Moves the Vikings should make for 2020

[CharVike]

Why do you think the Saints went back to Brees? He can't beat out an old man who can't make the trows he once did. That says nothing I guess.

Look, I'm not a Teddy believer either, but to say he's not good because he went back to bench after a hall-of-famer came back from injury is really outrageous. That actually does say nothing about Teddy. Brees is one of the greatest QBs in history, whether his arm is the same or not, you're not going to bench him. He is still a fantastic QB, and continues to set records.

Morrell replaced an injured HOFer Johnny U during the season and lead the team to a Super Bowl. When Unitas healed Shula let Morrell continue to play. So it works both ways and I don't think it's outrageous and provided a real world example. People thinking Teddy is the answer are really outrageous. Cousins is much better than him. I've seen both play. The physical skill level isn't close. There are many that are POed because we signed Cousins. They felt Keenum was a better option, now it's Ted, because we could have signed a bunch of super star players. Hello super star players don't become available in FA very often. When they do there is a mad rush for them. Even an above average guy like Cousins had teams banging on the door offering a ton of coin. That won't happen for Teddy because he's not good enough and is frail. Like most you have fallen in the Brees media trap. We have beaten him 2 out of the last three years in the playoffs. We are not an elite team either. That says nothing about Brees and his current ability. Not 10 years ago ability but now. To me that says a lot about Teddy. Brees would be traded (for a boatload of picks) or benched to try and win a Super Bowl.But Brees isn't worth much at this point.

[StumpHunter]

Man it would be fun to see what he could do in a legit passing offense built around him and not his RB or Drew Brees. Even in an offense built for another QB, his numbers in 5 starts project out to be slightly better than Cousins' over 15 games.

So are you saying this offense is built around Kirk Cousins? Because that isnt true. It's built around the run game and Dalvin Cook. Similar to how the offense was in 2015 built around Peterson. The only difference being they hardly threw to AP where Cook gets a lot of targets. This is a Gary Kubiak offense. The screens, play action, etc. isnt something they just did for Kirk Cousins, it's something he has always done. Which is why it's the best offensive scheme for Cousins. But this offense is clearly geared towards the run game. The difference between this offense and Teddy's offense in 2015 is Teddy couldnt make the throws Cousins does. Teddy is an overly conservative game manager. Again, look when we lost in 2015, it was because AP couldnt get anywhere and in turn, Teddy couldnt carry the load. Results in an L or was bailed out by his defense. Not all games but at least 4 of the games this year, Cousins was able to carry the load when Cook wasnt getting anywhere going 3-1 in those games.

As for him at the Saints, I find it funny you arent counting his 6th game because he didnt "start" and it happened to be his worst game by far. Let's be honest, Brees was knocked out early in that game and only threw 5 passes. Teddy threw 30. That was Teddy's game and yeah he didnt play well at all. In 4 of those 6 games, Teddy YPA was under 6.7. Cousins was 8.1 on the year. Why? Because Teddy is an overly conservative game manager. And the game that is jacking these stats up was against the 30th ranked pass defense in the entire NFL in Tampa Bay (most of the year they were sitting in dead last).

It just kills me that somehow, some way, fans still think Teddy was some kind of great passer. Was there a different Teddy that played for the Vikings that was a good passer? Because I sure dont know which Teddy you are talking about. His passing ability was by FAR the most underwhelming aspect of his game. And guys try to use the excuse that AP was the reason Teddy couldnt succeed as a passer. He had 447 passes that year, Cousins had 444 this year. He had his chances and did very little with them. If our 2015 team could play our 2019 team, our 2019 team beats them and beats them handily and it would come down to the QBs. Teddy couldnt hold a stick to Cousins when it comes to passing ability. It's not even close.

But you have guys say Cousins is "scared" or Cousins missed open WRs, or Cousins cant handle the run game being shut down, etc. Nobody was more scared to throw the ball downfield than Teddy was. I can bet my bank account that Teddy missed PLENTY of open WRs (which regardless is a stupid argument because you dont know who is what # read) and nobody struggled more than Teddy when his running back couldnt get anywhere.

