Moves the Vikings should make for 2020

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CharVike
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Re: Moves the Vikings should make for 2020

Post by CharVike » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:17 pm

Laserman wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:09 am
we can make all the moves at def , wr, ect but if we don't get a dominate Oline and Dline we are not going anywhere. The game is won in the trenches and Our GM just doesn't get it. He gets excited about Wr, QB and Def slots and has basically ignored the Oline for years and gave us a courtesy upgrade which basically changed a few names but didn't add any real talent.
How do you make those two areas dominate. I think you are correct. On D if you have a tremendous pass rush the secondary doesn't need the best players. Even the best become avg with no pass rush. The question is how is the upgrade done?
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Re: Moves the Vikings should make for 2020

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:52 pm

CharVike wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:03 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:50 am

It stinks that we're in such Cap Purgatory because Minnesota ought to be an attractive place for free agents. We've got stable ownership that lets the football people do football things, and Mike Zimmer, despite some of our protestations, is a coach that players love to play for. Not only that, we've got some of the best facilities on the planet.

Scherff would have extra incentive. He's from Denison, Iowa, so he'd be close to home. And he'd (potentially) be playing with fellow Hawkeye Riley Reiff. Of course, to clear salary for Scherff, we might have to cut Reiff.

Add in the fact that we've been a playoff team for 3 of the past 5 seasons, and you'd think either player would be attracted to the situation in general.

Except ... we're over the cap. Ugh.

EDITORIAL COMMENT: I know some of you are going to laugh at some of the advantages I've stated. What can I say? I'm a marketer. It's my job to sell ice cubes to Eskimos, if necessary. Spinning is what I do.
Here's the true spin. I read since 1990 us and the Lions are the only two NFC teams that haven't been to a Super Bowl. If I'm a free agent I would say your team is the other Lions. Your both losers. Plus it's like minus whatever degree every day for months. No thanks. Spin that. I'll tell you how. Here's the most money. Hop on board and the player will be here. Cut that stiff Joesph who does nothing and now we have enough CAP. Not enough. Cut that stiff Rhodes who does nothing. Are we there yet? If not cut another do nothing guy that makes a ton. Waynes? Is that enough? I can cut more if needed. No impact either. Is this guy the missing piece to push us over the top. If not then no thanks. I want difference makers. Impact players. Will he at least open holes to drive a truck through? The running game will be the best ever no matter whos running the ball? Then we are in.
And that's why you should probably stick to other jobs besides marketing.
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Re: Moves the Vikings should make for 2020

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:07 pm

CharVike wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:01 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:18 pm

Cutting Rhodes gets us to a point where we can sign our rookies and kicker.

Waynes gets us nothing, he isn't under contract.

Griffen's salary will go to signing Harris and Mack.

Your secondary now consists of a very good duo at safety, a guy who is always hurt and has played poorly when given the opportunity in Hughes, a nickle corner who will play significant time for the first time on the outside in Mack, a drug addict who is a positive test away from being gone for the season in Hill, and a practice squad guy in Boyd.

There isn't a signing we can make that will make an impact with the cap we have.
Your correct Hughes is always hurt. I said before the season started that I didn't expect him back this year. He was never back and playing well. I think Huhges did well for a young kid. I thought he intercepted a ball and returned it for a TD. Or was that the great Rhodes or Waynes. I might have got the players mixed up. My bad. I don't know all the CAP stuff but you are saying we are stuck were we are at with zero room. We can't get rid of Joseph who gets pushed all over the field. Or is that out also? No restructures? Chris Carter was also a drug addict. So stay away from them and don't trust them? Is that the answer?
For the ten thousandth time:

Linval Joseph has a cap hit of $12.95 million and dead cap of $2.4 million. Do the math. That's $10.55 million in cap savings.
Xavier Rhodes has a cap hit of $12.9 million and dead cap of $4.8 million. That's $8.1 million in cap savings.
If Everson Griffen opts in, he can still be cut for a savings of $10.55 million.
That's $29.2 million in cap savings between three players, two of whom you mentioned as underperforming.

As a matter of fact, every player on the Vikings roster except Kirk Cousins, Garrett Bradbury, Mike Hughes and Irv Smith Jr. can be cut, and the Vikings will save cap space.

The Vikings historically have been very reluctant to carry dead cap on the books, but this time they don't appear to have a choice. Changes are coming. Some players will be let go or restructured. We're millions over the cap, so it's GOT to happen. It's all a matter of who Spielman and Zimmer decide to cut, and who they decide to keep.

