Top needs in free agency and draft

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fiestavike
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by fiestavike » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:27 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:23 pm
fiestavike wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:19 pm


I said his contract would be a waste of money if you don't build him an offensive line capable of avoiding those very 'imperfect conditions' against better teams, and that's going to require a VERY good offensive line...one of the best in the NFL. That's what you'll need if you want to win a championship with Cousins.
Yet with the offensive line he had last year he finished the season as the #5 rated QB and the Vikings finished the season in a 4 way tie for 5th in the NFL. Not bad. You know something if he does the same this year I won't be disappointed at all.
And as I've tried to communicate, I don't find QB rating and season rating for offense terribly important in my analysis. I also won't be satisfied with a repeat of last year. My focus is on how to win a superbowl, not how to have a top 5 offense, or top five QBR. I think this might explain why our opinions diverge based on this evidence. We actually have different goals/hopes for the team, and ideas about what would constitute success.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by fiestavike » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:28 pm

Dames wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:26 pm
fiestavike wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:19 pm
I said his contract would be a waste of money if you don't build him an offensive line capable of avoiding those very 'imperfect conditions' against better teams, and that's going to require a VERY good offensive line...one of the best in the NFL. That's what you'll need if you want to win a championship with Cousins.
There were clearly some games where Kirk played well despite less than ideal conditions, but there were several key games last year where he really struggled under poor conditions. Making the line the best would obviously make a difference for any QB, but for Kirk, I think it would make more of a difference than many other QBs. Meaning, I think he needs ideal conditions more so than others. At least, that is my opinion.
That's fair. I'd be happy to agree with that statement.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by Texas Vike » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:30 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:14 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:21 pm


I feel like Johnson is a can't miss guy, similar to how I felt about Decker coming out of college. If we can get him late in the 2nd that is a steal, imo.
Don't be surprised if we get him in the 3rd or possibly even 4th round. The NFL has a bias against Minnesota Gophers. With that said Don't be surprised with Winfield falling to the 3rd round even.
Don't be surprised if these two Gophers, in particular, are drafted a lot higher than you think. The Gophers got A LOT more media attention than usual last season, and I suspect that we'll see that have an affect on the draft.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by Dames » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:31 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:23 pm
fiestavike wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:19 pm


I said his contract would be a waste of money if you don't build him an offensive line capable of avoiding those very 'imperfect conditions' against better teams, and that's going to require a VERY good offensive line...one of the best in the NFL. That's what you'll need if you want to win a championship with Cousins.
Yet with the offensive line he had last year he finished the season as the #5 rated QB and the Vikings finished the season in a 4 way tie for 5th in the NFL. Not bad. You know something if he does the same this year I won't be disappointed at all.
I get that, but you really can't throw out those key games where he was a big part of the losses. Those are the ones where I lose hope for him. I think he is very talented, and can be great... but he has a fatal flaw when the conditions are a certain level below ideal. There is a breaking point, and you can usually see it early in the games.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by fiestavike » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:43 pm

Dames wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:31 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:23 pm

Yet with the offensive line he had last year he finished the season as the #5 rated QB and the Vikings finished the season in a 4 way tie for 5th in the NFL. Not bad. You know something if he does the same this year I won't be disappointed at all.
I get that, but you really can't throw out those key games where he was a big part of the losses. Those are the ones where I lose hope for him. I think he is very talented, and can be great... but he has a fatal flaw when the conditions are a certain level below ideal. There is a breaking point, and you can usually see it early in the games.
Since we are financially committed to Cousins, and since a great OL isn't going to hurt any QB (even if we part with Cousins after next year) its the obvious course of action to really shore that up, draft picks, FA, Trade...but unfortunately we don't really have the cap room to do that at the moment given some of the other moves we've made, which makes this off season a bit puzzling. When we finally get to the point that we are pairing Cousins with an elite OL, what will be left of the rest of the team?

Well, drafting well is going to be of the utmost importance if the Vikings want to be contenders anytime in the near future.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by VikingsVictorious » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:47 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:27 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:23 pm

Yet with the offensive line he had last year he finished the season as the #5 rated QB and the Vikings finished the season in a 4 way tie for 5th in the NFL. Not bad. You know something if he does the same this year I won't be disappointed at all.
And as I've tried to communicate, I don't find QB rating and season rating for offense terribly important in my analysis. I also won't be satisfied with a repeat of last year. My focus is on how to win a superbowl, not how to have a top 5 offense, or top five QBR. I think this might explain why our opinions diverge based on this evidence. We actually have different goals/hopes for the team, and ideas about what would constitute success.
I want us to win the Super Bowl. However, it's IMO ridiculous to consider a season a failure if we don't win the Super Bowl. Did you see Tuscaloosa Nights: The Ballad of Ricky Bobby? He would always say if you're not first your last. Even his dad told him how stupid that was. There's 2nd 3rd 10th whatever. If only a championship will make you happy prepare for a long life of unhappiness.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by VikingsVictorious » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:49 pm

Texas Vike wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:30 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:14 pm