Look at the games AP was under 90 yards in 2015:

SF- 31 yards, Teddy was brutal, LOSS
Denver- 81 yards, Teddy was strip sacked on final drive, LOSS
KC- 60 yards, Teddy throws 2 picks, we hold KC's offense to 10 points, WIN
GB- 45 yards, had the game at 19-13, Teddy's final drives consist of sack, sack, turnover on downs, turnover on downs, LOSS
Seattle- 18 yards, Teddy threw for 118 yards and an INT, LOSS
Arizona- 69 yards, Teddy plays one of his better games but again, strip sacked on the final drive, LOSS
Chicago- 60 yards, a team that already threw the towel in, Teddy has the best game of his career, WIN
GB- 67 yards, Teddy threw for a pathetic 99 yards and 0 TDs, WIN

So out of all those, our 5 losses were in there and Teddy was pretty brutal in all 5 of those. The 3 wins we had, 2 were saved by his defense holding KC to 10 points when he was throwing costly INTs and GB when we harassed Rodgers all game and scored a TD. So ok, let's give Teddy ONE "legitimate" win vs a pathetic Bears team at home. The rest were ridden on the coat tails of Adrian Peterson

....but guys complain about Cousins and defend a guy that showed and did very little for this franchise. Less than what Cousins has done

On this team, Teddy probably has us winning the division. The guy went 5-0 on a team that was proven to be not as good as the Vikings. Beat two teams that beat us during that 5-0 stretch.

[J. Kapp 11]

So are you saying this offense is built around Kirk Cousins? Because that isnt true. It's built around the run game and Dalvin Cook. Similar to how the offense was in 2015 built around Peterson. The only difference being they hardly threw to AP where Cook gets a lot of targets. This is a Gary Kubiak offense. The screens, play action, etc. isnt something they just did for Kirk Cousins, it's something he has always done. Which is why it's the best offensive scheme for Cousins. But this offense is clearly geared towards the run game. The difference between this offense and Teddy's offense in 2015 is Teddy couldnt make the throws Cousins does. Teddy is an overly conservative game manager. Again, look when we lost in 2015, it was because AP couldnt get anywhere and in turn, Teddy couldnt carry the load. Results in an L or was bailed out by his defense. Not all games but at least 4 of the games this year, Cousins was able to carry the load when Cook wasnt getting anywhere going 3-1 in those games.

As for him at the Saints, I find it funny you arent counting his 6th game because he didnt "start" and it happened to be his worst game by far. Let's be honest, Brees was knocked out early in that game and only threw 5 passes. Teddy threw 30. That was Teddy's game and yeah he didnt play well at all. In 4 of those 6 games, Teddy YPA was under 6.7. Cousins was 8.1 on the year. Why? Because Teddy is an overly conservative game manager. And the game that is jacking these stats up was against the 30th ranked pass defense in the entire NFL in Tampa Bay (most of the year they were sitting in dead last).

It just kills me that somehow, some way, fans still think Teddy was some kind of great passer. Was there a different Teddy that played for the Vikings that was a good passer? Because I sure dont know which Teddy you are talking about. His passing ability was by FAR the most underwhelming aspect of his game. And guys try to use the excuse that AP was the reason Teddy couldnt succeed as a passer. He had 447 passes that year, Cousins had 444 this year. He had his chances and did very little with them. If our 2015 team could play our 2019 team, our 2019 team beats them and beats them handily and it would come down to the QBs. Teddy couldnt hold a stick to Cousins when it comes to passing ability. It's not even close.

But you have guys say Cousins is "scared" or Cousins missed open WRs, or Cousins cant handle the run game being shut down, etc. Nobody was more scared to throw the ball downfield than Teddy was. I can bet my bank account that Teddy missed PLENTY of open WRs (which regardless is a stupid argument because you dont know who is what # read) and nobody struggled more than Teddy when his running back couldnt get anywhere.

