Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

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CharVike
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by CharVike » Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:56 pm

Dames wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:22 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:32 am
There has actually been quite a bit of chatter around trading Diggs. A colossal mistake to break up this WR duo, but we did trade Moss in his prime, so anything can happen.
I'm a huge Diggs fan, but honestly I think a lot of us overvalue him. As good as he is, he's not able to take over a game and carry the team. He is no Moss. That trade pissed me off. I would hate to trade Diggs too, but not anywhere near the same level. While it wouldn't be likely possible to replace him, if we have the choice between Diggs vs an instantly better Oline, or Diggs vs franchise QB, I think the choice is pretty easy one.

That said, the chances that either one works out is far from a guarantee, so I guess nothing would happen. That's probably the right choice.

Regarding the trade rumors, I believe there is truth in there. I don't know that Diggs requested a trade, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did. If he did, this coming year could get ugly if we keep him and things don't go right. I believe he just wants to win and he's not just being a diva, but honestly there is a reason these rumors get started, and it's not all a media creation.
I agree with you on this. He's not close to Moss. Moss had teams crapping their pants trying to figure out how to stop him. He was a game changer. Get the ball in his hands and he could take it to the house from anywhere. HOF guy. Diggs can't do that. Plus with Diggs you need to put up with all the BS. Skipping practices and who knows what else. Just think of the BS that we don't know about. I don't see a team giving up a 1st rounder.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by CharVike » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:15 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:15 pm
CharVike wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:54 pm

With all have an opinion. I would go the opposite route. Tua's arm isn't what I would take. He can't make NFL level throws. The secondary will pinch the middle of the field. I've seen that act before.
Ummm, what?

Scouting report of weaknesses for Tua from Walter football:
Lack of elite arm strength

Burrow:
Arm-strength limitations

:lol:
Here is my thought. Tua went to the all time media center for college football. I watched him and he's not a guy I would take round 1. Can't make the throws needed IMO. Burrow has 2nd to 3rd round talent according to pre season projections. Now he will go first overall. The guy still has the same talent level. I was hoping we would look at him in the 2nd. Speilman isn't picking a QB anyway. But the dude will go number 1 overall. Over drafting a guy with the 1st pick isn't very smart. Better off trading that pick for the farm.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by FullWood » Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:35 am

I'm worried about Tua injury. I would avoid him even if he was in our hands at the draft. It's wishful thinking to trade for Joe Burrow because he will be great but what would we give up? I know the Bengals will want him.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:16 am

CharVike wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:15 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:15 pm

Ummm, what?

Scouting report of weaknesses for Tua from Walter football:
Lack of elite arm strength

Burrow:
Arm-strength limitations

:lol:
Here is my thought. Tua went to the all time media center for college football. I watched him and he's not a guy I would take round 1. Can't make the throws needed IMO. Burrow has 2nd to 3rd round talent according to pre season projections. Now he will go first overall. The guy still has the same talent level. I was hoping we would look at him in the 2nd. Speilman isn't picking a QB anyway. But the dude will go number 1 overall. Over drafting a guy with the 1st pick isn't very smart. Better off trading that pick for the farm.
What throws can't he make?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.saturd ... -been/amp/

The guy was the consensus #1 pick before he got hurt. How can that be true if he can't make all the throws?

As you said, Burrows kind of became that #1 guy by default and was not considered 1st round talent until the mid point of the season. Why do you prefer him over the guy who pretty much everyone felt was the best player available this year? Weird.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by Dames » Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:47 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:16 am
CharVike wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:15 am
Tua went to the all time media center for college football. I watched him and he's not a guy I would take round 1. Can't make the throws needed IMO.
What throws can't he make?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.saturd ... -been/amp/

The guy was the consensus #1 pick before he got hurt. How can that be true if he can't make all the throws?

As you said, Burrows kind of became that #1 guy by default and was not considered 1st round talent until the mid point of the season. Why do you prefer him over the guy who pretty much everyone felt was the best player available this year? Weird.
Well, Char said Brees was a media creation too, so kinda hard to take him seriously when it comes to QB evaluations :)

I wouldn't mind the Vikings going after Tua at all. Too bad it will never happen.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:51 am

Dames wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:47 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:16 am

What throws can't he make?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.saturd ... -been/amp/

The guy was the consensus #1 pick before he got hurt. How can that be true if he can't make all the throws?

