Vikings Roster Review

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StumpHunter
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:51 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:43 pm
Dames wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:38 am

What's taking you so long? :confused:

Just kidding, I know you put a lot of work into it! :lol:
:lol: :lol: Dude, this cap situation is killing my brain. I've gotten through most of it so far. Nearing the end of free agency with some 1 year deals and then onto the draft. Not too much longer I hope
Can I make a quick suggestion: Don't extend Cousins as part of your off season mock. He is too divisive a topic, and if you want to free up cap, it can be done just as easily by converting existing contracts into signing bonus and moving it to 2021 and beyond.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:42 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:51 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:43 pm


:lol: :lol: Dude, this cap situation is killing my brain. I've gotten through most of it so far. Nearing the end of free agency with some 1 year deals and then onto the draft. Not too much longer I hope
Can I make a quick suggestion: Don't extend Cousins as part of your off season mock. He is too divisive a topic, and if you want to free up cap, it can be done just as easily by converting existing contracts into signing bonus and moving it to 2021 and beyond.
Well I’m trying to move what I can around cap wise but by extending cousins I think we can save roughly $7 million there. And from what I calculated and the moves I had us make, it gives us roughly $30 million in cap space opposed to $23 million. That’s another decent contract we can hand out if we make that move. I already have cousins extended 2 years in what I wrote up. Which essentially just gives him another year with us. And no not because I think he’s some all world QB, it’s simply because I don’t think we draft one this year early on anyways unless something crazy falls our way. I’ve mentioned in the mock planning on drafting a QB in 2021. I’d rather have one learn under cousins anyways than just throwing him into a fire. Plus I just think we have too many holes to fill this offseason (LT, LG, #3 WR, DT x2, possible DE, CBs x100, etc). I’d rather fill those holes now than use a first round pick on a QB. And use that pick in 2021 on a QB. Because if there is going to be a drop off it could be this year due to aging veterans, zims D going backwards, the loss of coaches, etc. So we could be in a better position in 2021 to draft one than this year. Or they could surprise us who knows to be honest.

I mean just ignore the cousins end of it. It’s really nothing but a cap move since I’m not having us draft his eventual replacement in this year. The good stuff is all the free agents and draft picks. Plus if Zim and spielman get fired after this year, I’d rather have the new regime draft our QB of the future anyways.

But I have restructured and cut quite a few to make this work. I’m going to hit the wrong side of the reality line if I restructure anymore. I already have Harrison smith restructuring which could be a stretch. I will say it’s the most difficult mock offseason I’ve ever done and I’ve been doing them since roughly 2010 when I belonged to footballs future message board
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:35 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:42 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:51 pm


Can I make a quick suggestion: Don't extend Cousins as part of your off season mock. He is too divisive a topic, and if you want to free up cap, it can be done just as easily by converting existing contracts into signing bonus and moving it to 2021 and beyond.
Well I’m trying to move what I can around cap wise but by extending cousins I think we can save roughly $7 million there. And from what I calculated and the moves I had us make, it gives us roughly $30 million in cap space opposed to $23 million. That’s another decent contract we can hand out if we make that move. I already have cousins extended 2 years in what I wrote up. Which essentially just gives him another year with us. And no not because I think he’s some all world QB, it’s simply because I don’t think we draft one this year early on anyways unless something crazy falls our way. I’ve mentioned in the mock planning on drafting a QB in 2021. I’d rather have one learn under cousins anyways than just throwing him into a fire. Plus I just think we have too many holes to fill this offseason (LT, LG, #3 WR, DT x2, possible DE, CBs x100, etc). I’d rather fill those holes now than use a first round pick on a QB. And use that pick in 2021 on a QB. Because if there is going to be a drop off it could be this year due to aging veterans, zims D going backwards, the loss of coaches, etc. So we could be in a better position in 2021 to draft one than this year. Or they could surprise us who knows to be honest.

I mean just ignore the cousins end of it. It’s really nothing but a cap move since I’m not having us draft his eventual replacement in this year. The good stuff is all the free agents and draft picks. Plus if Zim and spielman get fired after this year, I’d rather have the new regime draft our QB of the future anyways.

