at it
A guy in his 8th season in an offense built around his strengths put up better stats than a guy in his second in an offense built around his RB. Who would have thought?

This year is probably more comparable:
TDs per start:
Cousins: 1.8
Teddy: 1.8

Yards per start
Cousins: 240
Teddy: 241

Wins/Loss ratio:
Cousins: 2:1
Teddy: 5:0

GWD:
Cousins: 1
Teddy: 2 in just 5 starts

Salary:
Cousins: 29 Million
Teddy: 7 Million

And Cousins was on a slightly better team.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:11 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:57 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:25 am


You are right, we don't know what Teddy is, good or bad. People have made him greater and worse than he was in their minds, and the reality is his time in MN shouldn't be graded as anything but an "incomplete".

While it is true that there aren't many, if any QBs who would have blown up the stat sheet with the scheme and weapons Teddy had in 2015 in their second season (I would love to see examples of QBs who have done that), having a lack of weapons and playing in run a first offense doesn't make you a great QB. It doesn't make you a bad one either and doesn't define what you are going to be in your career.

That doesn't mean you can't say there was potential there, the Vikings clearly saw something when they went all in on him in 2016 and it wasn't surprising that on a well coached, good team(not as good as the Vikings 2019 team, apparently) he had a lot of success in NO.

We will see what happens in Carolina. Their line isn't great but they actually have a decent WR corp and a very good RB who actually helps in the passing game instead of detracts from it like AP did.
Read my previous post regarding a “lack of weapons”. That was far from the case.
Yes, your post had your opinion of those weapons, that is true.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by VikingsVictorious » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:14 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:55 am
808vikingsfan wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:41 am


His fatal flaw with the Vikings was he got hurt. He was primed to have a great year in 2016.
2019 Cook/Maddison (476 att 2133 yd 19 td 4.5y/a) was just as effective as 2015 Peterson/Mckinnon (474att 2211yd 18td 4.7y/a). Cousins benefited from the RB as much as Teddy did. Same with both defenses. Wins is what matters. Teddy lead this team to 11 wins, something that has been only reached 13 times in franchise history, and only one other time with Peterson at RB. It's something that Cousins has never done in his 9 years in the league. Teddy did it in 2. I mean who cares if his TDs are low. 1st and goal, why wouldn't you hand it off to #28. Give the guy credit for pete's sake.
I give teddy credit for his leadership, being a good teammate, the intangibles, etc. but I’m not giving him credit for a season that was carried by an elite RB and a good defense.

Primed to have a great year? Based off what? The preseason? That’s nothing but speculation. Cousins had a terrible preseason and had a pretty good year. Like preseason means nothing and is little indication of how a season is going to go. Especially for a QB.

Also, Cousins won games this year without any sort of run game. I’ve posted that once before. Philly, denver, Detroit and LAC. Cousins could win games without a run game because he had the passing ability to do it. Teddy couldn’t and didn’t.

If you want to compare rushing seasons, then let’s add in Peterson/Gerhart in 2012. Their total was 398 attempts, 2,266 yards and 13 touchdowns. That’s only 55 total yards more than 2015, 76 less attempts and 5 less touchdowns. And that was a season that AP nearly broke a record and Christian ponder was the QB. So if you want to look at it like that, then one could easily say Ponder should get credit given they ran less and had less touchdowns from their RBs but had almost an identical record. Do you see how poor that argument is when you put it this way?? Everyone and their mother could tell ponder was terrible but yet, I just made an argument for him there by using the stats you are when comparing teddy to cousins.

I find it odd that when this comparison of teddy and cousins is being made, we compare:

-RB stats
-Who had better weapons
-OL
-defense
-record

But for whatever reason, the QB numbers aren’t being compared? It’s because it’s widely known that cousins shatters teddy in just about every category.

But I’ll do it anyways (2015 teddy vs 2019 cousins):

-Most importantly, games played and attempts. In 2015, Teddy had 3 MORE passing attempts than cousins did in 2019 so it makes the comparison fair. However Teddy played a full 16 games where Cousins only played 15. So I’m going to lay out the actual numbers and then follow it up by adding cousins average in that category x1 since he sat the Chicago game. This will “give them” both 16 games to compare:

GAMES
Teddy- 16
Cousins- 15 (Sat bears game)
+/- Difference- Teddy +1

ATTEMPTS
Teddy- 447
Cousins- 444
+/- Difference- Teddy +3
Cousins average x1 - 30
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +27

COMPLETIONS
Teddy- 292
Cousins- 307
+/- Difference- Cousins +15
Cousins average x1 - 21
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +36

COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
Teddy- 65.3%
Cousins- 69.1%
+/- Difference- Cousins +3.8%

