Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by Texas Vike » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:47 am

VikingLord wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:28 am
If there was ever a draft where successful drafting and a little luck were critical, especially in the first 3 rounds, this upcoming one is it for the Vikings. This is a deep CB class. Spielman has a good shot of landing a starter in the 2nd. I think he can address the interior of the OL or DL in the 1st and 3rd. And I think he could find a gem at QB in the 4th or even 5th, especially given said QB would get a full year of no-pressure development behind Cousins.

Yeah, the lure of the home run swing is always there, but Spielman needs to string together several base hits to keep this team in the mix next year and then position it for several more years. That's how he's going to win given what he's building off of from this season.
I like the sound of the vision you sketch here. I just wish I had more faith in Rick actually executing it, especially the part about investing a 4th or 5th in a QB to groom. I think this is an interesting thread, despite the peacocking bombast of the original title. It is a bit naive, though. We aren't the only ones to realize that Burrow is a once in a decade type of prospect, obviously, so for anyone to move into the #1 spot it will require an extraordinary offer that will debilitate the team in other areas, a la Herschel. It's kind of a fun thing to contemplate though!
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by VikeFanInEagleLand » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:14 pm

Obviously, I would love to have Burrow but I see no way that's going to happen. I think we need to accept the fact that Cousins is our QB for at least next year and probably beyond, and hope for the best. Hopefully they are successful at plugging the other holes on the team and then we can hope and pray that Cousins has enough of a team beside him to succeed.

So, I guess in answer to the question....Unless we can steal him, then "No" we shouldn't trade for him. Maybe next year, or the year after that, there will be another opportunity to grab a Burrow-type QB.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:20 pm

I kind of hope Tua falls because of the injury. Sitting him for a year behind Cousins while he gets back to 100% and then having him come out in 2021 throwing to Diggs and Theilen is ideal.

Honestly, if both were sitting there at 25, I might go Tua over Burrows, depending on what my team doctors say about the injury.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by Fat Stupid Loser » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:34 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:12 pm
If 3 firsts would get us up to the top of the draft to get our QB, I'm in.
Worked out great for the Skins. All drafts are crap shoots. Really easy to miss on the sure thing prospects. Giving up that much for an unproven player is always a mistake. I wouldn't do it.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by Fat Stupid Loser » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:38 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:40 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:31 am
Assuming he waved his no trade clause, we should be able to trade Kirk Cousins for the #1 overall pick and our 1st. A top 10 QB should be worth that and then some.
We aren’t trading cousins.
And who trades top 10 QBs?
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by CharVike » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:54 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:20 pm
I kind of hope Tua falls because of the injury. Sitting him for a year behind Cousins while he gets back to 100% and then having him come out in 2021 throwing to Diggs and Theilen is ideal.

Honestly, if both were sitting there at 25, I might go Tua over Burrows, depending on what my team doctors say about the injury.
With all have an opinion. I would go the opposite route. Tua's arm isn't what I would take. He can't make NFL level throws. The secondary will pinch the middle of the field. I've seen that act before.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:15 pm

CharVike wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:54 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:20 pm
I kind of hope Tua falls because of the injury. Sitting him for a year behind Cousins while he gets back to 100% and then having him come out in 2021 throwing to Diggs and Theilen is ideal.

Honestly, if both were sitting there at 25, I might go Tua over Burrows, depending on what my team doctors say about the injury.
With all have an opinion. I would go the opposite route. Tua's arm isn't what I would take. He can't make NFL level throws. The secondary will pinch the middle of the field. I've seen that act before.
Ummm, what?

Scouting report of weaknesses for Tua from Walter football:
Lack of elite arm strength

Burrow:
Arm-strength limitations

:lol:
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:19 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:22 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:34 am


I get what you're saying but by trading Diggs, it's now opening another need at WR. I see you said AJ Green but Thielen is going to be 30 and Green will be 32 by that point. We would just have to end up passing on either CB or OL in the 1st and draft a WR. Because the chances of either of those 2 holding up the entire season is slim to none. Granted Diggs has had his share of injuries but they are mostly a game or two here and there. Not half the season or more. I would say if those two were our WRs next year and given Thielen is aging (I know he's usually fairly healthy), I would not be surprised if Bisi Johnson or anyone else we bring in would be our #1 WR for AT LEAST a game or two.

