Top needs in free agency and draft

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VikingsVictorious
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by VikingsVictorious » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:14 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:21 pm
Dames wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:09 pm

I would certainly like to have him with the Vikings, although I'm sure there is some local bias built into that. Who doesn't love cheering for the local guys though? Thielen is a great story, and Johnson has some success like that here, it would also be a great story. it certainly would be good for jersey sales in his rookie year :)
I feel like Johnson is a can't miss guy, similar to how I felt about Decker coming out of college. If we can get him late in the 2nd that is a steal, imo.
Don't be surprised if we get him in the 3rd or possibly even 4th round. The NFL has a bias against Minnesota Gophers. With that said Don't be surprised with Winfield falling to the 3rd round even.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by VikingsVictorious » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:15 pm

Mothman wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:11 pm
Texas Vike wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:03 pm
Bailey just agreed to terms with the Vikings.
I saw that. One less roster spot to fill! :)
are the terms available?
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by Rhodes Closed » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:16 pm

Mothman wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:40 pm
Rhodes Closed wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:32 pm


Calling someone negative isn't a personal attack, it is an observation of the generality of their arguments. But you're the mod, whatever.
What did I JUST say?

Making an "observation of the generality of their arguments" is still focusing on the person, not football.
K.


Also good on getting Bailey back. He's having a resurgence since his injury back with Dallas so it's good to see him come back and hopefully continue to do well.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by fiestavike » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:17 pm

If I'm not going to be allowed to point out that the person is being negative then I will simply choose to ignore that person and let their attacks on Cousins or others go unchallenged. This will greatly decrease the dialog on this message board, but so be it.
In truth, I think that will dramatically improve the dialog on this message board.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by Mothman » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:17 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:15 pm
Mothman wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:11 pm


I saw that. One less roster spot to fill! :)
are the terms available?
It's a three-year deal. I'm not sure of the terms beyond that.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by VikingsVictorious » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:26 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:17 pm
If I'm not going to be allowed to point out that the person is being negative then I will simply choose to ignore that person and let their attacks on Cousins or others go unchallenged. This will greatly decrease the dialog on this message board, but so be it.
In truth, I think that will dramatically improve the dialog on this message board.
Leaving attacks against our players unchallenged will dramatically improve the dialog. I don't think so.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by fiestavike » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:32 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:26 pm
fiestavike wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:17 pm


In truth, I think that will dramatically improve the dialog on this message board.
Leaving attacks against our players unchallenged will dramatically improve the dialog. I don't think so.
If somebody doesn't like something about Kirk Cousins as a QB, or Xavier Rhodes as a CB, or Kline as a RG, its not an 'attack against our players'.

The analysis might be right or wrong, it might be interesting or uninteresting, but its not invalid because it is critical.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by VikingsVictorious » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:36 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:32 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:26 pm


Leaving attacks against our players unchallenged will dramatically improve the dialog. I don't think so.
If somebody doesn't like something about Kirk Cousins as a QB, or Xavier Rhodes as a CB, or Kline as a RG, its not an 'attack against our players'.

The analysis might be right or wrong, it might be interesting or uninteresting, but its not invalid because it is critical.
I have no problem with people criticizing our players as long as they aren't totally rude or disgusting about it. If I see that criticism as ridiculous I should challenge it, but if I have to walk on eggshells to do so I would just rather not. Maybe you get where I'm coming from and maybe you don't.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by VikingsVictorious » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:47 pm

IMO the Vikings have a strong history of keeping our own rather than going after their's. I think we did that to a fault such as keeping Barr. So far this year we have kept a few of our cheap players, but have let so many go or they didn't want to be here. If we are going for the full rebuild it seems that Reiff should be dumped and maybe let Griffen go as well.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by fiestavike » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:48 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:36 pm
fiestavike wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:32 pm


If somebody doesn't like something about Kirk Cousins as a QB, or Xavier Rhodes as a CB, or Kline as a RG, its not an 'attack against our players'.

The analysis might be right or wrong, it might be interesting or uninteresting, but its not invalid because it is critical.
I have no problem with people criticizing our players as long as they aren't totally rude or disgusting about it. If I see that criticism as ridiculous I should challenge it, but if I have to walk on eggshells to do so I would just rather not. Maybe you get where I'm coming from and maybe you don't.
I don't think its important that you challenge opinions you find ridiculous, at least not until you consider them long enough that they cease to be ridiculous. That's when we can actually get back to having a decent discussion on this board. If people just want to entrench on both sides and 'defend' our players, or their perspective, things deteriorate. Its really not hard for me to see the things that people like about Kirk Cousins. He prepares hard, he's been durable, he throws a nice ball, he's put up good numbers, and in ideal conditions he can put up great numbers. I will gladly concede all those things. I always have. Many times I have said, 'Kirk Cousins is nearly great'. But, I also see some big negatives, especially that those 'ideal conditions' are pretty rare in the NFL, we don't currently have the personnel to increase their frequency, and the tougher the competition the more frequently you face a lack 'ideal conditions'. Finally, Kirk sometimes is particularly bad when the conditions get pretty damn far from ideal.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by VikingsVictorious » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:52 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:48 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:36 pm