As you said, Burrows kind of became that #1 guy by default and was not considered 1st round talent until the mid point of the season. Why do you prefer him over the guy who pretty much everyone felt was the best player available this year? Weird.
Well, Char said Brees was a media creation too, so kinda hard to take him seriously when it comes to QB evaluations :)

I wouldn't mind the Vikings going after Tua at all. Too bad it will never happen.
Correct. They are going to extend Cousins this off season and make him the highest paid QB in 2021. He is the safest option, even if he isn't an option that will help the team win a SB. What a great time to be a Viking fan... :puke:
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by Dames » Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:08 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:51 am
Correct. They are going to extend Cousins this off season and make him the highest paid QB in 2021. He is the safest option, even if he isn't an option that will help the team win a SB. What a great time to be a Viking fan... :puke:
That's probably true. I'm holding out hope that they can somehow make it a cap friendly deal with an out of some kind... but I suppose that's asking too much.

I think Cousins is fine next year if the line improves, but I still would prefer to draft a QB and have hope for the future.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by CharVike » Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:12 am

Dames wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:47 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:16 am

What throws can't he make?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.saturd ... -been/amp/

The guy was the consensus #1 pick before he got hurt. How can that be true if he can't make all the throws?

As you said, Burrows kind of became that #1 guy by default and was not considered 1st round talent until the mid point of the season. Why do you prefer him over the guy who pretty much everyone felt was the best player available this year? Weird.
Well, Char said Brees was a media creation too, so kinda hard to take him seriously when it comes to QB evaluations :)

I wouldn't mind the Vikings going after Tua at all. Too bad it will never happen.
That's fair. He's considered the best QB prospect this year. I don't see that. Tau doesn't have the arm that I like. I also could be wrong and he will be the next Montanna and make the HOF. Playing were he did the eyes are on him. If he played for Collgate you would never hear of him. Brees had a great career. We beat him in the playoffs 2 of 3 years. He let the all time loser Cousins beat him at home as a heavy favorite. Brees looked like crap. That means nothing. Cousins is a loser but Brees isn't. The bum Keenum who is a bigger loser beat him. Doesn't anyone see a trend here? Or am I making this up? The media talks about Brees as if he's the all time winner and they talk about Cousins as the all time loser. The media didn't come out and say Cousins beat Brees. It was a feel good story about Brees and why he lost. That's media or maybe I'm way off.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by Dames » Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:36 am

CharVike wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:12 am
That's fair. He's considered the best QB prospect this year. I don't see that. Tau doesn't have the arm that I like. I also could be wrong and he will be the next Montanna and make the HOF. Playing were he did the eyes are on him. If he played for Collgate you would never hear of him. Brees had a great career. We beat him in the playoffs 2 of 3 years. He let the all time loser Cousins beat him at home as a heavy favorite. Brees looked like crap. That means nothing. Cousins is a loser but Brees isn't. The bum Keenum who is a bigger loser beat him. Doesn't anyone see a trend here? Or am I making this up? The media talks about Brees as if he's the all time winner and they talk about Cousins as the all time loser. The media didn't come out and say Cousins beat Brees. It was a feel good story about Brees and why he lost. That's media or maybe I'm way off.
It's never about wins and losses for me, at least on the surface. That's a team stat that unfairly gets attributed to QBs. Sure, QBs obviously have an effect on the outcome of games, and better QBs tend to find more ways to win over the long haul, but if you play on poor teams, you're going to lose more no matter how good of a QB you are. Brees was not great in the playoffs vs us this year, but he was good enough in 2017. His team lost twice to us. He had a negative influence on the loss this year, I'll give you that, but I wouldn't say he has a history of being a loser because of it.

Cousins doesn't deserve the "can't win the big games" crap either. It's BS. He does deserve being called out for crumbling in certain situations though, and it has nothing to do with prime time or the playoffs. He plays often plays well enough in those situations to be honest. He has a clear track record of falling apart when things don't go as planned. So, yeah, the media has a false narrative about Cousins, but he still has a fatal flaw. It's just different than what the media says. :) The media can be lazy sometimes though, his record is the low hanging fruit.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by VikeFanInEagleLand » Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:39 am

CharVike wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:12 am

That's fair. He's considered the best QB prospect this year. I don't see that. Tau doesn't have the arm that I like. I also could be wrong and he will be the next Montanna and make the HOF. Playing were he did the eyes are on him. If he played for Collgate you would never hear of him. Brees had a great career. We beat him in the playoffs 2 of 3 years. He let the all time loser Cousins beat him at home as a heavy favorite. Brees looked like crap. That means nothing. Cousins is a loser but Brees isn't. The bum Keenum who is a bigger loser beat him. Doesn't anyone see a trend here? Or am I making this up? The media talks about Brees as if he's the all time winner and they talk about Cousins as the all time loser. The media didn't come out and say Cousins beat Brees. It was a feel good story about Brees and why he lost. That's media or maybe I'm way off.
You are all over the place with your posts. One minute you're defending Cousins, but now he's an "all time loser"? Cousins is far from an all time loser. It's no secret that I have criticisms of him, but at least he has enough to give me hope. There are some QB's that I would say "No way can we EVER win a SB with him", and even though i don't think we will with Cousins, at least I believe there's a chance with a good enough team around him.