Look at the games AP was under 90 yards in 2015:

SF- 31 yards, Teddy was brutal, LOSS
Denver- 81 yards, Teddy was strip sacked on final drive, LOSS
KC- 60 yards, Teddy throws 2 picks, we hold KC's offense to 10 points, WIN
GB- 45 yards, had the game at 19-13, Teddy's final drives consist of sack, sack, turnover on downs, turnover on downs, LOSS
Seattle- 18 yards, Teddy threw for 118 yards and an INT, LOSS
Arizona- 69 yards, Teddy plays one of his better games but again, strip sacked on the final drive, LOSS
Chicago- 60 yards, a team that already threw the towel in, Teddy has the best game of his career, WIN
GB- 67 yards, Teddy threw for a pathetic 99 yards and 0 TDs, WIN

So out of all those, our 5 losses were in there and Teddy was pretty brutal in all 5 of those. The 3 wins we had, 2 were saved by his defense holding KC to 10 points when he was throwing costly INTs and GB when we harassed Rodgers all game and scored a TD. So ok, let's give Teddy ONE "legitimate" win vs a pathetic Bears team at home. The rest were ridden on the coat tails of Adrian Peterson

....but guys complain about Cousins and defend a guy that showed and did very little for this franchise. Less than what Cousins has done

On this team, Teddy probably has us winning the division. The guy went 5-0 on a team that was proven to be not as good as the Vikings. Beat two teams that beat us during that 5-0 stretch.

Yeah, in fairness, Teddy wasn't the QB in '15 that he is now.

The thing Teddy has over Kirk is mobility, even after his injury. Teddy moves well in the pocket and keeps plays alive with his feet. Kirk has the advantage when it comes to arm talent, for sure.

I have to be honest ... I was impressed with Teddy this year, especially given where he was in his last year with the Vikings, when I questioned whether he should have even been on the field. He had pretty good command of the NOLA offense, and he won games. Was he the second coming of Dan Marino? No. But he played well. A bit on the game manager side, but he kept their season alive. That's an achievement. Hopefully somebody gives him a shot in 2020.

[StumpHunter]

Look, I'm not a Teddy believer either, but to say he's not good because he went back to bench after a hall-of-famer came back from injury is really outrageous. That actually does say nothing about Teddy. Brees is one of the greatest QBs in history, whether his arm is the same or not, you're not going to bench him. He is still a fantastic QB, and continues to set records.

Morrell replaced an injured HOFer Johnny U during the season and lead the team to a Super Bowl. When Unitas healed Shula let Morrell continue to play. So it works both ways and I don't think it's outrageous and provided a real world example. People thinking Teddy is the answer are really outrageous. Cousins is much better than him. I've seen both play. The physical skill level isn't close. There are many that are POed because we signed Cousins. They felt Keenum was a better option, now it's Ted, because we could have signed a bunch of super star players. Hello super star players don't become available in FA very often. When they do there is a mad rush for them. Even an above average guy like Cousins had teams banging on the door offering a ton of coin. That won't happen for Teddy because he's not good enough and is frail. Like most you have fallen in the Brees media trap. We have beaten him 2 out of the last three years in the playoffs. We are not an elite team either. That says nothing about Brees and his current ability. Not 10 years ago ability but now. To me that says a lot about Teddy. Brees would be traded (for a boatload of picks) or benched to try and win a Super Bowl.But Brees isn't worth much at this point.

Wow. You write a lot of interesting things on here, but this has got to be one of your more interesting takes. Brees was the best passer in football the final half of the season. His arm isn't what it once was, but both he and Brady are the proof that what is between the ears is way more important than what is attached to the shoulder.

[StumpHunter]

On this team, Teddy probably has us winning the division. The guy went 5-0 on a team that was proven to be not as good as the Vikings. Beat two teams that beat us during that 5-0 stretch.

Yeah, in fairness, Teddy wasn't the QB in '15 that he is now.

A QB improved over his first full season as a starter!?!?!

It is almost like he had a lot of potential that you could see at the end of games when down a score where they opened up the offense, and 3rd and longs where AP was not on the field and they had to pass.

[Dames]

Look, I'm not a Teddy believer either, but to say he's not good because he went back to bench after a hall-of-famer came back from injury is really outrageous. That actually does say nothing about Teddy. Brees is one of the greatest QBs in history, whether his arm is the same or not, you're not going to bench him. He is still a fantastic QB, and continues to set records.

