Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

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4mnvikings82
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by 4mnvikings82 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:26 am

RandyMoss84 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:06 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:51 pm
There is one current player who has first-round value and then some.

Stefon Diggs.

Diggs was involved in trade rumors with a couple of different teams, and he's been rumored to be worth at least a first and another lower-round pick. Obviously he's not enough by himself to garner the No. 1 pick, but package him with our pick at 25 and our second rounder at 57, and you're getting in the ballpark.

Here's why. Let's say Diggs is worth a mid-first-round pick and a mid-second. Rumors were that the Jets were considering such an offer back in October, when Diggs was ripping on Cousins and seemed unhappy. That's about 1,420 points on Jimmy Johnson's famous draft value chart. The 25 is worth 720 and the 57 is worth 330. Add it up, and that puts you at more than 2,500 points.

The No. 1 overall pick is worth 3,000. So packaging Diggs with the 25 and the 57 isn't that far off. Whether Cincinnati would bite on such a deal is certainly up for debate, but if the Vikings are truly exploring all options, it's something to consider.

How much do they want Joe Burrow? I doubt we'll find out.
Trading Diggs would be idiotic, if Vikings trade Diggs, Vikings would only have 1 good receiver on the roster and Vikings do not have a good reliable 3rd receiver, of course, Vikings could draft to replace Diggs and a 3rd receiver but they would be a crapshoot, do you want to be stuck with just Theilen and 2 unknowns next year?
[/quote


At least we would have an QB who could get them the ball
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by RandyMoss84 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:34 am

4mnvikings82 wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:26 am
RandyMoss84 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:06 pm


Trading Diggs would be idiotic, if Vikings trade Diggs, Vikings would only have 1 good receiver on the roster and Vikings do not have a good reliable 3rd receiver, of course, Vikings could draft to replace Diggs and a 3rd receiver but they would be a crapshoot, do you want to be stuck with just Theilen and 2 unknowns next year?
[/quote


At least we would have an QB who could get them the ball
Not if the offensive line plays like crap
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:42 am

RandyMoss84 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:06 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:51 pm
There is one current player who has first-round value and then some.

Stefon Diggs.

Diggs was involved in trade rumors with a couple of different teams, and he's been rumored to be worth at least a first and another lower-round pick. Obviously he's not enough by himself to garner the No. 1 pick, but package him with our pick at 25 and our second rounder at 57, and you're getting in the ballpark.

Here's why. Let's say Diggs is worth a mid-first-round pick and a mid-second. Rumors were that the Jets were considering such an offer back in October, when Diggs was ripping on Cousins and seemed unhappy. That's about 1,420 points on Jimmy Johnson's famous draft value chart. The 25 is worth 720 and the 57 is worth 330. Add it up, and that puts you at more than 2,500 points.

The No. 1 overall pick is worth 3,000. So packaging Diggs with the 25 and the 57 isn't that far off. Whether Cincinnati would bite on such a deal is certainly up for debate, but if the Vikings are truly exploring all options, it's something to consider.

How much do they want Joe Burrow? I doubt we'll find out.
Trading Diggs would be idiotic, if Vikings trade Diggs, Vikings would only have 1 good receiver on the roster and Vikings do not have a good reliable 3rd receiver, of course, Vikings could draft to replace Diggs and a 3rd receiver but they would be a crapshoot, do you want to be stuck with just Theilen and 2 unknowns next year?
I never said I was in favor of such an idea. I was just showing that it’s possible, which you said it was not.

Don’t worry. It won’t happen.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:31 am

Assuming he waved his no trade clause, we should be able to trade Kirk Cousins for the #1 overall pick and our 1st. A top 10 QB should be worth that and then some.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:32 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:42 am
RandyMoss84 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:06 pm


Trading Diggs would be idiotic, if Vikings trade Diggs, Vikings would only have 1 good receiver on the roster and Vikings do not have a good reliable 3rd receiver, of course, Vikings could draft to replace Diggs and a 3rd receiver but they would be a crapshoot, do you want to be stuck with just Theilen and 2 unknowns next year?
I never said I was in favor of such an idea. I was just showing that it’s possible, which you said it was not.

Don’t worry. It won’t happen.
There has actually been quite a bit of chatter around trading Diggs. A colossal mistake to break up this WR duo, but we did trade Moss in his prime, so anything can happen.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by RandyMoss84 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:39 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:42 am
RandyMoss84 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:06 pm


Trading Diggs would be idiotic, if Vikings trade Diggs, Vikings would only have 1 good receiver on the roster and Vikings do not have a good reliable 3rd receiver, of course, Vikings could draft to replace Diggs and a 3rd receiver but they would be a crapshoot, do you want to be stuck with just Theilen and 2 unknowns next year?
I never said I was in favor of such an idea. I was just showing that it’s possible, which you said it was not.