As for Brees:

NFL records
All time leader in career passing yards – 77,416.[12]
All time leader in regular season career passing touchdowns – 547.[13]
All-time leader in pass completions – 6,867.

I don't think Brees is a figment of the media's imagination. He's getting older, yes, but he still had a heck of a year.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:51 am

CharVike wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:12 am
Dames wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:47 am

Well, Char said Brees was a media creation too, so kinda hard to take him seriously when it comes to QB evaluations :)

I wouldn't mind the Vikings going after Tua at all. Too bad it will never happen.
That's fair. He's considered the best QB prospect this year. I don't see that. Tau doesn't have the arm that I like. I also could be wrong and he will be the next Montanna and make the HOF. Playing were he did the eyes are on him. If he played for Collgate you would never hear of him. Brees had a great career. We beat him in the playoffs 2 of 3 years. He let the all time loser Cousins beat him at home as a heavy favorite. Brees looked like crap. That means nothing. Cousins is a loser but Brees isn't. The bum Keenum who is a bigger loser beat him. Doesn't anyone see a trend here? Or am I making this up? The media talks about Brees as if he's the all time winner and they talk about Cousins as the all time loser. The media didn't come out and say Cousins beat Brees. It was a feel good story about Brees and why he lost. That's media or maybe I'm way off.
It is fine you don't like Tua because of his arm. I don't think it is a valid concern, but it is fine. Where I see inconsistencies in your opinion is that you do like Burrows, who has a worse arm and was a worse prospect before Tua got hurt.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by CharVike » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:32 am

CharVike wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:12 am
Dames wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:47 am

Well, Char said Brees was a media creation too, so kinda hard to take him seriously when it comes to QB evaluations :)

I wouldn't mind the Vikings going after Tua at all. Too bad it will never happen.
That's fair. He's considered the best QB prospect this year. I don't see that. Tau doesn't have the arm that I like. I also could be wrong and he will be the next Montanna and make the HOF. Playing were he did the eyes are on him. If he played for Collgate you would never hear of him. Brees had a great career. We beat him in the playoffs 2 of 3 years. He let the all time loser Cousins beat him at home as a heavy favorite. Brees looked like crap. That means nothing. Cousins is a loser but Brees isn't. The bum Keenum who is a bigger loser beat him. Doesn't anyone see a trend here? Or am I making this up? The media talks about Brees as if he's the all time winner and they talk about Cousins as the all time loser. The media didn't come out and say Cousins beat Brees. It was a feel good story about Brees and why he lost. That's media or maybe I'm way off.
I remember watching Marino in college and I was like this dude can throw a ball. Then he feel off the cliff in the draft. I'm not saying arm is the only thing but I have seen weak arms make it too hard for guys. Just look at our recent bust like Ponder. That's why I liked Wade Wilson over Kramer towards the end. At least Wilson could throw it deep to Anthony Carter. That opens other things up.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by CharVike » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:16 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:51 am
CharVike wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:12 am

That's fair. He's considered the best QB prospect this year. I don't see that. Tau doesn't have the arm that I like. I also could be wrong and he will be the next Montanna and make the HOF. Playing were he did the eyes are on him. If he played for Collgate you would never hear of him. Brees had a great career. We beat him in the playoffs 2 of 3 years. He let the all time loser Cousins beat him at home as a heavy favorite. Brees looked like crap. That means nothing. Cousins is a loser but Brees isn't. The bum Keenum who is a bigger loser beat him. Doesn't anyone see a trend here? Or am I making this up? The media talks about Brees as if he's the all time winner and they talk about Cousins as the all time loser. The media didn't come out and say Cousins beat Brees. It was a feel good story about Brees and why he lost. That's media or maybe I'm way off.
It is fine you don't like Tua because of his arm. I don't think it is a valid concern, but it is fine. Where I see inconsistencies in your opinion is that you do like Burrows, who has a worse arm and was a worse prospect before Tua got hurt.
I think there arms a close. Neither jumps out from the other. I liked Burrow because the kid was projected as a 2nd or 3rd round pick. That's in our territory. Now he's No 1. He's out. Same talent level and I wouldn't trade the next 5 years for him. I liked that kid last year Drew Lock because he was in our draft area. He wasn't the top guy. But Speilman skipped which pissed me off. That's a guy who could have watched a few years and been ready. We may have no choice but to keep Cousins a few more years. Speilman don't have a guy in the hole which is stupid. The Pack selected Rodgers when Farve was the star still and had years left. Cousins isn't close to Farve I know that. I don't see a QB picked this year either.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by CharVike » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:16 am