Morrell replaced an injured HOFer Johnny U during the season and lead the team to a Super Bowl. When Unitas healed Shula let Morrell continue to play. So it works both ways and I don't think it's outrageous and provided a real world example. People thinking Teddy is the answer are really outrageous. Cousins is much better than him. I've seen both play. The physical skill level isn't close. There are many that are POed because we signed Cousins. They felt Keenum was a better option, now it's Ted, because we could have signed a bunch of super star players. Hello super star players don't become available in FA very often. When they do there is a mad rush for them. Even an above average guy like Cousins had teams banging on the door offering a ton of coin. That won't happen for Teddy because he's not good enough and is frail. Like most you have fallen in the Brees media trap. We have beaten him 2 out of the last three years in the playoffs. We are not an elite team either. That says nothing about Brees and his current ability. Not 10 years ago ability but now. To me that says a lot about Teddy. Brees would be traded (for a boatload of picks) or benched to try and win a Super Bowl.But Brees isn't worth much at this point.

Ha! Just because Brees looked pedestrian vs us in his last game doesn't mean anything. Maybe you haven't seen him play in any other games. Even at this point in his career I would take him in a heartbeat. He's far from a media creation. If anything, he gets less credit than he deserves. Yep, he didn't look so great vs us, but he is great QB still. This isn't even close to when Unitas was benched since Brees is still playing at a very high level.

[StumpHunter]

Morrell replaced an injured HOFer Johnny U during the season and lead the team to a Super Bowl. When Unitas healed Shula let Morrell continue to play. So it works both ways and I don't think it's outrageous and provided a real world example. People thinking Teddy is the answer are really outrageous. Cousins is much better than him. I've seen both play. The physical skill level isn't close. There are many that are POed because we signed Cousins. They felt Keenum was a better option, now it's Ted, because we could have signed a bunch of super star players. Hello super star players don't become available in FA very often. When they do there is a mad rush for them. Even an above average guy like Cousins had teams banging on the door offering a ton of coin. That won't happen for Teddy because he's not good enough and is frail. Like most you have fallen in the Brees media trap. We have beaten him 2 out of the last three years in the playoffs. We are not an elite team either. That says nothing about Brees and his current ability. Not 10 years ago ability but now. To me that says a lot about Teddy. Brees would be traded (for a boatload of picks) or benched to try and win a Super Bowl.But Brees isn't worth much at this point.

Ha! Just because Brees looked pedestrian vs us in his last game doesn't mean anything. Maybe you haven't seen him play in any other games. Even at this point in his career I would take him in a heartbeat. He's far from a media creation. If anything, he gets less credit than he deserves. Yep, he didn't look so great vs us, but he is great QB still. This isn't even close to when Unitas was benched since Brees is still playing at a very high level.

People forget that despite his team, and him, playing really poorly for the most part and a great defensive strategy to shut them down, Brees got his team back in that game. If not for a missed FG, they move on to SF, a team they just absolutely lit up in the regular season.

[CharVike]

Morrell replaced an injured HOFer Johnny U during the season and lead the team to a Super Bowl. When Unitas healed Shula let Morrell continue to play. So it works both ways and I don't think it's outrageous and provided a real world example. People thinking Teddy is the answer are really outrageous. Cousins is much better than him. I've seen both play. The physical skill level isn't close. There are many that are POed because we signed Cousins. They felt Keenum was a better option, now it's Ted, because we could have signed a bunch of super star players. Hello super star players don't become available in FA very often. When they do there is a mad rush for them. Even an above average guy like Cousins had teams banging on the door offering a ton of coin. That won't happen for Teddy because he's not good enough and is frail. Like most you have fallen in the Brees media trap. We have beaten him 2 out of the last three years in the playoffs. We are not an elite team either. That says nothing about Brees and his current ability. Not 10 years ago ability but now. To me that says a lot about Teddy. Brees would be traded (for a boatload of picks) or benched to try and win a Super Bowl.But Brees isn't worth much at this point.

Ha! Just because Brees looked pedestrian vs us in his last game doesn't mean anything. Maybe you haven't seen him play in any other games. Even at this point in his career I would take him in a heartbeat. He's far from a media creation. If anything, he gets less credit than he deserves. Yep, he didn't look so great vs us, but he is great QB still. This isn't even close to when Unitas was benched since Brees is still playing at a very high level.

Unitas wasn't benched. He got hurt early in the season. Shula made a mistake by sticking with the backup, which he admitted, and lost the Super Bowl because of it. Unitas then won a Super Bowl a few years later. And you post he wasn't playing at a high level. How much higher can he go? The last two times I watched Brees was against us in the playoffs and he lost both games. Great career I don't doubt that. But getting beat by a weaker opponent in the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years is never mentioned. Cousins gets beat by a heavy favorite and most point him out as a loser. I don't Our D isn't good enough to push us over the top. R Wilson just got beat. The LOB would have helped him. Or maybe that isn't true either.