This Vikings team is much different than let's say the 2010 team when we went into rebuild. When you head into a rebuild you have next to nothing left and a bare bones roster for the most part. Not counting cut candidates we still have Cook, Thielen, Diggs, Rudy/Irv, Oneill, Bradbury, Hunter, Kendricks, Barr, Smith, Harris (hopefully), Mac (hopefully) and Hughes. This team is miles away from any kind of rebuild so why trade stud players when you dont have to? It would be like we're forcing a rebuild when we dont really need to or should
Again, I'm just spitballing.

But I have to disagree a little on the rebuild. We're not as bad off as we were in 2010, or especially 2013, but if we're being honest, we're more than a player or two from being a Super Bowl contender. Athletic defenses destroyed us in 2019. Our defense, especially in the defensive backfield, held on for dear life, and they're not getting younger. Right now, this team is no more a SB contender next year than they were this year, and probably less so, unless we get a serious infusion of talent. Two firsts and two seconds would go a long way toward that.

Think for a moment about Diggs' value relative to what he cost us. Talk about buying low and selling high. In this pass-crazy league, teams are willing to give up a king's ransom for fast, talented, experienced wideouts. Given how desperate Oakland was to get their hands on Antonio Brown, and given the draft capital they received in the Khalil Mack trade, I have to believe they'd be interested in Diggs. And in October, there was talk that the Jets would give up a minimum of a first and a second for Diggs -- given their record at the time, those picks would have been high in each round. How do you not at least consider an offer like that?

As for your take on drafting a WR ... if you sign somebody like A.J. Green, a Diggs trade wouldn't necessitate the use of a high pick on a WR this year. In the future, maybe. But if we're looking at the 2020 team as a non-rebuild, then we have to be thinking 2020. A healthy A.J. Green is every bit the receiver Stefon Diggs is in 2020. He also wouldn't have the learning curve of a rookie.

Again, I'm not advocating a Diggs trade. But I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if teams call about him. And because he's one of those guys that teams might be willing to overpay for, I think the Vikings would consider it if the price was right.
The IDEA of it makes complete sense Kapp. But I said before regarding guys calling for a rebuild. There is a difference between rebuilding and reloading. We need to reload, not rebuild. When you have the amount of good young players like we have, you dont rebuild unless you trade a bunch of them away. Again, rebuilding is starting from borderline scratch with maybe a good young player or two still on the roster. We have plenty of good young players.

And I am sure teams will call on Diggs. I just dont see us trading him. It's not unrealistic but unlikely.

As for Green, drafting a WR early is exactly what you'd want to do in that situation. Because that WR gets to learn behind two of the best to play the position in the last 5+ years and will have a much easier transition when they are gone. Drafting a WR in the future when you desperately NEED one isnt a good approach. Because WR's need time. It's hardly just, walk in and light the league up. So as we're now waiting for this WR to develop our passing game struggles because we dont have anyone reliable there.

He was better than Diggs in his prime but I'd be hard pressed to see him ever outproduce Diggs again. We'd be getting rid of 26 year old Diggs for 32 year old injury prone Green and then drafting no insurance, at least in early rounds. I'm just personally not a fan. It would have to really be the right offer for me to be okay with parting with Diggs.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by VikingLord » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:58 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:20 pm
I kind of hope Tua falls because of the injury. Sitting him for a year behind Cousins while he gets back to 100% and then having him come out in 2021 throwing to Diggs and Theilen is ideal.

Honestly, if both were sitting there at 25, I might go Tua over Burrows, depending on what my team doctors say about the injury.
With Tua's injury one of two things is going to be clear to everyone heading into the draft - either he can get healthy and play or he can't. If the former is true, he won't be drafted by anyone. If the prior is true he'll go top 10 most likely, but no later than 15.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by VikingLord » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:06 pm

VikeFanInEagleLand wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:14 pm
So, I guess in answer to the question....Unless we can steal him, then "No" we shouldn't trade for him. Maybe next year, or the year after that, there will be another opportunity to grab a Burrow-type QB.
One thing to note in this thread is that prior to this season most considered Burrow as a mid-round prospect. He has risen considerably this year, and while he has played well, he's also the starting QB of a loaded college team that was featured nationally. He got a lot of exposure as a result.

