Moves the Vikings should make for 2020

[makila]

Diggs is a great route runner, makes contested catches, and is a deep threat. His antics are starting to get a bit old, there's a ton of smoke, something is going on. WR depth has been such an issue for this team over the past handful of seasons, I cringe at the thought of us moving either of our #1a and #1b WRs. Cause frankly we don't have much behind them. College WRs don't just always translate to NFL WRs, many of them flame out. Really hesitant to move him at this point.

[StumpHunter]

Diggs is a great route runner, makes contested catches, and is a deep threat. His antics are starting to get a bit old, there's a ton of smoke, something is going on. WR depth has been such an issue for this team over the past handful of seasons, I cringe at the thought of us moving either of our #1a and #1b WRs. Cause frankly we don't have much behind them. College WRs don't just always translate to NFL WRs, many of them flame out. Really hesitant to move him at this point.

His antics are being over reported and conflated by the media. He is not doing anything besides be cryptic at this point. For all we know he heard a rumor the Vikings are looking to trade him and that has him upset. It is also possible he finds all this speculation over meaningless tweets hilarious.

I certainly do.

[VikingLord]

His antics are being over reported and conflated by the media. He is not doing anything besides be cryptic at this point. For all we know he heard a rumor the Vikings are looking to trade him and that has him upset. It is also possible he finds all this speculation over meaningless tweets hilarious.

I certainly do.

I agree.

What would concern me is Diggs doing something material either on or off the field that suggests he actively wants out. So far all we have are some cryptic comments that could be understood a number of different ways from completely meaningless to indicating something more and that he sat out of a few practices when he was sick, which is also completely valid. As far as his on-field performance, he was effective and gave it his all every time he had a chance to make a play from what I saw.

Like I said before, there is absolutely no reason for Spielman to trade Diggs barring an offer he can't refuse. Since I see few teams willing to make such an offer, I don't think Diggs is going anywhere.

[J. Kapp 11]

Diggs is a great route runner, makes contested catches, and is a deep threat. His antics are starting to get a bit old, there's a ton of smoke, something is going on. WR depth has been such an issue for this team over the past handful of seasons, I cringe at the thought of us moving either of our #1a and #1b WRs. Cause frankly we don't have much behind them. College WRs don't just always translate to NFL WRs, many of them flame out. Really hesitant to move him at this point.

His antics are being over reported and conflated by the media. He is not doing anything besides be cryptic at this point. For all we know he heard a rumor the Vikings are looking to trade him and that has him upset. It is also possible he finds all this speculation over meaningless tweets hilarious.

I certainly do.

And you know these reports are based only on Tweets ... how?

[StumpHunter]

His antics are being over reported and conflated by the media. He is not doing anything besides be cryptic at this point. For all we know he heard a rumor the Vikings are looking to trade him and that has him upset. It is also possible he finds all this speculation over meaningless tweets hilarious.

I certainly do.

And you know these reports are based only on Tweets ... how?

I don't think they are based only on Tweets and think most of it is based on either nothing, or agents and GMs feeding reporters what they want them to report.

The tweets are the only thing we know for a fact are more than just hearsay.

Greenway is saying that this is about Diggs being second fiddle to Theilen, but outside of how much each is being paid(something that is mostly based on when each WR signed), Greenway might be the only person I know who thinks Diggs is second fiddle. Especially after last season.

Sub 500 yard season versus a 1200 yard season.

[Pondering Her Percy]

And you know these reports are based only on Tweets ... how?

I don't think they are based only on Tweets and think most of it is based on either nothing, or agents and GMs feeding reporters what they want them to report.

The tweets are the only thing we know for a fact are more than just hearsay.

Greenway is saying that this is about Diggs being second fiddle to Theilen, but outside of how much each is being paid(something that is mostly based on when each WR signed), Greenway might be the only person I know who thinks Diggs is second fiddle. Especially after last season.

Sub 500 yard season versus a 1200 yard season.

Injury riddled season versus healthy season. Saying diggs doesn’t play second fiddle and basing that off this season is a poor example. I don’t think there is a drastic #1 and #2 but yeah, Thielen has received more of the praise and accolades than diggs has overall.

[VikingLord]

Injury riddled season versus healthy season. Saying diggs doesn’t play second fiddle and basing that off this season is a poor example. I don’t think there is a drastic #1 and #2 but yeah, Thielen has received more of the praise and accolades than diggs has overall.