But I have restructured and cut quite a few to make this work. I’m going to hit the wrong side of the reality line if I restructure anymore. I already have Harrison smith restructuring which could be a stretch. I will say it’s the most difficult mock offseason I’ve ever done and I’ve been doing them since roughly 2010 when I belonged to footballs future message board
I get it, and I personally won't comment on it because it won't have an immediate impact on the team. I just worry it might steer the conversation in the wrong direction.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:02 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:35 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:42 pm


Well I’m trying to move what I can around cap wise but by extending cousins I think we can save roughly $7 million there. And from what I calculated and the moves I had us make, it gives us roughly $30 million in cap space opposed to $23 million. That’s another decent contract we can hand out if we make that move. I already have cousins extended 2 years in what I wrote up. Which essentially just gives him another year with us. And no not because I think he’s some all world QB, it’s simply because I don’t think we draft one this year early on anyways unless something crazy falls our way. I’ve mentioned in the mock planning on drafting a QB in 2021. I’d rather have one learn under cousins anyways than just throwing him into a fire. Plus I just think we have too many holes to fill this offseason (LT, LG, #3 WR, DT x2, possible DE, CBs x100, etc). I’d rather fill those holes now than use a first round pick on a QB. And use that pick in 2021 on a QB. Because if there is going to be a drop off it could be this year due to aging veterans, zims D going backwards, the loss of coaches, etc. So we could be in a better position in 2021 to draft one than this year. Or they could surprise us who knows to be honest.

I mean just ignore the cousins end of it. It’s really nothing but a cap move since I’m not having us draft his eventual replacement in this year. The good stuff is all the free agents and draft picks. Plus if Zim and spielman get fired after this year, I’d rather have the new regime draft our QB of the future anyways.

But I have restructured and cut quite a few to make this work. I’m going to hit the wrong side of the reality line if I restructure anymore. I already have Harrison smith restructuring which could be a stretch. I will say it’s the most difficult mock offseason I’ve ever done and I’ve been doing them since roughly 2010 when I belonged to footballs future message board
I get it, and I personally won't comment on it because it won't have an immediate impact on the team. I just worry it might steer the conversation in the wrong direction.
I hear ya. I contemplated doing it because of that as well. To be honest, I've changed my mind so many times on it already. I've had us not extending Cousins to extending him. I've had us restructuring Rhodes and changed to cutting him, same with Joseph and Reiff. Had us cutting Griff to restructuring him. I have us keeping Mac over Waynes but then looking at the FA CB class, the class is LOADED with slot CBs and is much weaker when it comes to outside CBs so that has me thinking now. I've been back and forth with outside free agents and who we can afford, who we fits the bill, etc. Like I said, it's by far the toughest one I've ever done. And it will change multiple times as the offseason progresses. Usually I do a couple leading up to the draft.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:28 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:02 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:35 am

I get it, and I personally won't comment on it because it won't have an immediate impact on the team. I just worry it might steer the conversation in the wrong direction.
I hear ya. I contemplated doing it because of that as well. To be honest, I've changed my mind so many times on it already. I've had us not extending Cousins to extending him. I've had us restructuring Rhodes and changed to cutting him, same with Joseph and Reiff. Had us cutting Griff to restructuring him. I have us keeping Mac over Waynes but then looking at the FA CB class, the class is LOADED with slot CBs and is much weaker when it comes to outside CBs so that has me thinking now. I've been back and forth with outside free agents and who we can afford, who we fits the bill, etc. Like I said, it's by far the toughest one I've ever done. And it will change multiple times as the offseason progresses. Usually I do a couple leading up to the draft.
I have been down on Waynes as I think he will be too expensive, but the more I think about it, if we don't sign him AND Mack next season, this secondary is going to be horrible. Mack has been decent when playing outside and wants to move there, and I think Hughes might have more success playing the slot than he did outside.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:51 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:28 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:02 am


I hear ya. I contemplated doing it because of that as well. To be honest, I've changed my mind so many times on it already. I've had us not extending Cousins to extending him. I've had us restructuring Rhodes and changed to cutting him, same with Joseph and Reiff. Had us cutting Griff to restructuring him. I have us keeping Mac over Waynes but then looking at the FA CB class, the class is LOADED with slot CBs and is much weaker when it comes to outside CBs so that has me thinking now. I've been back and forth with outside free agents and who we can afford, who we fits the bill, etc. Like I said, it's by far the toughest one I've ever done. And it will change multiple times as the offseason progresses. Usually I do a couple leading up to the draft.
I have been down on Waynes as I think he will be too expensive, but the more I think about it, if we don't sign him AND Mack next season, this secondary is going to be horrible. Mack has been decent when playing outside and wants to move there, and I think Hughes might have more success playing the slot than he did outside.
In regards to the secondary, yes and no. If we dont sign either of the two it sounds like it would be terrible but it's also that much more cap we would have. And if we do something along the lines of restructuring and cutting guys to free up space like I'm currently doing in my mock, it would be more than fixable.