In terms of pure skills and NFL potential, a guy like Andrew Luck came in with far more consistently demonstrated skills and natural abilities than Burrow IMHO. Not to say Burrow sucks or is over-hyped. He's probably going to end up being a good and maybe even great NFL QB. It's just that the QB position is a very difficult one to evaluate. If it were easy and clear, the Vikings would have taken Aaron Rodgers with one of their 2 first round picks the year he came out and certainly wouldn't have passed on Russell Wilson, either. Nor would they have spent a high 1st on Christian Ponder.

Betting the farm for a rookie QB is the type of high risk gamble that desperate teams make. The Vikings aren't a desperate team. Maybe desperate to find the next great franchise QB, but in that sense they're the same as almost every other team out there.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:34 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:06 pm
VikeFanInEagleLand wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:14 pm
So, I guess in answer to the question....Unless we can steal him, then "No" we shouldn't trade for him. Maybe next year, or the year after that, there will be another opportunity to grab a Burrow-type QB.
One thing to note in this thread is that prior to this season most considered Burrow as a mid-round prospect. He has risen considerably this year, and while he has played well, he's also the starting QB of a loaded college team that was featured nationally. He got a lot of exposure as a result.

In terms of pure skills and NFL potential, a guy like Andrew Luck came in with far more consistently demonstrated skills and natural abilities than Burrow IMHO. Not to say Burrow sucks or is over-hyped. He's probably going to end up being a good and maybe even great NFL QB. It's just that the QB position is a very difficult one to evaluate. If it were easy and clear, the Vikings would have taken Aaron Rodgers with one of their 2 first round picks the year he came out and certainly wouldn't have passed on Russell Wilson, either. Nor would they have spent a high 1st on Christian Ponder.

Betting the farm for a rookie QB is the type of high risk gamble that desperate teams make. The Vikings aren't a desperate team. Maybe desperate to find the next great franchise QB, but in that sense they're the same as almost every other team out there.
Two things going for Burrow.

1. He played in a pro system at LSU. In fact, he played in the Saints' system, since Joe Brady coached for the Saints. So it's easy to evaluate his ability to thrive in a pro system, as opposed to someone playing under, say, Mike Leach.

2. He played in the SEC. So many of these guys, such as Pac 12 quarterbacks, are constantly throwing to wide-open guys in college. When they get to the pros, where the windows are microscopic, a lot of them can't succeed. At least the talent level Burrow faced is of a higher quality.

That being said, after going through the analysis of what it would take to get him, I'd be against the Vikings going after Burrow. The cost would be simply too high. We need an influx of young talent, not one guy.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by VikingLord » Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:26 pm

This might have been posted already, but I thought I'd mention it again just to highlight the point that prior to this year Burrow really hadn't shown enough to be a "can't miss" prospect, much less a clear #1 overall QB. This is from the QB prospect analysis at Walterfootball - http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2020QB.php
In speaking to a few directors of college scouting for NFL teams, they felt that Burrow has looked good but has some limitations in arm strength for the next level. They based that off of watching Burrow in person this year in games and practice. They thought that he is an efficient game manager with prototypical size, but his arm talent is not elite. Because of the skill-set limitations, they see him as a prospect similar to Andy Dalton or Derek Carr. Some said they even had graded Burrow as a fourth-rounder at the beginning of this season, but with his incredible 2019, he has skyrocketed. Burrow has benefited greatly from a revamped scheme that has been superb for LSU. He also has a very good offensive line, a strong running game, and some dynamic early-round receiver prospects. Everything has gone right for Burrow and LSU in 2019.

8/15/19: Burrow flashed at times for LSU in 2018, showing some size and running ability. The Ohio State transfer completed 58 percent of his passes last season for 2,894 yards with 16 touchdowns and five interceptions. He ran for 399 yards and seven scores. Burrow needs to become more accurate and improve his pocket passing in 2019.
Just to make it clear - I am not predicting Burrow is going to be a bust or even that he's not worthy of the #1 overall selection. In all likelihood, he is. But what I am saying is, even if a team is desperate for an answer at QB, there isn't one in the 2020 draft, including Joe Burrow, worth trading the farm to get. In fact, I think Burrow compares more to Kirk Cousins in terms of his pro ceiling than someone like Patrick Mahomes or Lamar Jackson. If the standard is a guy who can faithfully and competently execute a system when all the parts around him (running game and defense) are working as designed, well, the Vikes already have that guy in Cousins and might as well just extend him. If the standard is a guy who can compensate for failures in those other aspects, well, I don't think that QB is in this year's draft, or if he is, it's not obvious yet. I also don't think it's any of the consensus top players at this point.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by fiestavike » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:28 pm