I have no problem with people criticizing our players as long as they aren't totally rude or disgusting about it. If I see that criticism as ridiculous I should challenge it, but if I have to walk on eggshells to do so I would just rather not. Maybe you get where I'm coming from and maybe you don't.
I don't think its important that you challenge opinions you find ridiculous, at least not until you consider them long enough that they cease to be ridiculous. That's when we can actually get back to having a decent discussion on this board. If people just want to entrench on both sides and 'defend' our players, or their perspective, things deteriorate. Its really not hard for me to see the things that people like about Kirk Cousins. He prepares hard, he's been durable, he throws a nice ball, he's put up good numbers, and in ideal conditions he can put up great numbers. I will gladly concede all those things. I always have. Many times I have said, 'Kirk Cousins is nearly great'. But, I also see some big negatives, especially that those 'ideal conditions' are pretty rare in the NFL, we don't currently have the personnel to increase their frequency, and the tougher the competition the more frequently you face a lack 'ideal conditions'. Finally, Kirk sometimes is particularly bad when the conditions get pretty damn far from ideal.
I don't agree with you 100% on this post, but it's mostly correct and a heck of a lot more fair than the post where you said ( slight exaggeration coming)we had to get him a perfect offensive line that never allowed any pressure on him at all ever or he would be completely worthless. I think that was you. My apologies if it wasn't.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by Dames » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:16 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:14 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:21 pm


I feel like Johnson is a can't miss guy, similar to how I felt about Decker coming out of college. If we can get him late in the 2nd that is a steal, imo.
Don't be surprised if we get him in the 3rd or possibly even 4th round. The NFL has a bias against Minnesota Gophers. With that said Don't be surprised with Winfield falling to the 3rd round even.
If we can get either or both of them there, I think it would be amazing.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by fiestavike » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:19 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:52 pm
fiestavike wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:48 pm


I don't think its important that you challenge opinions you find ridiculous, at least not until you consider them long enough that they cease to be ridiculous. That's when we can actually get back to having a decent discussion on this board. If people just want to entrench on both sides and 'defend' our players, or their perspective, things deteriorate. Its really not hard for me to see the things that people like about Kirk Cousins. He prepares hard, he's been durable, he throws a nice ball, he's put up good numbers, and in ideal conditions he can put up great numbers. I will gladly concede all those things. I always have. Many times I have said, 'Kirk Cousins is nearly great'. But, I also see some big negatives, especially that those 'ideal conditions' are pretty rare in the NFL, we don't currently have the personnel to increase their frequency, and the tougher the competition the more frequently you face a lack 'ideal conditions'. Finally, Kirk sometimes is particularly bad when the conditions get pretty damn far from ideal.
I don't agree with you 100% on this post, but it's mostly correct and a heck of a lot more fair than the post where you said ( slight exaggeration coming)we had to get him a perfect offensive line that never allowed any pressure on him at all ever or he would be completely worthless. I think that was you. My apologies if it wasn't.
I said his contract would be a waste of money if you don't build him an offensive line capable of avoiding those very 'imperfect conditions' against better teams, and that's going to require a VERY good offensive line...one of the best in the NFL. That's what you'll need if you want to win a championship with Cousins.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by VikingsVictorious » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:23 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:19 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:52 pm


I don't agree with you 100% on this post, but it's mostly correct and a heck of a lot more fair than the post where you said ( slight exaggeration coming)we had to get him a perfect offensive line that never allowed any pressure on him at all ever or he would be completely worthless. I think that was you. My apologies if it wasn't.
I said his contract would be a waste of money if you don't build him an offensive line capable of avoiding those very 'imperfect conditions' against better teams, and that's going to require a VERY good offensive line...one of the best in the NFL. That's what you'll need if you want to win a championship with Cousins.
Yet with the offensive line he had last year he finished the season as the #5 rated QB and the Vikings finished the season in a 4 way tie for 5th in the NFL. Not bad. You know something if he does the same this year I won't be disappointed at all.
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Re: Top needs in free agency and draft

Post by Dames » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:26 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:19 pm
I said his contract would be a waste of money if you don't build him an offensive line capable of avoiding those very 'imperfect conditions' against better teams, and that's going to require a VERY good offensive line...one of the best in the NFL. That's what you'll need if you want to win a championship with Cousins.
There were clearly some games where Kirk played well despite less than ideal conditions, but there were several key games last year where he really struggled under poor conditions. Making the line the best would obviously make a difference for any QB, but for Kirk, I think it would make more of a difference than many other QBs. Meaning, I think he needs ideal conditions more so than others. At least, that is my opinion.
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