Vikings/Saints Post-Game

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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Vikings/Saints Post-Game

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:04 am

CharVike wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:01 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:41 pm


Yeah dude I dont even know what you just said.
I'll make it simple. Catch a short pass and take it to the house. Do something big. Turn the game. I'm not creating a narrative, We are winning and guys are playing like hell and he's having an issue with something. We will never know the issue. I've watch this a long time and he looked POed. Maybe that's how people act when they are happy and I'm wrong. I've seen happy players and that's a new one. Maybe he's looking to create a brand. It's simple turn the game. Put it out of reach. If he did that do you think he would act like he did during that game. I doubt it. We he scored on the miracle he didn't act like that.
Watch Dalvin Cook's interview after the game. They asked him about Diggs getting frustrated and he laughed and said "That's just Diggs". And then went into explaining that it's just the fight and competitor in him. I agree that I dont like to see it. It's a bad look regardless and I know the media and announcers are just praying that it's because of Cousins so they have a story. However, Diggs said it had nothing to do with any of his teammates. He said he was getting frustrated due to the coverage he was drawing (getting doubled, blanketed with a safety, etc.). Nobody seems concerned about it at all.

The one I am concerned with is Rhodes. Diggs' tantrums are a bad look but 90% of the time it ends up being nothing. With Rhodes, it's a completely different story. EVERY time he gets burned, he does one of two things. Either acts out an injury or argues with a teammate. Specifically Harrison Smith. Which I'm sorry but Smith is one guy you should NOT be blaming. Not saying he doesnt make mistakes but over the years, there hasnt been a Viking that has made less mistakes than Smith. I think Rhodes' problem is that he's embarrassed and trying to save his old reputation. He knows he's been getting abused and is doing everything in his power to make it look like it's not his fault (milking injuries or pointing the finger). Can anyone name a play where Rhodes flat out got burned and just moved on to the next play? I sure cant. THAT's a problem. I'm not worried about Diggs because Diggs still performs and performs at a high level. Rhodes isnt getting any better. His career is on a HARD downhill slope right now and at this rate, he's never going to be back to 2017 form. He's trying to save any bit of juice he has left and it's not working and painting a bad picture.
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Re: Vikings/Saints Post-Game

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:55 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:04 am
CharVike wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:01 am

I'll make it simple. Catch a short pass and take it to the house. Do something big. Turn the game. I'm not creating a narrative, We are winning and guys are playing like hell and he's having an issue with something. We will never know the issue. I've watch this a long time and he looked POed. Maybe that's how people act when they are happy and I'm wrong. I've seen happy players and that's a new one. Maybe he's looking to create a brand. It's simple turn the game. Put it out of reach. If he did that do you think he would act like he did during that game. I doubt it. We he scored on the miracle he didn't act like that.
Watch Dalvin Cook's interview after the game. They asked him about Diggs getting frustrated and he laughed and said "That's just Diggs". And then went into explaining that it's just the fight and competitor in him. I agree that I dont like to see it. It's a bad look regardless and I know the media and announcers are just praying that it's because of Cousins so they have a story. However, Diggs said it had nothing to do with any of his teammates. He said he was getting frustrated due to the coverage he was drawing (getting doubled, blanketed with a safety, etc.). Nobody seems concerned about it at all.

The one I am concerned with is Rhodes. Diggs' tantrums are a bad look but 90% of the time it ends up being nothing. With Rhodes, it's a completely different story. EVERY time he gets burned, he does one of two things. Either acts out an injury or argues with a teammate. Specifically Harrison Smith. Which I'm sorry but Smith is one guy you should NOT be blaming. Not saying he doesnt make mistakes but over the years, there hasnt been a Viking that has made less mistakes than Smith. I think Rhodes' problem is that he's embarrassed and trying to save his old reputation. He knows he's been getting abused and is doing everything in his power to make it look like it's not his fault (milking injuries or pointing the finger). Can anyone name a play where Rhodes flat out got burned and just moved on to the next play? I sure cant. THAT's a problem. I'm not worried about Diggs because Diggs still performs and performs at a high level. Rhodes isnt getting any better. His career is on a HARD downhill slope right now and at this rate, he's never going to be back to 2017 form. He's trying to save any bit of juice he has left and it's not working and painting a bad picture.
Rhodes' theatrics are obnoxious and it is shocking a guy his age still does that crap. You see it a lot in elementary and middle school aged kids, where they screw up and suddenly their legs give out and they have an injury they didn't realize they had. Most outgrow it by High School.