If it was me and that exact situation happened, I would go out and sign Byron Jones, sign Darqueze Dennard or PJ Williams for the nickel role. Outside CBs would be Jones and Hughes, nickel would be Dennard or Williams, we have Holton Hill and then I would draft another CB somewhere between rounds 2-3. At least by the sounds of it, that's a much better secondary than we had this year.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:27 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:51 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:28 am


I have been down on Waynes as I think he will be too expensive, but the more I think about it, if we don't sign him AND Mack next season, this secondary is going to be horrible. Mack has been decent when playing outside and wants to move there, and I think Hughes might have more success playing the slot than he did outside.
In regards to the secondary, yes and no. If we dont sign either of the two it sounds like it would be terrible but it's also that much more cap we would have. And if we do something along the lines of restructuring and cutting guys to free up space like I'm currently doing in my mock, it would be more than fixable.

If it was me and that exact situation happened, I would go out and sign Byron Jones, sign Darqueze Dennard or PJ Williams for the nickel role. Outside CBs would be Jones and Hughes, nickel would be Dennard or Williams, we have Holton Hill and then I would draft another CB somewhere between rounds 2-3. At least by the sounds of it, that's a much better secondary than we had this year.
I think Jones or Dennard make the secondary better, but Jones is going to cost a ton while Dennard probably doesn't hit free agency and re-signs with the Bungles.


No on Williams:

Williams is one of the most fundamental tacklers in the New Orleans secondary and did play well when moved to safety because of injuries at the position late in the season. Opposing quarterbacks feast on him when in man coverage however, and he seems unlikely to return in a cornerback role.
Diggs would probably love to go against him in camp though.

A guy I would like the Vikings to look at is Aquib Talib. You obviously can't bank on him being a starter with his age and injury history, but he could be Zimmer's next Terrance Newman, and might be had for very little cap and very little risk.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by halfgiz » Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:07 pm

I'm not sure we should be counting on Hughes for next year yet.
It sounds as if Mac and Kearse and Harris wants pay days.
Waynes I'm not in love with his coverage skills...But he is one of the best tacklers on the team.
I have no idea how the DB's will be that we brought in on future deals.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:55 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:27 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:51 am


In regards to the secondary, yes and no. If we dont sign either of the two it sounds like it would be terrible but it's also that much more cap we would have. And if we do something along the lines of restructuring and cutting guys to free up space like I'm currently doing in my mock, it would be more than fixable.

If it was me and that exact situation happened, I would go out and sign Byron Jones, sign Darqueze Dennard or PJ Williams for the nickel role. Outside CBs would be Jones and Hughes, nickel would be Dennard or Williams, we have Holton Hill and then I would draft another CB somewhere between rounds 2-3. At least by the sounds of it, that's a much better secondary than we had this year.
I think Jones or Dennard make the secondary better, but Jones is going to cost a ton while Dennard probably doesn't hit free agency and re-signs with the Bungles.


No on Williams:

Williams is one of the most fundamental tacklers in the New Orleans secondary and did play well when moved to safety because of injuries at the position late in the season. Opposing quarterbacks feast on him when in man coverage however, and he seems unlikely to return in a cornerback role.
Diggs would probably love to go against him in camp though.

A guy I would like the Vikings to look at is Aquib Talib. You obviously can't bank on him being a starter with his age and injury history, but he could be Zimmer's next Terrance Newman, and might be had for very little cap and very little risk.
Williams wasnt the one that missed the tackle on Diggs if that's what you're referring to. That was Marcus Williams. I actually looked into Talib too but he also has that attitude to him where he would continue to ask for big money even though he's drastically declined. Where Newman would practically play for peanuts and popcorn just to work as a mentor.

I will say, if Mac did walk, I would be bummed but not worried. This free agent slot CB class is loaded to the max. I'm more concerned with outside CB. I dont trust Hughes out there and if Waynes and Rhodes are gone, that's why I think we need to buck up and sign someone like Jones. Then draft you're other outside guy. That puts Jones at one outside spot and a competition between Hughes, Hill and the rookie for the other outside spot.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by fiestavike » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:29 pm

Mothman wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:05 pm


My concern with Barr or Odenigbo as starting RDEs would be their ability to set the edge against the run.
That's one thing I like about Stephen Weatherly. He defends the edge against the run quite well, and has tremendous length.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by CharVike » Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:38 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:42 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:51 pm