[StanM]

I'd trade Kirk and sign Teddy if possible. Otherwise I'd bench Kirk and sign Teddy.

That would be a trip. I don't think there is any realistic chance it would happen, but it would be interesting. I don't know that it would make us better, but I was really looking forward to seeing what Teddy could do before his injury. Prior to that, I didn't see much to get me excited. I had an open mind about it though.

Teddy is a good game manager and he doesn't turn the ball over very often. I watched him a little bit while he was starting those five games and he still moves better than Kirk, even after his injury. Teddy is a kind of subtle good that doesn't grab one's attention but he finds ways to win which is one of those intangibles that Kirk hasn't demonstrated. The biggest question about Bridgewater is whether his knee will hold up for a full season and playoff run. I don't know enough about the medical side and surgery to have an opinion but Vikings management decided that it wasn't worth the gamble and they know way more than I do.

Finding a replacement at QB is always a struggle. If a team is high enough up the draft board to nab one of the highly touted QB's it means they sucked and got a top pick or they made a blockbuster trade. Teams don't finish 10-6 and have much of a shot at the highly rated QB's and are usually in the position of taking a later draft choice on a leap of faith.

Specific players and details aside I'm sticking with my prognostication of .500 give or take a game or two next season. They have no choice but to put all of their eggs in the "adding a few more pieces" category for Kirk's final season of his contract. I believe that they'll fall short on that approach again and be forced to blow the whole thing up and start over after next season. I might be way off but but that is my gut feeling. As someone who remembers Vikings game #1 and has seen all 30 playoff losses I have developed a pretty good sense of when a complete rebuild is on the horizon. Lord knows I've seen enough of those....

[CharVike]

That would be a trip. I don't think there is any realistic chance it would happen, but it would be interesting. I don't know that it would make us better, but I was really looking forward to seeing what Teddy could do before his injury. Prior to that, I didn't see much to get me excited. I had an open mind about it though.

Teddy is a good game manager and he doesn't turn the ball over very often. I watched him a little bit while he was starting those five games and he still moves better than Kirk, even after his injury. Teddy is a kind of subtle good that doesn't grab one's attention but he finds ways to win which is one of those intangibles that Kirk hasn't demonstrated. The biggest question about Bridgewater is whether his knee will hold up for a full season and playoff run. I don't know enough about the medical side and surgery to have an opinion but Vikings management decided that it wasn't worth the gamble and they know way more than I do.

Finding a replacement at QB is always a struggle. If a team is high enough up the draft board to nab one of the highly touted QB's it means they sucked and got a top pick or they made a blockbuster trade. Teams don't finish 10-6 and have much of a shot at the highly rated QB's and are usually in the position of taking a later draft choice on a leap of faith.

Specific players and details aside I'm sticking with my prognostication of .500 give or take a game or two next season. They have no choice but to put all of their eggs in the "adding a few more pieces" category for Kirk's final season of his contract. I believe that they'll fall short on that approach again and be forced to blow the whole thing up and start over after next season. I might be way off but but that is my gut feeling. As someone who remembers Vikings game #1 and has seen all 30 playoff losses I have developed a pretty good sense of when a complete rebuild is on the horizon. Lord knows I've seen enough of those....

I think Teddy is a FA this year. He should get 30-40 million a year. Teams will be going after him big time. Just like Cousins. IMO you won't see that. The risk is too high.

[CharVike]

Ha! Just because Brees looked pedestrian vs us in his last game doesn't mean anything. Maybe you haven't seen him play in any other games. Even at this point in his career I would take him in a heartbeat. He's far from a media creation. If anything, he gets less credit than he deserves. Yep, he didn't look so great vs us, but he is great QB still. This isn't even close to when Unitas was benched since Brees is still playing at a very high level.

People forget that despite his team, and him, playing really poorly for the most part and a great defensive strategy to shut them down, Brees got his team back in that game. If not for a missed FG, they move on to SF, a team they just absolutely lit up in the regular season.

No Hill got them back in the game. He was the driving force that did it.

