Alexander to Bengals

[Pondering Her Percy]

It's not a good sign that the team is losing so much "home-grown" young talent. Ideally, when trying to build, you want to be able to draft, develop and then keep talented players in their prime. What does it say about the Vikes that Waynes, Alexander, Diggs, Weatherly and Kearse are all moving on (Diggs via trade) after their first 4 or 5 years with the team?

It was brought up elsewhere with me, but instead of just losing a few pieces we all figured would happen, it now appears like a half-way rebuild. Still enough talent to compete, all the while getting younger, either by force or choice.

It could be worse than Hill and Hughes, I suppose, but so much uncertainty.

Very well put. I kept saying we were going to be reloading this year, not rebuilding. But a half way rebuild might be the perfect term. Like obviously we’re rebuilding our secondary but again there is enough talent on the rest of this team to still compete.

But I feel like the reactions during free agency is like this year after year. Like yes, we have lost a good chunk but guys act like the season starts tomorrow and we’re going to suck when we still have the rest of free agency, guys like griff and Harris that we are unsure on, and the draft where we are now loaded with picks.

Why am I not freaking out? Especially when it comes to corners? Because there is nobody on this earth that is more infatuated with corners than zim. They are what makes his defenses engine run. No less, he’s an excellent coach when it comes to DBs. That’s his bread and butter. So if anyone really believes that he’s going to stroll out mike Hughes and Holton hill and say let’s roll, you’re very much mistaken. They definitely have a plan in place.

Now given the amount of holes all these moves have created across the entire roster, young guys will have to step up. I mentioned this towards the end of last season that I think we’re going to need to see guys like maybe Armon Watts, Hercules Mata’afa, Dru Samia, and/or Oli Udoh step up and take over a starting role. They have promise and are on cheap rookie contracts. Are they a sure thing? Hell no. Could they suck horribly? Yes. But there is also no point in drafting some of these guys if you aren’t ever going to give them a shot. Especially the ones like I mentioned above that have showed some promise. Nobody can expect us to fill all of these holes in one offseason and little cap space.

But in the end, I think that they are planning on doing that “half way rebuild” entirely in the draft. Hence why they have 13 picks and could have more soon depending on what happens with Harris. This is a huge year for spielman and really needs another 2015 type draft class. We now have a ton of flexibility to move up to down in the draft whether it’s the first round or 6th round. If we happen to stay put at 22 and 25, don’t be surprised if we end up with about 16 draft picks when it’s all said and done.

And I also believe this is a “2 year halfway rebuild” given we already have plenty of picks coming next year. From what I am seeing via twitter, we are projected to land a 3rd for Waynes, a 6th for Alexander, and possibly a 7th for Kearse. Pierce signing cancels weatherly which wouldve been a 6th. Griff would not bring a pick since it was a voided contract I guess. But either way, we have 13 picks this year plus have a full slate of 7 picks in 2021 along with a 3rd (Waynes), 4th (diggs trade), a 6th (Alexander) and a possible 7th (Kearse). And I’m guessing someone like rashod hill nets us one as well if he goes somewhere else (Compton netted us one). So we would have 13 picks in 2020, two of them being 1st rounders and possibly another 12ish in 2021. That would be adding 24-25 drafted rookies to the talent we already have in two years. That’s a boatload and it excites me the more I think about it. Free agency is just a side dish And I love the pierce signing. The draft is the main course and it’s where our next wave of talent is going to come from.

[StumpHunter]

It was brought up elsewhere with me, but instead of just losing a few pieces we all figured would happen, it now appears like a half-way rebuild. Still enough talent to compete, all the while getting younger, either by force or choice.

It could be worse than Hill and Hughes, I suppose, but so much uncertainty.

Very well put. I kept saying we were going to be reloading this year, not rebuilding. But a half way rebuild might be the perfect term. Like obviously we’re rebuilding our secondary but again there is enough talent on the rest of this team to still compete.

But I feel like the reactions during free agency is like this year after year. Like yes, we have lost a good chunk but guys act like the season starts tomorrow and we’re going to suck when we still have the rest of free agency, guys like griff and Harris that we are unsure on, and the draft where we are now loaded with picks.

Why am I not freaking out? Especially when it comes to corners? Because there is nobody on this earth that is more infatuated with corners than zim. They are what makes his defenses engine run. No less, he’s an excellent coach when it comes to DBs. That’s his bread and butter. So if anyone really believes that he’s going to stroll out mike Hughes and Holton hill and say let’s roll, you’re very much mistaken. They definitely have a plan in place.

Now given the amount of holes all these moves have created across the entire roster, young guys will have to step up. I mentioned this towards the end of last season that I think we’re going to need to see guys like maybe Armon Watts, Hercules Mata’afa, Dru Samia, and/or Oli Udoh step up and take over a starting role. They have promise and are on cheap rookie contracts. Are they a sure thing? Hell no. Could they suck horribly? Yes. But there is also no point in drafting some of these guys if you aren’t ever going to give them a shot. Especially the ones like I mentioned above that have showed some promise. Nobody can expect us to fill all of these holes in one offseason and little cap space.