That being said, he actually had a reason to be upset about the long pass from Hill. Smith absolutely blew that coverage, but to most fans it looks like Rhodes screwed up. He probably felt he would be hearing about that completion all off season and worse, cost him millions after he is cut. A more mature player would not have acted out the way he did, but I think Rhodes might have the emotional IQ of a 12 year old.
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Re: Vikings/Saints Post-Game

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:04 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:55 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:04 am


Watch Dalvin Cook's interview after the game. They asked him about Diggs getting frustrated and he laughed and said "That's just Diggs". And then went into explaining that it's just the fight and competitor in him. I agree that I dont like to see it. It's a bad look regardless and I know the media and announcers are just praying that it's because of Cousins so they have a story. However, Diggs said it had nothing to do with any of his teammates. He said he was getting frustrated due to the coverage he was drawing (getting doubled, blanketed with a safety, etc.). Nobody seems concerned about it at all.

The one I am concerned with is Rhodes. Diggs' tantrums are a bad look but 90% of the time it ends up being nothing. With Rhodes, it's a completely different story. EVERY time he gets burned, he does one of two things. Either acts out an injury or argues with a teammate. Specifically Harrison Smith. Which I'm sorry but Smith is one guy you should NOT be blaming. Not saying he doesnt make mistakes but over the years, there hasnt been a Viking that has made less mistakes than Smith. I think Rhodes' problem is that he's embarrassed and trying to save his old reputation. He knows he's been getting abused and is doing everything in his power to make it look like it's not his fault (milking injuries or pointing the finger). Can anyone name a play where Rhodes flat out got burned and just moved on to the next play? I sure cant. THAT's a problem. I'm not worried about Diggs because Diggs still performs and performs at a high level. Rhodes isnt getting any better. His career is on a HARD downhill slope right now and at this rate, he's never going to be back to 2017 form. He's trying to save any bit of juice he has left and it's not working and painting a bad picture.
Rhodes' theatrics are obnoxious and it is shocking a guy his age still does that crap. You see it a lot in elementary and middle school aged kids, where they screw up and suddenly their legs give out and they have an injury they didn't realize they had. Most outgrow it by High School.

That being said, he actually had a reason to be upset about the long pass from Hill. Smith absolutely blew that coverage, but to most fans it looks like Rhodes screwed up. He probably felt he would be hearing about that completion all off season and worse, cost him millions after he is cut. A more mature player would not have acted out the way he did, but I think Rhodes might have the emotional IQ of a 12 year old.
How do you know Smith blew it? Rhodes was 1 on 1 with a below average NFL WR and got completely turned around. If there was a safety that was suppose to be over the top, it's something we might not ever know. But it's not like Rhodes sat in zone and nobody was there behind him. He was 1 on 1 and didnt have a shot staying with his WR. You were on islands with top WRs for how many years now?? Now you cant be on an island with a below average WR? If that's the case, then yes, you should be cut.
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Re: Vikings/Saints Post-Game

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:35 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:04 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:55 am

Rhodes' theatrics are obnoxious and it is shocking a guy his age still does that crap. You see it a lot in elementary and middle school aged kids, where they screw up and suddenly their legs give out and they have an injury they didn't realize they had. Most outgrow it by High School.

That being said, he actually had a reason to be upset about the long pass from Hill. Smith absolutely blew that coverage, but to most fans it looks like Rhodes screwed up. He probably felt he would be hearing about that completion all off season and worse, cost him millions after he is cut. A more mature player would not have acted out the way he did, but I think Rhodes might have the emotional IQ of a 12 year old.
How do you know Smith blew it? Rhodes was 1 on 1 with a below average NFL WR and got completely turned around. If there was a safety that was suppose to be over the top, it's something we might not ever know. But it's not like Rhodes sat in zone and nobody was there behind him. He was 1 on 1 and didnt have a shot staying with his WR. You were on islands with top WRs for how many years now?? Now you cant be on an island with a below average WR? If that's the case, then yes, you should be cut.
Rhodes isn't blameless on that play, but it was clear he thought he had help over the middle. Could be he was wrong and Smith wasn't supposed to be in position to defend the deep ball.
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Re: Vikings/Saints Post-Game

Post by Grashopa » Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:12 pm

It was my belief that Harris was the safety help that Rhodes was expecting (even though Smith ended up being there at the end of the play) and perhaps he was talking to smith as the "leader" of the safeties? /shrug. I feel that there was another time earlier in the season where it seemed that Harris may have messed up and they showed Rhodes talking to Smith (that has happened way too much this season). Not defending Rhodes in any way though, he has been terrible all season and got turned around bad on that specific play (Waynes got turned around that bad on a play also iirc). But he did close quickly and nearly made a play on the ball, thankfully neither him or smith got hurt on that play.