You guys can do this financial wizardry yourself very easily at overthecap.com. Just click on the Vikings and look at the last two columns. It's all right there.
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Re: Moves the Vikings should make for 2020

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:27 pm

The issues with the cap were the two bad signings last year. Rudolph and Barr should not have been resigned. Together they are picking up 21 million in cap room. That is the salary of two elite guards. For Rudolph and Barr? What was your favorite Barr play this season? I can't think of one and Rudolph should not be paid elite TE money.

Their contracts are killing this team.
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Re: Moves the Vikings should make for 2020

Post by Dames » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:59 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:27 pm
The issues with the cap were the two bad signings last year. Rudolph and Barr should not have been resigned. Together they are picking up 21 million in cap room. That is the salary of two elite guards. For Rudolph and Barr? What was your favorite Barr play this season? I can't think of one and Rudolph should not be paid elite TE money.

Their contracts are killing this team.
But, but... Rudy scored the TD in OT.... and Barr probably made some plays.
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Re: Moves the Vikings should make for 2020

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:03 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:27 pm
The issues with the cap were the two bad signings last year. Rudolph and Barr should not have been resigned. Together they are picking up 21 million in cap room. That is the salary of two elite guards. For Rudolph and Barr? What was your favorite Barr play this season? I can't think of one and Rudolph should not be paid elite TE money.

Their contracts are killing this team.
Yes, the two contracts that combined take up 21 million are killing the team much more than the single 30 million dollar one.

Even when Barr is not making splashy plays he is the player every offense keys in on stopping on nearly every down. You replace him with Wilson or one of the other backup LBers, and Kendrick's tackles go way down, and the defense gets significantly worse.

Rudy was extended for reasons outside of his play on the field. I don't like it from a football sense, in fact I hate it, but the Vikings could do worse things with their cap than give it to a guy who does so much for this community. Especially considering he is really only getting overpaid by about 4 million a year. I can stomach that.
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Re: Moves the Vikings should make for 2020

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:14 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:03 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:27 pm
The issues with the cap were the two bad signings last year. Rudolph and Barr should not have been resigned. Together they are picking up 21 million in cap room. That is the salary of two elite guards. For Rudolph and Barr? What was your favorite Barr play this season? I can't think of one and Rudolph should not be paid elite TE money.

Their contracts are killing this team.
Yes, the two contracts that combined take up 21 million are killing the team much more than the single 30 million dollar one.

Even when Barr is not making splashy plays he is the player every offense keys in on stopping on nearly every down. You replace him with Wilson or one of the other backup LBers, and Kendrick's tackles go way down, and the defense gets significantly worse.

Rudy was extended for reasons outside of his play on the field. I don't like it from a football sense, in fact I hate it, but the Vikings could do worse things with their cap than give it to a guy who does so much for this community. Especially considering he is really only getting overpaid by about 4 million a year. I can stomach that.
Kirk's 30 million maybe paying a premium for his services but he is serviceable in his role. Barr and Rudolph are grossly overpaid.

You cannot convince me that Barr is who the offense keys to stop. He is not. He has something like 15 career sacks in 6 seasons or so. He is extremely replaceable. We paid him more than Kwon Alexander, which is laughable.

Paying a guy who should be making 5 million a year 10 million is stupid and it is the reason good teams fail to win it all.
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Re: Moves the Vikings should make for 2020

Post by Mothman » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:29 pm

Rudolph might seem like a better value if they actually used him more in the passing game. He's not an elite player but he's a very effective receiver, especially in the red zone. Unfortunately, he sometimes seems forgotten in the offense. I think that's partly because they've relied on him more as a blocker in recent years.
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Re: Moves the Vikings should make for 2020

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:51 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:14 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:03 pm


Yes, the two contracts that combined take up 21 million are killing the team much more than the single 30 million dollar one.

Even when Barr is not making splashy plays he is the player every offense keys in on stopping on nearly every down. You replace him with Wilson or one of the other backup LBers, and Kendrick's tackles go way down, and the defense gets significantly worse.

Rudy was extended for reasons outside of his play on the field. I don't like it from a football sense, in fact I hate it, but the Vikings could do worse things with their cap than give it to a guy who does so much for this community. Especially considering he is really only getting overpaid by about 4 million a year. I can stomach that.
Kirk's 30 million maybe paying a premium for his services but he is serviceable in his role. Barr and Rudolph are grossly overpaid.