Can I make a quick suggestion: Don't extend Cousins as part of your off season mock. He is too divisive a topic, and if you want to free up cap, it can be done just as easily by converting existing contracts into signing bonus and moving it to 2021 and beyond.
Well I’m trying to move what I can around cap wise but by extending cousins I think we can save roughly $7 million there. And from what I calculated and the moves I had us make, it gives us roughly $30 million in cap space opposed to $23 million. That’s another decent contract we can hand out if we make that move. I already have cousins extended 2 years in what I wrote up. Which essentially just gives him another year with us. And no not because I think he’s some all world QB, it’s simply because I don’t think we draft one this year early on anyways unless something crazy falls our way. I’ve mentioned in the mock planning on drafting a QB in 2021. I’d rather have one learn under cousins anyways than just throwing him into a fire. Plus I just think we have too many holes to fill this offseason (LT, LG, #3 WR, DT x2, possible DE, CBs x100, etc). I’d rather fill those holes now than use a first round pick on a QB. And use that pick in 2021 on a QB. Because if there is going to be a drop off it could be this year due to aging veterans, zims D going backwards, the loss of coaches, etc. So we could be in a better position in 2021 to draft one than this year. Or they could surprise us who knows to be honest.

I mean just ignore the cousins end of it. It’s really nothing but a cap move since I’m not having us draft his eventual replacement in this year. The good stuff is all the free agents and draft picks. Plus if Zim and spielman get fired after this year, I’d rather have the new regime draft our QB of the future anyways.

But I have restructured and cut quite a few to make this work. I’m going to hit the wrong side of the reality line if I restructure anymore. I already have Harrison smith restructuring which could be a stretch. I will say it’s the most difficult mock offseason I’ve ever done and I’ve been doing them since roughly 2010 when I belonged to footballs future message board
I think it's a good thing you are going to do this and I look forward to it. You have a passion for it and you have great knowledge. Unfortunately for us it looks like Zim has taken this squad as far as it can go. We are a very good team but not enough to head to the top. This new HC for the Pack has changed that team overnight. He had a tremendous advantage with the fact he already had an elite QB in place. Since Zim's been here we've been trying to fix it. We are in better shape than most. But our D is gone. This current group of players needs to be broken up. That could be a good thing. I enjoy getting new guys in there and that's life in the NFL.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:00 pm

CharVike wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:38 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:42 pm


Well I’m trying to move what I can around cap wise but by extending cousins I think we can save roughly $7 million there. And from what I calculated and the moves I had us make, it gives us roughly $30 million in cap space opposed to $23 million. That’s another decent contract we can hand out if we make that move. I already have cousins extended 2 years in what I wrote up. Which essentially just gives him another year with us. And no not because I think he’s some all world QB, it’s simply because I don’t think we draft one this year early on anyways unless something crazy falls our way. I’ve mentioned in the mock planning on drafting a QB in 2021. I’d rather have one learn under cousins anyways than just throwing him into a fire. Plus I just think we have too many holes to fill this offseason (LT, LG, #3 WR, DT x2, possible DE, CBs x100, etc). I’d rather fill those holes now than use a first round pick on a QB. And use that pick in 2021 on a QB. Because if there is going to be a drop off it could be this year due to aging veterans, zims D going backwards, the loss of coaches, etc. So we could be in a better position in 2021 to draft one than this year. Or they could surprise us who knows to be honest.

I mean just ignore the cousins end of it. It’s really nothing but a cap move since I’m not having us draft his eventual replacement in this year. The good stuff is all the free agents and draft picks. Plus if Zim and spielman get fired after this year, I’d rather have the new regime draft our QB of the future anyways.

But I have restructured and cut quite a few to make this work. I’m going to hit the wrong side of the reality line if I restructure anymore. I already have Harrison smith restructuring which could be a stretch. I will say it’s the most difficult mock offseason I’ve ever done and I’ve been doing them since roughly 2010 when I belonged to footballs future message board
I think it's a good thing you are going to do this and I look forward to it. You have a passion for it and you have great knowledge. Unfortunately for us it looks like Zim has taken this squad as far as it can go. We are a very good team but not enough to head to the top. This new HC for the Pack has changed that team overnight. He had a tremendous advantage with the fact he already had an elite QB in place. Since Zim's been here we've been trying to fix it. We are in better shape than most. But our D is gone. This current group of players needs to be broken up. That could be a good thing. I enjoy getting new guys in there and that's life in the NFL.
Thanks CV I appreciate it. Almost done, I'm onto the final step now which is the draft.
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