YARDS
Teddy- 3,231
Cousins- 3,603
+/- Difference- Cousins +372
Cousins average x1 - 240
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +612

AVERAGE YPA
Teddy- 7.2
Cousins- 8.1
+/- Difference- Cousins +0.9

AVERAGE YPG
Teddy- 201.9
Cousins- 240.2
+/- Difference- Cousins +38.3

TOUCHDOWNS
Teddy- 14
Cousins- 26
+/- Difference- Cousins +8
Cousins average x1 - ~2
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +10

TD PERCENTAGE
Teddy- 3.1
Cousins- 5.9
+/- Difference- Cousins +2.8

INTERCEPTIONS
Teddy- 9
Cousins- 6 (even though one of those Diggs dropped a perfect pass vs Philly that caused a Sendejo pick)
+/- Difference- Cousins -3

INTERCEPTION PERCENTAGE
Teddy- 2.0
Cousins- 1.4
+/- Difference- Cousins -0.6


FUMBLES LOST
Teddy- 3
Cousins- 3
+/- Difference- Even


20+ YARD COMPLETIONS
Teddy- 41
Cousins- 52
+/- Difference- Cousins +11
Cousins average x1 - 4
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +15

40+ YARD COMPLETIONS
Teddy- 6
Cousins- 11
+/- Difference- Cousins +5
Cousins average x1 - 1
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +6

WINS
Teddy- 11
Cousins- 10
+/- Difference- Teddy +1
Cousins average x1 - 1
Projected +/- difference- Even (if Sean Mannion nearly beat the bears with a slew of backups, Cousins would’ve won that game)

PLAYOFF WINS
Teddy- 0
Cousins- 1
+/- Difference- Cousins +1

Cousins beats Teddy in pretty much every category there is, and many it’s not even close. He beat him in those categories just about every time with one less game. The averages I added in for the missed bears game just widened the gap further. In the end, the two really aren’t comparable. Cousins is the superior QB no matter which way you look at it
To me all you say is fact that Cousins is an easily superior QB. I still think Teddy is a decent QB.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by fiestavike » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:19 am

If I'm starting a franchise and have to pick between Teddy or Kirk, I'm going Teddy. I know others disagree. That's fine. Its a well worn path, and I don't have enough tread left on the tires to go down it again. How about we get to discussing the present and future of the team?
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:19 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:10 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:55 am


I give teddy credit for his leadership, being a good teammate, the intangibles, etc. but I’m not giving him credit for a season that was carried by an elite RB and a good defense.

Primed to have a great year? Based off what? The preseason? That’s nothing but speculation. Cousins had a terrible preseason and had a pretty good year. Like preseason means nothing and is little indication of how a season is going to go. Especially for a QB.

Also, Cousins won games this year without any sort of run game. I’ve posted that once before. Philly, denver, Detroit and LAC. Cousins could win games without a run game because he had the passing ability to do it. Teddy couldn’t and didn’t.

If you want to compare rushing seasons, then let’s add in Peterson/Gerhart in 2012. Their total was 398 attempts, 2,266 yards and 13 touchdowns. That’s only 55 total yards more than 2015, 76 less attempts and 5 less touchdowns. And that was a season that AP nearly broke a record and Christian ponder was the QB. So if you want to look at it like that, then one could easily say Ponder should get credit given they ran less and had less touchdowns from their RBs but had almost an identical record. Do you see how poor that argument is when you put it this way?? Everyone and their mother could tell ponder was terrible but yet, I just made an argument for him there by using the stats you are when comparing teddy to cousins.

I find it odd that when this comparison of teddy and cousins is being made, we compare:

-RB stats
-Who had better weapons
-OL
-defense
-record

But for whatever reason, the QB numbers aren’t being compared? It’s because it’s widely known that cousins shatters teddy in just about every category.

But I’ll do it anyways (2015 teddy vs 2019 cousins):

-Most importantly, games played and attempts. In 2015, Teddy had 3 MORE passing attempts than cousins did in 2019 so it makes the comparison fair. However Teddy played a full 16 games where Cousins only played 15. So I’m going to lay out the actual numbers and then follow it up by adding cousins average in that category x1 since he sat the Chicago game. This will “give them” both 16 games to compare:

GAMES
Teddy- 16
Cousins- 15 (Sat bears game)
+/- Difference- Teddy +1

ATTEMPTS
Teddy- 447
Cousins- 444
+/- Difference- Teddy +3
Cousins average x1 - 30
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +27

COMPLETIONS
Teddy- 292
Cousins- 307
+/- Difference- Cousins +15
Cousins average x1 - 21
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +36

COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
Teddy- 65.3%
Cousins- 69.1%
+/- Difference- Cousins +3.8%

