Edwards out as Defensive Coordinator

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7398
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY
x 360

Re: Edwards out as Defensive Coordinator

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:17 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:20 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:55 pm


yeah they are going to put a 31 million dollar QB that played pretty darn well this year on the bench....for Teddy Bridgewater no less :confused:
Ya!
No?
0 x
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri

User avatar
S197
Fenrir
Posts: 11952
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Hawaii
x 266

Re: Edwards out as Defensive Coordinator

Post by S197 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:34 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:34 am
S197 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:22 am
I’ll throw a name out there... Hue Jackson. Once you’re done laughing, hear me out. Zimmer loves ex-HCs and he checks that box. They know each other from Cincinnati. And Hue has actually put together some solid offenses. He’s been successful at both running the ball and calling a bit more vertical passing game, which we badly need. He was a terrible HC but I think he’s one of those guys that’s better as a coordinator.

Maybe with Kubiak they can keep running the stretch zone but implement more routes downfield.
We were one of the best vertical passing offenses this year...

And that’s the only way I’d be ok with a non-kubiak OC is if whoever comes in is willing to use the same scheme and bounce ideas off each other. If Hue or whoever wants to come in and run it their own way I want no part of that. This is the best scheme for cousins with the play action and such. I think the way you see improvement is another year under this offense. Not a new offense
I’d like to see the data behind that stat. I know there’s a stat floating around that we had the highest percentage or whatever but how does that translate into attempts? It sure didn’t seem like there were many shots taken downfield. Anecdotally, the SF game, other than Diggs was there another throw downfield all game?

I’m pretty sure between Hue and Kubiak they could come to some compromise on a system.
0 x

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7398
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY
x 360

Re: Edwards out as Defensive Coordinator

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:40 am

RandyMoss84 wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:41 am
CharVike wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:40 am

How about a DT that can hold the point? Joseph is done. He gets pushed around. We need an anchor. How about another pass rusher for the inside. Another Millard type. Bring big time heat and the CB don't matter that much.
Honestly offensive line and cornerback is a bigger need than defensive tackle but draft a defensive tackle in 3rd round?
I disagree. We have ZERO pass rushing DTs. If we lose Griffen on top of it, our "pass rushers" are Hunter and Odenigbo across the entire DL. That's not good, at all.

Look at SF's DL. Its a HUGE reason they are still playing and a huge reason they beat us. Buckner, Bosa, Armstead and Dee Ford. Out of the 4 of them, Ford had the least with 6.5 sacks but only played in 11 games. Outside of Hunter, Griff and Odenigbo, our next best pass rusher was Jaleel Johnson (sack wise), who is not a good pass rusher at all. And if Griffen is gone, our cupboard is quickly becoming empty.

IMO, a legit 3 technique pass rusher or defensive end is our #1 priority
0 x
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri

User avatar
fiestavike
Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 4069
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:03 am
x 126

Re: Edwards out as Defensive Coordinator

Post by fiestavike » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:42 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:40 am
RandyMoss84 wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:41 am


Honestly offensive line and cornerback is a bigger need than defensive tackle but draft a defensive tackle in 3rd round?
I disagree. We have ZERO pass rushing DTs. If we lose Griffen on top of it, our "pass rushers" are Hunter and Odenigbo across the entire DL. That's not good, at all.

Look at SF's DL. Its a HUGE reason they are still playing and a huge reason they beat us. Buckner, Bosa, Armstead and Dee Ford. Out of the 4 of them, Ford had the least with 6.5 sacks but only played in 11 games. Outside of Hunter, Griff and Odenigbo, our next best pass rusher was Jaleel Johnson (sack wise), who is not a good pass rusher at all. And if Griffen is gone, our cupboard is quickly becoming empty.

IMO, a legit 3 technique pass rusher or defensive end is our #1 priority
It's hard to gauge given the way they are coached. Maybe the Vikings D need to be a more risk taking and aggressive unit.
0 x

User avatar
Dames
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 865
Joined: Thu May 15, 2003 10:38 am
Location: Saint Michael, MN
x 110

Re: Edwards out as Defensive Coordinator

Post by Dames » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:47 am

S197 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:34 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:34 am


We were one of the best vertical passing offenses this year...