You cannot convince me that Barr is who the offense keys to stop. He is not. He has something like 15 career sacks in 6 seasons or so. He is extremely replaceable. We paid him more than Kwon Alexander, which is laughable.

Paying a guy who should be making 5 million a year 10 million is stupid and it is the reason good teams fail to win it all.
Barr and Rudy aren't even serviceable?

Barr's Worth From the HC:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/zi ... ar-BBUPS8Q
This is before he had his best season in terms of tackles this year.

I agree from a football sense that paying a guy 10 who is worth 5 is stupid, but from a business standpoint I get why they did.
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Re: Moves the Vikings should make for 2020

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:42 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:27 pm
What was your favorite Barr play this season?
His sack of Matt Ryan on the first snap of the season.

You asked.
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Re: Moves the Vikings should make for 2020

Post by Maelstrom88 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:44 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:42 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:27 pm
What was your favorite Barr play this season?
His sack of Matt Ryan on the first snap of the season.

You asked.
I liked when he lit up that packer for a fumble in week 16. :smilevike:
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Re: Moves the Vikings should make for 2020

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:18 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:51 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:14 pm


Kirk's 30 million maybe paying a premium for his services but he is serviceable in his role. Barr and Rudolph are grossly overpaid.

You cannot convince me that Barr is who the offense keys to stop. He is not. He has something like 15 career sacks in 6 seasons or so. He is extremely replaceable. We paid him more than Kwon Alexander, which is laughable.

Paying a guy who should be making 5 million a year 10 million is stupid and it is the reason good teams fail to win it all.
Barr and Rudy aren't even serviceable?

Barr's Worth From the HC:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/zi ... ar-BBUPS8Q
This is before he had his best season in terms of tackles this year.

I agree from a football sense that paying a guy 10 who is worth 5 is stupid, but from a business standpoint I get why they did.
Im writing this in caps.
MIKE ZIMMER OVERVALUES HIS PLAYERS DUE TO LOYALTY!!
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Re: Moves the Vikings should make for 2020

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:22 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:42 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:27 pm
What was your favorite Barr play this season?
His sack of Matt Ryan on the first snap of the season.

You asked.
He finsihed the season with 1.5
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: Moves the Vikings should make for 2020

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:22 am

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:18 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:51 pm


Barr and Rudy aren't even serviceable?

Barr's Worth From the HC:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/zi ... ar-BBUPS8Q
This is before he had his best season in terms of tackles this year.

I agree from a football sense that paying a guy 10 who is worth 5 is stupid, but from a business standpoint I get why they did.
Im writing this in caps.
MIKE ZIMMER OVERVALUES HIS PLAYERS DUE TO LOYALTY!!
I do think loyalty is important Zimmer, but I do not think he would make his team worse because of that loyalty. Number one is winning for all coaches, then comes the other stuff.

This also implies that when Zimmer says "every team but one schemed to stop Barr last year, and the only one that didn't, we got 10 sacks" he is either lying or very bad at understanding the film he watches.
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Re: Moves the Vikings should make for 2020

Post by Dames » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:42 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:22 am
YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:18 pm


Im writing this in caps.
MIKE ZIMMER OVERVALUES HIS PLAYERS DUE TO LOYALTY!!
I do think loyalty is important Zimmer, but I do not think he would make his team worse because of that loyalty. Number one is winning for all coaches, then comes the other stuff.

This also implies that when Zimmer says "every team but one schemed to stop Barr last year, and the only one that didn't, we got 10 sacks" he is either lying or very bad at understanding the film he watches.
I agree. I doubt think it's a factor. Barr had a contract in place with the Jets that was worth more than the Vikings paid him. There was a market for him.

It felt like he was too loyal to Rhodes for a while this year, but I'm guessing that had more to do with who was playing behind him. As the year went on, Rhodes plays less snaps, and that clearly doesn't suggest being loyal to a fault. Rhodes earned the contract he was given, even though he has fallen off since.

Rudy is probably overpaid for what he gave us on the field this year, although the 2nd half of the year he made a big impact. But, as someone stated earlier, he is tremendous off-the-field. There is value in having that kind of player on your team. I would guess that influenced his contact quite a bit.

Anyway, I'm not buying the argument Yikes.
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