Don't be surprised if we get him in the 3rd or possibly even 4th round. The NFL has a bias against Minnesota Gophers. With that said Don't be surprised with Winfield falling to the 3rd round even.
Don't be surprised if these two Gophers, in particular, are drafted a lot higher than you think. The Gophers got A LOT more media attention than usual last season, and I suspect that we'll see that have an affect on the draft.
I'm expecting Winfield in the 2nd and Johnson in the third. We will see if they are drafted higher than I expect.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by VikingsVictorious » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:51 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:43 pm
Dames wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:31 pm

I get that, but you really can't throw out those key games where he was a big part of the losses. Those are the ones where I lose hope for him. I think he is very talented, and can be great... but he has a fatal flaw when the conditions are a certain level below ideal. There is a breaking point, and you can usually see it early in the games.
Since we are financially committed to Cousins, and since a great OL isn't going to hurt any QB (even if we part with Cousins after next year) its the obvious course of action to really shore that up, draft picks, FA, Trade...but unfortunately we don't really have the cap room to do that at the moment given some of the other moves we've made, which makes this off season a bit puzzling. When we finally get to the point that we are pairing Cousins with an elite OL, what will be left of the rest of the team?

Well, drafting well is going to be of the utmost importance if the Vikings want to be contenders anytime in the near future.
The Cowboys built their dynasty with very similar draft assets to what the Vikings have now. :D
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by Texas Vike » Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:16 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:49 pm
Texas Vike wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:30 pm


Don't be surprised if these two Gophers, in particular, are drafted a lot higher than you think. The Gophers got A LOT more media attention than usual last season, and I suspect that we'll see that have an affect on the draft.
I'm expecting Winfield in the 2nd and Johnson in the third. We will see if they are drafted higher than I expect.
Funny. I understood that when you wrote, "Don't be surprised if we get him in the 3rd or possibly even 4th round" that precisely THAT was your expectation. Your second take (2nd and 3rd) seems likely to me.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by fiestavike » Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:38 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:47 pm
fiestavike wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:27 pm


And as I've tried to communicate, I don't find QB rating and season rating for offense terribly important in my analysis. I also won't be satisfied with a repeat of last year. My focus is on how to win a superbowl, not how to have a top 5 offense, or top five QBR. I think this might explain why our opinions diverge based on this evidence. We actually have different goals/hopes for the team, and ideas about what would constitute success.
I want us to win the Super Bowl. However, it's IMO ridiculous to consider a season a failure if we don't win the Super Bowl. Did you see Tuscaloosa Nights: The Ballad of Ricky Bobby? He would always say if you're not first your last. Even his dad told him how stupid that was. There's 2nd 3rd 10th whatever. If only a championship will make you happy prepare for a long life of unhappiness.
Nope, not familiar with Tuscaloosa Nights. I understand the point you are making, and I can imagine a season coming up short and not being a disappointment, but not even being built to seriously contend (or obviously being on that path) is tough for me to swallow.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by Rhodes Closed » Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:00 pm

It's Taladega Nights, btw.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by VikingsVictorious » Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:01 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:38 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:47 pm

I want us to win the Super Bowl. However, it's IMO ridiculous to consider a season a failure if we don't win the Super Bowl. Did you see Tuscaloosa Nights: The Ballad of Ricky Bobby? He would always say if you're not first your last. Even his dad told him how stupid that was. There's 2nd 3rd 10th whatever. If only a championship will make you happy prepare for a long life of unhappiness.
Nope, not familiar with Tuscaloosa Nights. I understand the point you are making, and I can imagine a season coming up short and not being a disappointment, but not even being built to seriously contend (or obviously being on that path) is tough for me to swallow.
Tuscaloosa Nights is only slightly behind Joe Dirt in must be seen movies. We had it so good in the 70s with those incredible Vikings teams of those times. I would love to return to 4 superbowls in like 6 years even if we lose every one. Sure the losing being that close would suck, but it would sure be a fun ride.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by VikingsVictorious » Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:03 pm

Rhodes Closed wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:00 pm
It's Taladega Nights, btw.
Taladega/tuscaloosa ToeMAYToe/ToeMahToe :lol:
Thanks for the correction.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by VikingsVictorious » Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:06 pm

Texas Vike wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:16 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:49 pm

I'm expecting Winfield in the 2nd and Johnson in the third. We will see if they are drafted higher than I expect.
Funny. I understood that when you wrote, "Don't be surprised if we get him in the 3rd or possibly even 4th round" that precisely THAT was your expectation. Your second take (2nd and 3rd) seems likely to me.
I was referring to Johnson about not being surprised in the 3rd or 4th. I certainly believe either of those rounds is possible. I think 3rd round is most likely. With Winfield don't be surprised by 2nd or 3rd with 2nd being most likely. I hope I have made my thoughts more clear now.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by Bowhunting Viking » Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:56 am

Rhodes Closed wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:00 pm
It's Taladega Nights, btw.
Glad you said it. I was really bummed thinking I somehow missed a sequel for Talledega Nights. I was gonna stab myself in the leg with a fork!!!
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