And that’s the only way I’d be ok with a non-kubiak OC is if whoever comes in is willing to use the same scheme and bounce ideas off each other. If Hue or whoever wants to come in and run it their own way I want no part of that. This is the best scheme for cousins with the play action and such. I think the way you see improvement is another year under this offense. Not a new offense
I’d like to see the data behind that stat. I know there’s a stat floating around that we had the highest percentage or whatever but how does that translate into attempts? It sure didn’t seem like there were many shots taken downfield. Anecdotally, the SF game, other than Diggs was there another throw downfield all game?

I’m pretty sure between Hue and Kubiak they could come to some compromise on a system.
I don't have those specific passing stats currently, but I have read the same thing multiple times throughout the year. If you recall back to the games we've won, we weren't typically a grind it out type offense. They made big splashes, mostly with play action. Diggs had 8 catches over 40 yards this year. That's tied for 1st in the league. 20 of his 63 catches went for over 20 yds. The players with more catches of 20+ almost all have 20 more catches than Diggs. So, the % is quite high. We just passed a lot less this year than the previous year. Kirk had about 120 less throws this year than in 2018. (307 to 425) That's a huge drop off.

It's easy to forget how good of an offense we had when we played so poorly in some big games, but our offense was really good for the most part.
2 x
Damian

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7398
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY
x 360

Re: Edwards out as Defensive Coordinator

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:09 am

S197 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:34 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:34 am


We were one of the best vertical passing offenses this year...

And that’s the only way I’d be ok with a non-kubiak OC is if whoever comes in is willing to use the same scheme and bounce ideas off each other. If Hue or whoever wants to come in and run it their own way I want no part of that. This is the best scheme for cousins with the play action and such. I think the way you see improvement is another year under this offense. Not a new offense
I’d like to see the data behind that stat. I know there’s a stat floating around that we had the highest percentage or whatever but how does that translate into attempts? It sure didn’t seem like there were many shots taken downfield. Anecdotally, the SF game, other than Diggs was there another throw downfield all game?

I’m pretty sure between Hue and Kubiak they could come to some compromise on a system.
Well yeah you can look at specific games and say there werent many shots downfield (SF, Chi, etc.). But when you look at the season as a whole, yeah we were one of the better deep passing teams in the NFL.

According to deep passing stats that I found:

Yards on deep passes: 730 yards (8th)
TDs: 10 (4th)
INTs: 1 (3rd)
Completions: 21 (8th)
Comp %: 38.9 (8th)
Overall score/rank: 74 (3rd)
Passer rating: (2nd)
Under pressure: (1st)
Clean pocket: (3rd)
Longest completed air distance: (1st)

So yeah in most categories we are top 10, and even top 5.
0 x
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri

4mnvikings82
Practice Squad
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:36 pm
x 6

Re: Edwards out as Defensive Coordinator

Post by 4mnvikings82 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:54 pm

I'm just curious oh, did we hire a defensive and offensive coordinator and I missed it? Usually the sports channels AR all over who the possibilities could be but I don't hear anyting an ESPN or NFL Network about possibilities. Or is it just that nobody's interested in the Vikings anymore?
0 x

User avatar
Dames
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 865
Joined: Thu May 15, 2003 10:38 am
Location: Saint Michael, MN
x 110

Re: Edwards out as Defensive Coordinator

Post by Dames » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:56 am

4mnvikings82 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:54 pm
I'm just curious oh, did we hire a defensive and offensive coordinator and I missed it? Usually the sports channels AR all over who the possibilities could be but I don't hear anyting an ESPN or NFL Network about possibilities. Or is it just that nobody's interested in the Vikings anymore?
There have been no hires, and very little chatter about anyone. Best guess is that points to 1 of 2 things:

1. They plan to hire one the Kubiaks to OC, and Zimmer Jr to DC. Sr is the real DC anyway, so it probably doesn't matter a lot on defense. Kubiak makes the most sense on O too sense they stated they didn't want to change the system.

2. They are working on extensions for Zimmer and Spielman, who are on the last year of their contracts. If so, it makes sense to wait to hire coordinators probably.