YARDS
Teddy- 3,231
Cousins- 3,603
+/- Difference- Cousins +372
Cousins average x1 - 240
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +612

AVERAGE YPA
Teddy- 7.2
Cousins- 8.1
+/- Difference- Cousins +0.9

AVERAGE YPG
Teddy- 201.9
Cousins- 240.2
+/- Difference- Cousins +38.3

TOUCHDOWNS
Teddy- 14
Cousins- 26
+/- Difference- Cousins +8
Cousins average x1 - ~2
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +10

TD PERCENTAGE
Teddy- 3.1
Cousins- 5.9
+/- Difference- Cousins +2.8

INTERCEPTIONS
Teddy- 9
Cousins- 6 (even though one of those Diggs dropped a perfect pass vs Philly that caused a Sendejo pick)
+/- Difference- Cousins -3

INTERCEPTION PERCENTAGE
Teddy- 2.0
Cousins- 1.4
+/- Difference- Cousins -0.6


FUMBLES LOST
Teddy- 3
Cousins- 3
+/- Difference- Even


20+ YARD COMPLETIONS
Teddy- 41
Cousins- 52
+/- Difference- Cousins +11
Cousins average x1 - 4
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +15

40+ YARD COMPLETIONS
Teddy- 6
Cousins- 11
+/- Difference- Cousins +5
Cousins average x1 - 1
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +6

WINS
Teddy- 11
Cousins- 10
+/- Difference- Teddy +1
Cousins average x1 - 1
Projected +/- difference- Even (if Sean Mannion nearly beat the bears with a slew of backups, Cousins would’ve won that game)

PLAYOFF WINS
Teddy- 0
Cousins- 1
+/- Difference- Cousins +1

Cousins beats Teddy in pretty much every category there is, and many it’s not even close. He beat him in those categories just about every time with one less game. The averages I added in for the missed bears game just widened the gap further. In the end, the two really aren’t comparable. Cousins is the superior QB no matter which way you look at it
A guy in his 8th season in an offense built around his strengths put up better stats than a guy in his second in an offense built around his RB. Who would have thought?

This year is probably more comparable:
TDs per start:
Cousins: 1.8
Teddy: 1.8

Yards per start
Cousins: 240
Teddy: 241

Wins/Loss ratio:
Cousins: 2:1
Teddy: 5:0

GWD:
Cousins: 1
Teddy: 2 in just 5 starts

Salary:
Cousins: 29 Million
Teddy: 7 Million

And Cousins was on a slightly better team.
You’re comparing this year because it “helps” your argument. That wasn’t the discussion. It was 2015 teddy vs 2019 cousins. No need to sway it so it works in your favor. No less you’re going off of a 5 game sample size for teddy.

And Vikings a slightly better team? Coming from the guy that said this before the saints game this year:
If the Vikings win, it is because the OC called a great game and Zimmer out coached Peyton on defense. They are a better team than we are. Much better.


But now all of the sudden since you’re defending teddy, the Vikings were a slightly better team than the saints this year?? Something isn’t adding up.

Also referring to the beginning of your post, the offense is built around him? I’m pretty sure the offense is built around dalvin cook. It’s a run first offense. Yeah sure they run a lot of play action because cousins does well with it. But in any offense, why wouldn’t you do what your QB does well? That would be like saying, let’s run an RPO offense when we don’t have a QB that can run. What did the Vikings do that “weren’t to teddys strengths in 2015? Dalvin cook played in 14 games. Two of those games he was banged up (Seattle and LAC) and done at halftime. Each game he had 9 carries. So if you take those two games and count them as one and say he played in 13 FULL games which is more than fair, cook averaged 19.2 carries a game. In 2015, Peterson averaged 20.4. Between AP, Mckinnon and Asiata in 2015, they had 408 total carries. Between cook, mattison and Boone, they had 399 total carries. That’s a difference of a whopping 9 carries.

But supposedly, the 2015 offense was built around AP but the 2019 offense was built around cousins? No. Not at all. If the offense was built around Kirk cousins, diggs would very likely still be here because he’d be getting 102 catches like he did in 2018. This is a run first offense and they showed that day 1 of the year when they only threw 10 times the whole game. This offense is built around cook no different than it was built around AP. Pound the ball down your throat and run the clock.

So far for teddys struggles, guys have blamed the scheme, the running back, the lack of weapons, it being his 2nd year, etc. How about just blaming the damn QB? Him and his bottom 3 passing offense.

Given the 2015 and 2019 were very similar in many ways, does anyone find it odd that even with cousins in a run first offense, just like Teddy was in in 2015, cousins drastically outperformed Teddy in just about any passing category you could ask for. And also got a playoff win on the road as a massive underdog.