Don’t worry. It won’t happen.
Ohh got it, sorry!
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by RandyMoss84 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:40 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:31 am
Assuming he waved his no trade clause, we should be able to trade Kirk Cousins for the #1 overall pick and our 1st. A top 10 QB should be worth that and then some.
No Vikings can not due to Kirk’s age and his failure to win big games, Vikings would get a 2nd round pick
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:40 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:31 am
Assuming he waved his no trade clause, we should be able to trade Kirk Cousins for the #1 overall pick and our 1st. A top 10 QB should be worth that and then some.
We aren’t trading cousins.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:09 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:31 am
Assuming he waved his no trade clause, we should be able to trade Kirk Cousins for the #1 overall pick and our 1st. A top 10 QB should be worth that and then some.
I doubt Kirk would waive his no-trade clause to go to Cincinnati. I don't imagine ANYBODY would waive a no-trade clause to go to Cincinnati.

Also, in Cincinnati's mind, they'd be getting Andy Dalton 2.0 (maybe 2.1, now that Kirk has now actually won a playoff game).
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:20 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:32 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:42 am

I never said I was in favor of such an idea. I was just showing that it’s possible, which you said it was not.

Don’t worry. It won’t happen.
There has actually been quite a bit of chatter around trading Diggs. A colossal mistake to break up this WR duo, but we did trade Moss in his prime, so anything can happen.
The thing about Diggs is that he's one of maybe two Vikings that teams would overpay for, the other being Danielle Hunter. A team like Oakland might even grossly overpay for Diggs.

What if we actually could get a first- and second-rounder for Diggs? Doubt we could get all the way up to Burrow, but we'd have two No. 1s. Or if the trade partner were Oakland or higher, we could trade up into the top 5. Diggs could then be replaced with, say, A.J. Green, who would probably relish the opportunity to play for a playoff team. Yeah, I know Green just missed the entire season, but don't you wonder how motivated he was to come back, given how bad Cincy was?

Anyway, just spitballing. I think it would probably be a big mistake to trade Diggs, too. But the thought of having two first-rounders, given our needs at corner and the interior O-line, does sound attractive.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by VikingLord » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:28 am

There is no way the Vikings are moving up to #1 for Burrow.

But even if they could, they shouldn't IMHO.

The team needs to replace Elflein badly. He's a major liability.

The team needs to find an impact DT to replace what they will lose when Joseph isn't brought back.

The team needs to find a CB with starting potential.

You trade away draft capital for a single guy, even if that guy is a QB, those other holes go unfilled. Can a young QB possibly compensate for those gaps, especially looking at teams that are already more complete?

If there was ever a draft where successful drafting and a little luck were critical, especially in the first 3 rounds, this upcoming one is it for the Vikings. This is a deep CB class. Spielman has a good shot of landing a starter in the 2nd. I think he can address the interior of the OL or DL in the 1st and 3rd. And I think he could find a gem at QB in the 4th or even 5th, especially given said QB would get a full year of no-pressure development behind Cousins.

Yeah, the lure of the home run swing is always there, but Spielman needs to string together several base hits to keep this team in the mix next year and then position it for several more years. That's how he's going to win given what he's building off of from this season.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:34 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:20 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:32 am


There has actually been quite a bit of chatter around trading Diggs. A colossal mistake to break up this WR duo, but we did trade Moss in his prime, so anything can happen.
The thing about Diggs is that he's one of maybe two Vikings that teams would overpay for, the other being Danielle Hunter. A team like Oakland might even grossly overpay for Diggs.

What if we actually could get a first- and second-rounder for Diggs? Doubt we could get all the way up to Burrow, but we'd have two No. 1s. Or if the trade partner were Oakland or higher, we could trade up into the top 5. Diggs could then be replaced with, say, A.J. Green, who would probably relish the opportunity to play for a playoff team. Yeah, I know Green just missed the entire season, but don't you wonder how motivated he was to come back, given how bad Cincy was?

Anyway, just spitballing. I think it would probably be a big mistake to trade Diggs, too. But the thought of having two first-rounders, given our needs at corner and the interior O-line, does sound attractive.
I get what you're saying but by trading Diggs, it's now opening another need at WR. I see you said AJ Green but Thielen is going to be 30 and Green will be 32 by that point. We would just have to end up passing on either CB or OL in the 1st and draft a WR. Because the chances of either of those 2 holding up the entire season is slim to none. Granted Diggs has had his share of injuries but they are mostly a game or two here and there. Not half the season or more. I would say if those two were our WRs next year and given Thielen is aging (I know he's usually fairly healthy), I would not be surprised if Bisi Johnson or anyone else we bring in would be our #1 WR for AT LEAST a game or two.

This Vikings team is much different than let's say the 2010 team when we went into rebuild. When you head into a rebuild you have next to nothing left and a bare bones roster for the most part. Not counting cut candidates we still have Cook, Thielen, Diggs, Rudy/Irv, Oneill, Bradbury, Hunter, Kendricks, Barr, Smith, Harris (hopefully), Mac (hopefully) and Hughes. This team is miles away from any kind of rebuild so why trade stud players when you dont have to? It would be like we're forcing a rebuild when we dont really need to or should
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by mansquatch » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:44 am

It would take a kings ransom to move up from 25 to get Burrow. Given the bust rates of QBs... you run a major risk that you end up feeling like the Chicago GM vs the KC/HOU GMs. The guy at 25 or even on day 2 could be the best QB in the draft. It happens. Rogers dropped on his draft day. Wilson was a 3rd rounder. Brady's draft position is infamous. Our current starter wasn't a day 1 guy either.