Given the choice, I would go with option 1.
0 x
Damian

User avatar
Mothman
Defensive Tackle
Posts: 38078
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Location: Chicago, IL
x 272

Re: Edwards out as Defensive Coordinator

Post by Mothman » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:11 am

Dames wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:56 am
4mnvikings82 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:54 pm
I'm just curious oh, did we hire a defensive and offensive coordinator and I missed it? Usually the sports channels AR all over who the possibilities could be but I don't hear anyting an ESPN or NFL Network about possibilities. Or is it just that nobody's interested in the Vikings anymore?
There have been no hires, and very little chatter about anyone. Best guess is that points to 1 of 2 things:

1. They plan to hire one the Kubiaks to OC, and Zimmer Jr to DC. Sr is the real DC anyway, so it probably doesn't matter a lot on defense. Kubiak makes the most sense on O too sense they stated they didn't want to change the system.

2. They are working on extensions for Zimmer and Spielman, who are on the last year of their contracts. If so, it makes sense to wait to hire coordinators probably.

Given the choice, I would go with option 1.
I suspect option 1 is the correct answer.

A third possibility is they are interested in hiring someone from outside the organization for one or both positions and it's proving difficult because Zimmer and Spielman are both in the final year of their contracts. I think that's less likely than the other two options right now.

Maybe they've already offered the OC job to Gary Kubiak and he asked for a little time to to think it over?
0 x

User avatar
Dames
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 865
Joined: Thu May 15, 2003 10:38 am
Location: Saint Michael, MN
x 110

Re: Edwards out as Defensive Coordinator

Post by Dames » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:24 am

Mothman wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:11 am
A third possibility is they are interested in hiring someone from outside the organization for one or both positions and it's proving difficult because Zimmer and Spielman are both in the final year of their contracts. I think that's less likely than the other two options right now.
That's possible, although I agree it's probably the least likely.
Mothman wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:11 am
Maybe they've already offered the OC job to Gary Kubiak and he asked for a little time to to think it over?
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that, although if he needs time to think about it, it does make you wonder if it's the right hire. Could be a variety of reasons, and not all bad I suppose. Maybe the way it was presented is causing more discussions.
0 x
Damian

User avatar
Mothman
Defensive Tackle
Posts: 38078
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Location: Chicago, IL
x 272

Re: Edwards out as Defensive Coordinator

Post by Mothman » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:28 am

Dames wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:24 am
Mothman wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:11 am
A third possibility is they are interested in hiring someone from outside the organization for one or both positions and it's proving difficult because Zimmer and Spielman are both in the final year of their contracts. I think that's less likely than the other two options right now.
That's possible, although I agree it's probably the least likely.
Mothman wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:11 am
Maybe they've already offered the OC job to Gary Kubiak and he asked for a little time to to think it over?
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that, although if he needs time to think about it, it does make you wonder if it's the right hire. Could be a variety of reasons, and not all bad I suppose. Maybe the way it was presented is causing more discussions.
Heck, maybe Kubiak has already accepted the position and they're waiting until they've filled the DC position to make an announcement.

The more I think about it, the more I see different possibilities. Maybe they're eyeing an assistant from KC or SF and waiting until the season ends for those 2 teams.

Maybe Mark and Zygi Wilf will be the new OC and DC! :shock:

I assume we'll have answers soon.
0 x

User avatar
Dames
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 865
Joined: Thu May 15, 2003 10:38 am
Location: Saint Michael, MN
x 110

Re: Edwards out as Defensive Coordinator

Post by Dames » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:36 am

Mothman wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:28 am
Heck, maybe Kubiak has already accepted the position and they're waiting until they've filled the DC position to make an announcement.

The more I think about it, the more I see different possibilities. Maybe they're eyeing an assistant from KC or SF and waiting until the season ends for those 2 teams.
I've heard that rumor before actually. I'm in if it's package deal that includes Mahomes. 8)
Mothman wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:28 am
Maybe Mark and Zygi Wilf will be the new OC and DC! :shock:

I assume we'll have answers soon.
:lol: It's a lame duck year, may as well have some fun with it!
0 x
Damian

StumpHunter
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1527
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:55 am
x 173

Re: Edwards out as Defensive Coordinator

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:42 am

Not super concerned about the DC since the defensive scheme is not changing regardless of who they hire.