But in the end, I think that they are planning on doing that “half way rebuild” entirely in the draft. Hence why they have 13 picks and could have more soon depending on what happens with Harris. This is a huge year for spielman and really needs another 2015 type draft class. We now have a ton of flexibility to move up to down in the draft whether it’s the first round or 6th round. If we happen to stay put at 22 and 25, don’t be surprised if we end up with about 16 draft picks when it’s all said and done.

And I also believe this is a “2 year halfway rebuild” given we already have plenty of picks coming next year. From what I am seeing via twitter, we are projected to land a 3rd for Waynes, a 6th for Alexander, and possibly a 7th for Kearse. Pierce signing cancels weatherly which wouldve been a 6th. Griff would not bring a pick since it was a voided contract I guess. But either way, we have 13 picks this year plus have a full slate of 7 picks in 2021 along with a 3rd (Waynes), 4th (diggs trade), a 6th (Alexander) and a possible 7th (Kearse). And I’m guessing someone like rashod hill nets us one as well if he goes somewhere else (Compton netted us one). So we would have 13 picks in 2020, two of them being 1st rounders and possibly another 12ish in 2021. That would be adding 24-25 drafted rookies to the talent we already have in two years. That’s a boatload and it excites me the more I think about it. Free agency is just a side dish And I love the pierce signing. The draft is the main course and it’s where our next wave of talent is going to come from.

I would feel better about this off season if not for the Diggs trade. I knew the defense would take a step back as holes would need to be filled via the draft, and rookies typically don't hit the ground running, but I figured the offense would be fine.

Picks are great, but they take time to develop, if they develop at all. There are no sure things in the draft, but even if we hit on most of our early picks, we likely truly don't see those dividends until 2021.

[halfgiz]

Don't even get me gone on that...
Mac was a need we should have been able to afford. Problem was he was ready to leave, from what I heard.

Alexander: 1 of 5 CBs to play 500 snaps and not commit a penalty in 2019

Well yeah someone like Alexander we could afford but something like Waynes’ contract we couldn’t. And for all we know, they could still be trying to resign griffen.

And idk where you heard he was ready to leave

Early in his career Zimmer and Mac were at odds, Later Mac wanted moved out of slot position and Zim wouldn't move him.
Straw that broke the camels back. Was this years Bears game when Zim sit first team. He made Mac play injured and Mac hurt his knee worse and had to have surgery and missed the playoffs.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Well yeah someone like Alexander we could afford but something like Waynes’ contract we couldn’t. And for all we know, they could still be trying to resign griffen.

And idk where you heard he was ready to leave

Early in his career Zimmer and Mac were at odds, Later Mac wanted moved out of slot position and Zim wouldn't move him.
Straw that broke the camels back. Was this years Bears game when Zim sit first team. He made Mac play injured and Mac hurt his knee worse and had to have surgery and missed the playoffs.

Yeah making Mac play in that game was dumb and I’m sure it ticked Mac off because he ended up getting hurt. However, him wanting out of the slot, I don’t think that was any sort of reason why he left. He’s going to play the slot in cincy too. No matter who signed him, mac is a slot CB

[Pondering Her Percy]

Very well put. I kept saying we were going to be reloading this year, not rebuilding. But a half way rebuild might be the perfect term. Like obviously we’re rebuilding our secondary but again there is enough talent on the rest of this team to still compete.

But I feel like the reactions during free agency is like this year after year. Like yes, we have lost a good chunk but guys act like the season starts tomorrow and we’re going to suck when we still have the rest of free agency, guys like griff and Harris that we are unsure on, and the draft where we are now loaded with picks.

Why am I not freaking out? Especially when it comes to corners? Because there is nobody on this earth that is more infatuated with corners than zim. They are what makes his defenses engine run. No less, he’s an excellent coach when it comes to DBs. That’s his bread and butter. So if anyone really believes that he’s going to stroll out mike Hughes and Holton hill and say let’s roll, you’re very much mistaken. They definitely have a plan in place.

Now given the amount of holes all these moves have created across the entire roster, young guys will have to step up. I mentioned this towards the end of last season that I think we’re going to need to see guys like maybe Armon Watts, Hercules Mata’afa, Dru Samia, and/or Oli Udoh step up and take over a starting role. They have promise and are on cheap rookie contracts. Are they a sure thing? Hell no. Could they suck horribly? Yes. But there is also no point in drafting some of these guys if you aren’t ever going to give them a shot. Especially the ones like I mentioned above that have showed some promise. Nobody can expect us to fill all of these holes in one offseason and little cap space.

But in the end, I think that they are planning on doing that “half way rebuild” entirely in the draft. Hence why they have 13 picks and could have more soon depending on what happens with Harris. This is a huge year for spielman and really needs another 2015 type draft class. We now have a ton of flexibility to move up to down in the draft whether it’s the first round or 6th round. If we happen to stay put at 22 and 25, don’t be surprised if we end up with about 16 draft picks when it’s all said and done.