There really isn’t even an argument here when comparing the two.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:21 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:14 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:55 am


I give teddy credit for his leadership, being a good teammate, the intangibles, etc. but I’m not giving him credit for a season that was carried by an elite RB and a good defense.

Primed to have a great year? Based off what? The preseason? That’s nothing but speculation. Cousins had a terrible preseason and had a pretty good year. Like preseason means nothing and is little indication of how a season is going to go. Especially for a QB.

Also, Cousins won games this year without any sort of run game. I’ve posted that once before. Philly, denver, Detroit and LAC. Cousins could win games without a run game because he had the passing ability to do it. Teddy couldn’t and didn’t.

If you want to compare rushing seasons, then let’s add in Peterson/Gerhart in 2012. Their total was 398 attempts, 2,266 yards and 13 touchdowns. That’s only 55 total yards more than 2015, 76 less attempts and 5 less touchdowns. And that was a season that AP nearly broke a record and Christian ponder was the QB. So if you want to look at it like that, then one could easily say Ponder should get credit given they ran less and had less touchdowns from their RBs but had almost an identical record. Do you see how poor that argument is when you put it this way?? Everyone and their mother could tell ponder was terrible but yet, I just made an argument for him there by using the stats you are when comparing teddy to cousins.

I find it odd that when this comparison of teddy and cousins is being made, we compare:

-RB stats
-Who had better weapons
-OL
-defense
-record

But for whatever reason, the QB numbers aren’t being compared? It’s because it’s widely known that cousins shatters teddy in just about every category.

But I’ll do it anyways (2015 teddy vs 2019 cousins):

-Most importantly, games played and attempts. In 2015, Teddy had 3 MORE passing attempts than cousins did in 2019 so it makes the comparison fair. However Teddy played a full 16 games where Cousins only played 15. So I’m going to lay out the actual numbers and then follow it up by adding cousins average in that category x1 since he sat the Chicago game. This will “give them” both 16 games to compare:

GAMES
Teddy- 16
Cousins- 15 (Sat bears game)
+/- Difference- Teddy +1

ATTEMPTS
Teddy- 447
Cousins- 444
+/- Difference- Teddy +3
Cousins average x1 - 30
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +27

COMPLETIONS
Teddy- 292
Cousins- 307
+/- Difference- Cousins +15
Cousins average x1 - 21
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +36

COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
Teddy- 65.3%
Cousins- 69.1%
+/- Difference- Cousins +3.8%

YARDS
Teddy- 3,231
Cousins- 3,603
+/- Difference- Cousins +372
Cousins average x1 - 240
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +612

AVERAGE YPA
Teddy- 7.2
Cousins- 8.1
+/- Difference- Cousins +0.9

AVERAGE YPG
Teddy- 201.9
Cousins- 240.2
+/- Difference- Cousins +38.3

TOUCHDOWNS
Teddy- 14
Cousins- 26
+/- Difference- Cousins +8
Cousins average x1 - ~2
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +10

TD PERCENTAGE
Teddy- 3.1
Cousins- 5.9
+/- Difference- Cousins +2.8

INTERCEPTIONS
Teddy- 9
Cousins- 6 (even though one of those Diggs dropped a perfect pass vs Philly that caused a Sendejo pick)
+/- Difference- Cousins -3

INTERCEPTION PERCENTAGE
Teddy- 2.0
Cousins- 1.4
+/- Difference- Cousins -0.6


FUMBLES LOST
Teddy- 3
Cousins- 3
+/- Difference- Even


20+ YARD COMPLETIONS
Teddy- 41
Cousins- 52
+/- Difference- Cousins +11
Cousins average x1 - 4
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +15

40+ YARD COMPLETIONS
Teddy- 6
Cousins- 11
+/- Difference- Cousins +5
Cousins average x1 - 1
Projected +/- difference- Cousins +6

WINS
Teddy- 11
Cousins- 10
+/- Difference- Teddy +1
Cousins average x1 - 1
Projected +/- difference- Even (if Sean Mannion nearly beat the bears with a slew of backups, Cousins would’ve won that game)

PLAYOFF WINS
Teddy- 0
Cousins- 1
+/- Difference- Cousins +1

Cousins beats Teddy in pretty much every category there is, and many it’s not even close. He beat him in those categories just about every time with one less game. The averages I added in for the missed bears game just widened the gap further. In the end, the two really aren’t comparable. Cousins is the superior QB no matter which way you look at it
To me all you say is fact that Cousins is an easily superior QB. I still think Teddy is a decent QB.
Right I mean I’m not saying teddy is some dumpster fire QB, but Kirk cousins is a better QB than teddy no doubt about it. Every number out there pretty much proves that.
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