At OC, I think it is Kubiak or a figure head for Kubiak. If the Vikings were looking to make a wholesale change at that spot, I feel like they would have went after Shurmur since he had so much success here. Since they didn't, it will be Kubiak, whether someone else officially holds the title of OC or it is Kubiak himself.
0 x

CharVike
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:28 pm
x 198

Re: Edwards out as Defensive Coordinator

Post by CharVike » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:38 am

fiestavike wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:42 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:40 am


I disagree. We have ZERO pass rushing DTs. If we lose Griffen on top of it, our "pass rushers" are Hunter and Odenigbo across the entire DL. That's not good, at all.

Look at SF's DL. Its a HUGE reason they are still playing and a huge reason they beat us. Buckner, Bosa, Armstead and Dee Ford. Out of the 4 of them, Ford had the least with 6.5 sacks but only played in 11 games. Outside of Hunter, Griff and Odenigbo, our next best pass rusher was Jaleel Johnson (sack wise), who is not a good pass rusher at all. And if Griffen is gone, our cupboard is quickly becoming empty.

IMO, a legit 3 technique pass rusher or defensive end is our #1 priority
It's hard to gauge given the way they are coached. Maybe the Vikings D need to be a more risk taking and aggressive unit.
The bottom line a team needs pass rushers. If you bring the pressure big time no QB plays well. That's what I have seen. I also like a D that creates TOs. Win the TO battle and it increases the chance of winning. I can't figure out what a Zimmer D is all about. I don't even know what type of players he likes. IMO it's a bend and sometimes break deal. He seems to be adverse when it comes to TOs. I like a D that goes after TOs. And that starts with controlling the LOS. I guess his best D was in 2017. Without digging up every stat and blah blah blah. His D that year shut out the Packers. The only time we have done that. Look closer and who played QB for the Pack. I don't even know the guy. And then that D was beat badly by a backup QB in the champ game. That's not playing D. I liked the type of D Buddy Ryan created. He pressured the QB. QBs were scared to death. They didn't want the ball in their hands. Even two minute Tommy didn't want the ball in his hands. He released it quickly, which most feel is an important stat, but it was just to get rid of it. He didn't care were it went. Keeping it meant getting smashed and spending the night in the ER. A bar stool was more appealing. I don't blame him either. So yes we need pass rushers big time. I don't see a monster in FA this year. Certainly not in the Reggie White class. That's a game changer signing. Help won't come from the draft year one either. So I don't know how to solve it. Nothing to spend the CAP on.
0 x

CharVike
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:28 pm
x 198

Re: Edwards out as Defensive Coordinator

Post by CharVike » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:35 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:42 am
Not super concerned about the DC since the defensive scheme is not changing regardless of who they hire.

At OC, I think it is Kubiak or a figure head for Kubiak. If the Vikings were looking to make a wholesale change at that spot, I feel like they would have went after Shurmur since he had so much success here. Since they didn't, it will be Kubiak, whether someone else officially holds the title of OC or it is Kubiak himself.
Did Shurmur have success here. We went to Pittsburgh and his offense didn't do anything. His QB had a 65 rating. Scored 9 points. That's a scheme problem. We scored a grand total of 7 against the Lions. That right there should get a coach canned. Either on the plane ride back or after the season. Scored 34 against the Bengals which is dam good. The scheme worked good that week or was it the lack of competition. Then in the biggest game of the year his dynamic O put up a grand total of 7. His lack of coaching effort cost us a chance of going to the Super Bowl. At least bring the fight. But it did get him a HC job. Well the Giants saw enough after just two seasons. So no I don't want that BS or scheme here again. We need to go with the scheme we have. Otherwise it will be a training season. What Kubiak needs to do is figure out what happened to our ground game. We can't run against top level competition. That's a huge problem when the scheme is based on first establishing a strong running game. Without a good ground attack his scheme won't work. And there's no fall back except attempting more screens.
0 x