Dames wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:36 am
CharVike wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:12 am
That's fair. He's considered the best QB prospect this year. I don't see that. Tau doesn't have the arm that I like. I also could be wrong and he will be the next Montanna and make the HOF. Playing were he did the eyes are on him. If he played for Collgate you would never hear of him. Brees had a great career. We beat him in the playoffs 2 of 3 years. He let the all time loser Cousins beat him at home as a heavy favorite. Brees looked like crap. That means nothing. Cousins is a loser but Brees isn't. The bum Keenum who is a bigger loser beat him. Doesn't anyone see a trend here? Or am I making this up? The media talks about Brees as if he's the all time winner and they talk about Cousins as the all time loser. The media didn't come out and say Cousins beat Brees. It was a feel good story about Brees and why he lost. That's media or maybe I'm way off.
It's never about wins and losses for me, at least on the surface. That's a team stat that unfairly gets attributed to QBs. Sure, QBs obviously have an effect on the outcome of games, and better QBs tend to find more ways to win over the long haul, but if you play on poor teams, you're going to lose more no matter how good of a QB you are. Brees was not great in the playoffs vs us this year, but he was good enough in 2017. His team lost twice to us. He had a negative influence on the loss this year, I'll give you that, but I wouldn't say he has a history of being a loser because of it.

Cousins doesn't deserve the "can't win the big games" crap either. It's BS. He does deserve being called out for crumbling in certain situations though, and it has nothing to do with prime time or the playoffs. He plays often plays well enough in those situations to be honest. He has a clear track record of falling apart when things don't go as planned. So, yeah, the media has a false narrative about Cousins, but he still has a fatal flaw. It's just different than what the media says. :) The media can be lazy sometimes though, his record is the low hanging fruit.
That's a good post and exactly how I feel. I don't care who the QB is if the team blows he won't be very good. Everybody blamed the Skins problems on Cousins. They have been worse since he left. They had a highly skilled 1st round pick playing and they still blow. Guess what? That team blows. Put the best ever Brady on that squad and they will still blow. He would be lucky to make it through the season. Brady took some hits this year in the playoffs and he wasn't close to the same guy. It always happens that way. Brady didn't like getting banged around. A 50% passer. That don't cut it. Stand in there and wait for a guy to clear. Now Mahomes is considered the best in the game. That Titian team didn't even send guys after him. He stood there forever. On one play the announcers even said he threw to quickly after standing there about 20 seconds. Even he throws too quickly. Well he better throw quickly against this 49er team and don't throw at Sherman or say bye bye. Be a different game and we will see what the best has to offer. Jimmy G is constantly at press conferences. Come on the guy attempted a couple passes. He had nothing to do with the win. But the media is creating him out to be one of the best. Make that guy throw and the 49ers will be in trouble. Bottom line to me the media creates this stuff and most people believe what they see.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by CharVike » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:49 am

VikeFanInEagleLand wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:39 am
CharVike wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:12 am

That's fair. He's considered the best QB prospect this year. I don't see that. Tau doesn't have the arm that I like. I also could be wrong and he will be the next Montanna and make the HOF. Playing were he did the eyes are on him. If he played for Collgate you would never hear of him. Brees had a great career. We beat him in the playoffs 2 of 3 years. He let the all time loser Cousins beat him at home as a heavy favorite. Brees looked like crap. That means nothing. Cousins is a loser but Brees isn't. The bum Keenum who is a bigger loser beat him. Doesn't anyone see a trend here? Or am I making this up? The media talks about Brees as if he's the all time winner and they talk about Cousins as the all time loser. The media didn't come out and say Cousins beat Brees. It was a feel good story about Brees and why he lost. That's media or maybe I'm way off.
You are all over the place with your posts. One minute you're defending Cousins, but now he's an "all time loser"? Cousins is far from an all time loser. It's no secret that I have criticisms of him, but at least he has enough to give me hope. There are some QB's that I would say "No way can we EVER win a SB with him", and even though i don't think we will with Cousins, at least I believe there's a chance with a good enough team around him.

As for Brees:

NFL records
All time leader in career passing yards – 77,416.[12]
All time leader in regular season career passing touchdowns – 547.[13]
All-time leader in pass completions – 6,867.

I don't think Brees is a figment of the media's imagination. He's getting older, yes, but he still had a heck of a year.
The media paints him out to be the all time loser. I have said it many times and still stand by it. Cousins is the best since Fran. The guy plays every game and takes a beating behind a crap line. Still hangs in there. I watched Mahomes and he could just stand there waiting. Not a few seconds but could have stood there a few minutes but unloaded. Brees is a HOF guy. He had a great career and he came back from nothing. He's finished. They have a great backup in Teddy, that's not me but posters here, why not just let him take over. Why? Because he sucks. I jump I know that. I hope that clears things up. Again Brees is a HOFer.
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