And I also believe this is a “2 year halfway rebuild” given we already have plenty of picks coming next year. From what I am seeing via twitter, we are projected to land a 3rd for Waynes, a 6th for Alexander, and possibly a 7th for Kearse. Pierce signing cancels weatherly which wouldve been a 6th. Griff would not bring a pick since it was a voided contract I guess. But either way, we have 13 picks this year plus have a full slate of 7 picks in 2021 along with a 3rd (Waynes), 4th (diggs trade), a 6th (Alexander) and a possible 7th (Kearse). And I’m guessing someone like rashod hill nets us one as well if he goes somewhere else (Compton netted us one). So we would have 13 picks in 2020, two of them being 1st rounders and possibly another 12ish in 2021. That would be adding 24-25 drafted rookies to the talent we already have in two years. That’s a boatload and it excites me the more I think about it. Free agency is just a side dish And I love the pierce signing. The draft is the main course and it’s where our next wave of talent is going to come from.

I would feel better about this off season if not for the Diggs trade. I knew the defense would take a step back as holes would need to be filled via the draft, and rookies typically don't hit the ground running, but I figured the offense would be fine.

Picks are great, but they take time to develop, if they develop at all. There are no sure things in the draft, but even if we hit on most of our early picks, we likely truly don't see those dividends until 2021.

I said to my buddy the morning before the diggs trade that I was fine with trading him IF and only IF we got a good haul. We did so I was fine with it. If we got something like the Hopkins deal I’d be snapping. I mean, I’m not “happy” diggs is gone by any means, hell my blonde lab is named Diggs, but in the end, I was definitely getting sick of his crap. He complained about the offense and was supposedly ticked Thielen got paid more. And then his Twitter immaturity. I hate listening to divas in this league and luckily we never had many on the Vikings but he was well on his way there. He complained, wanted to be traded, gets his wish and heads to a team that is also a run first offense with a much worse passing QB.....karma.

Plus, I have about 3 man crushes for WR in this draft

[J. Kapp 11]

Early in his career Zimmer and Mac were at odds, Later Mac wanted moved out of slot position and Zim wouldn't move him.
Straw that broke the camels back. Was this years Bears game when Zim sit first team. He made Mac play injured and Mac hurt his knee worse and had to have surgery and missed the playoffs.

Yeah making Mac play in that game was dumb and I’m sure it ticked Mac off because he ended up getting hurt. However, him wanting out of the slot, I don’t think that was any sort of reason why he left. He’s going to play the slot in cincy too. No matter who signed him, mac is a slot CB

I agree that Zimmer shouldn't have played Alexander in a meaningless game against the Bears. But to call that "the straw that broke the camel's back" is assuming that Alexander had a legitimate gripe in the first place. And that simply ain't true.

In fact, if anybody had a gripe, it was the Vikings. They took Alexander in the second round, even though he never recorded a single interception in college. They asked him to play the slot ... they had Rhodes, who was a Pro-Bowler at the time, and Waynes, who was beginning to show promise and was a freaking No. 11 pick ... and Mack sulked about it. For the first two years of his career, Mackenzie Alexander pissed and moaned about how he should be an outside corner, and in doing so, HE alienated himself to the Vikings' coaching staff. Instead of being a good teammate and doing what he was asked, he half-a$$ed it through two seasons, THEN decided that starting in the slot was better than not getting on the field at all. Once he began to actually try and to take the coaching offered to him, he became a pretty good slot corner ... which he could have done much earlier if he had decided to actually, you know, be part of the team.

So yes, Zimmer screwed up playing him against the Bears. At the same time, Alexander was medically cleared to play. His original injury was his ELBOW, not his knee. He could have hurt his knee even if he hadn't had a previous injury. One had nothing to do with the other. Mack was simply ticked that, when all the other "starters" sat, he had to play.

I would submit that Alexander's attitude, not his lack of ability, led to him only signing for 1 year and $4 million with a bottom-feeder like the Bengals. I suspect the market wasn't as strong for him as he thought it would be, but he felt "disrespected" and didn't want to come back to the Vikings.

Good riddance.

[halfgiz]

A week before the free agency they had Kearse & Mac both listed as gone.

[Raz]

Not sure I agree with all these moves not a fan of the dead money makes me wonder if we might as well of kept the player.
Maybe there is something else going we have talked about needing players to step up on the field and living up to there contract and being winners perhaps this is the start of the clean out and a message to others that you too could be gone.
Change for sure.
SKOL

[Pondering Her Percy]

Not sure I agree with all these moves not a fan of the dead money makes me wonder if we might as well of kept the player.
Maybe there is something else going we have talked about needing players to step up on the field and living up to there contract and being winners perhaps this is the start of the clean out and a message to others that you too could be gone.
Change for sure.
SKOL

Good point. Yeah some young guys definitely need to step up. But they are trying to start fresh in certain areas that struggled like CB. This is entirely about the draft and having 12+ picks this year and next. It sucks seeing these guys go but I think it’s smart. Otherwise we’d be in cap hell forever and just continue to get older.