Its funny because both of them have overachieved as pros if you think about it. Thielen went undrafted and Diggs was a 4th round pick. Those two are the Vikings starting WRs and their names are mentioned when the best WR duos in the league are discussed. That is pretty impressive for either of them, much less both.

This is one area where I think Spielman got incredibly lucky. When you think about when he traded up to get Cordarrelle Patterson in the 1st and took Treadwell relatively high in the 1st, and that either of those players should have been the guy most of us expected to become the star WR for the team, and then got Diggs in the 4th and Thielen for a pack of chewing gum off the street, that's what I call some good fortune. I can only imagine how much more harsh the discussion about Spielman would be right now if Diggs and Thielen hadn't developed into the players they are today given the poor results of Spielman's 1st round WRs.

[J. Kapp 11]

Injury riddled season versus healthy season. Saying diggs doesn’t play second fiddle and basing that off this season is a poor example. I don’t think there is a drastic #1 and #2 but yeah, Thielen has received more of the praise and accolades than diggs has overall.

Its funny because both of them have overachieved as pros if you think about it. Thielen went undrafted and Diggs was a 4th round pick. Those two are the Vikings starting WRs and their names are mentioned when the best WR duos in the league are discussed. That is pretty impressive for either of them, much less both.

This is one area where I think Spielman got incredibly lucky. When you think about when he traded up to get Cordarrelle Patterson in the 1st and took Treadwell relatively high in the 1st, and that either of those players should have been the guy most of us expected to become the star WR for the team, and then got Diggs in the 4th and Thielen for a pack of chewing gum off the street, that's what I call some good fortune. I can only imagine how much more harsh the discussion about Spielman would be right now if Diggs and Thielen hadn't developed into the players they are today given the poor results of Spielman's 1st round WRs.

Diggs was actually taken in the 5th round.

Sometimes I think Rick Spielman is better in the lower rounds than he is in the first or second. He's hit on some firsts (Harrison Smith, Anthony Barr, Xavier Rhodes before his decline) but he's also missed on quite a few (Patterson, Treadwell, Kalil, Ponder) with a number of so-so efforts (Waynes, Floyd, Hughes, Bridgewater).

Meanwhile, if you look at the lower rounds and the UFAs, we've hit on Diggs (5th), Thielen (UFA), Harris (UFA), Griffen (4th), Ham (UFA), Odenigbo (7th), Stephen (7th), Weatherly (7th), Kearse (7th), Bisi Johnson (7th), Wilson (UFA) ... plus others who don't contribute quite as much but are still developing, like Hill, Samia, and Udoh.

Maybe that's why Spielman likes to stockpile low-round picks so much.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Injury riddled season versus healthy season. Saying diggs doesn’t play second fiddle and basing that off this season is a poor example. I don’t think there is a drastic #1 and #2 but yeah, Thielen has received more of the praise and accolades than diggs has overall.

Its funny because both of them have overachieved as pros if you think about it. Thielen went undrafted and Diggs was a 4th round pick. Those two are the Vikings starting WRs and their names are mentioned when the best WR duos in the league are discussed. That is pretty impressive for either of them, much less both.

This is one area where I think Spielman got incredibly lucky. When you think about when he traded up to get Cordarrelle Patterson in the 1st and took Treadwell relatively high in the 1st, and that either of those players should have been the guy most of us expected to become the star WR for the team, and then got Diggs in the 4th and Thielen for a pack of chewing gum off the street, that's what I call some good fortune. I can only imagine how much more harsh the discussion about Spielman would be right now if Diggs and Thielen hadn't developed into the players they are today given the poor results of Spielman's 1st round WRs.

Yeah Diggs was a 5th rounder but I get what you're saying. However, I've said before, I feel like Spielman is pretty darn good in the later rounds, especially in the last few years. Thielen wasnt necessarily "luck". Did anyone including Spielman ever think he would be this good? No. But Spielman and his scouts looked into him heavily and kept him on the roster because they obviously so enough talent to justify it. Thielen happened to be from Minnesota but it wasnt why he got his shot with the Vikings. We actually saw him at a regional combine in Chicago. Being from Minnesota was just a bonus.

As for Diggs, another excellent find. He was a WR that would have went a lot higher if he wasnt dinged up throughout college.