Fat Stupid Loser wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:34 pm
fiestavike wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:12 pm
If 3 firsts would get us up to the top of the draft to get our QB, I'm in.
Worked out great for the Skins. All drafts are crap shoots. Really easy to miss on the sure thing prospects. Giving up that much for an unproven player is always a mistake. I wouldn't do it.
We could spend another season with Kirk, let him go, take compensatory picks, hope we can draft a decent QB. I'm okay with the risk of multiple 1st round picks if they think they can get a shot at a potentially great QB. I'm tired of this team flopping along and getting nowhere. Go big or go home.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by Mothman » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:29 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:28 am
If there was ever a draft where successful drafting and a little luck were critical, especially in the first 3 rounds, this upcoming one is it for the Vikings.
It feels like we've said that at least 3 years in a row. :)
This is a deep CB class. Spielman has a good shot of landing a starter in the 2nd. I think he can address the interior of the OL or DL in the 1st and 3rd. And I think he could find a gem at QB in the 4th or even 5th, especially given said QB would get a full year of no-pressure development behind Cousins.
I'd love it if I worked out way but gems at QB rarely emerge out of the 4th or 5th round. We all know it's happened and it's certainly worth drafting a QB in those rounds (I've always been an advocate of drafting QBs if a team believes they have real potential at the next level) but I hope the Vikings won't adopt that as their primary strategy for the post-Cousins era (and I hope they approach the offseason as if that era could arrive soon... because it could).
Yeah, the lure of the home run swing is always there, but Spielman needs to string together several base hits to keep this team in the mix next year and then position it for several more years. That's how he's going to win given what he's building off of from this season
The strategy you described might be how he can personally win and remain GM but I think the Vikings need to position themselves to become an elite team, not just a team in the playoff mix that inevitably gets eliminated. In other words, although expending the capital to trade all the way up to the top 3 or so in the draft (not sure if Burrow is projected at #1 or not) is probably unlikely and perhaps unwise, I would rather see the team worry less about being in the mix and see them worry more about reaching the top. I'd be absolutely fine with a strategy that temporarily took them a few steps back to move even further forward. Filling holes to keep achieving wildcard appearances and playoff elimination is better than being a losing team every year but it's also a unique sort of football purgatory.

In short: if ever a team needed a home run at QB, it's the Vikings. I have no idea if Burrow would be that guy so I'm not advocating for him. I'm just pointing out (again, sorry) that the current approach hasn't worked. I'm speculating but i wonder if part of that problem might actually be that the strategy is to "stay in the mix", as you said. It sometimes seems like the Vikings philosophy is to make the postseason, "where anything can happen". That's understandable but unfortunately, we always find out the Vikings are built to reach it, not get all the way through it.

To touch on what Pondering and Kapp were discussing: I don't know if the team needs to rebuild, reload or regroup. Those terms mean different things to different people. However, they clearly need to level-up. That's going to take more game-changing players, including at QB. It might take more than that.

PS.) I seized on "in the mix" to make my point, not to nitpick. I realize you may not have meant it quite the way I used it.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:45 pm

Somewhat related to Joe Burrow ...

Did you guys see what that idiot OBJ did after the LSU win over Clemson? According to multiple sources, including ESPN, he was on the field HANDING OUT CASH to some of the LSU players.

I mean, how stupid can a guy be? If this is true, it's a clear NCAA violation, made potentially in front of millions of people. Not surprisingly, LSU school officials are saying the money was fake, but that's not the story Burrow told on Barstool Sports' Pardon My Take podcast, when he said, "I'm not a student-athlete anymore, so I can say yeah," The only saving grace for LSU is that it'll be nearly impossible to prove the money is real.

Unbelievable.

On another note, apparently Joe Burrow has been partying non-stop since winning the title, claiming he's "only slept for about 45 minutes."

Yep. Just the guy I'd want to draft.
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