The saints DBs were way more bent out of shape near the end of the game than ours were :D
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Re: Vikings/Saints Post-Game

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:25 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:35 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:04 pm


How do you know Smith blew it? Rhodes was 1 on 1 with a below average NFL WR and got completely turned around. If there was a safety that was suppose to be over the top, it's something we might not ever know. But it's not like Rhodes sat in zone and nobody was there behind him. He was 1 on 1 and didnt have a shot staying with his WR. You were on islands with top WRs for how many years now?? Now you cant be on an island with a below average WR? If that's the case, then yes, you should be cut.
Rhodes isn't blameless on that play, but it was clear he thought he had help over the middle. Could be he was wrong and Smith wasn't supposed to be in position to defend the deep ball.
Sounds like a lot of coulda, woulda, shoulda. No facts. Supposedly every time he gets burnt he "thinks he should have had help". Or milks an injury. It's non- stop and obvious that he's embarrassed and is trying to put the blame on someone else. How often during his career did you see him act like this? Hardly ever. That isnt the normal Rhodes. This is now the "point the finger so it doesnt look like I suck" Rhodes.

Like I've said before, not saying Smith is blameless but there isnt anyone thats made less mistakes over his Vikings career than Smith. And this is Rhodes going after him for like the 3rd time now in the last year? I side with Smith any day over Rhodes. I dont think there is a smarter player on defense than Smith. Bottom line is, Rhodes cant be trusted against any WR at this point. Whether he's a #1 or #5. He cant be trusted and is good for getting burnt at least once a game at this point.
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Re: Vikings/Saints Post-Game

Post by VikingLord » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:28 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:55 am
That being said, he actually had a reason to be upset about the long pass from Hill. Smith absolutely blew that coverage, but to most fans it looks like Rhodes screwed up.
I saw no evidence that Rhodes released the WR inside on that play. The WR got him to turn his hips downfield and then bolted inside away and deep. Rhodes took one too many additional steps before he realized where the receiver went. He literally almost got his hand on the ball despite that. If the throw were more timely and better it would have been a walk in TD for the Saints, as it was the lateness of the throw and the placement that allowed Rhodes to even have a chance, but that was the only time in the game where anything like that happened that I saw. For the most part Rhodes played very well against both the pass and the run.

As for Harrison Smith, it's hard to know what his assignment was on that play. Having watched Smith play now for a few years, he's a bit of a gambler, so it's possible it was his responsibility to stay deeper and get back to defend against that pass, but it's equally possible he had zone middle on that play and still was able to track deep to almost break it up.

I personally think Rhodes had man and just got turned around as the WR was able to break inside and lose almost no speed in the process. It was a great move and the timing was perfect. Rhodes probably could have covered it better, maybe by flipping his hips earlier before the receiver got up to him, but it went the way it went. Sometimes you just have to tip your hat to the other team for a well-executed play.
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Re: Vikings/Saints Post-Game

Post by CharVike » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:40 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:04 am
CharVike wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:01 am

I'll make it simple. Catch a short pass and take it to the house. Do something big. Turn the game. I'm not creating a narrative, We are winning and guys are playing like hell and he's having an issue with something. We will never know the issue. I've watch this a long time and he looked POed. Maybe that's how people act when they are happy and I'm wrong. I've seen happy players and that's a new one. Maybe he's looking to create a brand. It's simple turn the game. Put it out of reach. If he did that do you think he would act like he did during that game. I doubt it. We he scored on the miracle he didn't act like that.
Watch Dalvin Cook's interview after the game. They asked him about Diggs getting frustrated and he laughed and said "That's just Diggs". And then went into explaining that it's just the fight and competitor in him. I agree that I dont like to see it. It's a bad look regardless and I know the media and announcers are just praying that it's because of Cousins so they have a story. However, Diggs said it had nothing to do with any of his teammates. He said he was getting frustrated due to the coverage he was drawing (getting doubled, blanketed with a safety, etc.). Nobody seems concerned about it at all.