With those first round WRs, I just think it's tough because there is so much pressure on first rounders. As for guys like Diggs and Thielen, there was little pressure. If they make the team, great. If they dont, who cares. With guys like Treadwell and Patterson, not only should they 100% make the team but they should make a big impact at some point and they didnt.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Its funny because both of them have overachieved as pros if you think about it. Thielen went undrafted and Diggs was a 4th round pick. Those two are the Vikings starting WRs and their names are mentioned when the best WR duos in the league are discussed. That is pretty impressive for either of them, much less both.

This is one area where I think Spielman got incredibly lucky. When you think about when he traded up to get Cordarrelle Patterson in the 1st and took Treadwell relatively high in the 1st, and that either of those players should have been the guy most of us expected to become the star WR for the team, and then got Diggs in the 4th and Thielen for a pack of chewing gum off the street, that's what I call some good fortune. I can only imagine how much more harsh the discussion about Spielman would be right now if Diggs and Thielen hadn't developed into the players they are today given the poor results of Spielman's 1st round WRs.

Diggs was actually taken in the 5th round.

Sometimes I think Rick Spielman is better in the lower rounds than he is in the first or second. He's hit on some firsts (Harrison Smith, Anthony Barr, Xavier Rhodes before his decline) but he's also missed on quite a few (Patterson, Treadwell, Kalil, Ponder) with a number of so-so efforts (Waynes, Floyd, Hughes, Bridgewater).

Meanwhile, if you look at the lower rounds and the UFAs, we've hit on Diggs (5th), Thielen (UFA), Harris (UFA), Griffen (4th), Ham (UFA), Odenigbo (7th), Stephen (7th), Weatherly (7th), Kearse (7th), Bisi Johnson (7th), Wilson (UFA) ... plus others who don't contribute quite as much but are still developing, like Hill, Samia, and Udoh.

Maybe that's why Spielman likes to stockpile low-round picks so much.

Again, this is why I like his strategy. Lets say we just have a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th round picks this year. The way Spielman has explained it before is why not take that 5th and 6th and get 5 7th round picks out of it? That's more players and more chances to find contributors. And is the talent level of a 5th round pick compared to a 7th round pick really THAT much different? No. I think it's an excellent strategy unless obviously someone legit fell to the 5th and you couldnt pass on him but that isnt often if ever.

[StumpHunter]

Its funny because both of them have overachieved as pros if you think about it. Thielen went undrafted and Diggs was a 4th round pick. Those two are the Vikings starting WRs and their names are mentioned when the best WR duos in the league are discussed. That is pretty impressive for either of them, much less both.

This is one area where I think Spielman got incredibly lucky. When you think about when he traded up to get Cordarrelle Patterson in the 1st and took Treadwell relatively high in the 1st, and that either of those players should have been the guy most of us expected to become the star WR for the team, and then got Diggs in the 4th and Thielen for a pack of chewing gum off the street, that's what I call some good fortune. I can only imagine how much more harsh the discussion about Spielman would be right now if Diggs and Thielen hadn't developed into the players they are today given the poor results of Spielman's 1st round WRs.

Diggs was actually taken in the 5th round.

Sometimes I think Rick Spielman is better in the lower rounds than he is in the first or second. He's hit on some firsts (Harrison Smith, Anthony Barr, Xavier Rhodes before his decline) but he's also missed on quite a few (Patterson, Treadwell, Kalil, Ponder) with a number of so-so efforts (Waynes, Floyd, Hughes, Bridgewater).

Meanwhile, if you look at the lower rounds and the UFAs, we've hit on Diggs (5th), Thielen (UFA), Harris (UFA), Griffen (4th), Ham (UFA), Odenigbo (7th), Stephen (7th), Weatherly (7th), Kearse (7th), Bisi Johnson (7th), Wilson (UFA) ... plus others who don't contribute quite as much but are still developing, like Hill, Samia, and Udoh.

Maybe that's why Spielman likes to stockpile low-round picks so much.

Of the ones he has drafted there, Griffen and Diggs are great starters. The rest of those are depth at best, which is as good as you can hope most of the time in the lower rounds.

Gotta hit on the 1st and 2nd rounders to achieve greatness as most of the great players don't last until the 6th or 7th.