I think the big take is the Vikings should be thinking about QB if the option presents itself. I doubt the guy will be Burrow.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:22 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:34 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:20 am

The thing about Diggs is that he's one of maybe two Vikings that teams would overpay for, the other being Danielle Hunter. A team like Oakland might even grossly overpay for Diggs.

What if we actually could get a first- and second-rounder for Diggs? Doubt we could get all the way up to Burrow, but we'd have two No. 1s. Or if the trade partner were Oakland or higher, we could trade up into the top 5. Diggs could then be replaced with, say, A.J. Green, who would probably relish the opportunity to play for a playoff team. Yeah, I know Green just missed the entire season, but don't you wonder how motivated he was to come back, given how bad Cincy was?

Anyway, just spitballing. I think it would probably be a big mistake to trade Diggs, too. But the thought of having two first-rounders, given our needs at corner and the interior O-line, does sound attractive.
I get what you're saying but by trading Diggs, it's now opening another need at WR. I see you said AJ Green but Thielen is going to be 30 and Green will be 32 by that point. We would just have to end up passing on either CB or OL in the 1st and draft a WR. Because the chances of either of those 2 holding up the entire season is slim to none. Granted Diggs has had his share of injuries but they are mostly a game or two here and there. Not half the season or more. I would say if those two were our WRs next year and given Thielen is aging (I know he's usually fairly healthy), I would not be surprised if Bisi Johnson or anyone else we bring in would be our #1 WR for AT LEAST a game or two.

This Vikings team is much different than let's say the 2010 team when we went into rebuild. When you head into a rebuild you have next to nothing left and a bare bones roster for the most part. Not counting cut candidates we still have Cook, Thielen, Diggs, Rudy/Irv, Oneill, Bradbury, Hunter, Kendricks, Barr, Smith, Harris (hopefully), Mac (hopefully) and Hughes. This team is miles away from any kind of rebuild so why trade stud players when you dont have to? It would be like we're forcing a rebuild when we dont really need to or should
Again, I'm just spitballing.

But I have to disagree a little on the rebuild. We're not as bad off as we were in 2010, or especially 2013, but if we're being honest, we're more than a player or two from being a Super Bowl contender. Athletic defenses destroyed us in 2019. Our defense, especially in the defensive backfield, held on for dear life, and they're not getting younger. Right now, this team is no more a SB contender next year than they were this year, and probably less so, unless we get a serious infusion of talent. Two firsts and two seconds would go a long way toward that.

Think for a moment about Diggs' value relative to what he cost us. Talk about buying low and selling high. In this pass-crazy league, teams are willing to give up a king's ransom for fast, talented, experienced wideouts. Given how desperate Oakland was to get their hands on Antonio Brown, and given the draft capital they received in the Khalil Mack trade, I have to believe they'd be interested in Diggs. And in October, there was talk that the Jets would give up a minimum of a first and a second for Diggs -- given their record at the time, those picks would have been high in each round. How do you not at least consider an offer like that?

As for your take on drafting a WR ... if you sign somebody like A.J. Green, a Diggs trade wouldn't necessitate the use of a high pick on a WR this year. In the future, maybe. But if we're looking at the 2020 team as a non-rebuild, then we have to be thinking 2020. A healthy A.J. Green is every bit the receiver Stefon Diggs is in 2020. He also wouldn't have the learning curve of a rookie.

Again, I'm not advocating a Diggs trade. But I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if teams call about him. And because he's one of those guys that teams might be willing to overpay for, I think the Vikings would consider it if the price was right.
Last edited by J. Kapp 11 on Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should the Vikings Trade for Joe Burrow?

Post by Dames » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:22 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:32 am
There has actually been quite a bit of chatter around trading Diggs. A colossal mistake to break up this WR duo, but we did trade Moss in his prime, so anything can happen.
I'm a huge Diggs fan, but honestly I think a lot of us overvalue him. As good as he is, he's not able to take over a game and carry the team. He is no Moss. That trade pissed me off. I would hate to trade Diggs too, but not anywhere near the same level. While it wouldn't be likely possible to replace him, if we have the choice between Diggs vs an instantly better Oline, or Diggs vs franchise QB, I think the choice is pretty easy one.

That said, the chances that either one works out is far from a guarantee, so I guess nothing would happen. That's probably the right choice.

Regarding the trade rumors, I believe there is truth in there. I don't know that Diggs requested a trade, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did. If he did, this coming year could get ugly if we keep him and things don't go right. I believe he just wants to win and he's not just being a diva, but honestly there is a reason these rumors get started, and it's not all a media creation.
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