The one I am concerned with is Rhodes. Diggs' tantrums are a bad look but 90% of the time it ends up being nothing. With Rhodes, it's a completely different story. EVERY time he gets burned, he does one of two things. Either acts out an injury or argues with a teammate. Specifically Harrison Smith. Which I'm sorry but Smith is one guy you should NOT be blaming. Not saying he doesnt make mistakes but over the years, there hasnt been a Viking that has made less mistakes than Smith. I think Rhodes' problem is that he's embarrassed and trying to save his old reputation. He knows he's been getting abused and is doing everything in his power to make it look like it's not his fault (milking injuries or pointing the finger). Can anyone name a play where Rhodes flat out got burned and just moved on to the next play? I sure cant. THAT's a problem. I'm not worried about Diggs because Diggs still performs and performs at a high level. Rhodes isnt getting any better. His career is on a HARD downhill slope right now and at this rate, he's never going to be back to 2017 form. He's trying to save any bit of juice he has left and it's not working and painting a bad picture.
Diggs is looking for attention. Make a play and get attention. If Diggs is getting all the secondary attention then Adam should be tearing it up. Basically he's knocking him. Nobody knows the details and nobody ever will. To me it didn't look good and IMO this isn't another Moss type of player he isn't close to that. He's been hurt alot and it's not like we go to crap without him. I'd rather a healthy Cook than him if there was a choice. He's a me me guy. This is Rhodes last year here unless he takes a huge CAP hit savings. Even with that is he worth it. He can't cover and teams go after him. That's not my call.
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Re: Vikings/Saints Post-Game

Post by VikingLord » Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:35 pm

CharVike wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:40 pm
Diggs is looking for attention. Make a play and get attention.
Is it possible Diggs is just an emotional player who got frustrated for reasons that had nothing to do with his teammates and more to do with what the Saints were doing to take him away?

I know the cameras are always watching the sidelines for something interesting. It makes for good TV, I suppose, but there is no way to tell why Diggs was acting just by that brief camera shot.
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Re: Vikings/Saints Post-Game

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:44 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:35 pm
CharVike wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:40 pm
Diggs is looking for attention. Make a play and get attention.
Is it possible Diggs is just an emotional player who got frustrated for reasons that had nothing to do with his teammates and more to do with what the Saints were doing to take him away?

I know the cameras are always watching the sidelines for something interesting. It makes for good TV, I suppose, but there is no way to tell why Diggs was acting just by that brief camera shot.
Reading between the lines he was frustrated with the Saints holding him and the Refs not calling it. "Upset with the how the Saints were covering him" means they were grabbing him and no flags were being thrown, imo.

I have seen Rodgers and Brady lose their sh*t on the sidelines over less. No one calls them out when they do it.
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Re: Vikings/Saints Post-Game

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:14 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:35 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:04 pm


How do you know Smith blew it? Rhodes was 1 on 1 with a below average NFL WR and got completely turned around. If there was a safety that was suppose to be over the top, it's something we might not ever know. But it's not like Rhodes sat in zone and nobody was there behind him. He was 1 on 1 and didnt have a shot staying with his WR. You were on islands with top WRs for how many years now?? Now you cant be on an island with a below average WR? If that's the case, then yes, you should be cut.
Rhodes isn't blameless on that play, but it was clear he thought he had help over the middle. Could be he was wrong and Smith wasn't supposed to be in position to defend the deep ball.
Yeah, you can see on the replay from behind the offense ... Rhodes had inside leverage -- positioned to force the receiver outside the numbers -- and he didn't flip his hips on the receiver's second move. That tells me he expected help middle deep. If' he'd been in man coverage, he would have shadowed the receiver. Once he saw there was no one in the middle deep, he flipped and sprinted toward the receiver, who was already 5 yards past him. Say what you want about Rhodes, but there's no way he gets beat by 5 yards if he's in man coverage.

Also, if you look closely just before the snap, Smith and Rhodes are trying to communicate something to each other, and they're pretty animated about it. At the time, I suspected they weren't on the same page. I wouldn't be surprised if it had something to do with them seeing Taysom Hill at QB and being worried about him running with the football. Sure enough, they got burned. Probably didn't really expect him to throw deep.
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Re: Vikings/Saints Post-Game

Post by MikethePurple » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:59 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:35 pm
CharVike wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:40 pm
Diggs is looking for attention. Make a play and get attention.
Is it possible Diggs is just an emotional player who got frustrated for reasons that had nothing to do with his teammates and more to do with what the Saints were doing to take him away?