Honestly, you look at the UDFA's in your list, and wonder why we even bother with the 7th rounders. Trade up, get the guy you want and find your depth in the UDFAs.

[VikingLord]

With those first round WRs, I just think it's tough because there is so much pressure on first rounders. As for guys like Diggs and Thielen, there was little pressure. If they make the team, great. If they dont, who cares. With guys like Treadwell and Patterson, not only should they 100% make the team but they should make a big impact at some point and they didnt.

I have another theory on that.

1st round WRs tend to be divas. Not all of them, but a lot of them do, and divas don't tend to be great teammates or very coachable in the pros. Not sure if Patterson was a diva per se. What I read about him suggested he was more a difficult player to coach than anything, but he seemed like a challenge nonetheless.

Lower round WRs, OTOH, have a lot to prove, and beyond being coachable and working hard, they almost necessarily are more humble and likely better teammates than their more heralded 1st round counterparts, at least coming out.

It's important to note this is a sliding scale. I think about Randy Moss, one of the most talented WRs to ever come out, if not the most talented. He was drafted in the 1st round (#21 overall IIRC), but in his case that probably felt like getting drafted in the 5th because he probably should have gone #1 overall, but no later than #5. That put a huge chip on his shoulder and I think it honestly turned out better for him than it would have had he gone in the top 5 the year he came out.

[fiestavike]

The vikings aren't going to have any dramatic additions this year. Hopefully they get an impact rookie or two, but likely they are drafting for one and two years from now. If this team gets better, its going to be because some young guys and backups manage to make the leap, and the offensive continuity increases offensive production. That's really it. No other path forward, and I hope they don't draft anybody expecting them to come in and contribute right away. That would be a pleasant surprise, but not likely to happen and it would be a terrible plan to expect and rely upon it.

[cmoss84]

Going to throw a strange idea out there. I know this is never going to happen. Just for conversation purposes.

Remember the immediate impact Favre had for us? And how it seemed gross right away but worked out very well?
What if:
1) We trade Cousins to the Chargers. They get to test drive Cousins and see if they want to extend him as a long term solution. Let's just say we get a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him.
2) We sign Brady to a 1 year deal.
3) We draft multiple OL and a QB project (ala Jimmy GQ) in the first 4 rounds.
4) Sign a solid OL in FA.

I know many of you will say Cousins is finally familiar with our system, why trade him now. But with Brady, I don't think it would take long to get acclimated.

Would it be gross to win a SB with Brady? A win is a win. Thought it would be gross with Farve too, but they worked out okay. Thoughts?

[VikingLord]

Going to throw a strange idea out there. I know this is never going to happen. Just for conversation purposes.

Remember the immediate impact Favre had for us? And how it seemed gross right away but worked out very well?
What if:
1) We trade Cousins to the Chargers. They get to test drive Cousins and see if they want to extend him as a long term solution. Let's just say we get a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him.
2) We sign Brady to a 1 year deal.
3) We draft multiple OL and a QB project (ala Jimmy GQ) in the first 4 rounds.
4) Sign a solid OL in FA.

I know many of you will say Cousins is finally familiar with our system, why trade him now. But with Brady, I don't think it would take long to get acclimated.

Would it be gross to win a SB with Brady? A win is a win. Thought it would be gross with Farve too, but they worked out okay. Thoughts?

I don't think Brady can win a Superbowl at this point in his career. Favre was a different beast IMHO. He was already intimately familiar with the NFC North and came in with a huge chip on his shoulder vis-a-vis the Packers, plus the team he joined was so stacked it won in spite of the head coach more than because of him.

Brady is far less physically gifted than Favre, which is magnified by his age. Brady in theory could make the team better offensively, but he also might well make it worse. While I'm not a huge Cousins fan, he can legitimately threaten deep. I'm not sure Brady can do that anymore. Plus, this Vikings team is not as talented overall as the one Favre joined in 2009 IMHO.

But even beyond those fit and feel issues, I think Cousins' has a no-trade clause in his contract with the Vikings. While he might agree to a trade, I don't think the Vikings can count on that, nor could they count on finding a trade partner willing to take on the final year of his contract. It's possible, but I don't get a good feeling on that. They might luck into a team needing to make a deal due to some unforseen circumstances, but barring that I don't see Cousins going anywhere this year and I wouldn't even be surprised if Spielman extended him in an effort to free up some cap space.