[CharVike]

Morrell replaced an injured HOFer Johnny U during the season and lead the team to a Super Bowl. When Unitas healed Shula let Morrell continue to play. So it works both ways and I don't think it's outrageous and provided a real world example. People thinking Teddy is the answer are really outrageous. Cousins is much better than him. I've seen both play. The physical skill level isn't close. There are many that are POed because we signed Cousins. They felt Keenum was a better option, now it's Ted, because we could have signed a bunch of super star players. Hello super star players don't become available in FA very often. When they do there is a mad rush for them. Even an above average guy like Cousins had teams banging on the door offering a ton of coin. That won't happen for Teddy because he's not good enough and is frail. Like most you have fallen in the Brees media trap. We have beaten him 2 out of the last three years in the playoffs. We are not an elite team either. That says nothing about Brees and his current ability. Not 10 years ago ability but now. To me that says a lot about Teddy. Brees would be traded (for a boatload of picks) or benched to try and win a Super Bowl.But Brees isn't worth much at this point.

Wow. You write a lot of interesting things on here, but this has got to be one of your more interesting takes. Brees was the best passer in football the final half of the season. His arm isn't what it once was, but both he and Brady are the proof that what is between the ears is way more important than what is attached to the shoulder.

Brees had a great career. He overcame much and won a Super Bowl. We went to OT with the Saints because of some stiff named Hill. I don't even know who the hell he is. I guess a jack of all. Without that bum we kill that team. I liked Brady when he was in College. NFL teams didn't like him for some reason. Maybe because he couldn't hold the starting job in college. Being smart always helps. But if a guy can't throw a football I don't care how smart they are they won't make it. How many Ivy League guys make great NFL QBs? I'm sure it has happened. But I haven't seen many since I've been watching. I don't recall a Princeton guy ever shinning. I'm sure you'll find one from 1910 or something.

[StumpHunter]

Wow. You write a lot of interesting things on here, but this has got to be one of your more interesting takes. Brees was the best passer in football the final half of the season. His arm isn't what it once was, but both he and Brady are the proof that what is between the ears is way more important than what is attached to the shoulder.

Brees had a great career. He overcame much and won a Super Bowl. We went to OT with the Saints because of some stiff named Hill. I don't even know who the hell he is. I guess a jack of all. Without that bum we kill that team. I liked Brady when he was in College. NFL teams didn't like him for some reason. Maybe because he couldn't hold the starting job in college. Being smart always helps. But if a guy can't throw a football I don't care how smart they are they won't make it. How many Ivy League guys make great NFL QBs? I'm sure it has happened. But I haven't seen many since I've been watching. I don't recall a Princeton guy ever shinning. I'm sure you'll find one from 1910 or something.

I am not talking about intelligence. I am talking about the ability to read the field and make quick, smart decisions. Brady and Brees have had the two worst arms in football for the past few years while also being two of the best QBs in football.

You need to be able to make all the throws, but you do not need a cannon of an arm to be successful in the NFL. A below average armed QB with an elite ability to read the field is an elite QB, a below average ability to read the field QB with an elite arm is probably going to be pretty average.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Ha! Just because Brees looked pedestrian vs us in his last game doesn't mean anything. Maybe you haven't seen him play in any other games. Even at this point in his career I would take him in a heartbeat. He's far from a media creation. If anything, he gets less credit than he deserves. Yep, he didn't look so great vs us, but he is great QB still. This isn't even close to when Unitas was benched since Brees is still playing at a very high level.

People forget that despite his team, and him, playing really poorly for the most part and a great defensive strategy to shut them down, Brees got his team back in that game. If not for a missed FG, they move on to SF, a team they just absolutely lit up in the regular season.

Ehh, yeah I would say Brees didnt do a whole lot of anything in this game. No less fumbled in crunch time. Brees looked like an average to below average QB that game.

[StumpHunter]

People forget that despite his team, and him, playing really poorly for the most part and a great defensive strategy to shut them down, Brees got his team back in that game. If not for a missed FG, they move on to SF, a team they just absolutely lit up in the regular season.

Ehh, yeah I would say Brees didnt do a whole lot of anything in this game. No less fumbled in crunch time. Brees looked like an average to below average QB that game.

Just bad luck he lost 100% of his fumbles that game.