I know the cameras are always watching the sidelines for something interesting. It makes for good TV, I suppose, but there is no way to tell why Diggs was acting just by that brief camera shot.
I agree that it's hard for us to tell and really his frustration didn't seem to be pointed at his teammates at all. Dalvin addressed it and so did Diggs after the game, no one on the team seemed to think it was a big deal. Seems to have been a media story more than anything.

There was a good discussion about this incident and the larger scope of the conversation by Coller and Zulgad on one of the shows yesterday. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmRURXx_iRo&t=10s

I thought their points on it were pretty good. Mainly Coller's because he kept referencing things that he observes (rather than pure speculation from national media narratives) being someone who closely follows the team, the players, their relationships, and gets to talk to them about all of the above. I think their main point of the fact that Diggs hasn't really acted selfishly in terms of saying "I'm not getting mine" and has gotten more upset when he is not liking what the offense is doing schematically or when he feels that he can contribute (which he can) but isn't for whatever reason (being double covered, Cousins missing him, or a number of other reasons that very well could be legitimate) or simple frustration. How many times have we seen Brady toss a tablet or get in his receivers' faces and people describe him as "fiery?"

I think people can disagree on whether they feel it's productive but I'd have to agree with their points that he is more of the emotional leader of the offense in terms of that physical expression of emotion. The other guys on the offense don't seem to have that personality which is fine if that is not who they are. There haven't been any sort of reports of him sewing dischord among his teammates and Coller discusses that Diggs was super happy for Thielen's day and that they came out with a win. He also reiterated the fact of how close the two receivers are. I do think having that spark on the sidelines can have its benefits....
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Re: Vikings/Saints Post-Game

Post by CharVike » Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:30 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:44 pm
VikingLord wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:35 pm


Is it possible Diggs is just an emotional player who got frustrated for reasons that had nothing to do with his teammates and more to do with what the Saints were doing to take him away?

I know the cameras are always watching the sidelines for something interesting. It makes for good TV, I suppose, but there is no way to tell why Diggs was acting just by that brief camera shot.
Reading between the lines he was frustrated with the Saints holding him and the Refs not calling it. "Upset with the how the Saints were covering him" means they were grabbing him and no flags were being thrown, imo.

I have seen Rodgers and Brady lose their sh*t on the sidelines over less. No one calls them out when they do it.
You two bring up some good points. It looked like the refs were letting pass interference go all day. Rudy had one on him early. I liked the way the game was called. In a way the rules make it almost impossible to get interference right. I have no idea what it is anymore. Can you even jam a wr anymore? Seems to me put 2 CBs on a WR and don't let him get out. Keep hitting back and forth. There will be no routes run. Never a pass attempt. To me not calling it all the time makes a better game. I hope the refs call the same way this week. On the winning TD int could have been called. I'm sure every Saint fan felt it was int.
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Re: Vikings/Saints Post-Game

Post by CharVike » Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:51 am

CharVike wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:30 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:44 pm


Reading between the lines he was frustrated with the Saints holding him and the Refs not calling it. "Upset with the how the Saints were covering him" means they were grabbing him and no flags were being thrown, imo.

I have seen Rodgers and Brady lose their sh*t on the sidelines over less. No one calls them out when they do it.
You two bring up some good points. It looked like the refs were letting pass interference go all day. Rudy had one on him early. I liked the way the game was called. In a way the rules make it almost impossible to get interference right. I have no idea what it is anymore. Can you even jam a wr anymore? Seems to me put 2 CBs on a WR and don't let him get out. Keep hitting back and forth. There will be no routes run. Never a pass attempt. To me not calling it all the time makes a better game. I hope the refs call the same way this week. On the winning TD int could have been called. I'm sure every Saint fan felt it was int.
As for Diggs I don't know exactly what happened nobody does. I don't like that emotional BS. Especially from a guy that the average fan don't even knows he plays. Never heard of him. I want him to make a play. Do something to win the game. In other words help out. .
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Re: Vikings/Saints Post-Game

Post by cstelter » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:57 am

CharVike wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:51 am
As for Diggs I don't know exactly what happened nobody does. I don't like that emotional BS. Especially from a guy that the average fan don't even knows he plays. Never heard of him. I want him to make a play. Do something to win the game. In other words help out. .
I tend to take ones actions in the kindest possible way unless proven otherwise. For now I'll assume his issue was with the refs and he disguised his reasoning to avoid penalty by putting it on "how he was being defended". I could certainly appreciate that kind of response if he felt he was continually being held without flag leading to his being unable to get open enough for Kirk to throw it at him.
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